Apple's decision to
block third-party toolkits and middleware --
particularly Flash -- from being used to develop iPhone and iPad apps has certainly prompted a
fair amount of debate around the web, and now it sounds like Steve and the gang might face some even harsher scrutiny: a single-sourced piece in the
New York Post reports that the Federal Trade Commission and the Department of Justice are currently tussling over which agency should be tasked with a potential antitrust inquiry into the matter. That would certainly make some noise in the industry, but it doesn't mean much for those of us here in reality quite yet: assuming the report is true, an inquiry would still just be the very first step -- whichever agency is ultimately put in charge would then have to launch a formal investigation and
then finally file and win a lawsuit for any changes to occur. That's a timeframe measured in months, if not years.
All that said, we can see why the feds are interested: Apple's slowly moving into an ever-more dominant position in the mobile market, and forcing developers to make a hard choice about which platforms to target certainly puts the squeeze on competitors. We'll be following this one closely -- stay tuned.
posted May 3rd 2010 11:16AM
@Tuesday Morning And just to address this...yes, there are plenty of other options for consumers to choose from. That is not the point. The point is examining the behavior of the industry leader. Like they say, you can't have your cake and eat it too. All eyes are on Apple, for better or worse...and Jobs's arrogance may be his downfall.
Another noted Nintendo parallel? Hiroshi Yamauchi, god bless his crazy soul. While making them strong, he also nearly drowned the company with his tyrannical, heavy-handed tactics.
@HighestRanked2
Seriously, what is your personal problem with the concept of user's having the choice to install whatever applications they want?
This does not affect you. No one is saying you can't shop through iTunes.
Let's take music. If at all possible, I try and purchase music directly from the artist. It is simple for me to load my music into my iPhone. Now, it is far easier to buy that music from iTunes. But I like to give as much as I can to the artist. Other people might like to have physical media still and they buy the CD. You can always resell a CD.
Do you also take offense at the people who want to buy music from other sources than iTunes?
How does that differ with applications?
In what way does it harm you if someone wants to put Flash on their phone? How does it harm you if an app was programmed in another toolset other than Apple's? Right now there are over a hundred apps in the store build by the Adobe toolset - you might even be using one and you would never know. If the program works as advertised, what is the problem?
Are you a large shareholder of Apple that you need to defend them so strongly? When I read your arguments, you are very pro-censorship by Apple. I have to wonder what you are personally getting out of this.
I am pro-consumer, pro-developer, and pro-innovation. I don't think you can give a solid example on how censorship offers more benefits than detriments any of those three.
I was thinking. What if, tomorrow, Microsoft used the same rules for application deployment on Windows that Apple is using for the iPhone OS.
Well, immediately millions of applications would not be accepted (we don't say rejected in the app store). One notable one would be iTunes for Windows. It is "ported" using a cross compiler and it definitely does not use the standard Windows interface APIs. And even if Apple fixed that, it would still not be accepted as it duplicates functionality already provided by Windows Media Player and Windows Media Center.
Immediately millions of iPod, iPhone, and probably a large percentage of iPad users would find their mobile device crippled.
Apple owners might be smug that their computers still sync with their iDevice, however software developers will have to make a harder choice. Develop exclusively for the mac or for the PC. 10% marketshare... 90% marketshare.... Oh wait, PC already wins that statistically. If you thought it took too long for Apple to get their own versions of popular games and software - it will take even longer now that cross-platform development tools are banned for Windows deployment.
Apple is killing in the mobile space. If Microsoft exercised the same controlling draconian rules that Apple is applying, the iPhone (and even iPod) could never have exceeded like it did. Imagine if the iPhone and iPod only worked with Apple computers.
But a Microsoft approval only store would protect against Trojans, buggy software (iTunes on PC?), and morally offensive material (based on Bill Gate's morals.)
Not a world I would like.
@HighestRanked2
How do they function differently? Anybody could use the same logic on their own platform as apple are doing. Apple do it to "ensure a quality user experience". Why can't microsoft do the same on windows?
Windows got slapped by the EU just for suggesting they knew which browser was best for you, Why should the phone with the biggest market share get away with something similar?
@Anatidae
"I was thinking. What if, tomorrow, Microsoft used the same rules for application deployment on Windows that Apple is using for the iPhone OS. "
You can stop right there. Clearly you have STILL not figured out what the difference is here, so I'll explain it again. Apple creates the software AND the hardware. Microsoft does not. Therefore "the same rules" do not apply. It's that simple.
@Jack I can't figure out what you huge Apple defenders are getting.
You are either a large shareholder, are hopelessly romantically in love with Steve Jobs, or you are an Apple employee paid to troll and try and convince the public that app censorship is a good thing.
By the "Apple logic" Microsoft could apply the same rules to application running on their OS. It does not matter about the hardware. For instance, it is possible to hack into the iPhone hardware, remove OSX and install Android. Likely as Android matures more and more, we will see people utilizing Apple hardware for the Android platform. Personally, I like Apple hardware even if I think it is overpriced and I occasionally purchase it.
As for the software - that is where the installing restriction exists. You cannot install anything on the iPhone OS unless it is through iTunes and though Apple's arbitrary censorship rules - proven again and again to be arbitrary AND anti-competitive while enforcing a morality standard set by Apple Corporate.
If Apple can get away with censoring what apps can or cannot be installed onto their operating system, why can't Microsoft? By the same arguments written in Apple's defense - It is Microsoft's OS. If you don't like buy a different OS. If they want to censor what apps can run on their OS, that is their right.
Correct? If you look up the saying "The pot calling the kettle black" it has been updated to say "see Apple fanboy"
@Anatidae
If any of that is what you think of me, then you obviously haven't actually been reading what I've been saying.
"By the "Apple logic" Microsoft could apply the same rules to application running on their OS."
But Apple doesn't do that in OS X, do they? Flash works fine in OS X. Well not fine, it actually sucks, but you get the idea.
Your example of people hacking into Apple hardware is outside the spectrum of Apple's rules, isn't it? I mean why bother having this discussion if you're just going to say people can hack Apple hardware to get what they want, which goes against Apple's TOS. That is a fact, regardless of whether you think people are going to put Android on iPhones en masse (by the way, here's a hint: they're not).
" You cannot install anything on the iPhone OS unless it is through iTunes"
That's right. If you don't like it you can literally fuck off. That is how our system works. Apple doesn't owe you jack shit, and you need to get off that entitlement horse you're sitting on. Go buy a Droid if you'd rather do things differently. That is what we like to call CHOICE.
" proven again and again to be arbitrary AND anti-competitive"
Wrong. This just proves that you don't know what "anti-competitive" means. How is Apple stifling competition? Last I heard, there are plenty of other smartphones on the market. There's even other OSes, like oh, I don't know, Android maybe?
Do you see Apple preventing Android? Do you see Apple preventing WebOS? Being arbitrary isn't illegal, and being anti-competitive requires the prevention of competition. Since all those other smartphones and OSes exist, there is no other conclusion to draw than Apple is not anti-competitive. Proof of this is that other smartphones and OSes exist. This is not difficult to understand, you are just being stubborn and insisting Apple owes you something.
Get over it. Apple can run their show however they want, and they have every right to do it. You may not like it, but that's just tough shit. Deal with it.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
You are confusing software and hardware. WIth the physical phones themselves I believe that Nokia is stll the big guy. However, this is about third party software on the phones. In this category Apple is far beyond anyone else, especially with revenue.
What brought all of this to fruition is Job's open stance against Flash by blocking any apps built using it regaurdless on how they performed.
To compre this to the desktop space, a coding language and compiler were to exist that would allow someone to create a program for Linux, Windows, and Mac at the same time. Now, if Microsoft would step in and block any program written this way from runninng on their OS regaurdless on how it ran then it would be forcing developers to develop for Windows. This would be anticompetitive and have the book crashing down on them (and rightfully so).
If the FTC and DoJ find this to be the case then it would move forward, if not then it will be dismissed. However, this is what they think could be occuring so they are going to look into it.
Looks like there are some people of a higher power finally taking notice of Apple's unsavory and underhanded business practices. Apple deserves to have it's hand slapped big time in this case. This whole bullying of Adobe has turned childish. This and their patenting of time and space and everything in between. Someone needs to put a stop to the Apple evil and feed them their own medicine.
@Thor e
HTC and Jason Chen finally have hired a few lobbyists in washington, apple had this coming, surprised they got away for so long!
@Thor e
Bullying of Adobe? That's hilarious. Since when is refusing to use somebody else's 3rd party software "bullying"? You understand that because Apple created the hardware and the software, they don't have to use jack shit from anybody, right?
Oh wait, no. I bet you didn't actually understand that at all. Well let me know when you figure it out. In the meantime I'll just keep laughing at you, because the idea that Apple "has" to use Adobe's crappy 3rd party software is just hilarious.
@Jack You seem a little bit slow so I will type slower and use small words so you can better understand. Apple can choose to support whatever software it likes on its lacklustre inferrior hardware, however by forcing developers to make programs exactly how they want them made is bullying. HENCE THE ANTITRUST LAWSUIT GENIUS! Now I did end up using some big words there so I apologize but hopefuly you know someone with some good schooling to make it easy for you.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah Sorry that apple is getting in trouble for the same shit Microsoft did way back when how about grow up and be a man for once and deal with it... weve dealt with the Microsoft is a corrupt an evil company crap for so long and now that the shoe is on the other foot the fanboys come out crying... boo hoo your favorite company is into SUPER Fing SHADY business practices
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah Sucks when truth and reason gets in the way of your ignorant ramblings doesnt it "Doc" of course by now you should be used to looking like a fool
@Anatidae Understand, from all evidence thus far Apple if very anti-choice and anti-collaboration and all bully. I mean iPhone users cant even use their own music as a ring tone...To this day they still don't provide A2DP bluetooth. Why would one expect apple to act logically in the higher regard such as app development. They are all about control and giving nothing but somehow are very good at fooling people into purchasing their inferior devices to lock them into the apple iron maiden..I mean... ecosystem... They won't change until people wake up...
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah Says the guy who is pretending to be a Doctor despite every single one of his posts showing he lacks any reasoning skills or intelligence in any way... dont tell other people to get an education when you so clearly have none
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah But i just traded my iPhone for an Android device where is MSFT in that? i love most companies just definitely NOT apple sorry, im no Fanboy to ONE company
@Anatidae
Apple sells a an all in one house ecosystem, and it seems to be very profitable. So your saying apple should completely change its business model to accommodate less then 10% of us geek users?
I always find it amazing when people complain that apple has a closed ecosystem, yet thats same reason people buy these products. Im a big geek, yet i bought into the closed iPhone ecosystem because the walled garden is dam nice. please dont ever forget that having a closed complete ecosystem IS what made Apple and developers profitable.
And for the real discussion.
I do think its a tough break for developers, but you dont have to dig deep find an example of how 3rd party development suits can hurt an OS. If no one remembers Metrowerks PowerPlant look it up, it fits perfectly why apple would demand developers to use its own Xcode. Apple was moving too fast at the time, and PowerPlant was huge, but no matter how far behind PowerPlant was, everyone was still using it. and apple spent a shit load of time and money to try and help, but it was a large project and took away from progress of their own OS.
Dont get me wrong, it is a setback for most iPhone developers. But looking at the big picture, it can only help the progress of innovation (yes for apple only). What if apple decides to completely change the framework again? How fast do you really expect others to comply? Learning Xcode would only help developers to stay ontop of the game. Apple takes the hit if software quality degrades not the developer. you always have Android, Win 7, Web OS... to fall back to, always go where the money is. Ill be the first to admit learning a new platform is extremely difficult and Apples interface builder is a beast all in itself. But the positives out weigh the negatives.
We wouldn't be in this mess if Google would just advertise their f-ing phones.
# of televsion / radio ads ever created for the Nexus One worldwide: 0.
Wtf. Why?
The ONLY reason Apple is so incredibly huge is because they marketed the hell out of all their products.
Google (and partners) could have easily done the same and had Android phones selling 5-10 times as many handsets.
@HighestRanked2
Are you a stupid or simply a astroturfer?
The ipod is not way superior to Zune, more sales is not the same than quality.
@magallanes
Of course it is. The UI, the interconnectivity and the infrastructure are all superior. If they weren't, people would have stopped buying them. Like, years ago. But as it turns out, most people would rather have an iPod than a Zune. Sales numbers don't lie.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
Dude, this has been explained to you several times.
coding restrictions? ant this what adobe was talking about lol
This is stock manipulation.Anyone who cannot see the fatuous nature of this bilge is either stupid or willfully ignorant due a dislike for Apple.If there was the slightest shred of possibility for Apple to face antitrust for their control of a platform they built from the ground up, then Sony's PS, PS2, PS3 and PSP, Microsoft's Xbox, Nintendos Gameboy, Wii and DS... all of these closed, single source our-way-or-the-highway systems would have been sued out of existence long ago.
Apple's iPhone is not an open platform PC and Apple is under no obligation to let anyone write anything for their mobile platform that does not meet Apple's standards. To pretend otherwise is to gravely misunderstand these systems, or imagine Apple has control and influence of the market that the people who cheerlead these very articles dismiss as impossible in the first place.
@His Shadow
This is exactly right. Pay attention, idiot Apple haters.
@Bengal34
That Android fans like to make stuff up about how Android has surpassed iPhone OS in Web usage share?
Yeah, I know, it's just funny to point out.
Because Apple doesn't have a monopoly in the market, I don't think there is a valid argument against their tactics (which are wrong, but not provably illegal). If it were any other manufacturer, they would effectively be committing suicide by making their platform closed than everybody else's, given that there would be a certain degree of portability between those other platforms.
But because Apple is such a good manufacturer, delivers consistent quality, cutting edge new technology and features, and has such a maniacal fan following and brand image, it will continue to attract people.
If this process goes on and Apple does gain a monopolistic share of the market, then such charges would apply. Of course, things by that time may be so bad that other players give up the market, and it is too late to do any real good.
But I don't think that will happen. Apple has always been a niche market (pre-iPod era), and even today does not monopolistic-ally control any market (except the iPod. Maybe.). What seems most likely is that Apple will continue to have a small share of the market and maintain its haughty fashionista stance, while real computer companies like Google, IBM, Oracle and Microsoft run the real world. Along with Linux.
@terence probably, but like I said earlier it isn't really the US authorities they should be fearful of. Microsoft used the same policies and restrictions and found out the hard way the European Union doesn't take kindly to these practices . a Monopoly can't be proven in a court of law but we have all those EC guidelines which are very strict and they are already violating several of those. It just takes one developer or consumer to make the case before the EC to have them slap Apple with a steep fine . And by steep I mean billions of US$
One of the primary reasons - I think- they accepted the Opera browser in the app store was that the developers of that browser would have filed a complaint at the EC against Apple in the event it would have been refused.Adobe can probably do the same and have a strong case.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah You don't have to have a monoply to be in violation of fair trade regulations . You should really examine this stuff before posting a reply ....start with the site of the EC :
http://ec.europa.eu/index_en.htm
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
I haven't been active "for years " on this site so what are you babbling about ?? You obviously know squat about the EU and its regulatory commissions . If you did know about them you'd realize these commissions usually do not disclose any complaint filed with them but only release a bulletin when they have something to say about such complaints. It isn't like the USA with leaks left,right and center:)
No, it is not about a monopoly but about a fair trade.
Anyways, Apple can't change the rules half the way, even worst, Apple can't change the rules only for disturb the competitors.
Cause the US government has nothing more important to worry about...
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah Lol wow youve been banned 3 times ... just go to Gizmodo jackass, no one wants you here
The DOJ has only to read Steve Jobs' open letter about Flash to drop this antitrust investigation--its very clear, logical, and makes a whole lot of sense:
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
As a developer, I want my investment in learning and mastering the SDK to be kept valuable. Apple's actions keep my skills valuable, so more power to them.
@Col Forbin
"Apple sells an all in one house ecosystem, and it seems to be very profitable. So your saying apple should completely change its business model to accommodate less then 10% of us geek users?"
That's exactly what he's saying. And that's why he still doesn't get it. He thinks Apple should bend to our every whim, because he likes Apple products but not their policies. The problem really is that he doesn't understand that the world doesn't work that way.
Anatidae, can you really argue that Apple hasn't been staggeringly successful with their business model? So what exactly is your reasoning for them to change it? Apple knows exactly what they're doing. They're one of the only tech companies who really do know exactly what they're doing. All changing their business model will do is make them less successful. If you want that, you can go to Android and Google.
Haven't you figured out yet why Apple is so successful? It's because they don't care what you think. If they listened to you, they would lose all kinds of business. Jobs, regardless of what you think of him, is one of the only people in the industry with actual real talent when it comes to knowing his target audience. Obviously not everything he does is perfect, but you absolutely cannot argue with his ability to suss a given market and create a product that fixes it.
The successes of the iPod, iPhone and iPad are testament to that, as well as the popularity of the Macintosh when it first came on the market - that was the same thing, it was fixing the personal computing market, making it accessible to everybody and not just DOS wizards.
So for you to suggest that you know better than he does as to what people want, well... I beg to differ. You may love flash to death, but Jobs knows it hurts performance, and that's why it's not on the iPhone yet it's still fully supported on the Mac. This would probably be a very different story if Adobe had been on the ball and created a mobile flash that worked well. But they didn't, so here we are.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah ahum , it would be prudent for you to examine the reason why Flash didn't work properly on OS X .
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/adobe-will-accelerate-flash-video-using-new-apple-api.ars
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
Why is it so hard for you to grasp this?
@rik66
Oh that explains why flash crashes all the time, does it? That's right, it's both slow and incredibly crash-prone. You let me know when they've got that part worked out.
HA HA!
Oh, and while I don't have a huge amount of exposure to Apple products, two of my clients have gone through SEVEN iPhones between them. At no time were they ever at fault. Kind of says something about Apple becoming the #1 phone manufacture at the moment... as in says something less than stellar about their QA/QC. JMHO.