I just don't get this at all. Why on earth would HTC want Palm?? WTF does Palm have? The Palm OS??? That's what's sinking Palm as it is!!
Who is the Palm OS for? Is it for corporate users? Okay, well good luck unseating RIM. Is it for casual users? Seems like between Android, Apple, Maemo, Symbian, Windows... well, it seems covered. Does Palm really want to try to split up that pie even further? (That small part of the pie that's left after RIM and iPhone take their chunks.)
I'm just saying, I don't think HTC gets *anything* useful from Palm... at all.
I also cite this video post Kevin Rose made last month about this very topic: http://bit.ly/aCjMnk
@MichaelF You have no idea and neither did Kevin. WebOS is very versatile and can compete at the consumer and enterprise level with the right backing. Palm is currently to small to properly support their OS.
@MichaelF have you ever heard of webOS? its a pretty damn good OS. just need some good hardware to pull it up and some good advertising. if they marketed this a bit better you may know a little bit more about it.
I believe you guys, I'm sure it is a perfectly fine mobile OS. However, as long as RIM and iPhone hold as much market share as they do, then Palm has to compete for the leftovers with Android, Symbian, and Windows. I just don't see it working out for them.
And as for Kevin not knowing about it, I'm going to have to place his expertise a bit higher than yours... considering he is the founder and CEO of a major tech-related company, and an Angel Investor in the technology sector, I just place a little more faith in his research and assessment than some guy on a message board's.
@MichaelF You have a point, however disregarding the quite widely held view that WebOS is one of the best, most innovative mobile operating systems around, if you would have read the article you would have seen that what HTC would gain is Palm's very very very large patent portfolio which would not only provide HTC with an edge in it's current lawsuit against apple but also more more room for innovation.
On a side note, I'd like to thank everyone for speaking nicely even though we disagree. Too often people get nasty.
In response to what you said, I did read the article, it's just my opinion that HTC doesn't get anything they really need from Palm. Sure, they'd get *some* stuff, but is it enough to make it worth buying a company in as much trouble as Palm? Personally, I don't think so.
Hey, it's just my thoughts on the story. We'll all find out soon enough; HTC will either make a move or they won't. I'm betting they won't.
No, you're right, they're not. I guess I just meant that both iPhone and Blackberry OS are only on their own devices, whereas the rest are shared among many manufacturer's devices.
Your post actually kind of reinforces my point, I think. Between iPhone, BB, and Symbian, 81% of the market is dominated.
Anyway, I respect everyone's opinions... I'll be interested to see how this plays out. Anyone want to put odds on it? lol
@Coswyn HTC sucks!! Their hardware sucks, and they will continue to make crap hardware. Their phones always have promise, but never deliver. Their touch screen tech is totally lacking as well, and the implementation is never very good.
The Pre is better hardware than anything HTC has actually brought to market in recent years, and the reviews of the actual hardware tell the same story.
There is a clear and fundemental difference between Android and WebOS (actually, three of them.)
1. WebOS is *only* on Palm devices, whereas Android was designed to be multi-device/multi-carrier.
2. Google dominates pretty much everything they decide to toss their hat into, the same can't be said about Palm.
3. Android is open-source & free. That automatically gives it a leg up on something like WebOS.
Hey, I'm not saying it's not a good OS... I have no idea as I've never owned a Palm device in my life. I just don't think they've [Palm] positioned themselves correctly.
Also, as far as I can tell this idea of HTC buying Palm is something that was made up in this article. It's just something that an Engadget writer was musing about. No one has mentioned this as an actual possibility from what I can find.
(Oh, and I know people will start yelling "iPhone" in response to my #2 above... okay, so that's granted.)
@MichaelF "Hey, it's just my thoughts on the story. We'll all find out soon enough; HTC will either make a move or they won't. I'm betting they won't."
Agree they won't!. Why should they ?. They are too deep into Droid already!. A year ago would have been a great time for Palm tie-up. I think RIM should go buy Palm now!. They need a sturdy OS with nice UI which Palm still has the edge but not enough resources to develop further. iPhone OS4 will hit RIM real hard.
@MichaelF WebOS is open source also, being Linux under the hood. The upside to a company like HTC owning WebOS would most certainly be a good thing for them. It would give them the same type of control that Apple and RIM enjoy with their devices. WebOS is really a good OS, and I have used them all - Well, almost all. It is stable, powerful, and easy to use. Throw a little Sense in there, and who knows? The point is, that what Palm has created may not put them on the path to profitability, but I think it will ensure the Palm name will live on.
That actually makes more sense to me. BB has the market share, imagine if they developed a new OS that actually had a nice GUI...
On a separate note, I love how many of my comments in this thread have been down-ranked. They were on-topic, insightful, thought-out, and politely worded... it's amazing to me how people will down-rank the crap out of you just because they don't agree with your opinion. I'm no troll, people... what's the point of these message boards without differing opinions?
@trwrt I disagree with you. While my past HTC phone was not the greatest quality. I think they have improved. I do not own a nexus one, but while handling one, it just feels like good quality. When I had my pre, it felt like crap. In fact, I had to wedge paper in the battery compartment to keep it from turning off when I close the slider. Yeah, great quality.
HTC buying Palm would be great for WebOS but bad for HTC. If they followed Chris Ziegler's advice, a year from now they would be in the exact same position as Palm is today. And everyone would be surprised. And everyone would be looking for excuses as to why it didn't work (again). People will be blaming lack of carrier support, lack of apps, lack of updates... not understanding the underlying reason to why Palm failed in the market place:
There are too many mobile OS's/platforms and neither Palm or HTC has the resources to compete with Apple, Google and Microsoft.
Add that to the fact that Android is the fastest growing platform in the mobile market, whereas WebOS has failed to attract users or developers. In what parallel universe does jumping from the most successful platform to one of the least successful platforms make any sense? Especially as Android is free, and Palm would probably cost more than HTC could afford.
While I agree that a high-end HTC phone running WebOS makes nerd sense, I don't see how it makes business sense.
@MichaelF via these comments I can see you really don't know WebOS. So your talking out your ass a bit. WebOS is linuxed based so it would be very apllicable as a multi platform OS. Given the size and rampant participation of the homebrew community you can the that it if Very open source and palm actually adopts apps from the homebrew community. Conversly Palm lends code to the homebrew community for development. I enjoy android and respect it but it does not have the polish and personality that WebOS does. Ill get a little brazen here and say Nothing does!
Well your only one person....I am one of 4 or 5 people in my office who have tbe Pm Pre and can't imagine using anything else and all of us on our first phone. Mine personally has been a tank. Fact is, the majority of those who use WebOS love more daily.
Has anyone here used a Palm Pre or Pre Plus recently?:
The reason the Pre Plus won LaptopMag's contest against Iphone3gs, Droid (by 10k votes), Nexus One, etc... is because of its OS.
The reason I myself can never buy any other phone is because of WebOS. It revolutionizes the way anyone uses a phone. It's full blown out multitasking.... not multitasking lite that the Iphone will get or android/WinMo/BlackBerry has...
That and gestures and the card metaphor makes this phone so advance.
As for Palm? It's been releasing OS updates every month to two months... The OS is 10x better since launch last summer. The only problem is that the OS is too much for the Pre Hardware. Things like battery issues, flimsy builds, underclocked processor is what we Pre owners have to deal with. However, we keep our phone because it has the easiest to use OS on a phone, and we have the PreCentral community to back us up.
Also, new hardware will fix everything Palm needs. Battery, processor and ram to handle multitasking, solid device....
Everyone on PreCentral wants an HTC Evo/ HD2 with WebOS.
You hit the nail on the head. I like a physical keyboard, but I'd LOVE a sweet looking WebOS driven 4G HTC phone with some robust hardware. You also pointed out something that only WebOS users know and should really become common knowledge; every month or two my phone gets a little faster, smoother and more capable. Those who judge WebOS by the user experience and reviews 10 months ago should really update their knowledge base. I'm not particularly loyal to Palm, but I'd be really disappointed if WebOS went away entierly.
I received my nexus one last week. It feels great. However, the touch screen is none responsive and is not calibrated. Just go to youtube and type "Nexus one touch screen problem" and you will see what I'm referring to. I was really looking forward to the phone, but to be completely honest, this phone should not have past the quality control phase. There are far too many glitches in the screen, capacitive touch buttons, and 3G connectivity to allow it to be sold. The phone is sexy, but not reliable in anyway. I'm returning mine this Monday :-(
Everyone is trying to convince me that WebOS is a fantastic OS... that's not really the point. Explain to me how HTC putting out devices with WebOS makes it gain more market-share? It doesn't. Carriers are behind other platforms now, namely Android and WinMo.
Also, I'm not sure that I understand what your point is here: "WebOS is linuxed based so it would be very apllicable as a multi platform OS" Is WebOS running on devices other then Palm that I'm just unaware of? It's an exclusive thing - which, back to my original post, was Kevin's point... they should have been licensing this OS out to other people since day 1, but they weren't.
Anyway, again I say this whole discussion is pointless since NO ONE is seriously talking about HTC buying Palm. This was made up, in this forum, for this thread. Nothing more.
@MichaelF You're being short sighted. HTC has hardware clout, the industry also knows that WebOS has the incredible clout of being the top mobile OS. The hardware was why the incongruity of interests and incredible mind share Pre had vs actual sales. People were put off by the hardware.... and maybe a bit by the carrier. HTC has Money and good hardware.... WebOS is an addictive, functional and fantastic OS that would be a fantastic customer experience keeping people loyal to WebOS, HTC hardware and keep them coming back plus new people Joining. This is where sales come in, annuities from apps, repeat customers, market share and happy investors... Follow? 1+1=2.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
Judging by Palm's management it would be HTC's loss.
@Coswyn
I'd lmfao if nintendo got it.
@Coswyn
I just don't get this at all. Why on earth would HTC want Palm?? WTF does Palm have? The Palm OS??? That's what's sinking Palm as it is!!
Who is the Palm OS for? Is it for corporate users? Okay, well good luck unseating RIM. Is it for casual users? Seems like between Android, Apple, Maemo, Symbian, Windows... well, it seems covered. Does Palm really want to try to split up that pie even further? (That small part of the pie that's left after RIM and iPhone take their chunks.)
I'm just saying, I don't think HTC gets *anything* useful from Palm... at all.
I also cite this video post Kevin Rose made last month about this very topic: http://bit.ly/aCjMnk
@MichaelF You have no idea and neither did Kevin. WebOS is very versatile and can compete at the consumer and enterprise level with the right backing. Palm is currently to small to properly support their OS.
@MichaelF
have you ever heard of webOS? its a pretty damn good OS. just need some good hardware to pull it up and some good advertising. if they marketed this a bit better you may know a little bit more about it.
I believe you guys, I'm sure it is a perfectly fine mobile OS. However, as long as RIM and iPhone hold as much market share as they do, then Palm has to compete for the leftovers with Android, Symbian, and Windows. I just don't see it working out for them.
And as for Kevin not knowing about it, I'm going to have to place his expertise a bit higher than yours... considering he is the founder and CEO of a major tech-related company, and an Angel Investor in the technology sector, I just place a little more faith in his research and assessment than some guy on a message board's.
Not trying to be a smart-ass... just sayin'.
@MichaelF You have a point, however disregarding the quite widely held view that WebOS is one of the best, most innovative mobile operating systems around, if you would have read the article you would have seen that what HTC would gain is Palm's very very very large patent portfolio which would not only provide HTC with an edge in it's current lawsuit against apple but also more more room for innovation.
@iCello
On a side note, I'd like to thank everyone for speaking nicely even though we disagree. Too often people get nasty.
In response to what you said, I did read the article, it's just my opinion that HTC doesn't get anything they really need from Palm. Sure, they'd get *some* stuff, but is it enough to make it worth buying a company in as much trouble as Palm? Personally, I don't think so.
Hey, it's just my thoughts on the story. We'll all find out soon enough; HTC will either make a move or they won't. I'm betting they won't.
@MichaelF
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/23/gartner-apple-android-and-rim-winners-in-2009-smartphone-os-g/
symbian is not fighting over the scraps lol.
@ardation
No, you're right, they're not. I guess I just meant that both iPhone and Blackberry OS are only on their own devices, whereas the rest are shared among many manufacturer's devices.
Your post actually kind of reinforces my point, I think. Between iPhone, BB, and Symbian, 81% of the market is dominated.
Anyway, I respect everyone's opinions... I'll be interested to see how this plays out. Anyone want to put odds on it? lol
@Coswyn HTC sucks!! Their hardware sucks, and they will continue to make crap hardware. Their phones always have promise, but never deliver. Their touch screen tech is totally lacking as well, and the implementation is never very good.
The Pre is better hardware than anything HTC has actually brought to market in recent years, and the reviews of the actual hardware tell the same story.
@MichaelF : You could have easily made the same argument about Android when it was launched. Who needs it when we have iPhone, WinMo, Blackberry, etc?
@MichaelF Sure, I can kinda agree with that. And I don't think HTC will actually buy Palm, I just wish they would.
@trwrt
There is a clear and fundemental difference between Android and WebOS (actually, three of them.)
1. WebOS is *only* on Palm devices, whereas Android was designed to be multi-device/multi-carrier.
2. Google dominates pretty much everything they decide to toss their hat into, the same can't be said about Palm.
3. Android is open-source & free. That automatically gives it a leg up on something like WebOS.
Hey, I'm not saying it's not a good OS... I have no idea as I've never owned a Palm device in my life. I just don't think they've [Palm] positioned themselves correctly.
Also, as far as I can tell this idea of HTC buying Palm is something that was made up in this article. It's just something that an Engadget writer was musing about. No one has mentioned this as an actual possibility from what I can find.
(Oh, and I know people will start yelling "iPhone" in response to my #2 above... okay, so that's granted.)
@MichaelF "Hey, it's just my thoughts on the story. We'll all find out soon enough; HTC will either make a move or they won't. I'm betting they won't."
Agree they won't!. Why should they ?. They are too deep into Droid already!. A year ago would have been a great time for Palm tie-up. I think RIM should go buy Palm now!. They need a sturdy OS with nice UI which Palm still has the edge but not enough resources to develop further.
iPhone OS4 will hit RIM real hard.
@MichaelF WebOS is open source also, being Linux under the hood. The upside to a company like HTC owning WebOS would most certainly be a good thing for them. It would give them the same type of control that Apple and RIM enjoy with their devices. WebOS is really a good OS, and I have used them all - Well, almost all. It is stable, powerful, and easy to use. Throw a little Sense in there, and who knows? The point is, that what Palm has created may not put them on the path to profitability, but I think it will ensure the Palm name will live on.
@Fteo64
That actually makes more sense to me. BB has the market share, imagine if they developed a new OS that actually had a nice GUI...
On a separate note, I love how many of my comments in this thread have been down-ranked. They were on-topic, insightful, thought-out, and politely worded... it's amazing to me how people will down-rank the crap out of you just because they don't agree with your opinion. I'm no troll, people... what's the point of these message boards without differing opinions?
@trwrt I disagree with you. While my past HTC phone was not the greatest quality. I think they have improved. I do not own a nexus one, but while handling one, it just feels like good quality. When I had my pre, it felt like crap. In fact, I had to wedge paper in the battery compartment to keep it from turning off when I close the slider. Yeah, great quality.
HTC buying Palm would be great for WebOS but bad for HTC.
If they followed Chris Ziegler's advice, a year from now they would be in the exact same position as Palm is today. And everyone would be surprised. And everyone would be looking for excuses as to why it didn't work (again). People will be blaming lack of carrier support, lack of apps, lack of updates... not understanding the underlying reason to why Palm failed in the market place:
There are too many mobile OS's/platforms and neither Palm or HTC has the resources to compete with Apple, Google and Microsoft.
Add that to the fact that Android is the fastest growing platform in the mobile market, whereas WebOS has failed to attract users or developers. In what parallel universe does jumping from the most successful platform to one of the least successful platforms make any sense? Especially as Android is free, and Palm would probably cost more than HTC could afford.
While I agree that a high-end HTC phone running WebOS makes nerd sense, I don't see how it makes business sense.
@MichaelF via these comments I can see you really don't know WebOS. So your talking out your ass a bit. WebOS is linuxed based so it would be very apllicable as a multi platform OS. Given the size and rampant participation of the homebrew community you can the that it if Very open source and palm actually adopts apps from the homebrew community. Conversly Palm lends code to the homebrew community for development. I enjoy android and respect it but it does not have the polish and personality that WebOS does. Ill get a little brazen here and say Nothing does!
@captaind172
Well your only one person....I am one of 4 or 5 people in my office who have tbe Pm Pre and can't imagine using anything else and all of us on our first phone. Mine personally has been a tank. Fact is, the majority of those who use WebOS love more daily.
@Coswyn :
@MichaelF:
Has anyone here used a Palm Pre or Pre Plus recently?:
The reason the Pre Plus won LaptopMag's contest against Iphone3gs, Droid (by 10k votes), Nexus One, etc... is because of its OS.
The reason I myself can never buy any other phone is because of WebOS. It revolutionizes the way anyone uses a phone. It's full blown out multitasking.... not multitasking lite that the Iphone will get or android/WinMo/BlackBerry has...
That and gestures and the card metaphor makes this phone so advance.
As for Palm? It's been releasing OS updates every month to two months... The OS is 10x better since launch last summer. The only problem is that the OS is too much for the Pre Hardware.
Things like battery issues, flimsy builds, underclocked processor is what we Pre owners have to deal with.
However, we keep our phone because it has the easiest to use OS on a phone, and we have the PreCentral community to back us up.
Also, new hardware will fix everything Palm needs.
Battery, processor and ram to handle multitasking, solid device....
Everyone on PreCentral wants an HTC Evo/ HD2 with WebOS.
@Kedar
You hit the nail on the head. I like a physical keyboard, but I'd LOVE a sweet looking WebOS driven 4G HTC phone with some robust hardware. You also pointed out something that only WebOS users know and should really become common knowledge; every month or two my phone gets a little faster, smoother and more capable. Those who judge WebOS by the user experience and reviews 10 months ago should really update their knowledge base. I'm not particularly loyal to Palm, but I'd be really disappointed if WebOS went away entierly.
@captaind172
I received my nexus one last week. It feels great. However, the touch screen is none responsive and is not calibrated. Just go to youtube and type "Nexus one touch screen problem" and you will see what I'm referring to. I was really looking forward to the phone, but to be completely honest, this phone should not have past the quality control phase. There are far too many glitches in the screen, capacitive touch buttons, and 3G connectivity to allow it to be sold. The phone is sexy, but not reliable in anyway. I'm returning mine this Monday :-(
they lost me when they said "and throw webOS out with the trash"
@Thor e
Everyone is trying to convince me that WebOS is a fantastic OS... that's not really the point. Explain to me how HTC putting out devices with WebOS makes it gain more market-share? It doesn't. Carriers are behind other platforms now, namely Android and WinMo.
Also, I'm not sure that I understand what your point is here: "WebOS is linuxed based so it would be very apllicable as a multi platform OS"
Is WebOS running on devices other then Palm that I'm just unaware of? It's an exclusive thing - which, back to my original post, was Kevin's point... they should have been licensing this OS out to other people since day 1, but they weren't.
Anyway, again I say this whole discussion is pointless since NO ONE is seriously talking about HTC buying Palm. This was made up, in this forum, for this thread. Nothing more.
@MichaelF
You're being short sighted. HTC has hardware clout, the industry also knows that WebOS has the incredible clout of being the top mobile OS. The hardware was why the incongruity of interests and incredible mind share Pre had vs actual sales. People were put off by the hardware.... and maybe a bit by the carrier. HTC has Money and good hardware.... WebOS is an addictive, functional and fantastic OS that would be a fantastic customer experience keeping people loyal to WebOS, HTC hardware and keep them coming back plus new people Joining. This is where sales come in, annuities from apps, repeat customers, market share and happy investors... Follow? 1+1=2.