I believe people have a right to choose what browser they use, but I still don't see an issue with having IE bundled with Windows. Get back to me when the EU forces Apple to do the same with Safari, until then this is bullshit in my eyes.
For the record, I do use Firefox, and I quite hate IE, but this is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen forced onto a company. Next they'll make them stop incorporating WMP. Or maybe even the windows explorer, I mean afterall there ARE alternatives to it. Where does it end exactly?
@Prevacator Personally, I'd prefer a similar approach to WMP because I'm still holding grudges against MS when they did all the DRM stuff with WMP to begin with. Forcing upgrades in order to get new content, though I think sometimes the source of the video is to blame in those cases. I've always found it bad enough what measures the RIAA took. The DMRA (if I have the acronym correct) is the biggest joke to fair use and ownership of media content in the history of US congress. Anyone cozying up in bed these industry leaders really, really pisses me off.
@Prevacator Actually the - cough, cough, cough - in the EU comission did...
Ever heard of the "N Versions" of Vista? They are without Windows Media Player...
On the same note I want punishment for Toyota - it is impossible to change the stereo... this principle can be applied to any company - and honestly, I'd just close up shop in such a situation... maybe Microsoft should... or withdraw from Europe and see this here collapse...
@DetlevCM A very different principle when Toyota, from your example, doesn't actually produce the stereos and they don't own 90+% of the local market share. Additionally, I don't see IE being important enough for MS to just boycott such a huge market.
@Prevacator I guess, EU feed on the blood of MS. Chrome/FF no doubt the best in class, but stock browser never hurts. I use IE all the time(to download Chrome and Firefox).
@Prevacator Before Windows 7 there was no easy way to uninstall IE and before Vista it was required for updating your OS. In OS X, Safari is included, but can be removed. This is why the EU isn't crawling over Apple like they are Microsoft.
@Prevacator One way to neutralize EU on their BS is to sell Windows via China -- if you find my Windows is not playing fair, the same to your Airbus, is that understood?
@Prevacator I agree with you for the most part, but bringing down IE makes for a better internet. If MS kept up and stuck with standards I wouldnt really care them being on top. But they aren't, they honestly just cripple and slow down web development.
We'd all be better off if IE didnt exist. Pulling it down to obscurity is our only real option though. I just hope it works out.
@rocketsfan20 May be an old Toyota. I have a 1999 Nissan Pathfinder and I was grateful I can change the stock stereo to something more useful. Every time I look at the stereo of any recent car, Toyota, Honda etc, I shudder at the thought of their developing a fault, not to talk of changing them to something more useful.
"maybe Microsoft should... or withdraw from Europe and see this here collapse..." there are more customers in European community than in the USA so I don´t think withdrawing would be a wise business decision.
@Prevacator You do understand why Microsoft is being punished and Apple is not, correct? It's not the bundling that's the problem, it's using bundling to abuse a monopoly (Windows) and extend it to other areas (web browsing).
You're welcome to the opinion that Microsoft does not have a monopoly, and/or that this does not constitute abuse of a monopoly; frankly by the time this decision came down it was already looking a bit outdated and pointless.
However, there is a very valid and legitimate reason that Microsoft is facing this scrutiny and Apple is not.
I am not sure about the US but in Europe you can put any stereo you like in a toyota (or any other car for that matter) you just need a blanking plate to cover the gap left by the factory installed stereo. The stereos still generally use the same form factor behind the dash.
as a few other people on this thread have tried to point out to you ... you don't understand how antitrust laws work ... otherwise you wouldn't saying that this applies to Apple. wikipedia has a very good, simple definition. It's well worth a read, some say ignorance is bliss, but really not worth publicising it on forums, imo.
Honestly if someone is stupid enough to not have IE on their PC as a backup they deserve the headache they have coming. IE is great for one thing.. when chrome firefox opera safari etc. stop working on my PC I have a fallback to download them again.
When they accidentally uninstall "this program called chrome" and are left without a way to get back on the internet I wonder how they will feel about this so called choice... The so called people who the EU aims to help are people who shouldnt be dicking around with their PC's in the first place and who shouldnt get choices.. the same people who open all email attachments and who run a browser with 5 weather.com toolbars.
@coolblue2000 And what about the CD Player? (which is about 20cm below the LCD for the Radio...) - the CD player's buttons below that... The "trip computer" that does things like average fuel consumption and speed? How will they work then?
@coolblue2000 I have never broken IE.. but then I dont use it enough to break it.. Ive had firefox crap out and chrome crap out.. when that happened I opened IE, downloaded firefox/chrome again.. If I didnt have IE to fall back on I would have been in a really bad position as a user.
And if I make my own little crappy browser do I get to be on the list as well? Perhaps we should vote for president and then vote for the browsers bundled with windows at the bottom of the ballot.
The trip computer display etc will obviously not work unless the stereo manufacturer supports it but we are talking about being able to swap out a radio not swap out all functionality (after all browsers offer different functions). The cd player and lcd position is to do with the face plate behind which you will most likely find a standard stereo slot.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
I believe people have a right to choose what browser they use, but I still don't see an issue with having IE bundled with Windows. Get back to me when the EU forces Apple to do the same with Safari, until then this is bullshit in my eyes.
For the record, I do use Firefox, and I quite hate IE, but this is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever seen forced onto a company. Next they'll make them stop incorporating WMP. Or maybe even the windows explorer, I mean afterall there ARE alternatives to it. Where does it end exactly?
@Prevacator
hopefully it ends with the atlantic to the east
@Prevacator Personally, I'd prefer a similar approach to WMP because I'm still holding grudges against MS when they did all the DRM stuff with WMP to begin with. Forcing upgrades in order to get new content, though I think sometimes the source of the video is to blame in those cases. I've always found it bad enough what measures the RIAA took. The DMRA (if I have the acronym correct) is the biggest joke to fair use and ownership of media content in the history of US congress. Anyone cozying up in bed these industry leaders really, really pisses me off.
@Prevacator it'd also be nice if Apple would open their search box to Bing as well. It's BS that it's limited to Google and Yahoo.
@Prevacator
They also stopped Windows Media Player, MSN Messenger, Movie Maker from being installed on some versions of windows
@Prevacator They already made them stop bundling WMP
@Prevacator
they already did that to WMP, i actually have a version of windows 7 (N) that didnt come with it...
@Prevacator
Actually the - cough, cough, cough - in the EU comission did...
Ever heard of the "N Versions" of Vista? They are without Windows Media Player...
On the same note I want punishment for Toyota - it is impossible to change the stereo... this principle can be applied to any company - and honestly, I'd just close up shop in such a situation... maybe Microsoft should... or withdraw from Europe and see this here collapse...
@DetlevCM A very different principle when Toyota, from your example, doesn't actually produce the stereos and they don't own 90+% of the local market share. Additionally, I don't see IE being important enough for MS to just boycott such a huge market.
@Prevacator I guess, EU feed on the blood of MS. Chrome/FF no doubt the best in class, but stock browser never hurts.
I use IE all the time(to download Chrome and Firefox).
@juanvaldez
Are you sure they don't make the stereos? They are 100% integrated...
But you are right about the marketshare.
However - MS didn't stop anybody from switching - and for example with Toyota you physically cannot switch to another radio.
I can use any browser - I just get IE as a default - but on a Toyota I must use their radio.
You can possibly extend this to a lot of products...
@Prevacator
Before Windows 7 there was no easy way to uninstall IE and before Vista it was required for updating your OS.
In OS X, Safari is included, but can be removed. This is why the EU isn't crawling over Apple like they are Microsoft.
@DetlevCM I have a toyota and I have a different stereo than what was originally installed
@Prevacator
One way to neutralize EU on their BS is to sell Windows via China -- if you find my Windows is not playing fair, the same to your Airbus, is that understood?
@Prevacator
It's a shame you don't read anything about antitrust laws. Then you wouldn't have so much bullshit in your eyes. !
@rocketsfan20
Well in our European Yaris Verso its impossible.
Maybe some older models allowed it - or maybe US models (?) allow it...
@Prevacator I agree with you for the most part, but bringing down IE makes for a better internet. If MS kept up and stuck with standards I wouldnt really care them being on top. But they aren't, they honestly just cripple and slow down web development.
We'd all be better off if IE didnt exist. Pulling it down to obscurity is our only real option though. I just hope it works out.
@rocketsfan20 May be an old Toyota. I have a 1999 Nissan Pathfinder and I was grateful I can change the stock stereo to something more useful. Every time I look at the stereo of any recent car, Toyota, Honda etc, I shudder at the thought of their developing a fault, not to talk of changing them to something more useful.
@DetlevCM
"maybe Microsoft should... or withdraw from Europe and see this here collapse..." there are more customers in European community than in the USA so I don´t think withdrawing would be a wise business decision.
@Prevacator
You do understand why Microsoft is being punished and Apple is not, correct? It's not the bundling that's the problem, it's using bundling to abuse a monopoly (Windows) and extend it to other areas (web browsing).
You're welcome to the opinion that Microsoft does not have a monopoly, and/or that this does not constitute abuse of a monopoly; frankly by the time this decision came down it was already looking a bit outdated and pointless.
However, there is a very valid and legitimate reason that Microsoft is facing this scrutiny and Apple is not.
Apple has a
@t2af
It's like you have no idea what you're talking about.
@DetlevCM
I am not sure about the US but in Europe you can put any stereo you like in a toyota (or any other car for that matter) you just need a blanking plate to cover the gap left by the factory installed stereo. The stereos still generally use the same form factor behind the dash.
@Prevacator
as a few other people on this thread have tried to point out to you ... you don't understand how antitrust laws work ... otherwise you wouldn't saying that this applies to Apple. wikipedia has a very good, simple definition. It's well worth a read, some say ignorance is bliss, but really not worth publicising it on forums, imo.
Honestly if someone is stupid enough to not have IE on their PC as a backup they deserve the headache they have coming. IE is great for one thing.. when chrome firefox opera safari etc. stop working on my PC I have a fallback to download them again.
When they accidentally uninstall "this program called chrome" and are left without a way to get back on the internet I wonder how they will feel about this so called choice... The so called people who the EU aims to help are people who shouldnt be dicking around with their PC's in the first place and who shouldnt get choices.. the same people who open all email attachments and who run a browser with 5 weather.com toolbars.
@Donloki
What happens when IE stops working?
@coolblue2000
And what about the CD Player? (which is about 20cm below the LCD for the Radio...) - the CD player's buttons below that...
The "trip computer" that does things like average fuel consumption and speed?
How will they work then?
Or am I missing something....??
@coolblue2000 I have never broken IE.. but then I dont use it enough to break it.. Ive had firefox crap out and chrome crap out.. when that happened I opened IE, downloaded firefox/chrome again.. If I didnt have IE to fall back on I would have been in a really bad position as a user.
And if I make my own little crappy browser do I get to be on the list as well? Perhaps we should vote for president and then vote for the browsers bundled with windows at the bottom of the ballot.
@DetlevCM
The trip computer display etc will obviously not work unless the stereo manufacturer supports it but we are talking about being able to swap out a radio not swap out all functionality (after all browsers offer different functions). The cd player and lcd position is to do with the face plate behind which you will most likely find a standard stereo slot.
@UnixSystemsEngineer
What makes web browsers so special?
What if the makers of text editors wanted a ballot to get their software onto Windows to replace Notepad?
Notepad++, PSPad, NoteTab, EditPad, ConText, etc...
There are tons of companies who make similar software to that which comes with Windows.