In case you hadn't heard, there's a PlayStation 3 firmware update coming this Thursday that'd
knock out the "install other OS" option and remove any currently-installed non-PS3 platform. Our guess is it's not going to affect the majority of owners, but the diehard users are certainly up in arms, and no one
really likes losing a feature, even if it's rarely used. Leave it to
Geohot, then, to right the wrong. Arguably the reason for Sony's reversal (see:
PS3 exploit), the famed hacker has published not only a letter of sorrow at the company (unsurprising), but also a call for users not to update. Instead, he claims he will "look into a safe way of updating to retain OtherOS support" and issued a tech-savvy threat about "touching the CFW," much to the company's chagrin (trust us, you don't even want to
know what he's talking about here -- far too scary). We wouldn't normally say a war's brewing, but ol' George Hotz has proven himself more than capable at starting something fierce.
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in!]
posted March 29th 2010 10:04PM
Sony you need all the goodwill you can get. Don't alienate this small but savvy PS3 fan community.
@To Hell
Agreed. This is a PR nightmare for Sony, they had better undo this as soon as possible.
Either retract this, or release that minis SDK for free immediately.
It may not be used that much now, but in the future there could have been a ps3 specific distro that lets you install/run Linux only using the ps3 controller.
@To Hell This will be iPhone jailbreaking all over again. A game of cat and mouse, updates and work arounds. Not what I would want.
@Extinction
A PR nightmare?? Surely you jest! Very few people use this function. MOST people who bought an original PS3 did so for the backwards compatibility; not to put on linux. There is a small niche of geeks, myself included, that appreciate the ability to do this- but a PR nightmare? No. Receive the support from Sony because a handful of users demand it back? Not. Gonna. Happen.
@think before you react
sadly this is true, but if geohot gets far enough then linux will be able to run in ways in shouldnt and likely by then he will have a custom firmware that allows ps3 and linux use so woot if it ever comes.
i tried linux early on and didnt like how i couldnt get the video to work in a higher resolution after entering the different screen codes
@think before you react Agreed. Maybe 500 guys are going to be upset and that's not a lynch mob.
@think before you react
It wasn't a PR Nightmare until the blog post hit 1500 posts, and is now at this time close to 2000. That is alot more than the 500 pointed out by the person a couple comments down below. But now it IS a PR Nightmare, Everyone who reads this will tell others and the blog and their twitter is full. Forums ablaze worldwide so Yes it is and will be a huge PR Nightmare. Only if... If it isn't a Big April Fool's Day Joke.
Again Sony would be making themselves look tremendously bad. If a response to geohot about Him gaining access, well then there will be others who follow. Especially now.
Homebrew on the psp, garnered another large niche group of users that previously would not have bought a North American PSP due to LACK OF USABLE FEATURES. A CFW PSP gives opportunities for people to really express themselves creatively. Many great programs and home made games have been released over the past Five years.
Hey Sony; Where's the PSP GPS and Camera for the USA and Canada, you promised Three years ago?
@SOOPERGOOMAN
lol. You're measuring the impact on the PS3 because of the amount of hits it receives?
I can see it now!! Here on Fox news: an Engadget post hit 2000 views due to Sony's withdraw of support for Linux home brew OS installations!! Rioting has caught like a wildfire, young people united under Linus Torvalds are marching down the streets with AK-47's screaming down with SONY!
I like my Linux OS on my PS3 and even I'm yawning on this post.
Sorry Soopergooman, of the few fans that that MAY get upset about this, even fewer will do anything about it. The tech geeks that'll spread the news to others will be met with the response- "The PS3 used to be able to have Linux installed?" followed by- "What's Linux?" or "Did you read what [insert name] wrote on Twitter?"
@To Hell
The real fear I have with a hacked PS3 isn't people pirating games, its the cheaters and hackers. Bogus trophies, people coming into online games ruining it for the everyone else. This is the real problem.
As far as OtherOS, I installed and used Linux on the PS3 back when I first got my PS3. I still have 10GBs of my 60GB HDD dedicated to it (I've tried YellowDog, Ubuntu on it). But its close to useless unless you were a Cell developer. 256MB RAM, no access to RSX, and its hard enough finding PPC builds and compatibility for software. Even my cheap old netbook runs Linux FAAAAR better then the PS3.
As a Linux device there are cheaper more functional options available. Even using Cell as a number cruncher isn't really worth it anymore considering how fast processors and GPGPUs have come since the PS3 was released.
Either way, even this near useless feature like OtherOS would have been around if it wasn't hacked.
@think before you react Sony's blog post on this firmware update currently has more than two *thousand* comments, almost universally negative minus a few rabid fanboys who'd probably defend Sony if they removed the ability to play *games* from the system. (An average blog post there gets 20 to 30 comments.) And those are just the people that comment - rule of thumb is for every commenter, there are at least 100 readers that don't comment. On the PlayStation blog, that number's probably higher, because you need to have a PSN account to post there, but not to read.
And that's only one site. Then there's Engadget, there's Kotaku, there are all the other gaming sites out there. Kotaku's post on this was up to 860 comments last I checked.
Add it all up and yes, it is a PR nightmare. They are alienating their core base of users. This is not just about people who have Linux installed, this is about people who have stuck with Sony, who bought the PS3 maybe even at launch, paid a lot of money for it, and are now watching Sony take away one of the features that they have promoted and actually continue to promote even tonight. (http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html)
Because we know that the question is "what's next?" Is Sony going to remotely gimp the Blu-Ray playback because the PS3's cannibalizing their standalone player sales? Are they going to start charging for PSN access? If they can take away an entire feature of the system after you've bought and paid for it, then they can do anything they want.
@SOOPERGOOMAN
It's not a PR nightmare. The 99.9% of people who couldn't care less about Linux actually...well...do NOT care! The wast majority actually bought the PS3 to play games and BD's. To those, the Linux dual boot is just a unnecessary feature that they can just as well be without.
@badasscat
Im sorry but some ppl like you think that the small minority of ppl should be running the company and making all the rules. Sorry but the world does not revolve around you. I post alot on the many sony forums and find that only the Hardcore players have a say in things, when in fact you dont and never have. Sony has and will still have all the control on the products they make. You can say you a million features in every sony product but at the end of the day sony will put something out that eventuly some ppl wont like because it lacked a certain feature.
But as a company Sony has every right to protect its IP and if they want to cut off support to one of those features then so be it. If you want to use said feature, then dont update, that is all. But if you want to play any of the newer games and use other newer future features then you update.
Kinda like the argument over the psp and psp go. Ppl kept arguing that sony would not put out a psp with no umd drive, and sony made the psp go and ppl freaked out to the point of wanting to boycott sony to make a seperate umd drive to download the games they had on umd. Sony said no...and ppl just moved on.
Well here i guess we will just move on.
I don't know how small this community is. I've run Linux on the system since day 1 as my main PC. 5 of my other friends do the same.
A lot of other people on PSN also do the same that I know of.
If this really is as a result of this geohot guy than a big f u from all PS3 linux users out there. Damn 'hackers' should get a real hobby.
Doesn't excuse Sonys pathetic actions. I've posted on both blogs protesting, but they never listen cause they are the all powerful Sony & they will tell us what we want & what to do!
Damn big corporations.
@Able You only forget one thing.. those 'few' people are more dedicated people.. And trust me, dedicated people can make it pretty hard for Sony if you take something away from them..
Now the war is on for really cracking the PS3, which attracks more and more dedicated hackers as now the 'fun' really starts for them..
So in the end by removing this option the gamer is screwed.. You have to think on the long-run not short-run.. Removing this option doesn't do anything against what people have found and are using, also as geohotz himself states, the current hack requires a hardwarealteration and still is difficult to achieve which is beyond any regular (or even a more advanced) user.
And Sony doesn't have the right to remove something after a consumer has bought a device (at least in a lot of countries like the Netherlands).. Also by not being able to update they prevent me from using my PS3 for the other stuff like gaming, and that certainly is against any EULA (at least in my country) which makes the EULA void..
@To Hell
Ohh, the Sony hate, most people here don't use Linux or even own a PS3 for that matter, but they can't miss this opportunity to flame.
Just F*** off.
@(Unverified) I own a PS3 and I don't use Linux on it, but I'm actually quite wary about updating to get rid of the feature. If the PS3 owners decide to write a petition or make some noise, I'd glad to be on it.
The PS2 was the biggest console ever, and it got there with the modchips and whatnots. The PS3 has been a fairly open platform that seemed like it would stay that way.
I'm not sure if the money Sony will save by stalling piracy for a year will outweigh the loss of customers from the 'geek' community, the ones that pre-ordered their 60GB PS3s or were at least early adopters that were in part responsible for the console's success.
Also, with blu-ray burners/discs prices so high, even if there was a hack it wouldn't be taken too seriously since most (older) games aren't that expensive to begin with.
meh.
For those that decided to get PS3s for number crunching as an array of cheap linux boxes, this doesn't hurt them at all because they don't care about running games.
I saved the current firmware and if I ever tire of playing the PS3, I plan to wipe it, install linux and call it a day.
This is such a niche insider issue - its like everyone on engadget and joystiq getting excited about the ad about rumor leaks - mainstream consumers don't get it. They don't care about otherOS, they don't drool over news about E3, they don't even know that the Move was the Arc was the Wand.
My guess is that Sony is looking at further cost reductions on the PS3 and that by removing otherOS, they can trim some costs. Who are they competing with? XBox. Does XBox have otherOS? No. Does it move the meter? Probably not. Its no big deal except for 1% of the buyers.
@Able I do agree that the pulling of Other OS support is not a major issue that will affect a large percentage of PS3 users. The PR nightmare is more in the fact of going forward what will Sony deem unnecessary and remove next from the PS3, PSP, or the next version of the hardware. Frankly they don't have a whole lot left to remove that is not core to a next gen console for the PS3. Put at this point its a running gag on what they have removed so far through hardware and/or software revision. The PS3 has lost hardware and software backwards compatibility, 2 USB ports, a set of card readers, and soon the option to install linux. The PSP was revised to drop its primary game media format. At this point it would not be completely unheard of for Sony announce their plans to remove blu-ray movie playback support from the PS3....for security purposes of course.
@To Hell I don't have linux installed on my 80gb (software compat) but I had at one point planned on it. I installed a 500gb drive and planned on putting 100 towards linux and 400 towards ps3.
now i'm not using it so it doesn't irk me as much, but i don't like having features removed.
it's like if your HDTV suddenly decided to remove the coaxial cable input from the machine design. sure 90% of the people don't use it, but what if you wanted to play sega genesis or something? av adapters are easy to come by for those things. I know hdtvs aren't the best for old games but it is still the same thing
@badasscat
I have been promoting our stance over at the Playstation Blog.
There is a greater reason behind the uproar, other than "Sony is doing us wrong"
This will open up other companies to do what they want, and I am very much against that.
I have been an avid supporter of Sony since 1989 buying Cassette players, CD Boomboxes, Shelf Units, Minidisc players, Cell Phones, Car Stereos CD recorders, Receivers, VCR's, and the now infamous Playstation Brand.
The fact is, Sony touted the OtherOS feature before the PS3 was built, placed it on their packaging, Contracted Terra Soft to create Yellow Dog Linux for the PS3, have support of this ability on their PS3 Open Platform website, and now have decided that they can remove it.
Based on the fact that I have gathered my receipt for purchasing Yellow Dog Linux for PS3, which I purchased 1 month before I actually even GOT a PS3, I will be at the front line of a class-action lawsuit to prevent a company from getting away with bait-and-switch marketing.
I will not let a Corporation that I have made revenue for get away with this type of business practice. Sony will not make decisions for me.
Thanks for updating everyone on our stance.
Go Geohot I believe in you!
@Xent
Thanks. I will deliver.
@GeoHot
Even geohot not only reads but comments on engadget^_^
@GeoHot
Dude I have a 4 year old U.S PS3 I haven't updated from the original firmware... Please crack this thing open so I can play MKV's, Japanese PS1 & 2 games and emulators on it. I could care less about playing pirated game backups. Nowadays (especially with the complexity and levels of sophistication new games require) these developers put so much hours of work into games, probably more than Hollywood studios put into film, that it would be a shame and crime not to pay for them! I will gladly pay 60 bucks for such intense levels of detail and hours worth of cinematic epic gaming experience.
All hail Geohot!
*humbly bows*
@GeoHot
What do you think the ETA would be on a 'fix'?
And how would you go about making it that we could still access playing on PSN without updating?
Also is it possible to make a downgrade for firmware without having the ability to use the OtherOS feature?
I really want to keep the feature and be apart of the exploits that are going to come later, but I also need to play BfBC2.
@Xent
yes he's our only hope now.
Go Geohot! Drop it like it's hot!
@maattp
lol thats perfect you are saying go geohot and you have a picture of steve jobs oh the irony!
Someone needs to start paying this dude, seriously.
@Gordonator
He is shadowing with google!
@Gordonator
Just as long as it's not Sony.
So how will I play my Modern Warfare 2 while I dont update and Geohot is working on a workaround?
@txbrandon
Buy a second PS3
@txbrandon Suck it up?
@forg0tmypen
Or update your PS3 and buy yourself a netbook. Better mobility of the linux you so obviously crave- and you can play MW2 immediately.
@txbrandon
.........................
This is an optional update. Sony's EU PS Blog reported that you are not required to update but may lose functionality after a while (Blu-Ray movies requiring new FW to play, etc)... So Geohot is looking for a way to update the system without removing OtherOS. Don't get worked up.
@txbrandon When first got MW2 I left my Ps3 on for weeks at a time with the game running so I could just jump right in and play whenever I wanted. I currently live with my cousin who shuts his off after regular use and he had to install the MW2 updates along with the system updates while I didn't have to since I was already running the game and connected to the internet. When I restarted my PS3 I'd have to update.
@txbrandon
I dunno, buy 360 and play it on there like you should have been doing from the start? You might find the competition on there a little too tough though so I wouldn't blame you if you didn't make the jump.
@High
Eh? I play it on the 360 and mostly I just get kids playing against me, I have to tell you though, these kids are good.
I know it's been 3+ years since the PS3s debut but let me tell you, if or when we finally see a CFW it will have been entirely worth the wait. Keep it up Geo!
Dear Sony: You have created your own worst enemy by taking away the very feature that stopped most people from hacking PS3 in the first place.
Hell hath no fury like a nerd scorned
@Extinction
It's not as easy as it was when all you had to do was buy a chip and solder it in. It was even easier when you didn't even need a chip like the slim line PS2 and swap magic. Now, with constant firmware updates to play games, you can try to burn Sony or brick your PS3 and increased the amount you are scorned. Your choice.
@Extinction
Precisely... who thinks like them? Let's stop the hackers, let's give them that much more reason to hack our system.
D o h !!!
Full Disclosure: I own a PS3 60GB CECHA01 which I had intended to install YellowDog onto for some 3dsmax rendering testing... but I got too busy and didn't get to it. Still have the download on my drive. Use Ubuntu now elsewhere... I still want the option because the PS3 is a computer first that can play games and Blu-ray disks.
as far as I am concerned he is the dick responsible for this....fuck him....those of us using Linux for LEGIT reasons are the ones getting shitted on
@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi
As far as I'm concerned, he has made my ipod touch many times more useful than Linux was on PS3, so I can't be angry at him.
Sony on the other hand, needs all the good PR they can get. This isnt the way to do it.
@Extinction im sorry but who "shitted on" you? i believe the correct term is "...reasons are the ones getting shit on"
@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi
You're just as ignorant as the back births attacking him on his blog.
@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi
You and everyone else razzing about Geohot are the barely technical users that try to impress other nerdy yet also barely technically competent friends don't realize how much Sony has been gimping OtherOS ever since it's inception.
Not to mention Sony's only reason for having this feature was trying to get the PS3 taxed as a personal computer rather than a gaming console, which blew up in their faces and whoosh goes the only reason to provide any decent and timely support for! Now that only a very small hole in hypervisor has been found, they figured it's cheaper to axe it rather than fix it. I wouldn't even be surprised if they had only one person running the open-source PS3 division just to answer minor questions for the past year or so.
@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi
Don't hate the player, hate the game!
I hope he hacks your computer and turns it into a bot, then makes it run a brute force attack against the U.S Playstation website!