We've definitely learned a ton about Windows Phone 7 Series here at MIX, but getting the full picture on multitasking has been difficult, since the OS isn't ready, no one has final hardware, and the emulator seems to behave differently than actual devices and Microsoft's descriptions. So let's set the record straight on multitasking: it's not going to happen, at least not in the traditional way. Not only have we directly confirmed this with Microsoft executives several times, but the developer sessions here are totally clear on the matter -- you don't tell 1000+ devs that they should expect their apps to be killed whenever the user switches away from them if you don't mean it. Now, that's not to say that the OS can't do multitasking: first-party apps like the Zune player and IE can run in the background, and third-party apps are actually left running in a suspended state (Microsoft calls it "dehydrated") as long as the system doesn't need any additional resources. If the user cycles back to an app, it's resumed ("rehydrated") and life continues merrily along, but if the user opens other apps and the system needs additional resources, the app is killed without any indication or remorse.
If that sounds familiar, it's because it's basically a single-tasking riff on Android and Windows Mobile 6, both of which also purport to intelligently manage multiple running applications like this, and both of which usually find themselves greatly improved with manual task managers. We'll have to see if Windows Phone 7 Series can do a better job once it ships -- we have a feeling it will -- and later down the line we'll see if Microsoft decides to extend multitasking to third-party apps. But for now, just know that you're not going to be running Pandora in the background while you do other tasks on a 7 Series device -- it is a question we have specifically asked, and the answer, unfortunately, is no.
P.S. Still don't believe us? Hear it for yourself directly from Microsoft's Todd Brix:
It's not. If I am listening to Wunderradio on my iPhone and get an SMS, answer the SMS then return to Wunderradio, it doesn't save it's previous state.
@kb24istrash nothing better than doing multiple things at once on a 4 inch screen... It seems so easy.. I'll be doing term papers on my phone in no time!
@trek .. that is the fault of the DEVELOPER not Apple. Notifications get sent to apps whenever it is about to be terminated by the OS. Wunnderradio is being lazy by not saving state.
This is NO different to how WPS7 will work as how is the OS supposed to know what state to save ? You can't just write RAM to the FS. They will need to ask the app to do it just like Apple does.
@trek .. if that is the case then MS has a bunch of morons working for them. I don't think that is the case.
Simply writing the contents of RAM to disk i.e. an "automatic way" is a dumb, dumb decision. If I am a developer then I need to know if my app is being suspended so I can responsibly disconnect and/or notify network and file services.
@khimerkial Android -so far- is easily the best choice. And I'm talking about Android on March 17th 2010... talk about Android 3.5, or 4.0 or whatever we'll have by Christmas 2010 when WP7S launches with no flash, copy paste, or 3rd part multitasking.
Symbian does true multitasking, and it's open source.
I REALLY REALLY prefer symbian over Android, but the symbian Hardware these days is crap, and the touchscreen iterations of the OS are also shite. But the best non touchscreen phones run Symbian IMO, and once Nokia gets their Symbian ^3 out it's gonna be awesome..
@kb24istrash Once again I bet your not the only windoze fanboi that projects his dissapointment with win ph 7 on the iPhone. You won't be the only one that attempts to bash iPhone I guarentee.
@kb24istrash I can't wait to see if iPhone comes out with multitasking on 4.0 then what will you windoze people have to bash then. If you don't like iPhone great get one of the many other great OS out there but it doesn't make you look cool to bash another company cause you are mad somethigbg is a let down on a different platform
@kb24istrash This is serious fail. I mean they will have Office support, but no multi? Lame. If anyone could deliver multitasking + battery life I thought for sure it'd be MS.
I would really like to understand what everyone's definition of multitasking is. On my computer I can run multiple programs and be able to visually see each one and interact in between them simultaneously. To date I have not seen any phone (I'm sure there are a few) that can do what I have described and that included the WebOS and Android enabled devices.
So again what is "full multitasking"?
In WebOS you have the card system but the cards are basically visual bookmarks. The programs are simply backgrounded until the user returns.
In Android the same thing happens. I open an app and I have to exit another. Then I can hold home and see it running in the background but to me this is still not true multitasking.
If everyone is complaining about backgrounding 3rd party apps I can understand the complaint but the model doesn't seem to far from what everyone aside from apple is doing. The only problem I see is whether WP7 will have some sort of recently ran app list that I can make appear from anywhere in the Os.
My biggest issue with the Iphone was it never had something equivalent to a recent app list. I always had to back out of the current apps then swipe to find the app then enter it. There was also that problem of being unable to background 3rd party apps...
@kb24istrash As much as I hate responding to trolls... ... a mobile OS will be better than the iPhone? ... or a specific implementation of Windows Phone 7 will be better? If so, which?
@Plazmic Flame they are copying Apple because it's all Microsoft knows how to do!!! They figure if they copy Apple in the same way they copied them with the visual OS, they can overtake Apple just as they did before with low cost of entry etc... Only thing is, Apple already has low cost of entry in the mobile space.
Meh! I'm quite sad that M$ has just decided to copy Apple, and what's worse is that what they are copying is the 2007 iPhone, not the 2010 iPhone. Apple is not at all scared of WPS7...
@taligent Saving application state without it knowing is possible as log as you plan (and want) to do it when you build your OS. Desktop OSes can hibernate keeping all applications states an resuming them later.
@Slvrgun Sort of.. I'm not sure what it's like with WebOS, but having developed software for both WinMo 6 and Android, I can tell you the difference. WinMo doesn't actually have any restrictions for what your program does when it loses focus, or even how many programs are on the screen at once. When your program is not visible, windows sends your program a notification. Whether you choose to put your program in a suspend state or not IS COMPLETELY OPTIONAL. If you really wanted your program to be a dick, you could have it handle the message and respond by either putting itself back on top, or just burning cpu cycles in the back. You can also run several programs and have all of them be visible on the screen, provided you make each window small enough to allow the others to be visible.
Android works a bit differently in that it forces your program into a suspend state when it loses focus, then restores it to a running state when it regains focus. When you have backed out of your window entirely, the process is usually killed (in most circumstances). You can force your program to run in the background if you make it a special type of program called a service. In that case, Android will happily let it continue running even when it is no longer visible (handy when writing a chat client, for example).
From what I gather, Microsoft decided to do away with the full on cowboy multitasking because it was up to the (usually not very competent) programmer to put the program into a suspend state, so a rogue program could either grind your phone to a halt or eat your battery life in minutes. The approach they're taking now seems to be closer to Android's approach, where programs are put into a suspend state (but physically kept in RAM) when they are in the background, allowing the system to devote the cpu to the current foreground task and OS services, and removed entirely when extra resource is needed.
I think some of you are getting a little confused about the suspend state. Nothing is written out to the file system. The OS simply sends the program a notification, then does not schedule any cpu time for the particular task until it regains focus.
@jroff It's still a load of crap, and a step backwards from Winmo 6.
I mean look. All the potential problems you just described with multitasking on Winmo 6 are also potential problems on Windows XP, or Vista, or Windows 7, for god's sake, yet MS is making no moves to remove true multitasking from those OS's. Why not? Because we *demand* they don't. Do you think anyone would stand for a desktop OS that won't really run more than one app at once these days? Of course not. So MS lets us do it.
I'm tired of MS deciding how we should be using Windows Mobile. They remove cut and paste because "people don't use it" - well guess what, some of us do, so why *remove* a feature you've always had before? Ditto for multitasking. I frankly don't care if 85% or 90% of people don't do it. I do, and it costs MS nothing to just *not* remove that feature, or change the way it works. Give people the option to use their phones *how they want*, not how MS thinks they should.
MS is going the Apple route here, and it is going to cause my WinMo 6.5 phone to be my last phone running an MS OS. Android here I come - it may handle multitasking similarly, but at least it can friggin' copy and paste.
@Slvrgun In what world can you interact with applications/programs simultaneously on a PC? As long as I have used a PC you have to click in a window prior to interacting with it (or alt-tab between windows). Second, have you EVER used a WebOS device... EVER? It is very similar to a PC in that you have multiple LIVE cards open (like Windows) and you tap on the one you want to work in. How is this different then Windows multitasking? Third, cards that are not in use are still live like windows applications (open up multiple browser pages on a pre/pixi and tilt the phone to see pages change orientation, scroll in a card then minimize it and it will continue to scroll). I'm not sure what you are saying about backgrounding? Lets follow that path though, even if cards were run as background task they still get processor cycles soooo they are not suspended and hence multitasking. By your logic Windows makes applications that you are not using backgrounds task. Look, you don't have to like Palm's implementation of multitasking (however close it is to what you state you like on your PC), MS doesn't have to use the method either but at least know what you are talking about prior to dismissing it.
@badasscat Not quite. The core parts of the non-mobile windows series are much more advanced than WinMo 6, so even run-away processes don't entirely bog down the system. What you're describing is closer to MacOS 9-, where a C program consisting of while(1){} could literally bring the entire OS to a dead stop.
Either way, the potential for full multitasking is present in WinMo 7, it's just been gimped Apple-style (denied or severely limited in 3rd party applications, while microsoft-supplied applications can take full advantage).
But I agree with you. There's no technical reason why the phone should not be able to handle several processes at the same time. My old ATT Tilt can run several resource intensive programs without taking a performance hit, and without reducing battery life. And some of the things, like lack of cut/paste, are inexcusable these days.
If Windows Phone 7 can handle the use of both Pandora and a GPS utility at once, I'll be a happy camper. That's what I can currently do with Android.
The key is, is there a way to tell WP7 that I (programmer) want this program to run continuously, or is it forced into a save mode just like the iPhone's is.
@Plazmic Flame wrestling defeat from the jaws of victory. I was finally excited about a MS phone OS. Clean, hopefully stable, innovating... only to find out at a) apps only via one marketplace b) no copy/paste; c) no real multitasking... so I'm left asking myself, when my contract expires in June... why should I wait for the 7 handsets to come out rather then go with something like the Droid?
I don't understand the logic of an MS exec: "So the iPhone does not have copy/paste, cannot multitask, and only allows apps installed via iTunes. And tons of people complained about it. And the iPhone was a smashing success. So... it must be because it has no copy/paste, multitasking, and forces users to go via iTunes."
@Mike10010100 My interpretation is it's sort of a blend, but I think they are being intentionally hazy on this and plan to not allow programmers to request and then it's granted. I view it as 1 of 2 main possibilities with maybe a blend of both, 1 MSFT feels they know what consumers want to be running in the background and will reach out to these partners to give them the option or 2 MSFT will play wait-and-see and when the buzz on the interwebs tells MSFT that people want pandora running until they kill it MSFT will then allow it to run in the background. As it's programmed it'll definitely allow native apps to run and have the potential for 3rd party, it's just 3rd party will be highly restricted and a simple request wont suffice.
Personally, I want the choice in my hands, not MSFT. Ideal would be in the settings to enable/disable multitasking with/without exceptions with exceptions to be made preferably through a computer syncing and/or during the install (cpu sync would make it less tedious to install 2-3 apps from wifi/3g, but hey, end of the day I'll take the option anyway it's given to me). I can remember to kill apps and notice when my phone is sluggish, I should be rewarded for not being a computer/smartphone novice, not punished for these 38 year old "life maximizer" who can't even maximize a freaking smartphones features.
@Chizzed exactly office is an example of something where you never need multitasking, as long as all apps always have their states saved, and running when in foreground. it's what one could call "passive multitasking". it would work identical. as long as you never put two apps side by side (and you never do that on a mobile anyways), there is no difference EVER between the solution microsoft presents and multitasking.
the only moment where you notice that the app doesn't run in the background is when you're playing audio, and it stops.
else, you notice it NEVER. not for games, not for apps, not for messengers, not for web, not for anything.
and they DO allow developers to request more direct native access to their systems, if they show reasons for it. so your radio-app of choice could request further access, certified and validated by microsoft, to deliver it's background playback. (if there's not yet a way to playback some temp audio file and f.e. with push notifications push the next audio part to the device, and let that playback then automatically.. could be interesting)
Right now I'm viewing them about the same and I'm not interested in Apple-style "bow to your masters" round 2. Looks like I'll be replacing the 3gs with a Nexus One.
@kb24istrash Is this not just creating an unfair advantage for the 1st party apps? I mean, no one will write a media player app that will by default have less functionality (not be able to run in the background) than a 1st party player. Surely they could have an approval system where multitasking functionality is extended to 3rd party apps that are correctly written?
Does it really need WebOS multitasking? that would have been nice, but apps that cant run background processes like Pandora are left in a suspended state for future use. Unless, for some reason, need to ACTIVELY run multiple apps at one time, I don't see how this is a problem.
WebOS from what I've heard is the best OS when it comes to multitasking, especially in the Pre+ demonstrations however I feel like this is a pretty reasonable compromise. A program is paused when a user leaves it and is only closed if another is opened AND it hogs too many system resources. Considering the base specs mandated from WP7S, I imagine this won't be a problem at all. The real issue is what Microsoft deems as "too many resources."
This seems okay for now, I will wait for a demo, though.
@derX reasonable compromise? Reasonable is consumer choice. MSFT "Copy and paste isn't used that often" Google "I don't like multi-touch"...Semi-intelligent consumer "I don't care what you think/like."
@taligent Are you dense? Microsoft has stated numerous times that applications, such as Pandora, can play their music in the background ..something the iPhone can not do.
I wasn't referring to a reasonable compromise between what the consumer wants and what the company wants to do I meant a reasonable compromise in terms of a model of multitasking that allows the user to operate several programs at a time while not being too burdensome on the hardware.
I completely agree with you, the "people don't need this" and "we don't like arguments" grind my gears and spit in the faces of consumers.
Why shouldn't a company say "People don't need this"? For every iPhone user that complains about lack of true multitasking there are 10,000 that will never use it. It is possible for companies to know their users' average usage patterns.
Personally I think it's good to avoid multitasking on the whole for performance reasons (compared 3GS vs Android UI responsiveness lately?) but apps should save and resume their state exactly and quickly, and there should be some facility for small daemons to continue running to handle things like background audio. My guess is that's the route Apple will take. You don't need the whole app in the background.
@YvesOfWinter Agreed. I actually do a bit of developing on Android. Let me tell you the Android OS actually does something very similar to this. Apps enter a state of "limbo" in which it's not guaranteed your app will return to a running state. So the book I'm learning from recommends you save your state before you go into that "limbo" state. Because if the systems deems it necessary your app will be killed.
@YvesOfWinter Yeah, I don't mind this so much either. Even Windows Mobile 6 had problems with background tasks swamping the processor so that streaming music while doing other things could lead to skips.
Full streaming while doing other things would be nice but I can't think of the last time I did anything that involved a background process that couldn't be "paused" while I was doing other things.
Still doesn't makeup for no Copy/Paste. Android it is.
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posted March 17th 2010 8:34PM
I bet it will be better than iphone
@kb24istrash
but i would still prefer full multitasking and an open source OS, so...
android it is!
@kb24istrash
To me it's the exact same thing as what Apple does, how can they make it better.
This is also scary....why is M$ going the route of Apple? I know copying is the best compliment but ffs....it can also get you sued.
@Plazmic Flame
It's not. If I am listening to Wunderradio on my iPhone and get an SMS, answer the SMS then return to Wunderradio, it doesn't save it's previous state.
@kb24istrash .. respectfully disagree. Right now WPS7 is looking like iPhone 1.0 with Apple expecting to be releasing iPhone 4.0 this year.
The only OS that seems to be actually innovating right now is Android.
@kb24istrash nothing better than doing multiple things at once on a 4 inch screen... It seems so easy.. I'll be doing term papers on my phone in no time!
@trek .. that is the fault of the DEVELOPER not Apple. Notifications get sent to apps whenever it is about to be terminated by the OS. Wunnderradio is being lazy by not saving state.
This is NO different to how WPS7 will work as how is the OS supposed to know what state to save ? You can't just write RAM to the FS. They will need to ask the app to do it just like Apple does.
@taligent
The difference here is the MS API seems to suspend an application's state automatically, regardless if the devs have coded for it.
@trek
Never mind... misread the article.
@khimerkial
Looks to me like this method that MS is using will save tons of battery life.
@trek Then write the developer of Wunderradio and tell him to implement persistence of state. It's been there for well over a year.
How you can blame Apple for a developer not taking advantage of an OS feature is beyond me.
@trek .. if that is the case then MS has a bunch of morons working for them. I don't think that is the case.
Simply writing the contents of RAM to disk i.e. an "automatic way" is a dumb, dumb decision. If I am a developer then I need to know if my app is being suspended so I can responsibly disconnect and/or notify network and file services.
@trek
Don't what is Wunderradio but I could tell you when I play certain games on my iPod Touch, and I leave the game suddenly, it pauses its position.
@khimerkial
Android -so far- is easily the best choice. And I'm talking about Android on March 17th 2010... talk about Android 3.5, or 4.0 or whatever we'll have by Christmas 2010 when WP7S launches with no flash, copy paste, or 3rd part multitasking.
@khimerkial
uhuh, android also does this suspend shite.
Symbian does true multitasking, and it's open source.
I REALLY REALLY prefer symbian over Android, but the symbian Hardware these days is crap, and the touchscreen iterations of the OS are also shite.
But the best non touchscreen phones run Symbian IMO, and once Nokia gets their Symbian ^3 out it's gonna be awesome..
@kb24istrash Once again I bet your not the only windoze fanboi that projects his dissapointment with win ph 7 on the iPhone. You won't be the only one that attempts to bash iPhone I guarentee.
@kb24istrash I can't wait to see if iPhone comes out with multitasking on 4.0 then what will you windoze people have to bash then. If you don't like iPhone great get one of the many other great OS out there but it doesn't make you look cool to bash another company cause you are mad somethigbg is a let down on a different platform
@kb24istrash This is serious fail. I mean they will have Office support, but no multi? Lame. If anyone could deliver multitasking + battery life I thought for sure it'd be MS.
@khimerkial
I would really like to understand what everyone's definition of multitasking is. On my computer I can run multiple programs and be able to visually see each one and interact in between them simultaneously. To date I have not seen any phone (I'm sure there are a few) that can do what I have described and that included the WebOS and Android enabled devices.
So again what is "full multitasking"?
In WebOS you have the card system but the cards are basically visual bookmarks. The programs are simply backgrounded until the user returns.
In Android the same thing happens. I open an app and I have to exit another. Then I can hold home and see it running in the background but to me this is still not true multitasking.
If everyone is complaining about backgrounding 3rd party apps I can understand the complaint but the model doesn't seem to far from what everyone aside from apple is doing. The only problem I see is whether WP7 will have some sort of recently ran app list that I can make appear from anywhere in the Os.
My biggest issue with the Iphone was it never had something equivalent to a recent app list. I always had to back out of the current apps then swipe to find the app then enter it. There was also that problem of being unable to background 3rd party apps...
@taligent
webOS...
@khimerkial
Android works the same. At least read the article completely and then reply.
@kb24istrash
As much as I hate responding to trolls...
... a mobile OS will be better than the iPhone?
... or a specific implementation of Windows Phone 7 will be better? If so, which?
@Plazmic Flame they are copying Apple because it's all Microsoft knows how to do!!!
They figure if they copy Apple in the same way they copied them with the visual OS, they can overtake Apple just as they did before with low cost of entry etc... Only thing is, Apple already has low cost of entry in the mobile space.
Meh! I'm quite sad that M$ has just decided to copy Apple, and what's worse is that what they are copying is the 2007 iPhone, not the 2010 iPhone. Apple is not at all scared of WPS7...
@taligent Saving application state without it knowing is possible as log as you plan (and want) to do it when you build your OS. Desktop OSes can hibernate keeping all applications states an resuming them later.
@khimerkial: I really like Android but it's a shame it has to be "illegally
' rooted to access certain features such as memory a cpu speed management.
I haven't rooted my Milestone yet but I might eventually.
@Slvrgun
Sort of.. I'm not sure what it's like with WebOS, but having developed software for both WinMo 6 and Android, I can tell you the difference. WinMo doesn't actually have any restrictions for what your program does when it loses focus, or even how many programs are on the screen at once. When your program is not visible, windows sends your program a notification. Whether you choose to put your program in a suspend state or not IS COMPLETELY OPTIONAL. If you really wanted your program to be a dick, you could have it handle the message and respond by either putting itself back on top, or just burning cpu cycles in the back. You can also run several programs and have all of them be visible on the screen, provided you make each window small enough to allow the others to be visible.
Android works a bit differently in that it forces your program into a suspend state when it loses focus, then restores it to a running state when it regains focus. When you have backed out of your window entirely, the process is usually killed (in most circumstances). You can force your program to run in the background if you make it a special type of program called a service. In that case, Android will happily let it continue running even when it is no longer visible (handy when writing a chat client, for example).
From what I gather, Microsoft decided to do away with the full on cowboy multitasking because it was up to the (usually not very competent) programmer to put the program into a suspend state, so a rogue program could either grind your phone to a halt or eat your battery life in minutes. The approach they're taking now seems to be closer to Android's approach, where programs are put into a suspend state (but physically kept in RAM) when they are in the background, allowing the system to devote the cpu to the current foreground task and OS services, and removed entirely when extra resource is needed.
I think some of you are getting a little confused about the suspend state. Nothing is written out to the file system. The OS simply sends the program a notification, then does not schedule any cpu time for the particular task until it regains focus.
Hope that clears some confusion up.
@jroff It's still a load of crap, and a step backwards from Winmo 6.
I mean look. All the potential problems you just described with multitasking on Winmo 6 are also potential problems on Windows XP, or Vista, or Windows 7, for god's sake, yet MS is making no moves to remove true multitasking from those OS's. Why not? Because we *demand* they don't. Do you think anyone would stand for a desktop OS that won't really run more than one app at once these days? Of course not. So MS lets us do it.
I'm tired of MS deciding how we should be using Windows Mobile. They remove cut and paste because "people don't use it" - well guess what, some of us do, so why *remove* a feature you've always had before? Ditto for multitasking. I frankly don't care if 85% or 90% of people don't do it. I do, and it costs MS nothing to just *not* remove that feature, or change the way it works. Give people the option to use their phones *how they want*, not how MS thinks they should.
MS is going the Apple route here, and it is going to cause my WinMo 6.5 phone to be my last phone running an MS OS. Android here I come - it may handle multitasking similarly, but at least it can friggin' copy and paste.
@Slvrgun In what world can you interact with applications/programs simultaneously on a PC? As long as I have used a PC you have to click in a window prior to interacting with it (or alt-tab between windows). Second, have you EVER used a WebOS device... EVER? It is very similar to a PC in that you have multiple LIVE cards open (like Windows) and you tap on the one you want to work in. How is this different then Windows multitasking? Third, cards that are not in use are still live like windows applications (open up multiple browser pages on a pre/pixi and tilt the phone to see pages change orientation, scroll in a card then minimize it and it will continue to scroll). I'm not sure what you are saying about backgrounding? Lets follow that path though, even if cards were run as background task they still get processor cycles soooo they are not suspended and hence multitasking. By your logic Windows makes applications that you are not using backgrounds task. Look, you don't have to like Palm's implementation of multitasking (however close it is to what you state you like on your PC), MS doesn't have to use the method either but at least know what you are talking about prior to dismissing it.
@badasscat
Not quite. The core parts of the non-mobile windows series are much more advanced than WinMo 6, so even run-away processes don't entirely bog down the system. What you're describing is closer to MacOS 9-, where a C program consisting of while(1){} could literally bring the entire OS to a dead stop.
Either way, the potential for full multitasking is present in WinMo 7, it's just been gimped Apple-style (denied or severely limited in 3rd party applications, while microsoft-supplied applications can take full advantage).
But I agree with you. There's no technical reason why the phone should not be able to handle several processes at the same time. My old ATT Tilt can run several resource intensive programs without taking a performance hit, and without reducing battery life. And some of the things, like lack of cut/paste, are inexcusable these days.
@jroff
If Windows Phone 7 can handle the use of both Pandora and a GPS utility at once, I'll be a happy camper. That's what I can currently do with Android.
The key is, is there a way to tell WP7 that I (programmer) want this program to run continuously, or is it forced into a save mode just like the iPhone's is.
@Plazmic Flame wrestling defeat from the jaws of victory. I was finally excited about a MS phone OS. Clean, hopefully stable, innovating... only to find out at a) apps only via one marketplace b) no copy/paste; c) no real multitasking... so I'm left asking myself, when my contract expires in June... why should I wait for the 7 handsets to come out rather then go with something like the Droid?
I don't understand the logic of an MS exec: "So the iPhone does not have copy/paste, cannot multitask, and only allows apps installed via iTunes. And tons of people complained about it. And the iPhone was a smashing success. So... it must be because it has no copy/paste, multitasking, and forces users to go via iTunes."
@Mike10010100 My interpretation is it's sort of a blend, but I think they are being intentionally hazy on this and plan to not allow programmers to request and then it's granted. I view it as 1 of 2 main possibilities with maybe a blend of both, 1 MSFT feels they know what consumers want to be running in the background and will reach out to these partners to give them the option or 2 MSFT will play wait-and-see and when the buzz on the interwebs tells MSFT that people want pandora running until they kill it MSFT will then allow it to run in the background. As it's programmed it'll definitely allow native apps to run and have the potential for 3rd party, it's just 3rd party will be highly restricted and a simple request wont suffice.
Personally, I want the choice in my hands, not MSFT. Ideal would be in the settings to enable/disable multitasking with/without exceptions with exceptions to be made preferably through a computer syncing and/or during the install (cpu sync would make it less tedious to install 2-3 apps from wifi/3g, but hey, end of the day I'll take the option anyway it's given to me). I can remember to kill apps and notice when my phone is sluggish, I should be rewarded for not being a computer/smartphone novice, not punished for these 38 year old "life maximizer" who can't even maximize a freaking smartphones features.
@Chizzed exactly office is an example of something where you never need multitasking, as long as all apps always have their states saved, and running when in foreground. it's what one could call "passive multitasking". it would work identical. as long as you never put two apps side by side (and you never do that on a mobile anyways), there is no difference EVER between the solution microsoft presents and multitasking.
the only moment where you notice that the app doesn't run in the background is when you're playing audio, and it stops.
else, you notice it NEVER. not for games, not for apps, not for messengers, not for web, not for anything.
and they DO allow developers to request more direct native access to their systems, if they show reasons for it. so your radio-app of choice could request further access, certified and validated by microsoft, to deliver it's background playback. (if there's not yet a way to playback some temp audio file and f.e. with push notifications push the next audio part to the device, and let that playback then automatically.. could be interesting)
@kb24istrash
Right now I'm viewing them about the same and I'm not interested in Apple-style "bow to your masters" round 2. Looks like I'll be replacing the 3gs with a Nexus One.
@kb24istrash
Is this not just creating an unfair advantage for the 1st party apps? I mean, no one will write a media player app that will by default have less functionality (not be able to run in the background) than a 1st party player. Surely they could have an approval system where multitasking functionality is extended to 3rd party apps that are correctly written?
@khimerkial
Symbian & MeeGo, if you want real multitasking.
Is webOS multitasking really that hard Microsoft?
@RockNStuff
Does it really need WebOS multitasking? that would have been nice, but apps that cant run background processes like Pandora are left in a suspended state for future use. Unless, for some reason, need to ACTIVELY run multiple apps at one time, I don't see how this is a problem.
@YvesOfWinter
akin to going black, once you use webos, you can't go back to android/iphone os.
@YvesOfWinter .. are you dense ? .. If Pandora is in a suspended state then it isn't doing anything. This is no different to the way the iPhone works.
The whole point of multitasking is so I can do things like stream internet radio whilst browsing the web.
@taligent
lol, dont tell him his phone can do stuff without staring at the screen, he wont what to do with himself.
@RockNStuff
WebOS from what I've heard is the best OS when it comes to multitasking, especially in the Pre+ demonstrations however I feel like this is a pretty reasonable compromise. A program is paused when a user leaves it and is only closed if another is opened AND it hogs too many system resources. Considering the base specs mandated from WP7S, I imagine this won't be a problem at all. The real issue is what Microsoft deems as "too many resources."
This seems okay for now, I will wait for a demo, though.
@RockNStuff
No but they can't resist copying Apple
@derX reasonable compromise? Reasonable is consumer choice. MSFT "Copy and paste isn't used that often" Google "I don't like multi-touch"...Semi-intelligent consumer "I don't care what you think/like."
@taligent Are you dense? Microsoft has stated numerous times that applications, such as Pandora, can play their music in the background ..something the iPhone can not do.
@juanvaldez
I wasn't referring to a reasonable compromise between what the consumer wants and what the company wants to do I meant a reasonable compromise in terms of a model of multitasking that allows the user to operate several programs at a time while not being too burdensome on the hardware.
I completely agree with you, the "people don't need this" and "we don't like arguments" grind my gears and spit in the faces of consumers.
@derX
Why shouldn't a company say "People don't need this"? For every iPhone user that complains about lack of true multitasking there are 10,000 that will never use it. It is possible for companies to know their users' average usage patterns.
Personally I think it's good to avoid multitasking on the whole for performance reasons (compared 3GS vs Android UI responsiveness lately?) but apps should save and resume their state exactly and quickly, and there should be some facility for small daemons to continue running to handle things like background audio. My guess is that's the route Apple will take. You don't need the whole app in the background.
This is actually a relief. As long as my progress is saved automatically, and I can easily get back to my app, I'm satisfied.
@YvesOfWinter Agreed. I actually do a bit of developing on Android. Let me tell you the Android OS actually does something very similar to this. Apps enter a state of "limbo" in which it's not guaranteed your app will return to a running state. So the book I'm learning from recommends you save your state before you go into that "limbo" state. Because if the systems deems it necessary your app will be killed.
@YvesOfWinter
Yeah, I don't mind this so much either. Even Windows Mobile 6 had problems with background tasks swamping the processor so that streaming music while doing other things could lead to skips.
Full streaming while doing other things would be nice but I can't think of the last time I did anything that involved a background process that couldn't be "paused" while I was doing other things.
Still doesn't makeup for no Copy/Paste. Android it is.