@n0ne Yet another reason I dont like MAC Their all about overpriced aesthetics and quite frankly, I'm not buying into their bullshit business design. If I'm paying top USAD, CNY, AUS $ then I want TOP Product! Stop being so fuckin greedy Apple! This is why your #2 and always will be!
@n0ne i know!!!! tooo expsensive now!!!! why can't they make the price the same. i was considering to get a mac with updated hardware cause the rumours... now i have to find $300 more >.
@abedinthehouse I understand Macs look expensive when you only look at the hard drive and processor specs. But look at the fact that they have an amazing multitouch glass trackpad, an led-backlit display, firewire 800, motion sensors that park the hard drive when it senses a fall to prevent damage to data, ambient light sensors that autodim the screen and turn on your backlit keyboard, magsafe power adapter that safely pops out of your computer when someone trips over your power cord as to not pull down the entire computer, and a super solid aluminum unibody design. I always hear people saying you can get the same exact computer for half the price but you really can't. They're expensive, but it's really not for no reason.
@n0ne the international prices for Apple stores are always inflated, they are not just converted in the national currency. So this doesnt tell us anything
@hulahoophugs The new Vaio Z has Intel i7-620M, 8 gigs of RAM, Quad SSD in Raid (or Dual SSD with Bluray drive), nVidia 330M with CUDA, 13.1" 1080p LED with 96% Adobe RGB coverage, HDMI out, it's partially made from carbon fiber and machined aluminium, so it weighs at 1.4kg. I think this is faster than current generation of Mac Pro, let alone a laptop.
1. multitouch glass trackpad - that is difficult to use, most laptops have multi-touch pads now 2. an led-backlit display - Like every other laptop on the market 3. firewire 800 - Which no-one uses anymore 4. motion sensors that park the hard drive when it senses a fall to prevent damage to data - HDD tech not Apple tech, this is on every business class laptop available and Thinkpads had it first. 5. ambient light sensors that autodim the screen and turn on your backlit keyboard - Like every Thinkpad and VAIO. 6. magsafe power adapter that safely pops out of your computer when someone trips over your power cord as to not pull down the entire computer - Design flawed plug with tiny springs that melt (I'm on my 3rd) they are 3x the price of normal laptop power adaptors. 7.and a super solid aluminum unibody design - this is really the only thing still going for macbooks but it scratches easy and makes a 13" MBP pretty heavy. All in all like most Apple salesmen you don't realise that most of the "features" you are selling (or paying through the nose for) are available on most laptops and come from the component manufacturer and not Apple.
@hulahoophugs Well, some people don't want any of that. I don't want or need any of those features but if I want a Mac I HAVE to pay for them. That's the problem I have with Apple, lack of options. I would rather have something with better specs than get the features you mentioned, but there are people who feel those are important and would pay for them. Now, if Apple sold Macbooks without those features for a lower price, do you think there would be many people that would pay a premium to get them? I think people are more willing to pay the extra cash for Macs not because of what you mentioned, but for peace of mind. The perception that Macs are more reliable and have a lot less problems than Windows PCs is huge (I'm not here to debate that and I don't want to start a flame war) and that alone is worth it because people just want a computer that's gonna do what they need when they want and don't have the time, knowledge or patience to fix problems if and when they come up.
@hulahoophugs totally agree. Take my 27" iMac. The display alone is worth at least 1400 bucks... try finding a high quality 27" monitor that's LED backlit for much less than that. Add in a quad-core i7, 8 gigs of ram and the high quality casing and materials and you're really not far off on price from what you can try to buy elsewhere.
If they aren't the same price as the current generation then its a rip-off. Considering that there are at least two PC laptops on the retail shelf for less than 1500 bucks with 1080p screens, 8gb of ram and rocking video cards and nearly 10 hour batteries with i7 processors that are twice the speed of the current generation macbooks.
6. Expensive? Yes. Awesome? Yes. MagSafe adapters melting aren't a common issue.
Uh... Yes the melting magsafe power connector is a very common issue. It happened with my first-gen macbook, which, for a variety of hardware issues, will be the last mac I'll ever purchase.
@meboy Really? The Vaio Z STARTS at $1,900...the MBP, while slightly lesser specced, starts at $1,200...did you happen to steal that Sony? That could explain the price discrepancy
@fourthletter You really struggle to use the glass trackpad? For me it's easier than a mouse, or my wacom tablets. Show me a laptop with a better trackpad, and I will genuinely consider buying it.
@eli "try finding a high quality 27" monitor that's LED backlit for much less than that."
LOL like my 32" LG LH3240 TV which is LED backlit, 1080p, 2ms response, and is strictly used as my PC monitor directly connected via HDMI. For $600 USAD. Another case of Apple hosing their customers, who fail to realize they're being hosed.
My Core i7 thinkpad has all of these things: multitouch trackpad led-backlit display firewire 800 motion sensors that park the hard drive ambient light sensors that autodim the screen
Has equivalents to these: backlit keyboard -> ThinkLight aluminum unibody design -> Carbon-fiber roll cage AppleCare -> 3year accidental damage protection (for same $ or cheaper) Mini DisplayPort -> Regular DisplayPort
Is lacking this: magsafe power adapter (which is admittedly awesome)
But has these which the Macbooks are missing: Removable battery eSata powered usb (for charging things when device is off but plugged in) Matte screen instead of glossy screen (personal pref, I know)
Oh, and I got all that for $1100. So, not half price, but still $700 cheaper. That leaves Apple's aesthetics and OSX as the only things left to make up the difference.
And for the price of a 17" macbook pro, you can get a thinkpad with a built-in secondary LCD and wacom digitizer. Seriously!
@hulahoophugs This is what most people forget when they complain about Mac prices. The only mainstream PC manufacturer that comes close to Apple is Sony, and you pay a premium for their machines too. All the little "extras" that Apple machines have add up to a better computing experience in my opinion.
@hulahoophugs People who say that Apple are too over-priced are clearly missing the point. It is true that you can buy PCs for a fraction of the price of a Mac, but those machines are barely usable in real-word situations. On paper, they are fine, but as soon as you start using Internet Explorer and MS office, you soon realize why it's important to buy a more robust machine.
The big draw to the Windows/PC set up is usually down to how many USB ports it has, how large the hard disk is, how much memory it has, which completely misses the point over why not to buy a Mac.
@hulahoophugs What's so special about the magsafe connectors? If someone tripped up on my cord it would come out too instead of dragging my laptop with it. Maybe if it was a netbook for something I could see the use...
@n0ne Drop that price hike on a clueless Aborigine who's returning from his walkabout with the wallabies & dingos and you might get a spear through the chest. Lol.
@awalk It sure is. I have always had to use a mouse with my HP laptops and now I wouldnt even think of it. The touchpad is my fav part of the Macbook Pro line
@fourthletter Speak for yourself. If you have used the trackpad on a PC then I can see your frusteration. The Macbook Pros track pad sets its self apart from the trash that is PC notbooks
You really don't do much comparative shopping, do you? I spec'ed your iMac for about $2,400 @ Apple. Do you realize what you can get from HP or Toshiba with that? Or what a PC builder can build with that? There are a lot of amazing monitors (25"-30") out there for well less than $1400. CNET's best reviewed monitor of the year (Dell UltraSharp U2711) can be had for under $1,000. I am really glad I didn't fall for Apple. My Macbook woke me up to how much of a rip-off they are.
@hulahoophugs @hulahoophugs My Dell E6400 has most of that except the magsafe ,glass trackpad and unibody construction, not that it cares me enough not to have that since it has survived an accidental drop from about 4 feet and did not even scratch.
It also came with a docking station with dual DVI (that truly makes it a desktop replacement) and a very nice suitcase all cost about 1900 USD.
Not saying all fancy stuff on Apple products are worthless but when it comes to value, Dell and PC in general triumphs
Mac pricing against the PC's will always create a sore point. A true test of value between the two is to have one of the big name PC hardware vendors like Dell or Sony make a PC with the same spec, build (including materials) as a Mac and also create and maintain their own OS to run on their hardware. I belive the PC price would increase significantly.
Remember it's Microsoft that has to do the heavy lifting with Windows not the hardware vendors who just pay for a licence.
Apple fanboys aren't up to date with anything but Apple. If Apple touts something, they think only Apple has it. It's the effect of Apple's excellent marketing overall. Apple hypes everything through so many channels and achieve that huge mind share. Apple is 60% marketing, 40% actual innovation and product differentiation.
@fourthletter I get to see hundreds of laptops a day at school and have yet to see anyone (besides the mac owners) who have a LT with a touchpad, as for that matter I rarely see ones that have the light sensors in them. In all the LT's I have used I can honestly say I have never once used a trackpad that feels good to use or is comfortable, most trackpad are half the size or even small than the MBP glass trackpad. This is one of the main reason I have never owned a PC laptop. I will admit the MBP glass pad was a little weird at first but once you use it everything else pretty much sucks. I will agree that Macs are expensive and a little over priced but if you get a Vaio or thinkpad you pay almost the same amount, hhmmm seams there is a trend of getting what you pay for here. I will say you can get many LT's for half the price of a MBP and they have twice the memory or hard drive, but you can sacrifice quality and have to buy another computer when it breaks and the warranty doesn't cover it,while Apple will replace my computer when it breaks because they have the best CS hands down. As for the weight of the unibody, I carry this thing around all day and forget it is in my backpack and throw my backpack around, I have yet to get a single scratch on this thing in six months and do not own a case for protector for it, give me a PC that can take that kind of abuse, plus I have held netbooks that weight more than my MBP.
@Ruthless Apple fanboys are ridiculous to the point like women with LV and Prada purses. You are basically a woman saying that 2k you spent buying a european purse is the best purchase ever, and all the purses aren't even carriable. Power to Apple's marketing department. People lose objectivity and can't think for themselves anymore after being brainwashed by Apple.
I'm pretty sure that computer costs 3000 dollars. If a lot of people here are suggesting that the price is too high for these current macs, why on earth would you speak of one that is double in price? just to tout its omgi7 processor?
@MONKEY Are you comparing Sonys ultra high end mobility machine with higher specs, SSD, lighter and a thinner machine to a 13 inch macbook pro? A sony S would be a better comparison for a Macbook pro 13
The Cobra Tag may help you win that losing battle, acting as a Bluetooth device that attaches to your key ring and connects to your phone, it gives you the opportunity to find the missing item if it's less than 30 feet away.
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@n0ne
Yet another reason I dont like MAC
Their all about overpriced aesthetics and quite frankly, I'm not buying into their bullshit business design. If I'm paying top USAD, CNY, AUS $ then I want TOP Product! Stop being so fuckin greedy Apple! This is why your #2 and always will be!
Nuff said!
@n0ne i know!!!! tooo expsensive now!!!! why can't they make the price the same. i was considering to get a mac with updated hardware cause the rumours... now i have to find $300 more >.
@oringal if you want OSX so bad, just buy a normal PC for much cheaper, better specs, and make a Hackitosh. You're better off.
@abedinthehouse I understand Macs look expensive when you only look at the hard drive and processor specs. But look at the fact that they have an amazing multitouch glass trackpad, an led-backlit display, firewire 800, motion sensors that park the hard drive when it senses a fall to prevent damage to data, ambient light sensors that autodim the screen and turn on your backlit keyboard, magsafe power adapter that safely pops out of your computer when someone trips over your power cord as to not pull down the entire computer, and a super solid aluminum unibody design. I always hear people saying you can get the same exact computer for half the price but you really can't. They're expensive, but it's really not for no reason.
@hulahoophugs
The touch pad is a thing from god.
@n0ne
the international prices for Apple stores are always inflated, they are not just converted in the national currency. So this doesnt tell us anything
@BogdanGC Cant wait to get shafted in the UK then :-/
@hulahoophugs
The new Vaio Z has Intel i7-620M, 8 gigs of RAM, Quad SSD in Raid (or Dual SSD with Bluray drive), nVidia 330M with CUDA, 13.1" 1080p LED with 96% Adobe RGB coverage, HDMI out, it's partially made from carbon fiber and machined aluminium, so it weighs at 1.4kg. I think this is faster than current generation of Mac Pro, let alone a laptop.
@hulahoophugs
1. multitouch glass trackpad - that is difficult to use, most laptops have multi-touch pads now
2. an led-backlit display - Like every other laptop on the market
3. firewire 800 - Which no-one uses anymore
4. motion sensors that park the hard drive when it senses a fall to prevent damage to data - HDD tech not Apple tech, this is on every business class laptop available and Thinkpads had it first.
5. ambient light sensors that autodim the screen and turn on your backlit keyboard - Like every Thinkpad and VAIO.
6. magsafe power adapter that safely pops out of your computer when someone trips over your power cord as to not pull down the entire computer - Design flawed plug with tiny springs that melt (I'm on my 3rd) they are 3x the price of normal laptop power adaptors.
7.and a super solid aluminum unibody design - this is really the only thing still going for macbooks but it scratches easy and makes a 13" MBP pretty heavy.
All in all like most Apple salesmen you don't realise that most of the "features" you are selling (or paying through the nose for) are available on most laptops and come from the component manufacturer and not Apple.
@hulahoophugs Well, some people don't want any of that. I don't want or need any of those features but if I want a Mac I HAVE to pay for them. That's the problem I have with Apple, lack of options. I would rather have something with better specs than get the features you mentioned, but there are people who feel those are important and would pay for them. Now, if Apple sold Macbooks without those features for a lower price, do you think there would be many people that would pay a premium to get them? I think people are more willing to pay the extra cash for Macs not because of what you mentioned, but for peace of mind. The perception that Macs are more reliable and have a lot less problems than Windows PCs is huge (I'm not here to debate that and I don't want to start a flame war) and that alone is worth it because people just want a computer that's gonna do what they need when they want and don't have the time, knowledge or patience to fix problems if and when they come up.
@spaz1
Which are $4,500 for a 13". Are you trying to make a point?
@hulahoophugs totally agree. Take my 27" iMac. The display alone is worth at least 1400 bucks... try finding a high quality 27" monitor that's LED backlit for much less than that. Add in a quad-core i7, 8 gigs of ram and the high quality casing and materials and you're really not far off on price from what you can try to buy elsewhere.
@fourthletter
1. Difficult to use? It's big, natural and just awesome - it actually can replace a mouse most of the time.
2. I'll give you that! My MBP13's display really sucks - no doubt.
3. Source? Most consumers probably don't use it, but (video) professionals sure do - that's what distinguish Apple laptops from consumers laptops.
4/5. You said it! Thinkpads and Vaios aren't cheap either.
6. Expensive? Yes. Awesome? Yes. MagSafe adapters melting aren't a common issue.
7. You do know aluminium is very light? Makes me doubt you have ever own a MacBook (see your #6 answer)
The MacBook aren't leapfrog products compared to others, but it got the details right. For me that's what counts.
@hulahoophugs
I love your sarcasm, and I agree with you.
If they aren't the same price as the current generation then its a rip-off. Considering that there are at least two PC laptops on the retail shelf for less than 1500 bucks with 1080p screens, 8gb of ram and rocking video cards and nearly 10 hour batteries with i7 processors that are twice the speed of the current generation macbooks.
@Jakob
By "Difficult to use" I think he meant it's not such a valid point anymore, as plenty of other laptops have it now.
@awalk Are you F'in Steve Jobs?!
@hulahoophugs
You are not up to date with what the market offers.
Sony and others are offering almost all of that at about half the price.
@Jakob
6. Expensive? Yes. Awesome? Yes. MagSafe adapters melting aren't a common issue.
Uh... Yes the melting magsafe power connector is a very common issue. It happened with my first-gen macbook, which, for a variety of hardware issues, will be the last mac I'll ever purchase.
@eli
My Samsung LED monitor (XL2370-1) that I got for $400 and my i7 920 Rig that I built for under $1K W/12 GB ram would disagree with you,...
@meboy Really? The Vaio Z STARTS at $1,900...the MBP, while slightly lesser specced, starts at $1,200...did you happen to steal that Sony? That could explain the price discrepancy
@eli http://search.dell.com/searchcom_redirect.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&cs=&k=monitor&tdc=2&p=1&rpp=12&cd=1&cat=prod&sfp=product&dtype=product&did=320-1172&redp=http%3a%2f%2faccessories.us.dell.com%2fsna%2fproducts%2fDisplays%2fproductdetail.aspx%3fc%3dus%26l%3den%26cs%3d19%26sku%3d320-1172&redpe=440b70d1-cd6e-a4f0-fa14-90859c1a4d3d
http://search.dell.com/searchcom_redirect.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&cs=&k=monitor&tdc=36&p=1&rpp=12&cd=5&cat=prod&sfp=product&dtype=product&did=223-9379&redp=http%3a%2f%2faccessories.us.dell.com%2fsna%2fproducts%2fDisplays%2fproductdetail.aspx%3fc%3dus%26l%3den%26cs%3d19%26sku%3d223-9379&redpe=e2ebbe00-8660-dc6c-4709-290f9ad11ba5
theres your monitor
and for that fact there cases arnt all that great. ill take my coolermaster haf932
you got me on the intel cause i dont use intel so i dont know there pricing schemes but i do know there expensive
@FamiCube64 even if he meant that plenty of other laptops have it now, you cannot seriously think that they are as good as the mac touchpads...
i try using my friends' computers and they don't work nearly as well, plus all the gestures the mac touchpad has beats anything else by a long shot
@fourthletter You really struggle to use the glass trackpad? For me it's easier than a mouse, or my wacom tablets. Show me a laptop with a better trackpad, and I will genuinely consider buying it.
@eli
"try finding a high quality 27" monitor that's LED backlit for much less than that."
LOL like my 32" LG LH3240 TV which is LED backlit, 1080p, 2ms response, and is strictly used as my PC monitor directly connected via HDMI. For $600 USAD. Another case of Apple hosing their customers, who fail to realize they're being hosed.
@n0ne
It seems like these are old ads from before the price cut in June. Notice how the Macbook Air is still running Leopard, for example.
@spaz1
The Mac Pro is much, much faster than that Vaio. d
@hulahoophugs
My Core i7 thinkpad has all of these things:
multitouch trackpad
led-backlit display
firewire 800
motion sensors that park the hard drive
ambient light sensors that autodim the screen
Has equivalents to these:
backlit keyboard -> ThinkLight
aluminum unibody design -> Carbon-fiber roll cage
AppleCare -> 3year accidental damage protection (for same $ or cheaper)
Mini DisplayPort -> Regular DisplayPort
Is lacking this:
magsafe power adapter (which is admittedly awesome)
But has these which the Macbooks are missing:
Removable battery
eSata
powered usb (for charging things when device is off but plugged in)
Matte screen instead of glossy screen (personal pref, I know)
Oh, and I got all that for $1100. So, not half price, but still $700 cheaper. That leaves Apple's aesthetics and OSX as the only things left to make up the difference.
And for the price of a 17" macbook pro, you can get a thinkpad with a built-in secondary LCD and wacom digitizer. Seriously!
@hulahoophugs This is what most people forget when they complain about Mac prices. The only mainstream PC manufacturer that comes close to Apple is Sony, and you pay a premium for their machines too. All the little "extras" that Apple machines have add up to a better computing experience in my opinion.
@hulahoophugs People who say that Apple are too over-priced are clearly missing the point. It is true that you can buy PCs for a fraction of the price of a Mac, but those machines are barely usable in real-word situations. On paper, they are fine, but as soon as you start using Internet Explorer and MS office, you soon realize why it's important to buy a more robust machine.
The big draw to the Windows/PC set up is usually down to how many USB ports it has, how large the hard disk is, how much memory it has, which completely misses the point over why not to buy a Mac.
@hulahoophugs
What's so special about the magsafe connectors? If someone tripped up on my cord it would come out too instead of dragging my laptop with it. Maybe if it was a netbook for something I could see the use...
@n0ne Drop that price hike on a clueless Aborigine who's returning from his walkabout with the wallabies & dingos and you might get a spear through the chest. Lol.
@n0ne maybe in your opinion I wouldnt buy a PC that is my opinion. The Macbook Pro and iMac line are the only Apple I still believe in
@awalk It sure is. I have always had to use a mouse with my HP laptops and now I wouldnt even think of it. The touchpad is my fav part of the Macbook Pro line
@fourthletter Speak for yourself. If you have used the trackpad on a PC then I can see your frusteration. The Macbook Pros track pad sets its self apart from the trash that is PC notbooks
@gan7114 You're comparing a commodity TV to a high-end monitor? (From Dell, the 27" costs the same as the iMac, without the computer.)
@eli
You really don't do much comparative shopping, do you? I spec'ed your iMac for about $2,400 @ Apple. Do you realize what you can get from HP or Toshiba with that? Or what a PC builder can build with that? There are a lot of amazing monitors (25"-30") out there for well less than $1400. CNET's best reviewed monitor of the year (Dell UltraSharp U2711) can be had for under $1,000. I am really glad I didn't fall for Apple. My Macbook woke me up to how much of a rip-off they are.
@hulahoophugs You should look into a Lenovo T or W series. $500-$600 less with the same quality.
@hulahoophugs @hulahoophugs My Dell E6400 has most of that except the magsafe ,glass trackpad and unibody construction, not that it cares me enough not to have that since it has survived an accidental drop from about 4 feet and did not even scratch.
It also came with a docking station with dual DVI (that truly makes it a desktop replacement) and a very nice suitcase all cost about 1900 USD.
Not saying all fancy stuff on Apple products are worthless but when it comes to value, Dell and PC in general triumphs
@Xenoterranos
If only Macbooks had trackpoint.
@fourthletter
Mac pricing against the PC's will always create a sore point. A true test of value between the two is to have one of the big name PC hardware vendors like Dell or Sony make a PC with the same spec, build (including materials) as a Mac and also create and maintain their own OS to run on their hardware. I belive the PC price would increase significantly.
Remember it's Microsoft that has to do the heavy lifting with Windows not the hardware vendors who just pay for a licence.
@fourthletter There are touchpads and then there is the glass touchpad on the Macbook, two very different things.
@gan7114 The 27" iMac has an higher resolution than your 32" display. It has 1440 lines, you only1080...
@fourthletter
Actually, Apple has all the patents for the hard-drive parking tech.
@n0ne
Karl Pilkington has got a head like a fuckin' orange.
@meboy
Apple fanboys aren't up to date with anything but Apple. If Apple touts something, they think only Apple has it. It's the effect of Apple's excellent marketing overall. Apple hypes everything through so many channels and achieve that huge mind share. Apple is 60% marketing, 40% actual innovation and product differentiation.
@fourthletter
I get to see hundreds of laptops a day at school and have yet to see anyone (besides the mac owners) who have a LT with a touchpad, as for that matter I rarely see ones that have the light sensors in them. In all the LT's I have used I can honestly say I have never once used a trackpad that feels good to use or is comfortable, most trackpad are half the size or even small than the MBP glass trackpad. This is one of the main reason I have never owned a PC laptop. I will admit the MBP glass pad was a little weird at first but once you use it everything else pretty much sucks. I will agree that Macs are expensive and a little over priced but if you get a Vaio or thinkpad you pay almost the same amount, hhmmm seams there is a trend of getting what you pay for here. I will say you can get many LT's for half the price of a MBP and they have twice the memory or hard drive, but you can sacrifice quality and have to buy another computer when it breaks and the warranty doesn't cover it,while Apple will replace my computer when it breaks because they have the best CS hands down. As for the weight of the unibody, I carry this thing around all day and forget it is in my backpack and throw my backpack around, I have yet to get a single scratch on this thing in six months and do not own a case for protector for it, give me a PC that can take that kind of abuse, plus I have held netbooks that weight more than my MBP.
@Ruthless
Apple fanboys are ridiculous to the point like women with LV and Prada purses. You are basically a woman saying that 2k you spent buying a european purse is the best purchase ever, and all the purses aren't even carriable. Power to Apple's marketing department. People lose objectivity and can't think for themselves anymore after being brainwashed by Apple.
@spaz1
I'm pretty sure that computer costs 3000 dollars. If a lot of people here are suggesting that the price is too high for these current macs, why on earth would you speak of one that is double in price? just to tout its omgi7 processor?
@MONKEY
Are you comparing Sonys ultra high end mobility machine with higher specs, SSD, lighter and a thinner machine to a 13 inch macbook pro?
A sony S would be a better comparison for a Macbook pro 13