Editorial: Engadget on Microsoft Kin

If you've been following our reports, you know that Microsoft's Kin aren't your average smartphones. They don't have a big, bright screen, a particularly fast processor or a robust app store filled with thousands of third-party programs. They're just a pair of interestingly-designed phones with high-res cameras, running a MOTOBLUR-like OS that aggregates your social networks into a neat stream, while smartly documenting every picture, video and status update in cloud storage for future reference. What does that juxtaposition mean for the cellphone market? Honestly, we can't quite agree -- so we're going to let the roving, mobile minds at Engadget HQ speak for themselves.

Josh:

The Kin is perplexing to me, and doubly so due to Microsoft's recent announcement of Windows Phone 7 at Mobile World Congress (with a follow-up showing at MIX10). It was literally one month ago that the company was extolling the possibilities and benefits of its completely rethought OS, a ground-up, reboot effort from the Windows Mobile team. An OS which taps into the Zune ecosystem, plays Xbox Live games, is built around the concept of social networking integration (sound familiar?), will have rich apps and great options for developers, and is built for state-of-the-art hardware. So, how does the company move from its halo mobile devices to the Kin and have it make any kind of sense? From high-end, iPhone-stomping phones, to two devices which are seriously under-spec'd (4GB, really guys?), severely lacking in services (no apps? no calendar?), and questionably designed (uh, the Turtle). How does this make sense for Microsoft, and more importantly, the consumer? Is the Kin customer the people featured in the brand's advertising -- scruffy, savvy, urban twenty-somethings who love technology but don't want technology to get in the way of having a good time -- or is it for someone else entirely? And is that the point?

"There is a market out there for them, not nascent but actual, where apps and email and calendars sound like a hassle, not a feature."

Now, I don't identify with the folks in the ads, in fact, I'm not sure that anyone really does. They're like a faker version of Urban Outfitters hipsters, some copy of a copy based on an idea that never really meant anything to start with. And Microsoft doesn't just use The Hipster to sell phones -- they go one step further and cast actors as hipsters selling phones. That's the thing, though: we're not supposed to identify with them. But kids weaned on Gossip Girl and Jersey Shore? Kids who won't see through the marketing? As our friend Michael Gartenberg suggested to me on a phone call, "it's aspirational." Yes, aspirational, but not for us, and not for people who actually stay out late, drink, and burn their lover's old photos on a desolate beach. No, not for them or us -- the iPhone and BlackBerry users of the world. The people that actually need a phone to do real things. I think the mistake for us is in thinking that that's what Microsoft has in mind. I think they're aiming for a very different market, one that the editors of Engadget (and the majority of its readership) don't truly understand. Are they tweens? Teens? Probably both. And probably -- likely -- you have no idea what tweens and teens want in a phone. There is a market out there for them, not nascent but actual, a market where apps and email and calendars sound like a hassle, not a feature. A market where connecting via text and Facebook is the main course, not the side dish. A market that actually can't afford a $30 data plan and apps, even if they're cheap. A market made up of talking, texting, socially -- not networked, but connected -- kids out there that want something like the Kin in their life. And hey, when they grow up, after the gateway drug of Kin, they'll be ready for Windows Phone... at least that's probably what Microsoft is hoping.

The flip side? It's everything I see on the surface; misguided, underwhelming, way too short on features, and likely scrapped when (or if) Windows Phone 7 takes a foothold. Young consumers -- the spendiest of the spendy -- will cast their vote in cold, hard cash soon enough.

Paul:

So, the biggest question that comes to mind with Kin is "why?" It's not that Microsoft isn't doing anything interesting, it's just that they're giving out what basically amounts to a subset of what's going to be in Windows Phone 7. Why not just try to get Windows Phone 7 on as many screens as possible? Why fragment your development effort? Don't ask me. Still, taken on its own I think Kin offers some valuable, interesting approaches to the problem of social networking on a handset -- even if they're minimal and potentially half-baked. Basically, the idea of keeping in contact via email / SMS / status updates shouldn't be consigned to applications, instead they should be the essence of a modern phone (I'm hardly the young and hip target market here, but even I don't care much for actual phone calls). Microsoft seems to know this, though why they decided a phone should or could be only this is troubling. Oh, and the addition of Kin Studio for managing everything that's happening on your phone from your computer is just gravy.

The other thing I find really interesting here is that Microsoft is selling hardware. It's not in such a way to compete with their flagship third party handset builders (and again, I'm pretty sure that's a problem they should be facing now, not deferring), but it's phone hardware nonetheless. That puts these Kin handsets in the small realm of non-peripheral Microsoft devices that include the Xbox (great product, big win) and Zune (great product, big loss). Where it will fall is anybody's guess, but my money is on something much closer to Zune than Xbox. No matter how cool some of Kin's ideas are, the phones will still be too expensive (in either handset or service cost) to compete with dumbphones, and too feature-limited to compete with the iPhone.

Sean H.:

I've never owned a phone that wasn't "smart," and the moment I set eyes on the Kin I knew it wasn't the phone for me. Smartphones these days are customizable affairs where you can build a library of programs that assist you with every informational aspect of your life, when you have only to generate a use case and find there's already "an app for that," but the Kin doesn't have an app store. That said, the Kin One is the sexiest, most comfortable pocket camcorder I've seen in some time, with a fantastic little keyboard for captioning photos and sending status updates. If the powers that be intervened and let me use it on my existing unlimited data plan instead of having to purchase a new one (as Kin buyers surely will), I could see myself dropping a Kin One in my pocket just for personal lifestreaming purposes.

As for Kin's actual target demographic -- former Sidekick fans -- I think it all depends on price. If Microsoft and partner carriers can make Kin significantly more affordable than the iPhone, enough to tempt parents to pick them up instead, they just might have a winner on their hands.

Ross:

I've been doing everything I can to put myself in the place of Microsoft's target demographic when I think about Kin, because frankly speaking, it ain't me. I'll do what I can to ignore the press conference, but sitting in the audience waiting for more Savage Garden references, I felt like Microsoft missed a point. The company shouldn't be only be catering to the needs of the target demographic; it should, in fact, do all that and try to teach an audience new ways of using the phone -- as Apple has shown, people love the bells and whistles. How about some simplified augmented reality along the lines of Layar, something not too terribly taxing on the bandwidth... which brings me back to the crux of Kin, and a sentiment I expect will be repeated quite often.

"Great hardware, ever-expanding cloud-based storage... but really, its fate hinges on the upfront costs and the data plan."

Microsoft is going after the featurephone market with a device that requires you to upload every single video and photo, and barring some magic, those 5 and 8 megapixel party shots won't be making carriers too happy. If the upfront cost, or even worse the monthly data plan, is anywhere in the vicinity of smartphones, the much-beleaguered Palm Pre is gonna start looking much nicer -- say what you will about an uncertain future, at least it has games and an app catalog. Kin as a platform has a lot of great ideas -- ever-expanding cloud-based storage and a well-implemented gesture system, to name a couple -- and the hardware is absolutely gorgeous, but really, its fate hinges on the upfront costs and the data plan.

Tim:

I realize I'm in the minority here, but I kinda like the idea of the Kin. Sure, Microsoft's forced marketing angle just feels a bit weird, and it's easy to look down on a gussied up dumbphone that exists largely for the sake of making the process of menial tweeting that much easier. But, honestly, I think the idea for the Kin is a good one and that most of those who aren't getting it aren't supposed to get it. This is a phone largely intended for teens, and few outside of that demographic are really going to see any appeal here.

That said, the Kin Two is a little odd: too big for skinny jeans, and landscape sliders are a pain for firing off nine-char "C U there" texts. But, the Kin One has a fun looking design with cool functionality and the Kin experience as a whole looks really seamless. I think with some subtler marketing Kin could be a success, but the big problem isn't really about the hardware or software. Many of Microsoft's "Generation Upload" already have an iPhone, and are they likely to give it up for this? To find success Microsoft is going to have to make this thing cheap, like free with contract cheap, and that seems a little unlikely to me.

Chris:

It's easy to write off Kin as a failure -- it doesn't game, it doesn't let users (supposedly socially-connected ones) instant message, and it dares to argue that something as basic as a calendar isn't a critical app. As with everything, though, it's all about perspective. Despite what you may have heard, there's absolutely a market segment that Kin is capable of owning and turning on its end -- but in order to see that potential and to understand it, you've got to block everything you know about modern smartphones from your mind.

"The days when smartphones were geeky tools relegated to high-tech road warriors are long gone, and they aren't coming back."

The days when smartphones were geeky tools relegated to high-tech road warriors are long gone, and they aren't coming back. Devices like the iPhone, the Pre, and the upcoming flood of Windows Phone 7 hardware all squarely target the average aspirational consumer; these are phones we want to own not just because they're powerful, but because they're beautiful and trendy. That's a huge threat to the Kin's philosophy and raison d'être, because Microsoft is banking on the fact that kids -- perhaps the trendiest humans on the face of the planet -- don't have their eyes on an iPhone. They're assuming that the hundreds of thousands of teens with text-centric dumbphones (a category so big that AT&T has given it a catchy name, "quick messaging devices") will continue to buy and ask their parents for those same text-centric dumbphones.

That's a risky bet, no doubt about it, but it's winnable. The bottom line is that I think Kin's success or failure hinges on two things. Most importantly, Microsoft needs to be extraordinarily careful about how it positions and markets the product; it isn't complementary to Windows Phone 7, nor does it compete with any mobile product Microsoft has sought to compete with in the past (actually, I think that the company has already misstepped a bit here by attaching the "Windows Phone" name to it -- it should've been a total clean-slate campaign devoid of anything related to Microsoft or its other products). Tied into this is the fact that, of course, the pricing needs to be right. Kids and parents both need to be able to afford the product and its plans, which will need to run significantly less than what you'd pay per month for a full-fledged smartphone.

Secondly -- and this is more of a "big picture" thing -- Microsoft needs a story for keeping users in the ecosystem. Kin is an exceptionally tightly-focused product that will be very, very easy for users to outgrow, and right now, there's not much of a migration path between it and Windows Phone 7. Basically, it feels like Kin would serve Microsoft much more effectively in the long run as a "flavored" version of Windows Phone 7 rather than an architecturally unique platform -- but they're not there today, and in the meantime, the company risks seeing ex-Kin users move on to iPhones, BlackBerrys, and Android-based devices unless the pull of Zune Pass alone is enough to keep them put (we doubt it).

Will I be buying a Kin? No, and odds are good you won't be, either -- but to write it off as a product without a market is a bit premature. At this point, the ball is entirely in the courts of Microsoft's and Verizon's marketing teams to make sure we know exactly who these phones are for.

Darren:

It's kind of strange to think that Microsoft revealed an overhauled OS and two new phones just moments (it seems, anyway) after Windows Phone 7 wowed us all. Frankly, it feels a little bit like the Kin duo has been in the oven for a long, long time, and four years ago tweens were crazy about texting and little else. A lot has changed in the mobile world since; every teen I know wants either a BlackBerry, an iPhone or if they're really wild, an Android handset. No one I know wants a half-baked "texting machine." But in reality, smartphones aren't for everyone, and Microsoft is apparently aiming to satisfy those who aren't willing to shell out or put up with everything that comes with smartphone ownership.

The problem? A data plan is a data plan (today, anyway), and $30 per month is $30 per month. It's simple, really -- would you get more value from a $30 data plan on an iPhone, or a $30 data plan on a Nokia Surge? Which is really more capable of using data and data-intensive services? I'm honestly hoping that the Kin launch leads to a lower tier of data service -- something that was everywhere even when the original iPhone launched (remember that?). For an extra $5 or $10 per month for unlimited data, I could see a few teens picking up a Kin One or Kin Two for free (or close to free) on contract, but make no mistake -- Microsoft and Verizon are going to have price this right in order make waves. Demand $99 on contract for the phone(s) and $30 for a limitless data plan and you can go ahead and pack it up. There's just far too much competition, and far too much demand for smartphones, to play that card and hope for the best.

Thomas:

Let's get this out of the way: I'm not a fan of products targeting specific demographics. Pink for girls, blue for boys; Pixies for frazzled moms, and Droids for truck drivin' dads. And listening to Microsoft pitch the "upload generation" on Kin was like watching a floppy-skinned Larry King "chill" with his "home-boy" Snoop Dog -- awkward, painful, nauseating.

"If the Spot, Loop, and Studio elements are so spectacular, why not integrate into a variant of Microsoft's premier mobile OS, Windows Phone 7?"

Having said that, I'm a sucker for a slick user interface and novel but purposeful user experience. From what I've seen (not yet experienced first hand, mind you), the Zune Pass, Twitter, Facebook, and camera integration seem well conceived as does the web-based Kin Studio timeline. But why did Microsoft stop there? No 3D games to snack on, no app store of any kind? Did we slip into a celestial time suck and emerge back in 2007? And if the Kin Spot, Loop, and Studio elements are so spectacular, why weren't they integrated into a variant of Microsoft's premier mobile operating system, Windows Phone 7 OS? It's not like WinPho 7 has any legacy code to contend with for chrissake. Other than internal corporate politics and fiefdoms, I can see no other reason for Microsoft to purposely fragment its own user base. In what bizarre corporate strategy does it make sense to follow three parallel mobile OS development paths -- yes, 3, remember, Microsoft will keep Windows Mobile 6.x alive for corporate enterprises into the foreseeable future. Oh right, the Nokia model lazily fueled by MS Office and Windows riches. I'll be recommending WinPho7 when cruising the high schools come May.

Laura:

As a 30-ish year old woman, I'll admit that Microsoft is probably not targeting me with the Kin -- they're going for a hipper, more Urban Outfittered, less boyish looking version of me, say, 7-10 years ago. I'll also admit that there's something about featurephones that even to this day are attractive to me -- call it my hankering for the olden days, you know, when things were simpler and if you wanted to get an album you had to go somewhere, talk to a person in a store, pay for it with money, etc. So the fact that the Kin is not by any means a smartphone does not immediately make me chortle with disdain. There are a few things that I find intriguing here -- mostly the Kin Studio and Loop functions, which I think could be legitimate selling points to the phone. Design-wise, however -- well -- the fact that it reminds me of the LeapFrog Text and Learn probably isn't a good thing: the Kin just looks a little too much like a toy, and neither iteration is very attractive, in my opinion. That's probably going to hurt it. And then there is the marketing... which for me is just a bit... creepy. Not Palm lady creepy, but creepy in that the images we're presented with are of people whose "originals" I've yet to see walking the streets anywhere. Like they are merely someone's idea of youth and young people, rather than that reality itself. Now, I don't really expect realistic portrayals in marketing, but something about these "young people" seems to me, at least, to ring really false -- in a way that I think will also ring false to Microsoft's intended demographic. But hey, I'm old. What do I know?

Joanna:

My twenty-one year old sister is exactly who Microsoft has in mind to buy the Kin One and Two. Yep, she's a member of "generation upload" and is constantly (and I mean constantly) sharing what she's up to with her friends via Facebook, BBM, text messages and her IM status. Here's the thing though, her and all of her friends have smartphones.

"My twenty-one year old sister is exactly who Microsoft has in mind to buy the Kin One and Two. Yep, she's a member of 'generation upload'."

Surprisingly, most of them own BlackBerrys -- not iPhones for some reason -- and communicate all day long through BBM (BlackBerry Messenger for those that aren't familiar with the proprietary instant message software) and upload pictures to Facebook through the app. My young and beautiful sister also uses those inherent "smartphone" features, like the calendar to keep track of her classes and e-mail to communicate with our parents. And that's just it -- people in this age group haven't only grabbed a hold of smartphones, they swear up and down by them. I'm intrigued by the Kin and its flowy interface, but I'd bet you that my sister and her friends would be a lot more interested in a full fledged Windows 7 smartphone if forced to choose amongst Microsoft's newest mobile offerings. My guess is that for Kin or these "smart-dumb phones" to really take hold, the value has to be incredibly obvious to Gen Uploaders that want to save some cash for beer or clothes. And that's ultimately what Verizon and Microsoft have to do -- create an enticing balance of price and features -- to win over my smartphone-loving sister.

Sam (our intern):

Microsoft never ceases to amaze me. Immediately after the launch of Windows Phone 7 comes its Kin (yes, pun intended). As a proud former owner of a Sidekick LX, I'll gladly raise a glass of champagne to Danger, but the news of the Kin kind of makes me want to stop drinking altogether. The Kin One and Kin Two (whose names make me think of a death in the family) don't seem to be anything more than toys with a 5MP and 8MP camera strapped on. Sure, they keep you connected to all your social networks at once, but honestly, who really needs this? I've asked many friends my age (nineteen), and just like me, they get their Facebook and Twitter fixes with their laptops and current smartphones. My younger brothers (a freshman and junior in high school, respectively) both think the Kin is "overkill," and while it might be an ideal phone for people who want to be connected all time, the amount of people that would actually want that in a phone is probably somewhat limited. I think the straightjacketing and limitations that come with Kin devices are huge drawbacks -- but what offends me the most is the way the demographic targeted by Microsoft was portrayed at the Kin event. Microsoft made it seem that a majority of social network users are teenage or twenty-something hipsters who think that "Facebook is a second job" and enjoy "hanging out watching fat people eat burritos." Um... what? The way that Kin portrayed my age group yesterday made me feel ashamed to be a part of, well... my age group. I get my social networking done via my laptop and my iPhone, and I don't need my phone to document my night -- sometimes you just want actual memories.

[Pork Posted Apr 14th 2010 12:49AM]

Think of it as Pokemon.
Adults can't understand what so fricking good about Pokemon.
But kids LOVE Pokemon.

[bj55555 Posted Apr 14th 2010 12:54AM]

If we took the opinions of all the Engadget staff members who wrote their comments for this piece, and then add the opinions of all their young friends, nieces, nephews, cousins, and younger brothers and/or sisters, and then throw in the opinions of all the commenters here as well as all of their young friends, nieces, nephews, cousins, and younger brothers and/or sisters, what you'd get is a single data point compared to the market research put in by Microsoft. And that's not counting the market intelligence Verizon has with respect to its own customers.

Even armed with this market research, could these products fail? Sure. Even a marketing "genius" like Steve Jobs probably overestimated the target market size for AppleTV.

Nevertheless, even if you took the cumulative sales of all iPhones, BlackBerries, and Android-devices, the number would puny compared to the number of mobile phones CURRENTLY IN SERVICE as of this instant. These Kin phones, regardless of their lack of some common smartphone features, will meet the needs of some segment of all mobile phone users out there. With their Zune/Zune Pass integration and FM radio alone, these phones are likely to create its own market segment, if anything. After all, how many mobile phones currently out in the wild come with an FM radio?

[jesus caro Posted Apr 14th 2010 1:20AM]

To josh and paul: Skip the excuses of the commercials and the casting (wake up call): this is a technology blog, not an actors guild.

Peek your head around the fanboyism of apple's giant ween and actually see this as a phone for a potential niche.

I.E: A Helio idealized phone (which was a popular franchise), but obviously not enough without leasing its own network, thus bankrupting the company.

Are you people this stubborn?

[Wesscoast Posted Apr 14th 2010 1:32AM]

@jesus caro

LOL... Woah, Helio... long time no see, any other disasters you wanna recreate? How about the Pippin.. maybe the Foleo... there's gotta be some amazing products like the Helio that just had the wrong message.

Do you think Helio + FlamingNYCHipsterMichaelCeraStereotype is the right niche for Microsoft right now? I always thought that was kind of a Christmasy thing.

[Mind Posted Apr 14th 2010 1:27AM]

*Cold water...meet pimpled geek's face* This phone is not for you and will sell like hotcakes.

[Johnny Rockets Posted Apr 14th 2010 1:30AM]

This phone for $50 or less

$10-$15 data plan

BOOM!!!

Microsoft just sets off a nuclear bomb.

They now have KIDS using Silverlight, Bing, Zune music, and a host of other Microsoft products.

Hell, if I were Microsoft, I'd subsidize this phone to make SURE it'd be free on contract.

Whether you like the phone or not, this is downright BRILLIANT.

[jesus caro Posted Apr 14th 2010 1:45AM]

@Wesscoast

Wesscoast(On microsoft):" Microsoft is like William Hung, the 'She Bangs She Bangs' kid from American Idol...."

Just taking a look at your profile makes me vomit with your brash ignorance.

[Wesscoast Posted Apr 14th 2010 2:32AM]

@jesus caro

Finally! A comment with some substance and specifics....oh..nope..just more BS.

[sgraphics Posted Apr 14th 2010 1:54AM]

Josh, your editorial was very good!

[Mind Posted Apr 14th 2010 1:55AM]

@hated one

A 13 yr old can "desire" an iPhone all they want. Most parents don't buy kids expensive phones. And by "most parents", I mean the overwhelming majority of parents who live in reality, not nerdville. I believe that these phones aren't being marketed to 'tweens' at all but to 10-18 yr olds who are on their parent's contracts. The online storage and wen-based retrieval of data is veiled parental control for those who choose to use it as such. This is a very "smart phone" from MS.

[talhamid Posted Apr 14th 2010 1:59AM]

Wow, wow, wow.

It is stunning to see such deep thoughts, objective (?) analyses, eloquent metaphors, and understanding of market dynamics from the Engadget contingent.

Predictably, it is a Microsoft product, and predictably, everyone is doing their best to make us all hapless, uneducated masses see how broken it is, how it totally not worth it, how it pales in comparison to Apple products (with a cursory RIM mention thrown in for good measure and 'objectivity' purposes).

So now, in the post-Iphone world, there aren't supposed to be low-specced phone. There aren't supposed to be phones that do one thing well (like the KINs). In fact, there aren't supposed to be any PHONES other than Iphone and anyone else should be pummelled, dissed, and lynched just for bringing out a touch phone.

I wonder when such amazing powers of objective analysis will be applied to Apple products on this site.

[mocax Posted Apr 14th 2010 2:13AM]

looking forward to the day where the phone/handheld is just a thin client, everything else is from the cloud.

like a game streaming thingy that lets you play crysis on a phone.

all the phone needs is enough memory to process input, decoding and displaying information.

no more downloading, no more need for GBs of storage, just upload and upload and upload.... :D

[Meh1 Posted Apr 14th 2010 2:13AM]

This kin 1/2 looks like the phone you might give to your school aged child to keep them happy until they realize they need a grown up smartphone. I'm sure 8 year olds will be intrigued by it.

All kidding aside, that is a valid market Microsoft wants the kin to be "kin" to those salty fries Ronny McDonald wants to dish out to your kids waiting to clog their arteries and create life long addicts. When they want a grown up smartphone, perhaps they'll want a Windows phone as opposed to an iPhone or an Android unit. Kinda like dishing out $7 for a Mickey D Angus burger.

That better be what Microsoft is thinking here...because its the only thing that makes any sort of sense. Trouble is...Microsoft never was all to good at getting the "cool" thing nailed down.

[Wesscoast Posted Apr 14th 2010 3:38AM]

@Meh1

Kids? They show 18 year olds in the ad, the guy at the bar looks about 26... They... exist in another dimension where 99 dollar smartphones that literally do EVERYTHING (and don't look like something from Batmans utility belt).. and yet seem totally content with....Kin...:(

[Mustafa Posted Apr 14th 2010 2:21AM]

This is shipping before WP7,right? Well maybe some things like gaming might be added later once WP7 is released.

[ntsiotinos Posted Apr 14th 2010 2:24AM]

I can see where MS is coming from. I have watched many people (including my wife) and all they do is communicate via social networking - text messages and phone calls are just too expensive compared to data plans that are pretty much unlimited if the main thing you are doing is chatting. It might be a different situation however if you start sending huge picture and video files around.......

[Atomic2Mod Posted Apr 14th 2010 2:39AM]

Kin will appeal to 13-17 year olds with families who are one a good plan, like the Sprint Everything Family Plans. One BIG drawback though: My teens would love the social upkeep part of it, CANNOT live without email and definitely wouldn't do without a music player on the phone - so removable storage is essential! And who would think of a social phone without a calendar to keep your social going-ons lined up and easy to find?

[pinktac0yum Posted Apr 14th 2010 3:08AM]

looks like there are people who digging kin and can't wait to get it. facebook kin fan page already has over 10k fans and counting just in 2 days.
http://www.facebook.com/KIN?ref=search&sid=609452448.2784387426..1#!/KIN?v=wall&ref=search

[Wesscoast Posted Apr 14th 2010 4:38AM]

By the way, Kin is what happens when you let Microsoft run Interface Design... Dear God... someone put the photocopiers back on please.

[nyboy1 Posted Apr 14th 2010 5:57AM]

I love THE kin, i' m 18 and that's why. However i have an iPod touch and like it even better. Actually i would like à kin app for my iPod touch.

But if THEu would sell it in belgium for 199 without subsidy, they would own THE market , because in belgium an iPhone 3g costs 475 euro. That's why!

( in belgium cariers do not subsidy phones)

[Ravenwoods Posted Apr 14th 2010 6:56AM]

Wow! KIN is awesome! Phones are about communication and keeping in touch for me mainly so it does 'that' side of things perfectly! And the KIN cloud is amazing too! I so hope Microsoft actually integrates this kind of social experience in Win7 as an ad on!
I think I will get a Kin 1 due to extreme portability! I hope it gets available in Australia!

[Miakandogadget Posted Apr 14th 2010 7:20AM]

I'm going to be frank here, real frank. Like alot of things that spew out of Redmond, this is a piece of shit! Shitty, shitty, shit!

[CmonMan Posted Apr 14th 2010 7:30AM]

ITS ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!

I'm seriously dissapointed that people are not discussing the real issue behind this launch which is that Microsoft is again throwing away some serious money after misguided strategy which will in the end turn into a big FAT ZERO (0) in shareholder return. Engadget should ask the executives at their next meeting how much is the Kin costing in development dollars and how much they expect to make back.

Seriously, Microsoft now has 4 count them (4) competing product lines to maintain. Kin, Windows Phone 7, Windows Mobile 6.5 and Zune (I include Zune even though it does not have a cellular radio because it overlaps significantly in terms of platform). I know that the Phone 7 and Zune can run games etc but they will still need their own development teams for cell radio etc..

Who here believes that this will continue....anyoine...Beuller...Beuller... This is Steve Ballmer with no technical acumen and being counselled by a bunch of Microsoft inept execs more concerned about being promoted. Any competent company (Apple, Google....) would focus on one platform. Only MIcrosoft with their wads of cash from their Windows monopoly (which is the only MSFT division to make SERIOUS cash) can afford to throw away money to keep execs employed.

Microsoft should focus on 1 platform (Zune or WIndows 7) fire everyone else and return the money to the shareholders since it is obvious that they cannot spend it any better than we can (I mean in terms of shareholder value).

Microsoft has been making Windows Mobile for what 1 year? NO, more like 6 or 7 years!!!!! C'mon Man! Focus on WIndows, Exchange, SQL Server and Office. Spin everything else into their own company and return the money to the shareholders (and fire those useless MS Lifers that have done such a stellar job guiding the monopoly, like it couldn't manage itself...Vista...wow).

C'mon Man!!!

[Ruefrak Posted Apr 14th 2010 7:41AM]

One more thing to all those people posting comments that they are the target demographic for this phone because they are a teen and yet they have no interest in this phone.
The point needs to be made that YOU are not the target market for this phone, regardless of your age. You are interested in technology. That is why you read Engadget. Above that though, you are posting comments on Engadget, which puts you into a different category all together.
Now, of course most of the editors at Engadget aren't going to like this phone, because this phone isn't designed for them. These guys are very technically literate and when they look at a phone, their concerns go way beyond "does it make calls." But to the hordes of roaming teens I see wandering the malls/streets/parks with their faces buried in a phone and their thumbs typing away, this is probably what they want. I see a lot of kids texting on their phones, and they are not using smartphones. Very few have iPhones, and a lot of teens I talk to have no interest in the iPhone. What? No interest in the iPhone? How is that possible? Well, maybe it's because that while all teens want to fit in, something they also want is to be different. Everyone I talk to who is in high school has the mindset that if they have an iPhone, they're just some mindless sheep and just like everyone else.
So I'm sure this is going to be a really good alternative... if the monthly plans are cheap.

[mtor82 Posted Apr 14th 2010 8:06AM]

I agree with sam, once you pull out the camera you become an observer instead of living in the moment or memories.

[Verythrax Posted Apr 14th 2010 8:33AM]

I think some engadget editors need to learn the concept of "market segment" ;)

[dayznfuz Posted Apr 14th 2010 9:00AM]

This product will be a success or failure purely on it's pricing. If the data plan is low (10$/month or less), this has the potential to be a huge hit. If the pricing is equal to smartphone data plans, that will surely kill these phones.

People talk about Apple's (and every other smartphone manufacturer) genius in product and UI design. But for me, their genius is in marketing. They've convinced everyone that they NEED a smartphone, when they only need a more connected featurephone. Which is exactly what the Kin phones delivers.

I'm a professional with lots of disposable income, and if I'm being completely honest, can't really justify the data plans on the smartphones. I use my phone to make calls and stay connected with my friends and family. That's it. Apps? I haven't encountered an app yet that makes a significant difference in my daily life. Email? I'm always around computers at home and work -- and frankly, friends and family tend to text more than email these days anyway. Internet? Youtube? Fairly limited appeal on a form factor as small as a phone.

There's a reason why the majority of phones owners out there (including my highly paid colleagues) have feature phones. Smartphones require data plans that for most people are hard to justify.

[bjd223 Posted Apr 14th 2010 9:05AM]

Most of you guys are missing some key points here. These phones are not supposed to compete with Smartphones (on features and especially on price). I was a cell phone sales man for years and the biggest thing people would talk about was price. like 70-80% of all people buying phones wanted and bought cheap ass phones running symbian. The other 20ish % bought Smartphones and/or really nice phones.

Secondly going through features on the phones almost everytime I said Calendar/Tasks/etc, people would always say "I don't use that on my phone". This phone is not for a niche market, we as Smartphone users are the niche (if you are not using it for buisness, as thats a different market all together). Its for the market of billions of phone buyers that want something with a low entry level price and don't care about features that most of us probably never use either (I don't think I have ever really used the calandar on my personal phone ever).

If they can work out a cheap data plan for this phone they I think people will buy it up like crazy.

[gwells04 Posted Apr 14th 2010 11:28AM]

As always, more harsh thoughts on anything microsoft. but i think the kin is a good idea. Take my little sister for example... She is 18 just moved away from home in texas to going to school in arizona where i live. She would like a blackberry but i am not willing to pay for the expensive verizon data plan just for her to text. She doesn't play games on her phone and not really into different apps(and lets be honest here, most people get an app. and only use it a few times to show off what their phone can do then forget about it) When she comes home from school, the first thing is email, facebook, myspace and then checking out new clothes online. That's it! I don't have a computer anymore because of this. The Kin would be great for her, because all she really does anyway is upload photos(from her phone) write on her "wall" and post comments. This phone was made with her in mind. Its not for me, but i'm not gonna bash because its not for me, but it is a nice concept for young girls who just want to stay connected with their friends a lot easier.

[Fredfrombelgium Posted Apr 14th 2010 11:58AM]

Look, it's not a smartphone, I'm 14 years old, and i love what i see! I can't pay for an iPhone cause it's 800 euro in my country (we don't have contracts when buying cell phone, rebates or simlocks) , and the plans are like €90/month, this just fits all my needs, messaging, facebook integration etc.

Just those 'hipsters' who share everything exist, i think they just used too old people in their ads, but, me and my friends just do share everything!

Just don't compare it to a smartphone you should buy.

[debudebu Posted Apr 14th 2010 5:44PM]

depending on how much this costs and how quickly it uploads the photos it takes, i could see people, and even some journalists, using it as a geotagging, upload-anywhere, camera. if a photo is instantly uploaded it is instantly safe.

[khavalier Posted Apr 14th 2010 11:01PM]

So where is the review by the tween? I don't think this is aimed at 20-somethings as Joanna seems to think. This is definately at a young demo... maybe even pre-tween? Calendars are not important because that's what parents are for. You guys need to have some kids before you review a phone for kids.

[crichton007 Posted Apr 15th 2010 9:56AM]

I have a nephew in this target market (he's 16) and I know that he's psyched about Android and will wonder what the hell this is and why anyone would want it.

[maattp Posted Apr 15th 2010 4:16PM]

I'm 16 and I know many people my age who would drool over this product (mainly girls). All they do is text and go on Facebook, this is perfect. The only problem I see is that most of these girls want Blackberry's (WHY?), and won't buy anything until they have one in their hands.

[prikolni Posted Apr 21st 2010 5:39PM]

Dear Engadget Staff:
I am somewhat confused as to what you are struggling to understand about the Kin project -- it seems so clear and simple to me. Of course the Microsoft ad campaign seems pointed at a constructed, non-existent segment of phone users -- that is just what they are doing. The reason this is so confusing to bloggers is that it is aimed at the model of "Generation Upload" that Tweens and Teens have. It is marketed to the construct that high school students are trying to emulate (the twenty-somethings) with the intent that tweens and teens who are trying emulate them will buy it. The ad about remembering a night of binge-drinking with a girl is clearly the model of college romance that tween-teens who have not yet entered the world of legal drinking idealize the college- and bar-drinking life to be like, not what those of legal drinking age actually live. The same goes for the photo-burning ad. The point that Sean and Darren have made is right on -- this phone needs to be priced as a compromise between what the tween-teen wants (the iPhone that 20-somethings actually have), and what their parent is willing to buy them, so that the tween-teen can imitate their idealized version of the 20-something lifestyle they so desire, but that their parents aren't willing to finance.