Windows Phone Marketplace can remotely revoke app licenses
By Chris Ziegler 
posted March 17th 2010 12:42PM
posted March 17th 2010 12:42PM
Speaking at a MIX10 session about Windows Phone 7 Series architecture this morning, Microsoft's Istvan Cseri mentioned that the Windows Phone Marketplace -- the one and only clearinghouse for apps in WP7S -- will be able to remotely revoke licenses. Since devices will only run properly-licensed apps, this effectively means the company will be able to shut down apps remotely -- a capability they'd probably invoke if a Marketplace app were to badly misbehave en masse, for example. To put it bluntly, Cseri says that apps simply aren't in control of their own life cycle; the user controls installation and removal while the Marketplace ensures that the license is valid.On a related note, we know that Microsoft has a series of not-yet-finalized "business, technical, and content" guidelines for accepting and rejecting apps submitted to the Marketplace, and we've got a particularly interesting case: apps are being "discouraged" from using the phone's Back button. They're being so strongly discouraged, in fact, that Todd Brix -- senior director of mobile platform services product management at the company -- told us that apps can and will be straight-up rejected for using Back for anything but dismissing dialog boxes. We won't know the full rulebook until Microsoft releases it in May -- but in the meantime, don't bother making anything too controversial with those free tools, eh?
It just keeps getting better. :(
@ChazClout
The more I've been thinking about this its looking pretty bad. But I don't think this is a smartphone anymore. This is a PMP / Xbox lite that can make phone calls. I think MS decided to just rip out any smartphone away from this OS completely.
I'm not sure this is going to work for them. I think its going to get a ton of Xbox fans to jump over to this but this is no longer a geeks phone. I guess Android and Symbian are the last best hopes for that.
@ChazClout
NOW WITH 50% MORE RESTRICTIONS.
FREE!
Microsoft, please don't forget that your loyal fans that stuck with you through the changing faces of WinMo appreciated the open user experience. WP7S is an insult.
@Mack Stone
Exactly. This is clearly targeted at the casual user and the last few years have shown that is the real growth market. The majority of us geeks will look at the feature set and say 'yea or na' but our parents and grandparents will see this as the next generation iphone that has big buttons and a intuitive UI. The remote license is probably their way to remove unwanted applications from the system, but who knows how they implement it or whether they'll actually use it.
I can't say I care too much about multi-tasking because my phone isn't a computer and it shouldn't be treated as such. The copy and paste thing is somewhat a bummer because I'd like to be able to pull info from links or websites into an email.
Overall, I think the OS and UI is a good step is putting together a platform. If you're looking for an open platform that will allow you to do whatever you want, go see Android because this is using the Apple methodology which may or may not really cater to the geek audience. In terms of apps, I think that if they figure out an effective way for ads within apps that it won't take long to catch up because we could be heading toward a whole lot of free apps with ad-support instead of paying for single apps.
@DBX00 I really don't think your parents and grandparents will like the UI... they'll probably be wondering why the text is cut off and the boxes are all different sizes.
@Mack Stone
In short:
The Grandma's win.
Jitterbugs for all!
Nobody walks into AT&T Wireless and asks the clerk "does this OS have remote license revokation?"
For liability purposes Microsoft would be dumb not to include that. For liability reasons they'd also be dumb to ever invoke it.
@derX
We can make fun of WM7 now with out getting ripped on!?!?!?!
I did it from the start because it looks discusting and unprofessional!
@Mack Stone
Yes they are. Look up Engadget user reader1, view post history.
@Mack Stone
As you can see MS fans arent making excuses for the restrictions nor saying cultist nonsense like "well Steve knows what he is doing and I'm ok with that!".
You are hearing plenty of criticism from us. Go to any WM site and see pages of it.
Major difference from Apple fans that are still telling us that Flash is no big deal to this day as wel as multi-tasking.
@James Sonne Yeah, having and utilizing worked out real well for the Kindle. I agree that since they are now the distributor, they should probably have a killswitch, but I think many of us would prefer to have more openness without a corporate killswitch.
@Mack Stone
I dunno, really I don't like any fanboys. Period.
And to me there's a a fine line between just a fan and a fanboy.
@ChazClout
How right you are. Here we have management and organization. Microsoft is clearly enforcing a common user interface with its no Black Button policy and, that is good.
Once you have gotten over the initial shock of license revocation (remember 1984 on thje Kindle?) it actually looks like a good idea as it means software rental, managed try-outs, getting rid of crap apps that fail, guaranteed upgrades to latest versions.
The big question is however, will Microsoft play big brother censor and remove all the apps with pretty ladies like JobSoft does.
@Mack Stone
It's amazing that these Apple fanboys claim the "It's too late, 3 years behind" argumemt. Keep in mind that Blackberry dominates the smartphone marketshare in the US and Symbian for the rest of the world. Apple does not corner the market.
Keep in mind that smartphone users only account for a small portion of mobile users. Smartphone users hover around 20% of cellphone users. Smartphones is an emerging market.The market is still on the rise and its anybody's race. Of course my argument assumes that the larger piece of the pie will be smartphone users.
Dont judge things from your perspective. Most "regular" people dont have this fanboy mentality where they stick to one brand. Apple does have the mindshare due to the iPod which led to the iPhone but that could all change. PMPs and phones are different. Many factors such as price of the phone, plans, carriers, etc come into play. Many people will look at that more than just going for a brand. Symbian, Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. could take it. Dont be so quick to assume its too late because its not.
@ChazClout
Actually, i thought android had this capability too?
Which is fine - I think they've never done it. And even if they did, we can install from other sources, which WP7 can't do. I love android - I've had my G1 for a year and just bought an AT&T Nexus 1 yesterday - so I'm not knocking it... I'm just saying, android can do it too, and it hasn't been a problem, so maybe, just maybe, it won't be a problem with WP7. But then, it is Microsoft, so they'll probably screw it up.
-Taylor
@Mack Stone
Highly doubtful because Apple is a premium manufacturer. They may have a good chance of cleaning up the USA, but they still havent been appealing to enterprise markets. That is why they are second to the blackberry. When it comes to the iPhone, they are targeting the casual users, and they have been successful. But like I said, its only a small piece of the pie for now.
But what about emerging countries like China, India, etc.
Apple products are not cheap. Most analysts say Android will eventually dominate in China. All it takes is for these small, KIRF manufacturers to use the free Android OS and sell cheap phones all over Asia
The mobile computing space is still in it's infancy. It's gonna be interesting in the next few years, and like the desktop wars of the 80's, Apple came out and innovated first. We all know what happened soon after. This is now Apple's second opportunity and we shall see in the coming years if they will take it.
@Mack Stone
I like this new neutral tone of yours. You finally see that we "Microsoft Fanboys" (Not true, but your own words) will stick with our principles rather than go with one company over another. We also don't have the "Apple's already won" mentality that you'll find with Apple Fanboys.
Case in point, I made a smart decision. I had an HTC Mogul from Sprint, and was ok with it. It started to fall apart a couple months ago (after being a trooper for several years), and I decided to trade it in. I looked over my options and chose the only one that met all of my expectations. I got the HTC Hero. It has been the best and most fun phone I've ever owned. I can tether it for free, and Sprint has the cheapest unlimited plans. I am still on 1.5, and am waiting patiently for the (supposedly amazing) update to 2.1 in June or July.
Apple produces a phone that is overpriced and underfeatured in the beginning. Then, they drop the price and add a few features. In the meantime, the owners participated in cognitive dissonance by saying "We don't need the features that Jobs didn't give us." I'm saying that people like LAY and I don't try to justify the decisions of companies. I, personally, will move elsewhere if I deem a product unfit for my consumption instead of getting wrapped up in the hype.
@Mack Stone
...which is why I got the Hero. Has EVERY feature I want and works beautifully. And is getting an awesome update in June.
I just don't understand why people make compromises, then use cognitive dissonance to convince themselves they made the right decision.
I'm glad I chose to get a phone that had every feature, has an open market, and is freely rootable. And it works beautifully.
@Mack Stone
That is where I disagree. Like I said, PMPs are different. I find the equivocation of the new "walkman" different than committing to a productivity device with a contract. Yes, much of the average consumer will look at the iPhone and desire it, but there are others who dont care and others who have enterprise needs. Dont sell the average consumer short. They know what they want. And like I said earlier, troll, most people take into consideration other factors than being a one-brand fanboy.
And I disagree with Apple losing marketshare because of the management, although that is a factor. They lost because PCs are cheaper and MSFT overwhelmed them with their numerous hardware partners. To add to that, MSFT did have those uncompetitive practices.
And you are right, Apple has a much larger marketshare in the iPhone, but like I said, how is it that BB still beats them despite having a dated OS? The mobile space is gonna have multiple competitors and Apple is not gonna win the market of MSFT PC proportions if that's what you expect.
But most tech people should realize this, unless you are a fanboy...
@Mack Stone
Would be nice if you came down from that high iHorse of yours and tried to construct an argument without generalizations and "fanboy" in every sentence. So these fanboys can't see the forest for the trees and use things with "useless" features... right.
Those gadgets you look down upon GET SHIT DONE. Otherwise explain the continued world dominance of Symbian and RIM in smartphones. Most people are not interested in a romantic relationship with their gadgets, nor judge things from entirely subjective parameters like "fun to use".
The only one not seeing the forest here seems to be you. After you've been given wide angle views of the markets, the state of the mobile consumer industry, and other factors, you keep touting some imaginary complete dominance of Apple and even say others "get lucky". I dunno, try traveling to Japan, Europe or Latin America and - all huge mobile markets ahead of the US in penetration - and see for yourself who dominates. Look, outside MP3 players Apple is 3rd or worse in market share at everything else they do. That's how "lucky" or hopeless others are.
@Mack Stone
I disagree, but I do think your assessment is possible. Apple could win. But it wont be dominant like MSFT because there are too many competitors. I will tell you this: Winning the enterprise market is key and that could affect Apple. That's my opinion however.
But you are right, more "regular" people are computing more than ever and Apple could very well win them over due to their branding and locked ecosystem. And that's your argument.
We'll just have to wait and see.
@Mack Stone
Really? "Apple will win the war"? You act as if the war can ever be won. The company that you put your heart and soul into will never make others "back down" so that they can dominate the market. Why on earth would you even want that. That is the sign of a truly one-dimensional fanboy. A true fan of Apple would say that they wish there was more competition so that Apple's product wouldn't stagnate.
Your continuous "Apple will always win" attitude assumes that there is no way in hell that any other company could be half as innovative as Apple. I say that is false. Windows Series 7 could be a big contender now that it's just as neutered as the iPhone's OS was a year ago.
Android will continue to increase marketshare as everyone comes out of their closed-system Apple fog, and realizes that a phone can be fun and productive without the parent company telling people what they can and can't do with the product the user bought.
@DBX00 It doesn't look that intuitive to me. Different, yes, but not as immediately intuitive as iPhone OS or even WebOS.
@Mack Stone
"It was John Sculley who made a lot of the mistakes that led to Microsoft taking over the market. The market would have been totally different if Apple had kept Steve Jobs. Microsoft was very lucky."
I must disagree with this statement. Don't forget about Bill Gates in the 80's early 90's. The man was in his prime. He was a tyrant at the helm with a MONOPOLY (not a oligopoly but a MONOPOLY) on his mind. Apple needed Microsoft (Well documented. Cant argue the facts). We all know the history of Apple with out Microsoft and it didnt look good.
Ill take Bill over Steve any day of the week to run my company. I can count on BIll to take over the world instead of a small marketshare. This is not a swipe at Apple because theyre good (obviously) at what theyre doing (Ipod/Iphone/Itunes/etc...) BUT for you to say:
" The market would have been totally different if Apple had kept Steve Jobs. Microsoft was very lucky."
I must respectfully disagree.
@kb24istrash
I'm of two views on this:
Smart phones will continue to grow, but they'll never be the dominant handset. Not everybody needs a smart phone or wants to pay the fees and data plans associated with them.
But, smart phone features eventually trickle down to dumb phones and feature phones. A feature phone in two years, may be very similar to the iPhone of 2008. The carriers would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this, as it would mean that they'd be able to get everybody in on a mandatory data plan.
Remember the goal for carriers and manufacturers is to get you to spend more and more money on a plan, every month. Their holy grail is to get a customer over the $100 per month mark.
@Mack Stone
Agree 100% Thanks for your comments.
It was an interesting discussion between so-called Apple and MS or Android fanboys: it's too bad such discussion are so rare here on Engadget.
I agree with Mack: Apple is the only player with all pieces in hand to win the mobile "war". There is room for a few players here, but Apple will dominate this market. And this is correct: it is not only about mobile phones. iPod Touch and iPad like devices need to be taken into account.
@majipoor
Why does "fanboy" have to be added into the equation? Its called a "debate". There's no right or wrong in these arguments. Different point of views from all walks of life my friend you should know that. Lets keep it that way so we all can learn from them.
K.I.S.S
@majipoor
I'm not so sure about Apple having all the right pieces to win the mobile market. I do agree that they have a robust ecosystem working for them, but this whole argument seems too Amerocentric. Apple still has a relatively small share in the overall mobile market, and I mean the WHOLE mobile market. With about 4.1 billion mobile phones, and billions more music players, media devices, etc, Apple's share is not that large. Even if we make the improbable assertion that there are 50 million iPhone users, and 150 million iPod users, that still works out to much less than 10% of the total mobile market share.
The problem for Apple is price. Their devices cost hundreds of dollars, and, in the case of iPhones, the phone plan price is very steep as well, usually over $100 a month. In order to see a real market share jump, Apple would have to lower their prices drastically, as well as somehow coerce the mobile providers to lower their prices drastically as well. The fact is, most people, at this point, simply cannot afford Apple products or services. Of course, all of this applies for the other smartphone makers and providers as well. Android is arguably in a better position than Apple because their relatively open and free OS. As was pointed out earlier in the discussion, Android is lined up to see impressive growth in China and other densely populated, less affluent countries.
To say that Apple "has all the pieces in hand" to win the mobile war is, in my opinion, to ignore the big picture.
Also, kudos to all for making this a relatively rational, civil discussion.
@DBX00 I think it's "User Experience" focused. 35 year old couples?
No need to manage multiple apps, multi-task, just content with the least commands and the most flow. The least amount of settings possible, just a unified experience.
Customization is merely cosmetic for this type of device.
It has worked for Apple, and Microsoft seems to be going straight in that directions (which isn't bad for business). With enough integration with XBox Live and other Microsoft services, it will make a worthy contender against Apple's iPhone 3GS (Not able to project to the future that far) just because it is Microsoft friendly (moreso than the iPhone).
@Abe
I agree that Apple will not dominate if you use the number of devices sold worldwide as a criteria.
But for me and I guess for any company, volume market share is not the most important thing. Income and profit is what matters most for business.
Apple currently has 5% volume marker share in computers worldwide and probably 2% volume market share in mobile phone business: these are nor impressive numbers.
But Apple is a $50bn company worth $200bn on the market with $40bn in cash, no debt, 30-40% margin and an extremely high brand awareness. Apple's products are often the reference in their respective market (how many smartphone vs. iPhone article?) iTunes is THE platform for online music and may be soon THE platform for e-books and e-magazines.
This is domination for me, not volume market share.
win7 phone sounds worse every day.
@elduderino
but they pay engadget enough to stay on top. Unlike android who has been forgotten, if not insulted, by this website
@mascarpone
...what? Did I miss the part that made sense?
@elduderino Honestly, if Microsoft found that some app was stealing everyone's credit card(as an example) and I didn't know about it and had the app installed, I'd consider this a blessing. Microsoft isn't stupid, they've seen the backlash against using something like this for anything else(Kindle...). Also, as I remember, Android has a similar killswitch as does the iPhone...
@mascarpone
I'm a pretty big android fan and I haven't seen anything to corroborate such a silly remark.
WP7S is what is hot right NOW. When something Android comes out in two months thats a game changer I will move back to ANDROID. Same goes for Apple products. Sheesh, you really need to stop being so sensitive.
@mascarpone First it was Apple paying Engadget and now it's Microsoft. People need to make up their minds.
@mascarpone
You do realize that there is a conference for Microsoft developers going on right now and that there are no Android conferences going on at the moment, right? Do you want Engadget to just make up news about Android and put it on the front page?
@djt
try to read the HTC legend review. It's a total bogus.
And I say it not because of all the other reviews contradict engadget, but because finally I've been lucky enough to own one and I see that the endgadget reviewer totally lied. TOTALLY.
@mascarpone
About what specifically?
@mascarpone Android is good, but is faaaar from great. I've got the Hero and had the G1, but damn. I would prefer WM7.. if Microsoft didn't be such assholes
@Delta
oh shit you missed:
a) http://gdconf.com/
b) One of the most important relases for mobile gaming: OpenGL ES 2.0 for Android, with full control for the developers. Unlike the crippled version from apple.
@MKANAMAN You're comparing a phone running on a 528MHz ARM11 processor vs. a series of phones that have to run at least a Cortex A8 at 1GHz? My God, man. If you're going to compare something against WP7S, at least make it a Nexus One or equivalent.
@MKANAMAN
so you are confronting two product with a 3 years lapse between them?
what's next? are you going to tell me that windows 98 is much better than windows 95?
:P (just kidding don't take it rough :P)
@mascarpone That was announced over a week ago, and did get an article here. I'm not saying it isn't big news(it is) but there's not a whole lot you can say about it. (Coming from a Graphics programmer who's planning on using that new NDK capability to start working on a new game this week)
@mascarpone
That happened last week, when GDC was actually going on, and Engadget reported on it. What exactly is your point?
@Delta "Do you want Engadget to just make up news about Android and put it on the front page?" Sure why not, they certainly seem to come up with enough Apple rumors to post.
@mascarpone
The funny thing about reviews is that they are totally relative to the perspective of the reviewer. For instance, I have a droid and I probably wouldn't trade it for anything less than a Nexus One. Maybe they didn't like it in comparison to other phones they have tried out. With that being said though. I can recognize why any Android based phone may not be some peoples cup of tea. A few people I know who have iPhone's have thought about switching over and have asked me my thoughts. I usually give them a 10 minute rundown on why they may NOT like Android before even telling them about the pluses.
It all falls down to personal preference I guess. But I don't think they are being easy on MS or being paid by them or anything like that. This is just the big news of the week and the next few weeks as new details arise. Android is already well established so there isn't much new coming out until they update beyond 2.1.
@djt
so if engadget is the only website that considered the HTC Legend not up to par with other smartphones, it's just a question of point of view?
@mascarpone Yes.
@MarcusMaximus : if you installed and ran a malicious app, newsflash: TOO EFFING LATE! A remote kill switch is TOO LATE! Therefore, MS could remove the offending app from the app store to protect future buyers, while previous buyers are already SOL (no way around that for ANY app store except not approving the malicious app in the first place). Therefore, there is no good reason for a remote kill switch other than "oh we found this app violates the no titties rule" or "we found this app infringes some trademark or copyright because somebody said so with no proof but we're covering our ass".