Sprint, Clearwire among companies asking for TD-LTE standard in WiMAX spectrum
By Chris Ziegler 
posted March 30th 2010 6:19PM
posted March 30th 2010 6:19PM
Clearwire has made it crystal clear that it isn't taking a "WiMAX or die" approach to 4G -- and frankly, it couldn't afford to, considering that the infrastructure suppliers and hardware manufacturers could easily continue their trend toward shunning the next-gen underdog. What's interesting, though, is that the company now appears to be taking a very active role in developing an LTE-based standard that could supplant WiMAX in its 2.6GHz spectrum should the need arise. Along with Motorola, Huawei, ZTE, Cisco, Nokia Siemens, Alcatel-Lucent, and -- surprise, surprise -- Clearwire partner Sprint, the company is asking the 3GPP to define a standard for running TD-LTE in the 2.6GHz slot. Unlike the more commonly-used FD-LTE -- the standard Verizon is using, among others -- TD-LTE operates unpaired, meaning it can operate in slimmer chunks of spectrum than its counterpart. Asking for a standard is clearly a far cry from actually building out a network, but it's interesting to note that Clearwire and Sprint alike both have their eyes firmly fixed on an LTE-based technology if the WiMAX industry packs it in.
Standard Communications Tech. War time!
I bet Verizon is better
So Sprint's establishing Wimax across America and they already want LTE? Geez they're on fire aren't they? lol
@Fadakar
Still, its so very obvious that Verizon is better.
@cwalters74 It is, I've been a long term Sprint customer(my family's been with them for maybe 10 years) and as of recently, I figured that Sprint's progressing too slowly for me to enjoy them. Now that I'm 18, I was planning on switching to ATT for the iPhone since I love the OS so much. After having an iPod touch so long, I realize it truly is a mundane system, there's no freedom, and I don't play enough games on my iPod for me to have anymore more than my Hero has now. Android really is the way to go, and I'm super excited for the Evo and what Sprint has for us in the future.
@Fadakar Just a very smart move really
@kb24istrash lol maybe coverage wise. The second Sprint rolls out with the Evo 4g, VZW ain't got anything on Sprint's phone line up, and don't even get into pricing. Sprint is easily the best bang for your buck.
@Fadakar Actually WiMAX and LTE are extremely similar technologies. I think the only big difference is WiMAX is time division (TD), whereas LTE is frequency division (FD). So that is why they are asking the 3GPP to define a time division LTE standard so that Sprint would have very little to do to change to LTE.
@kb24istrash Could you elaborate on how that statement is true.
@Fadakar
They're just hedging their decision to support wimax. It makes business sense.
Sprint really does have it going on right now. The first 4G phone coming out soon (hopefully) and a great network. I've had Sprint for 7 years and am not planning on switching anytime soon, especially with the EVO on deck. Lets go Sprint!
@constablepete Here is to hoping they finally stop losing customers and start gaining them. They really are the best value telecom out there right now.
Who said infrastructure companies are shuning WiMax again?
Lucient said they wheren't investing any more into WiMax development, and why whould they since it's being deployed?
WiMax is deployed accross the world, LTE is still a glimmer in carrier's eyes.
Never could understand all the Hate on engadget against sprint. Oh well.
@dataninja
The problem is that USA is not leading the world any more. Better cheaper more efficient technology is developed and deployed elsewhere. It would be unwise for US carriers to carry the burden of developing their own non compatible network.
Ask yourself, why was the US the last western country with a working cell network (if you can call it working now), why is USA in the bottom of the charts when it comes to broadband speeds in households?
You don't have to learn another language to understand there is a bigger world out there than Sprint vs AT&T.
@MartenKL lol we have never led the world in cellphone service.. its always been europe or japan. right now we are an average 4 years behind japan
I've got no dog in this fight, but I still don't see why tech pundits insist on calling the technology with a one year head-start "the underdog".
@Conquistador Momentum. Virtually every other carrier in North America and Europe has committed to LTE as its next-gen strategy.
@Conquistador
Because being first to market (Dreamcast), and equivalence or superiority in tech (HD-DVD) unfortunately don't guaranty success. It's the boardroom deals that make a given technology sink or swim. While Wimax has greater deployment to date, LTE has more pledged support, which makes it the front runner for the farther reaching future (the acronym stands for Long Term Evolution after all).
Mind you, I'm not saying LTE is better or will end up being the dominant technology, but the current situation makes that outcome a very real possibility, since there aren't any huge technical advantages between Wimax and LTE...
@OddManOut -- Well stated, I think the differentiator could well be pricing. Verizon will likely be the first and most widely deployed LTE network. Even with today's technology, they usually price higher than their competition. With their CEO on record talking about how unlimited broadband pricing is not sustainable -- if Sprint/Clear can maintain their current price points, Wimax will thrive regardless of wireless protocols.
Let's just get some 4G into Indianapolis so I have one more reason to get the EVO.
WiMax could be used as a data backhaul instead of the old 2G/3G networks for up and coming LTE networks
Also, one technology was developed by engineers with data in mind... and the other was developed by telecommunications companies with voice in mind, and really fast data as a bonus.
Screw AT&T and Verizon, I'll side with Google, Comcast, Time Warner and WiMax
@lolcopter That's categorically untrue. It was only in the last few months that a consortium of carriers has started to congeal around a standard for sending voice over LTE, but it's still going to be a good long while before we see it in production. LTE's most definitely a data-first technology.
@lolcopter
+1 to you sir. Yes, & that is why Clear is branding wimax as a replacement for home internet cable or dsl as well as mobile broadband. For the price & bundle of the pick 2 or 3 or whatever it's a damn good deal & most people wouldn't see a drop in their home internet since it hooks right up to your current wireless router. Only people playing online games would hate it bc of latentcy. (which sprint kills everyone in response time mobile-wise fyi, last time I checked) But, according to my buddy, whose a huge WoW player, Comcast's cable internet is horrible w latancy too... So it's not like that's even a given advantage! I don't play online games so it wouldn't be as big an issue for me...
@lolcopter doesn't wimax have a 802.xx spec? That alone tells me why I prefer it over lte (which I believe does not)
@jagowar -- yep, wimax is IEEE 802.16
@Chris Ziegler -- point conceded. i was being a bit hyperbole-ey
regardless, it will be at least a year or two before we can do direct comparisons of the technologies. should be interesting!
@jagowar Does it really matter which standards body created it? GSM and CDMA were not ratified as a standard by the IEEE. Rather, they were created under the GSM Association and CDMA Developers Group. Similarly, UMTS and CDMA are governed by the 3GPP and 3GPP2, respectively. LTE was created by both the 3GPP and 3GPP2 while WiMAX was created under the IEEE. Does this make either one better than the other? Most certainly not!
@aschettler When it comes to using data I would put more faith into the standards board who created wifi.... but thats me.
@KULawHawk Firstly WiMax as implemented currently does not qualify as a true 4G technology - look it up.
Secondly there is no way it could replace home internet. I tried it out at a Clearwire store and it is slow. I mean apart from noticeable latency it speedtested at 1.5Mbps. Try it yourself.
In any case that could not replace my home internet but maybe it would be good for a car. The prices are good too.
WiMax hardware is also very very similar to LTE. A WiMax to LTE switch isn't exactly hard, time-consuming, or expensive.
Might I remind everyone that Verizon used CDMA/EVDO, which was the "underdog" technology, to build it's 3G network vs the widely popular GSM.
Verizon is the very example of why no one should dismiss WiMax.
4 mbps in the hand, beats 10 mbps (or whatever real life speed LTE brings) in the bush.
I've got Wimax with Clear now. Soon to be joined by an EVO on Sprint. I'll evaluate LTE if/when it finally comes around.
@KimH Not to mention that by the time LTE is first rolled out the next iteration of wimax will be ready and is quoting speeds of up to 100 mbps and will most likely already cover 200 million potential subscribers vs 150k.
@Trio2at
I believe Clearwire stated they didn't have plans to upgrade to 802.16m to at least 2012. But yeah, that could bring theoretical 120 Mbps down and 60 Mbps up.
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Clearwire-In-No-Rush-To-Test-WiMax-2-106473
Back haul will probably be the issue once more advanced wireless standards become reality.
Wow! If Wimax is on shaky ground; then whats going through the minds of investors like Google and Comcast who've invested in Sprint/Clear? I think Clear needs to diversify its product. Stop advertising wimax as just a way to surf with a laptop. Create sub products to compliment its core.
I'm stuck with Sprint now and LOVE my Pre. Problem is, I live in the boonies outside of Houston. I'm glad Houston now has 4G but I would be very happy to get 3G out here. Also We don't get cable or DSL out here, so I use a Sprint data card on a cell wireless modem to connect. Therefore' the Sprint Airwave will not work either. I can not afford a signal repeater. I get a GREAT digital signal on my data card, but my phone signal bites.I have even offered to allow Sprint to put up a tower on my property free of charge. Not happening. :-( Sad!
@scrcmedic
Just tell them the only catch is that they have to run the same fiber internet that goes to the tower, to your house as well.
@chrisz
GSM telco's in Europe are switching to LTE? I must have missed that posting.
@littleroot Indeed they are. TeliaSonera already has a live network, and Telefonica/O2, Orange, Vodafone, and others are all running trials.
@littleroot the EU unilaterally blocked WiMax from it's frequencies
@JB9 Got it - I did not realize LTE was GSM-based
sprint is gonna take over the world!
This is simply proof once again that Sprint, and anything Sprint touches (aka Clearwire, Nextel, etc.) simply sucks.
@emaildejan What is this, 2004?! Sprint rocks! Maybe not then, but it does now. CS is better, and they have the best priced plans, unbeatable value. I save about $2000 a year over a comparable plan on any other provider. I'm taking Sprint to the bank, baby!
@PaulH
+1 for Sprint rocks. You forgot to mention that sprint has the second largest 3g network in the country, speeds that match or exceed those of Verizon/At&t and a network that is pretty much underutilized.
@thinkindependent and PaulH...
You guys are obviously forgetting the sheer mass exodus of post-paid customers, the drop in revenues, and the sheer collapse of the stock price. If Sprint were as great as you both claim, then the stock price should have been easily over $10/share. It's still under $4.00! Also, one does NOT lose over 8M post-paid subscribers if one is so cheap and provides such great service. Trust me...this company is run by morons!
There are already manufacturers making radios that are wimax/lte compatible. It will only make sense to have an lte standard for the 2.5 ghz band because, eventually, there will have to be one standard for all this stuff so we don't have to worry about where our phones and computers will or will not work.
This is the new Sprint being smart.. Versus the old Sprint who just bought Nextel without worrying about how successful a successful network would be in the near future.. I still can't believe Sprint didnt really think thru what it would do about lack of 3g on Iden phones.. Then they made a few good iden/evdo phones then dropped it all togther.. That Moto i1 should have an evdo radio onboard would instantly make it one of the best android phones out (once it got eclair)..
could someone tell me from a tech point why LTE is better then wimax. Why is it that these companies are choosing LTE over wimax? I love sprint so whatever sprint uses is what I'll be using, but it would be nice to know what the actual difference is. I know that at first LTE will be slightly faster but when both get a rev. A they will both be at 100 mbps.
@rowehc As I understand it wimax is created by the same people who created wifi (it has a 802.xx standard as I posted above). LTE is created using traditional telecom equipment so its what they are more used to.