Palm posts $22m Q3 loss, says it liked its chances against Droid had Verizon launch been sooner
By Darren Murph 
posted March 18th 2010 5:19PM
posted March 18th 2010 5:19PM
We're listening into the earnings call right now, and so far we've heard a few choice quotes. Jon mentioned that Palm has "aggressive roadmaps on the software front that we're working on," and that there were "no changes to our planned carrier launches." We'll let you know if he introduces the Pixi 2 or anything."Our recent underperformance has been very disappointing, but the potential for Palm remains strong. The work we're doing to improve sales is having an impact, we're making great progress on future products, and we're looking forward to upcoming launches with new carrier partners. Most importantly, we have built a unique and highly differentiated platform in webOS, which will provide us with a considerable - and growing - advantage as we move forward."
Update: The call's over. PreCentral points out a choice quote from Rubinstein:
In other words, Palm -- regardless of Verizon's positioning -- feels like the Pre Plus could've been a legitimate contender as a halo phone for the carrier had it been able to launch sooner, though that opportunity has obviously long since passed. We're not so sure we agree that the Droid and the Pre Plus play in quite the same space, but if nothing else, we like the chutzpah -- now it's time to deliver some new hardware.We had an arrangement with Sprint that when we launched with Sprint that they would invest in marketing and carry the product and for that they would get an exclusive for a period of time. That really determined when we could do our launch at Verizon. I agree with your premise that if we could have launched at Verizon earlier, prior to Droid, that we would have gotten the attention that the Droid got and since I believe that we have a better product, I think we would have even done better.
@mcfine
If Pre was any significant threat, Apple would sue them into oblivion...
Out of the Frying Pan into the fire...
Too bad there was no Apps.
@Kunta Kinte
Agreed. Aside from iPhone the Pre was definitely one of my contenders for what phone to get next.
However all the build quality issues and form factor turned me away. I don't really want nor need a physical keyboard.
But I do love the software...webOS is a great platform and I really hope Palm pulls itself together.
As for launching on Sprint I don't think it was a horrible move. I just think they could have played it a bit better from the ad perspective. Not to mention their name selection is sorta horrible to be honest.
Pre and Pixi just aren't what you call "cool" or "sexy" names.
@Wesscoast
Apple tried to sue them but they couldn't, due to the hundreds of Palm patent violations they have (Palm has been around for a while, ever heard of the Treo?). Sheesh... fanboys these days...
You know Palm's problem? It's their hardware industrial design! Their OS is fine, as good if not better than iPhone's. When the Pre came out, I ran to the store to check it out, one minute later I knew I wasn't going to get it. Their phone design is the problem that they sold so little. Now with Nexus One on all 4 carriers, and up ticking of the Android trend + coming WM7, I believe Palm's days are numbered.
@Tony Montana Isn't Blackberry moving away from it's trackball? Why does the N1 still have a trackball?
@Phantom Pain
Agreed about the average consumer. It hurt when I saw a teen spend three seconds randomly touching the Pre then told his mom "I want an LG Rumor, that phone has flowers as a background so it's gay."
Dead Duck.. .they'll be serving it for lunch in a Chinese restaurant soon.
....
They're in complete DENIAL blaming it on everything but the real reason they failed.. THEY PUT OUT STUPID PHONES.
Let me correct that... the CEO is blaming it on untrained salespeople in the conference call... THEY PUT OUT STUPID PHONES AND THE COMPANY IS RUN BY A MORON
....
Had they put out a single offering.. same size and form as Iphone.. they very well might be looking at an entirely different future today.
...
say goodnight palm
@obobo
so basically what you're saying is, if palm had put out an iphone they'd be in good standing? second question, why are you so angry?
HOW ABOUT RELEASING A NEW FORM FACTOR PALM??
HOW ABOUT A BIGGER SCREEN DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
And get rid of the freaky space lady and make a GOOD commercial.
GOD
There have been a lot of rumors that this company or that company might buy Palm... well I am going to throw my best guess out there...
DELL
They are flush with cash and have shown an interest in upping their acquisitions. They also are clearly interested in some kind of portable and/or mobile phone device and if they owned WebOS, they would have a very unique product with which to separate themselves from all the Android followers.
I personally would like to see Palm stay independent, but if they are going to get bought out, Dell might not be such a bad choice.
@HighestRanked2 Except Dell had the best PocketPC of the day before dumping it.
@HighestRanked2
Dell doesn't NEED expertise in developing a mobile OS - that's what Palm is for if they chose to buy them.
And please name ONE company that has been able to truly compete with the success of the iPod (specifically in terms of sales). MS's new Zunes (or maybe some Sony device) might be in 2nd place, but even they are a distant 2nd. That's not a really fair comparison to call Dell out on that one.
And I am not necessarily trying to defend Dell, I am simply stating that they seem to be in a M&A mode and flush with cash according to some recent BusinessWeek articles. And they clearly want to get back into more unique products, rather than simply being just another PC-maker.
@HighestRanked2 what are you saying? Dell wouldn't need expertise in developing the platform if they acquired Palm. That's the point of buying companies, you get their products and their experts...
They're pretty much done. Android is really ripping the market away from them.
@Mike777 Outside of the geeks, I really don't see many people out there in the "real world" using Android devices. Google has created so much confusion in the market with all its iteration of Android that it's becoming the new Symbian. I live and work in downtown Chicago so I like to think I have a good feel for what devices are being used. In my opinion, Palm and Google have a ton of ground to make up on the WinMo/Blackberry's/iPhones of the world. Google though may be a percent or two above Palm in the grand scheme of OS marketshare, but I don't think Android is "ripping the market away" from them.
@daving313
You're in denial. Based on info here on Engadget from the last 2 days, more Android phones are sold in one week than Palms in a quarter. I went in all the 3 major cellphone providers flagship shops in Berlin, Germany a few weeks with my girlfriend and asked what phone she liked the best: HTC Magic. Every provider has multiple Android phones. I tried to steer her to a Hero, but no luck. She chose the Magic. At the O2 store where 3 or 4 Pres are prominently displayed as the first phone, in the 3 times I went in there, not one time did anyone even pick up a Pre. Palm's days are numbered.
I'm a previous Blackberry, WinMo, Android, iPhone user....now on the Pre. Unlike the other fanboys, I've actually used each operating system. webOS is leaps and bounds above what others have put on the table (for my usage). Blackberry, loved your e-mail and battery life, that's about it. You felt more like a dumbphone with e-mail and calendar. WinMo...nuf said. Android, you just felt too geeky like I was running a dual boot with Linux, just not stable and not for "Joe Consumer". iPhone...wow, you made a huge splash in my life. But I felt so silo'ed in your environment. webOS has huge potential, and it sounds like from reading the comments here (and across the interwebs), once Palm has the right hardware, this is going to be a hot product. If they put a bigger screen on the Pixi, but same form factor, and same guts as a 3GS....That would have been my pick for best phone on the market, easily.
Use webOS and a Palm device for a few days before passing judgement. Too often people make up their minds for the few minutes they've played with a store model touched by hundreds of people all day everyday. The unfortunate thing for Palm and other smaller contenders, this is where "Joe Consumer" makes his decision, not in the tech blogs.
@daving313
store employees persuading buyers to choose an android based phone rather than a webOS based phone doesn't help either
You have one last try.
@Wesscoast if apple were to sue palm, there wouldn't be an iphone anymore...
To be fair I really do like WebOS better than Android, but more on a Nexus One style handset minus the track ball.
I know it's been echoed several times already, but WebOS itself is a killer operating system. It blows everything else out of the water IMO. And I kinda like the basic form factor of the Pre too. However, because I mostly use my smartphone for web browsing, those large, high resolution screens on some WinMo and Android devices are a rather potent lure.
Sup Bono?
*crickets
@laze totally agree, from winmo to blackberry. You couldn't pay me to go back. And android is a fragmented mess and getting worse.
The Pre itself feels like it was made by fisher price. Haven't played with the supposedly revamped hardware on the pre plus but the sprint version was built awful. I went through 6 of them in 6 months. 4 of which the earpiece went out and the others touch screen quit working. I would never buy anything built Palm again.
Dont get me wrong, webOS is the supperior os right now (in my oppinion, not a fan of android) but I have no faith in their phone building. I'd also take any on screen keyboard over the pre's keyboard. I think they designed for women because no guys hands can comfortably type on it and I have small fingers.
Probably the worst built phone ever made and they marketed it as an iPhone killer. Please...
@SickOfShitPhones Thats funny, I went through 1 (Well techincally three because the refurbished POS's Sprints TEP insurance company passed off on me didn't work right from the box, but I blame them for that).
The Keyboard is more a nailboard. I type fine with my thumbnail tips.
My gripe is they went for thin and sleek, which sacrificed battery life, and makes it hard to hold sometimes when open. Wish people would be more obsessed with DURABLE instead of thin and sleek. A metal lower section, thicker, blockier. You know, like one of those Verizon waterproof phones, but in Pre format.
where is the palm pre plus GSMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?????????????
We want it !!!!!!!!!
@Phantom Pain
This. I picked up a Pre back in August and still enjoy it as much as I did the day I got it, if not more due to the new features that have been added and the growth of the homebrew/patch community. Ever since the rumors of the HTC Supersonic and the announcement of the Nexus One launching on Sprint, I've been craving something more than what my Pre offers. I want a bigger screen so I can enjoy the 3D games made with Palm's PDK without having my fingers cover up the entire screen as well as a 1ghz processor like all the big boy phones lately. As tempting as those Android offerings are, I LOVE WebOS and really don't want to leave it for Android unless I absolutely have to. And as much as I love using my Zune HD, WP7 lacks too many features I take for granted in WebOS. (awesome multitasking, multiple ways to get apps, copy and paste)
I don't really think dual gesture areas would be a very good idea, as just one gesture area on the current crop of WebOS devices seems to confuse average customers enough already. All Palm needs to fix with the next device is the build quality and battery life. Also, marketing, marketing, marketing. When shown in person by someone who actually knows the ins and outs of it, WebOS pretty much sells itself. All my iPhone buddies complain about their phone whenever I pull out my Pre, and I pretty much always get questions about it as Palm, Sprint, and Verizon have done such a terrible job of promoting Palm products.
Here's hoping Palm releases a real winner by August so I don't have to surrender to Android.
You can tell how much Verizon screwed Palm when the argument that the pre was a girly phone became prevalent after their dumb ass marketing campaign.
aww man. palm needs to get back on their game. they need to release a phone that utilizes everything webOS has to offer. good hardware and software, good battery, etc...
come on palm, get back on your game!
Did Engadget ever put Palm on death watch? Now might be a good time.
it could have possibly been a contender because it would be a good smartphone for a good price
who knows?
@ EVERYONE READING COMMENTS !?!?!??!?!??!?!?!
Many people say they are impressed with web OS, and yet how many of those people actually bought the phone? I remember hearing Josh make comments multiple times about how he really likes what Palm did with their phone OS. So Josh, did you reward their good work by purchasing the phone and using it?
No?
It is an interesting thing, what people say they like, and what they actually buy and use. It is sort of like that video of the engadget trailer where like 95% of the laptops in the trailer were mbps. When it comes to spending their own money, they buy macs, whatever else they may say. And so it goes with the Pre.
What is it then about the Pre for those who say they like the device, but did not buy one? I really am curious. For what it is worth, I do not think the shape and aesthetic design of the pre looks as good as the iphone or an htc device, that shape with the curves looks less impressive and sleek to me. I suspect that is part of the hesitation that stunts the rational analysis of what the phone can do against more emotional impulses that say an iphone has in its favor in terms of design. But who knows, just curious.
@tybert7 I bought one the day they came out. And for a while, I was all about recommending them to people. But I don't think I would recommend one now (definitely not the Sprint Pre). Hardware issues are really bad. Everyone I know that has one has some big problem with the hardware. My friend's Pre has a huge gap in between the two halves (seriously probably 3/16"). His wife's Pre has a gigantic crack spreading from the USB port. It's spreading out into the screen, but Sprint won't replace it unless they pay the deductable ($100) so they're just holding onto them. And they both said they love the phone but the hardware is shit.
I've gotten over the severe lack of apps, but I can't handle the battery and the overall cheapness of the phone. I'm a huge fanboy of this phone, but man it really disappoints me from a build quality perspective. About a week ago, my speaker blew out. I don't ever use the speaker for anything other than ringtones, but it still blew out. So that's cool.
I want a nice slab design, with a great software keyboard. And if they wanted to fix copy & paste I wouldn't complain either (I can never remember how to do it, because it's not very user friendly).
So give me a bigger screen, a better battery, MUCH more storage (I'm thinking minimum 32 GB), a faster processor, and make it so it doesn't feel like a flimsy piece of crap. Then we can talk. Then I can proudly whip this beast out in front of people. Give me a phone that people can see and ask about and say "I saw that in a commercial and it looked really cool." That's what I want.
And Palm can fire their advertising agency and get someone who knows how to sell a damn phone. Ditch the mom stuff. Get a commercial that CLEARLY shows off that it can multitask. Or one that shows people webOS' notification system. Or synergy. Or one that really demonstrates how elegant the experience is.
And in Josh's defense, on the Meet the Editors page, he has a Pre listed as one of his three favorite gadgets.
I don't really have much choice right now. The Pre wasn't available through Verizon at the time I purchased my current phone. Now I've got a contract that isn't set to expire for another year, and buying the Pre straight out would be rather costly.
This isn't a surprise, when the pre came out, it was plagued with quality issues, and not to mention the iTunes sync situation. Why would such a large company go through the pain of finding a backdoor to sync with itunes just to stick it to apple? This is a huge company, not a bunch of junior high school kids.
That aside, WebOS was quite impressive, and i think stylistically it looked way better than Android. Last year though, Android phones became sleeker and cooler, while Palm kinda stayed the same,
$20 million loss isn't the worst thing, considering that there are reports that sales of the Pre Plus are increasing on Verizon...i think the move that will kills off Palm is a Verizon iPhone...that would just destroy the company...not that the iphone is better or worse, but considering the lack of marketing as it is, with an iphone it would just be way low...i have tried most of the phones on verizon and the pre right now is exceeded by none.
I am writing this from my Pre Plus. I have been waiting for the iPhone on Verizon for whhat feels like forever but I am not holding my breath anymore. I LOVE the Pre. It is a great device, would like the bigger screen and non slide open keyboard but other than that it really doesn't leave all that much to be desired for me. UI is great, multi tasking is awesome, haven't had a storage issue yet but I don't use it for music.
If the iPhone came to verizon tomorrow I don't know if I would even want it anymore
oh come on Nokia, buy them already
GO TEAM!!!
please?
Palm's current webOS hardware is a joke! WebOS is good but my Palm Pre device is like a cheap toy. I'm on my 3rd replacement because my phone keeps cracking on the side. I hate the tiny keypad, the screen should be wider, the camera has no zoom, & the Pre is lacking simple navigational function. It would be sweet if Palm would stop playin around and just put webOS into a device designed similar to the Android phones. Palm get it together! Your customers deserve better quality!
I hope Palm can turn these results around. The Pre is definitely the best phone i've ever had. Webos is amazing. The one thing lacking is a decent app store
Okay I thought I understood all this quarter stuff but "which represents a 23 percent uptick from Q2 2010" lost me here. I thought the year was divided into 3 month quarters, so when did the second quarter of 2010 begin, and what quarter are we in now that Palm can improve over Q2?
Palm os is very slow