ARRI's ALEXA busts out native ProRes recording, plans for RED smiting
By Chad Mumm 
posted April 7th 2010 1:02PM
posted April 7th 2010 1:02PM
When you're shooting incredibly hi-res video with a camera like the RED ONE, you end up with extremely large and processing-heavy files that take a certain amount of finessing to play nice with your editing software. This post-processing can be taxing on both time and resources, both of which cost money and can break a production on a budget. The ALEXA allows you to record compressed 1080p footage in Apple's native ProRes 444 and ProRes 422 (HQ) QuickTime format to readily available SxS cards, which can be instantly ingested and edited in Final Cut with no transcoding necessary. What's more, the camera has the ability to dual record to a compressed format and to its higher-res, 2k ARRIRAW counterpart at the same time, allowing you to rapidly edit in the field and bring the big, high quality footage online later.
The ALEXA also boasts a super 35 CMOS Bayer sensor promising 13.5 stops of dynamic range and plenty of that buttery, out-of-focus shallow depth of field that you'd expect from a major motion picture camera. ARRI's also promises a host of expansion accessories for the camera, from storage modules and advanced recorders, to HD viewfinders and an exchangeable lens mount so you can use your DSLR lenses in addition to the big-time PL-mount movie lenses.
With some name directors in the field with this camera right now, we should be seeing plenty of footage in the very near future. RED has had a three-year head start in the space, but the movie industry is notoriously hard-headed about gear and we wouldn't be surprised to see even more films shot digitally now that there's a digicam with the word ARRI stamped on the side.
Chad Mumm is our video producer at Engadget, producing and directing The Engadget Show and filming shorter-form stuff when we need it.
Come on make one that is in the 5d Mark ii price range.
@techlord
Yes, and then make a Formula 1 car thats in an Acura's price range.
The 5D Mark II is high end, but this is for pro's.
I'm thinking young, sweaty nymphs frolicking before its lens, you?
@techlord You couldn't afford glass to put on the front or a workstation to online 2k footage anyway.
@Nitesh The 5D Mark II is for pros, but people tend to forget that the 5dmk2 a DSLR before it's a video camera.
Also, Pros use the 5D as well. It's not all about the hardware.
Again concept art from Unreal!
Odd they are targetting FinalCut Pro users. Anything serious uses Avid, especially for large projects.
@loadbang
haven't heard of Autodesk?
@loadbang
ProRes is not exclusively used in Final Cut.
@loadbang
"Anything serious uses Avid" Really??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_cut_pro#Major_films_edited_with_Final_Cut_Pro
@loadbang
While that statement might have been true a while ago, more and more post-production houses are doing their work in Final Cut. Avid made a huge mistake when they decided to alienate the Apple users, especially since so-called creative people generally trend towards Macs.
Add to that the fact that Avid systems are locked into using their large, proprietary hardware interfaces and there is another strike against Avid.
Whether it is a good thing or a bad thing, Final Cut is just a more cost effective way to go and nowadays more than ever, saving money is paramount.
@loadbang
You'll be surprised to find out how much market share and mind share FCP has been gaining on Avid, even in large productions.
@rydewnd2 Hey you know what films were edited with Avid? Every movie for the last two decades not on that list.
@loadbang
i've only ever seen AVID used in live sportscasting. Do some research before you talk. I've used and have seen FCP being used in everything from concerts to films.
@(Unverified)
Have more films been edited on Avid... Certainly. But the trend is definitely changing, especially amongst lower budget films. That being said No Country For Old Men by the Coen brothers was edited on Final Cut, along with other high profile films. So to say that no serious editors use FCP is ridiculous.
RED FTW!
'nuff said!
This is exactly the kind of thing I wished I had a need or budget for...
If I could have my early twenties again I'd have loved to study film making.
why are gadget blogs posting this
@sydcinema its a serious piece of kit and a full 35mm sensor answer shooting RAW video straight onto digital media. previously RED Cinema was the only one making relatively 'cheap' cameras of the sort.
@sydcinema
It uses electricity and is used by your hands. Therefore a gadget.
@bchanger there are tons of cameras that do this, and Red was not the first... they just had a great marketing guy behind it.
@sydcinema
Please name some that are in the same price range as Red and produce similar quality pictures.
@joe23521 Red's marketing department got to you, didn't they... You're drinking the Kool Aid like there's no tomorrow. A Red one camera has essentially the quality of a decent 2K camera (There are many out there, countless more to follow starting next week) but comes without anything to view it, record the footage, or even hold the goddamn thing unless you go and buy their proprietary equipment. I will admit though, it's a great marketing campaign.
Make this sub $30K, Red should be concerned.
This could make some old-time cinematographers consider going digital, given the trusted name vs. a new kid on the block in Red.
Side note, wasn't the D20, not D21, Arri's first digital cine cam?
@joe23521
New kid on the block or not, RED has BY FAR proven itself on stage! Noone can deny that, and at that price, RED is still cheaper for Indie films to start with. But ofcorse big blockbusters might just go with this because of its name and no worry about budgets..
@joe23521 concerned with what? Red's budget is a small fraction of Arris. Red can't even afford a booth at NAB, I don't care how their marketing department spun it. The company is barely above water financially.
@joe23521
They still need to turn a profit, y'know.
@abedinthehouse
I'm in no way dissing Red. I'm simply stating what I think the significance something like this could hold in the digital revolution in the film industry.
@joe23521 revolution? This is Arri's 3rd digital camera. The revolution happened 5 years ago. This is just another generation.
@sydcinema
I would argue that the revolution maybe started five years ago, but it certainly hasn't already "happened." Big names like Arri launching products like these will certainly help push things.
@joe23521 my point is, Arri's been in the digital camera realm for several years. This is not their first camera. It may cost less, but since the vast majority of those who use these cameras just rent a package, the price differences between most of said packages are not great, unless the camera says Sony on the side, or is mostly built by Sony.
"Red can't even afford a booth at NAB"
OMG, if NAB exhibits are a barometer of company solvency, I hope you sold your Apple stock two years ago!
Trade shows are dead. Absence from them is rapidly coming to mean just the opposite of what you're trying to claim. A company that commands enough interest on its own sure as hell doesn't need to bark at passers-by at a trade show.
The article misquoted specs. RED One never had a 35mm, Full Frame sensor until now. They have Super35 sized sensors (aka 1.5x crop).
At fullframe, we can only hope Epic and Scarlet (and upgraded Ones) will be as awesome as Jannard and his sheep make it sound. We'll see at NAB.
@theletterj Idiot. Obviously you don't shoot film. There are 2 full frames, the still photography one, and film. RED has a full frame film sensor, exactly the same size as the ARRI, and any old fashion cine camera out there.
@Toushi calling someone an idiot kinda makes you come across as an elitist film hipster.
To clarify, the difference between the two is that the motion film frame makes room for audio tracks
Actually the Red One isn't full frame cinema format.
It's the full width of a Super 35mm cinema frame, but the height is reduced i.e. 1.78:1 ratio not 1.33:1.
The significance of this is that you can't use Anamorphic lenses on the Red One like you can on the Arri D20, D21 and Alexia A-OV Plus.
"RED One never had a 35mm, Full Frame sensor until now."
Wrong. Film runs through a motion-picture camera vertically, whereas it runs through a still camera horizontally. "Full-frame 35mm" for motion pictures does not mean the same thing as it does for stills, because in a motion-picture camera the frame size is limited by the width of the film.
One thing that was omitted from this article, one HUGE thing: Optical view finder on the flagship model. Yeah, that'll cost more, but the ability to actually see through the lens and not relying on a black and white view finder or lame on-board monitor plus have a rotating shutter will be huge! This in itself will create a whole new category of camera. Out doing the D-21 and Genesis and Viper and F-35...
@mjc8 But but but... the D21 HAS an optical viewfinder.
@imthatoneguy yeah, the D-21 and D-20, for that matter, both have optical finders, but both have lacked in the ease of work flow that *seems* be coming with the Alexa and at better price point. Clearly two different animals, but I bet Alexa takes over. Just a hunch.
60K is not in the same range as the Scarlet's 5K price point. If the 60K includes a complete package and not just a body you can compare it to the RED ONE price point but I doubt that it includes lens, whice the RED does at this price.
REDCODE is one of the advantages of the RED cameras, but since these cameras are modulars it's possible you'll get that as an add on.
The new RED system has a lot going for it, but it's great to see someone else throw their hat in the ring. It's the only way digital cinema will really go forward. A lot more is done with the RED than I expected after such a short time, being that it's a brand new company and most people in this business trust the proven and don't want to experiment.
The competition is always good for us, better cameras for better prices is great, moving more people into digital cinema (which will end up getting RED used more also by these people) is also great.
Not to mention the Arri's only recording 2K images. After you debayer that, you're at 1.5 - 1.7K. Not all that impressive, especially for the price that they'll seek for the nameplate.
@Information Central Arri has a 3k bayer pattern sensor. 2K is the RGB signal.
Scarlet ... Meet ALEXA... Shes Experienced ;)
I work with the RED allot and own a Canon 5D Mk2. Thinking of saving for the Scarlet or Epic eventually, but if this camera competes with price and performance, I cant help but love ARRI build quality and practicality. Their follow focus units, matt boxes, lenses and lights that I use on a regular basis feel solid, always.
I find the RED is a little too modular at times with the stock parts. So modular bits break allot. :(
@sydcinema
Are you on Arri's payroll? You keep spreading misinformation about RED. You said that "A Red one camera has essentially the quality of a decent 2K camera." Yet tests show that the RED 4k 16x9 at REDCODE42 yields 3.5K resolution (due to the Bayer pattern inefficiencies) and the 4.5K resolves a true 4.1K measured resolution. A pretty far cry from the 2K you're talking about.
As for RED not attending NAB because of financial difficulties, can we also assume that Apple didn't attend NAB last year because they couldn't afford it either? I doubt you have any real insight into RED's financial situation.
Now I'm not saying RED is perfect or unbeatable, but don't spread misinformation. I shoot RED footage multiple times every week and I'm happy that Arri has a comparable camera coming out. Competition forces innovation and keeps prices lower. Hopefully this will help drive down prices of RED's expensive peripherals.
@jabba359
Does Apple show up at a seedy hotel at the end of the strip to hawk their wares in a hotel ballroom, riding on the coat tails of NAB? Clearly, they want to be there, but blew their marketing load way too early. They have admitted they took a financial bath the last couple years. Read up on it. You can babble on about image data all you want... I don't care what white papers say about the thing, it's terrible in low light, resolves adequately for what it is, but I will take a great 2K camera any day over what amounts to an average 4K camera. They should have left it at 2K and had a great camera instead of pushing its limits.
So what you're saying is that I should be working for Arri, not Sony, Silicon Imaging, Panasonic, etc.etc. all who make cameras I can trust infinitely more than a Red camera. Maybe if the red cameras I've used in the past worked the entire time I used them and didn't somehow break down, maybe if the image quality was as good as they claimed, maybe if the marketing department didn't whip fanboys into an unrealistic frenzy and I watched friend after friend buy into it and get taken to the cleaners financially after their investment tanked in value. I could go on, but I am not a fan of the company. They make a pretty decent camera, but it is unrealistically placed in with gear of much higher quality all to often.
@sydcinema
"They make a pretty decent camera, but it is unrealistically placed in with gear of much higher quality all to often."
Ah, at least we agree on this! It seems that the $25k RED body ($19k RED One + $6k MX sensor upgrade) is expected to be the exact same quality, durability, and reliability as a $60k Alexa, $116K F950, $118k Phantom HD Gold, or the Panavision Genesis (not for sale, only rental). At it's price point, the RED has no competition. Zero. At twice the price, the Alexa may be worth the extra reliability (though I've never had a RED problem a reboot didn't fix) and greater flexibility in aftermarket accessories and drives. If you're renting instead of buying, then the 2x purchase cost of the Alexa becomes moot, as rental houses foot the purchase price and rental prices shouldn't differ drastically.
As for the sensor in low light, you're talking about the OLD sensor. The new, currently available MX sensor is comparable to the Alexa's not-yet-released sensor in terms of low light capability. Don't believe me? Watch the footage David Fincher shot at ISO 2000. Or read Marc Weigert's side-by-side comparison of the two cameras (who says, "The greenscreen footage of both cameras was very clean and - especially for 800 ASA, had very low grain/noise."). The Alexa comes out slightly ahead in most regards, but not significantly so.
I'm no fanboy of RED, as there are lots of things they could be doing better (I hate the overpriced proprietary drives, cables, etc.). But I think that the camera is good, the Alexa looks to be pretty dang nice as well, and I'm glad there's competition in the lower-priced cinema camera market. Having more players in the game will only make for better products for those of us that are out there shooting.