Apple's decision to
block third-party toolkits and middleware --
particularly Flash -- from being used to develop iPhone and iPad apps has certainly prompted a
fair amount of debate around the web, and now it sounds like Steve and the gang might face some even harsher scrutiny: a single-sourced piece in the
New York Post reports that the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice are currently tussling over which agency should be tasked with a potential antitrust inquiry into the matter. That would certainly make some noise in the industry, but it doesn't mean much for those of us here in reality quite yet: assuming the report is true, an inquiry would still just be the very first step -- whichever agency is ultimately put in charge would then have to launch a formal investigation and
then finally file and win a lawsuit for any changes to occur. That's a timeframe measured in months, if not years.
All that said, we can see why the feds are interested: Apple's slowly moving into an ever-more dominant position in the mobile market, and forcing developers to make a hard choice about which platforms to target certainly puts the squeeze on competitors. We'll be following this one closely -- stay tuned.
posted May 3rd 2010 11:16AM
It's about f**king time.
@Chi
Someone tell me we didn't see this coming. I need to downrank someone real bad!
@who said what
We didn't see this coming.
@Wokis
Thanks for my fix!
@who said what
While the govt is at it, they might as well look at all the other stuff Apple has done that has been questionable. Seriously. If Microsoft had done any of this, people would have cried murder a LONG time ago
@who said what. We didn't see this coming.
There, go ahead, are you willing to risk your life on hitting the - button? Do you underestimate the power of the dark side?
@Chi I just wanna know why won't Apple let devs code on Windows; why do they have to get on OSX to do it? If they don't have a Mac, they have to buy an entirely new computer.
@Lord Vader
Vader, sir, as much as I do respect your witty comments, I really know, your grandma's basement block force chokes just like some buildings interrupt our cellular signals. So yeah, I think for now, I can afford to underestimate you! :)
But yet, I upranked! I guess that was your force-will?! Darn, it works!
@Chi
about time someone revolutionize apple for a change.
@N900
Not sure. I don't plan on buying a Mac any time soon. I used Windows most of my life but went to Linux/Ubuntu cause Windows just started to suck big time and now I'm dual booting it with Ubuntu and Windows 7. At this point, Microsoft Windows 7 is more "open" than Apple OSX will ever be. But I digress.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah I have no idea, but am equally concerned for that too.
However, if you're coming from a Mac, you don't have to buy a computer running Windows to dev there, you can just boot it from your Mac.
@Chi
HAHAH This is what happens when you try to enter the business and development world. Should have remained a tiny company but they had to get greedy and think they own the universe. MS has been used to this for decades.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah I once again tell you, I have no idea.
@who said what
hey lets not be so hasty! people have access to engadget 24/7 through tons of practical means. im here all the time simply cuz i can comment from work, home, and on the go with my phone...
commenting takes 2 seconds. just because someone comments often doesn't mean they have no life, ya digg?
@skyblaze
Flash might be "old" and sucks up battery life but to be honest, if I go into Hulu and play a video from there on my Flash enabled iPod Touch and my battery drains in 30 minutes, then that's my own damn fault, lessoned learned and maybe I won't go there again or maybe I'll have my iPod Touch plugged in next time. If enough people complain about the battery drain, then Hulu might release an app instead so I can watch videos from the app instead of from the Flash enabled site. Give us options and let me (the consumer) decide on how we want our entertainment, data, etc fed to us. Don't tell us how it should be done.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah Why would Microsoft release tools for OSX? its not their Software, they dont have access to all of its little secrets, not to mention its a competing product. Besides Office and Windows are both available for Macs... Sorry you are backing a monopolistic Gestapo-esque company man
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
They don't need to, Intel macs can run windows in either a VM or dual boot. OS X -- can't because of Apple's restrictions, unless it's hacked.
@Chi
Apple Haters clearly can't read..
IF it's true (which I highly doubt)
Then this would take months of not YEARS to play out...
And theres no guarantee that your hatred of Apple alone would mean that Apple would lose.
Lastly there's NOTHING wrong with Apple's stance. If you don't like their rules then go play somewhere else. It's THAT simply. Apple hasn't broken any laws here. More like some people think that they are in control and that they can tell Apple what to do with a system that is OWNED by Apple.
@who said what. Caught by my Jedi mind trick you have been. The new Force 4G transmitters where set up last night, meaning unlimited, uninterrupted Force Powers. So you are unwise to smack talk about my grandmother
@TheLondonExchange
Um...and Microsoft Windows isn't owned by Microsoft? How about Microsoft Explorer? That's like saying Mozilla or Google can never make a browser for Windows due to a lame excuse like "it's inefficient", etc.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah Windows doesn't require a whole new computer to purchase You just pay $100 or so, and then pop it in your Mac.
@TheLondonExchange
Requiring developers to "natively" code their apps for the iPhone platform forces them to choose to develop ONLY for the iPhone because most people don't have the time or resources to program an app natively for iPhone, and THEN for everyone else. Universal development tools allow devs to write apps for multiple platforms at once. Being that Apple's app store is so dominant, that makes their new regulations highly anti-competitive.
@html5FLOP Haha. What law? About Flash monopoly?
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
What is this, your third time getting banned?
@Chi
IF MS wants to do that then that's their prerogative.
And I for one would support them just like I'm supporting Apple in this stance.
And what imaginary laws are you Apple Haters conjuring up out of thin air? Oh wait that's right you're just angry that the iPad is a success and further justifies what Steve Jobs and Apple have created with the iPhone OS.
@TheLondonExchange
Their "prerogative" got them in trouble with the Government. Um...seriously dude? I think you missed the point here
@Chi Amen. I hope it is true. I like Apple design, hate this closed philosophy.
I think anything you have to jailbreak should be outlawed.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
You can it's called Boot Camp.
@fourthletter And thanks Apple for Bootcamp.
@Anatidae
You're insane dude.
That's your opinion and I get that but just because you want everything open doesn't mean it SHOULD. Nor should you force that bullshit on the rest of us who like Apple and Apple's philosophy.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
You can install windows on your mac to write windows software. However you cannot install osx on a windows machine so you must purchase an apple mac to write one. Windows is open to every computer manufacturer but osx is closed to everyone except apple.
@Marklitt and even if you do buy a cheap refurbished one, they don't have 10.6, they either have 5 or below, after that purchase you have to buy the Snow Leopard disk. It's either that or $600.
And that's twice the amount for the most expensive version of Windows 7. That's the point I'm trying to make. People just wanna code without going entirely out of their way. On OSX, all you do is buy one simple CD and put it in.
@Chi
Bad argument, cuz on your typical Mac OS X system, you can run Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome to your heart's content.
I'm also not stuck using only iTunes to play music through my Airport Express. I can play anything with Airfoil from Rogue Amoeba.
Sounds open enough for me.
As for Iphone, sure, they're clamping down on what they're allowing on that piece of hardware/software. Oh well. Buy a different tablet or phone.
As for comparing Windows with iPhone, that's not entirely an accurate comparison.
I hear some of the other arguments and I get it, but some of it is just ignorant hatin'.
@Chi I SAID THIS WAS IN the process about a month or 2 ago people told me I was just being a hater. Can't hate on the truth
@Lord Vader I wanted to -rep but I felt a force choke at the last second so I went the other way. My apologies my Lord
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah Ask Apple that question MS can be put on every computer besides a Mac(unless you use Vmware or Bootcamp)because of Apple
@html5FLOP
I see you have created your profile just to troll.. which makes you a dick of the highest order...
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
because PCs are a STANDARD. Macs are a minority reserved for lamplighter aged designers and non technical, naive users.
@TheOne. (Force Chokes) Apology accepted, Captain TheOne
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
Of course you have to purchase windows!!! What the hell will you test your program on???the point is you can use any manufacturer you want
@Failbait "Macs are a minority reserved for lamplighter aged designers and non technical, naive users."
So this case doesn't stand , right?
@Chi About time? OK, well let's hope Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are all hit by the same lawsuit, because what Apple are doing is no different from what the games console manufacturers do.
The difference being that Apple's SDK is free and anyone can get it, with just a $100 annual fee to post titles to their store versus the labyrinthine process to get approved as a Nintendo developer: http://www.warioworld.com/
The people raising this lawsuit just want to have their cake and eat it. They want to get into the app store gold rush and make money by rushing out shovelware to dumb iPhone owners, but they don't want to have to do the work and learn Apple's chosen language.
@Chi "If Microsoft had done any of this, people would have cried murder a LONG time ago"
Xbox and Xbox 360?
@reiththestud I see... Who is going to sue which console maker first? " your honor my clients studio worked rearry, rearry hard making this 360 game only to find out it's going to be even MORE work to write it for PS3! These workers have missed nappy time for 3 weeks straight. When will this madness end?"
Compete with Apple through innovation, not legislation.
@TheLondonExchange
It's really not "that simple". With Apple's increasing market share and increasing restrictions on what runs on their platforms, comes anti-trust inquiries.
I needn't say what happened with Microsoft, but Apple faces something all together worse than MS, because they make the hardware too..
It may not seem fair, but these antitrust laws should be better known as "fair competition" laws... Read up a bit on the subject, it's interesting.
And it really was a matter of time before this happened.
@TheLondonExchange
The debate is because the the FTC claims Apple is not a majority, let alone a monopoly, in the mobile device market, and as such is only being anticompetitive within it;s own hardware and software ecosystem, which does not translate into a market in and of itself, the the DoJ is getting pressure from many lobbyists and large firms to do something about it, and is "discussing" with the FTC to see if they can make that happen (since the DoJ can only intervene if it is in fact anticompetitive monopolistic practice).
If such a ruling was upheld, that a manufacture of a device can not exclusively choose the software to be run on that device, that would turn the entire industry up side down. You can not make apple do this and not the rest. Palm (HP) would be forced to allow the iPhone OS to be ported to their hardware, GE would be forced to open source their microwave's software pack for their Internet enabled microwaves and refrigerators (yea, there really are such things, though I'm not certain GE makes them).
Microsoft comes under scrutiny because they (were) a monopoly, and more so, they were enforcing anticompetitive practices on OTHER people's hardware. Apple is 10% of the PC market, maybe 30% of the smartphone market (not all phones, just smartphones, but even those are not mutually exclusive markets), nor are they a monopoly in media players even through they're the current reigning champ at about 60-7-% of the market.
This is Apple's stuff, not someone elses. They make the SDK, choose the language, and more. Fact; Flash barely runs on their platform and this has not been addressed by Adobe. Fact; Flash has major security and performance issues on the platform, which have been communicated to Adobe, but Adobe has NOT resolved. Fact; use of flash, or ANY other intermediary compiler or interpreter, prevents developers from having native access to the device hardware, access to recent code changes, and access to updated features and tools unless Adobe ALSO implements those changes, which they are both reluctant and slow to do. Fact; anything that can be coded for Adobe Flash can be coded to run natively on the device. Fact; the same developers are admissible to the app store as devs, apple does not hand select members (it only boots ones who break rules they agreed to, and that has been limited to a handful of very bad devs). Fact; use of flash or any other intermediary, prevents Apple from revoking security tokens from a single app, if there was an issue with Flash, it would break ALL flash apps to revoke its token. This list goes on. apple has VERY good technical reasons for blocking Flash (and ALL other similar code systems). If this decision were JUST Flash, one might have a case, but even then Java is FAR more secure and FAR more stable than flash, Adobe HAS been warned, and encouraged to fix that, and filed to do so with public statements specifically that they would not bend to Apple's will. they could easily be banned for that alone (until they change their course), and even if apple WAS a full monopoly, that might get them a pass in the courts anyway. (its not illegal to be a monopoly, and it's not illegal to stifle competition for legitimate or technical reasons)
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah you can code for windows on a mac. You would be a much better troll if you were more educated about technology.
@Okjeff171
Developers need to code differently for consoles because their hardware is different. Coding for PS3's cell processor is much more complex than coding for the xbox 360. They have no choice. Almost all phones run on fundamentally the same hardware. It's easy to code an app once, and then port it to various platforms.
@(Unverified)
The "technical" reasons are subjective at best. Besides, they are not only barring flash. They could have barred Flash explicitly, however, they barred everything other than C++ and it's flavors. That sounds highly un-competitive to me.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah Microsoft doesn't prevent code written on a Mac running, you can use non-microsoft products to code for it. Apple is preventing other languages from running on the iPhone, which is different. They only want you to use their objective-c language. And there's no way I'm touching that.