Replace the phrase "I want my two dollars" with the slightly more complicated "I want you to pay me more money for a game you bought used, even though we received full price at retail originally," and you'll have a pretty good grasp on the situation here. For a while now game companies have been waging war against used game sales, most recently resorting to DLC unlock codes in games that can only be redeemed once, making the used purchase less attractive. However,
EA Sports has escalated this practice right out of the stratosphere with its new "Online Pass" feature. Basically, the original purchaser is bestowed online functionality, added features, and bonus content, out of the
kindness of EA's heart (and a fun-to-enter redeem code), while a used buyer will get a 7 day trial of those things, and then have to pony up $10 if they want to keep at it. Yeah, you heard that correctly: you'll have to pay $10 to play
FutureMadden: Robots in the Red Zone online if you bought it used. The first title to get this special treatment will be
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11, and after that? Well, we're really hoping this doesn't take off, but the most unfortunate aspect of this diabolical scheme is we really don't see how this could possibly hurt EA's bottom line. Sure, it's evil, but that's never stopped them before.
posted May 11th 2010 10:04AM
I have no problem with this move. Used sales cannibalize retail sales, and undermine the incentive to create new and interesting games.
@Carney
That's ironic because with only a few exceptions I thought EA's company policy of the last few years was to "undermine the incentive to create new and interesting games."
@sykocus And you were right in thinking that.
@Carney
Well that's an interesting way to view things.
Kinda like telling a car owner that if they sell their car, the next person that buys it will have to fork over 500 bucks to activate GPS and Bluetooth features the original owner already paid for.
Go that way really fast. If something gets in your way, turn...
I can pass my wife on if I want, why not my games?
LOL...
Chickens coming home to roost I believe is the term.
Just wait...they are not here yet but they will come. You know the guy...he'll say "What's $10? That's a small price to pay for...."
It was this affable character that would spring up in every forum or online debate when these micro payments first started creeping in. The first time you heard you would have to PAY Microsoft for your own Xbox to connect to your own Internet connection, he was there. The first time you heard they would start charging for things like maps and character MODS, he was there. The first time they said you would have to pay for extra levels, he was there.
They stripped the community portion out of PC games and gave you the cold solitary world of the console then set about destroying the PC world they came from. They tore down dedicated servers. They snatched away the ability to modify the game. They plunged the terminal into darkness...and each time HE was there, telling you to stop whining...telling you to go buy a console...telling you that you're only complaining because you were poor and that any price they gouged out of your pocket was justified.
With each shout that came from his lips the game distributors got bolder and bolder...what next they asked could we charge for? Ah yes...USED games! We could charge money for used games!!!
They started tentatively. First they put in codes that unlocked features you would really want...but you would ONLY get them if you bought the game new. Buy it second hand and every time you went online you would be marked out like an adulteress forced into wearing a scarlet letter A upon her person. You would be at a disadvantage as your team mates marauded around virtual lands with unlocked weapons you could never wield. The shame.
And now the final insult. They will dip into the pocket of a kid who didn't have enough to buy the game new...negating his saving in the first place.
This is what happens when you ignored that FIRST insult. when you said "what's $10?". Each time you do that they WILL come back for another $10.
@Tes
tl;dr
@Gordonator
Well you should, because the guy I talked about seems to have gotten wind of this and he's right below in several different guises trying to justify this.
@Tes You sir speak the truth. they took our free online play and we opened are wallets, they start shipping games in pieces and charging for each piece, we open our wallets again. The problem is fools cant help but part with there money. I remember when the xbox 360 and ps3 were announced and the price of a game went up to 60 dollars. Before that most ps2 games were 39.99 only the n64 was charging 50 to 60 bucks. But hey its worth it its next gen right ?
If you dont show them that you wont stand for this then might as well get that second job now if you want to game, bend over and apply alot of lube and shutup and take it, because all of you help create this. everytime you purchase DLC or buy anything thats a micro transaction. You created this monster, now sleep with it.
Oh i hate gamestop and i think they rob people blind but this is not about gamestop its about people stoping this from happening and taking back what is theres. But you all already have your moeny ready right ?
@Tes - well said!
I can see the point (as far as trying to recoup for used sales), but in the end it's just greed. And greed begets greed, becoming the endless cycle you have pointed out: every time they push, and something gives, they don't settle for the new ground they gained, they just move up and start pushing some more.
Apathy towards greed always costs consumers, in the end.
@Tes
Honestly, the used game market is not what you would call a "community". Every retailer that I've set foot in that resells games will proverbially rape the consumer coming and going.
Played that game a total of 15 hours and want to trade it in two weeks after release? I'll give you $20 in-store credit.
Want to save some coin on this recently released title? We have it used for a whopping $4 off new!
See that last copy of that game you've been curious about? Yeah, it's not really new, and will be scratched to hell and back - a "demo" unit even though the game was never demonstrated at a kiosk in the store; and when you return it we're going to make it as difficult as possible even though you never left the store with the disk.
Such a community!
I get your overall sentiment; but if it's really about the community, you'd be swapping games with friends, and if they want to take their EA games on line, it's a $10 fee, UNLESS - this is key here - they buy their own copy new.
I don't see how this practice is inherently evil, unlike much of the people posting on this article. EA is pioneering a tactic that will be completely obsolete once the industry moves away from physical media. I'm fine with that, too; so long as there is some way to buy a game online, download it and play immediately, and have a physical copy shipped to your door that is either console locked or account locked. Both of those bits of data are available when you buy things off XBLM.
Better yet, why not help one of your fellow games buy their own games. If this is really about community, and playing games with your friends, then those that have should be able to help out those that don't have.
I don't see any reason to call the whaaaambulance over this.
@ytilanigiroon this is why people dont own anything anymore. if i pay full price and i cant do what i want and use it any any device that i own or sell it then what i am essentially doing is a non time restricted rental.
The fact that properties of the game can expire at the pleasure of the publisher is proof of that.
Imagine if you bought a book 300 years ago, you still the glasses to read it but the publish decided to remotely delete a second or even entire pages. But hey its not like people spend money to own things. Your just renting.
@ytilanigiroon
No one is saying the used games themselves is a community, read it more carefully. The map making and character modding were the community. The guys who would host games on their own servers were the community. But EA and Microsoft and Sony and the rest couldn't charge for all the free stuff people traded around games...so they're snuffing it ALL out.
The justification for games in the £45 range when I was a kid was the physical cost of cartridges. Well, that gave way to CD's. Cheaper right? Yeah, for a few months, but then the prices crept up again. Now titles regularly get released at that price. On media we could all go out and buy!
They take away dedicated servers...then complain that they have to keep these darned expansive servers running...that'll be an extra charge thank you very much.
@Tes
I reread your post; and really, fundamentally, disagree.
I didn't quite get the context on the first pass. To be honest I skimmed it, so shame on me. You keep touting this effigial "he" as something of a Loki. There, waiting in the background to spur the industry you claim to love in a direction so unwholesome.
What I see is a - sort of - voice of reason. There are limits to what we as consumers are entitled to. There are terms and conditions printed on the boxes of these games we play, in the booklets we used to read, and in the credits that we almost always skip after playing through a game.
Not for resale. These words, or something very similar, are explicitly printed on every game.
Full disclosure: I have friends in the industry, so my take on the matter will seem more than a little biased. I also grew up gaming, playing Snake on my dad's PC Jr back in the day. Moving from the times when a 128Kb game was HUGE, through the times where we have the debate to buy our games that have millions of calculations going on per second should be bought new, or suffer the wrath of paying an "extra" $10 to play the game online with friends.
It's amazing how far we've come in such a relatively short amount of time.
I still stand by my previous post. I don't see what the problem with any of this is. If you can't afford to buy the game at release, the virtues of patience are damn near endless. Look at Batman: Arkham Asylum. If your proverbial child had waited a few months after the release of the game, he or she would have been able to save his/her money and buy the GotY edition for less than Launch price and with all of the DLC.
I used to be that poor kid, playing through games sometimes years after they were released, and you know what? I learned that I didn't need everything right away, that things besides gaming were important in life, that if I only had a select few games to play I could get very good at those games - and when I did get to play those games with my friends I would generally beat them all. Looking back, I didn't have it quite so bad back then.
tl;dr
[insert meme du jour here]
@ytilanigiroon
Your forgetting one major thing when referencing Batman. Today, and for the foreseeable future multi-player gaming is where gaming is at and where it's going. For a kid who wants to play MW2 but is not that interested in the single player mode, this is a bit slap in the face. How much does the price have to go down before paying ANOTHER $10 on top is worth his while? If he can't afford it new, it seems, depending on the level of multi-player features, he won't be able to afford it second hand either.
I only played COD4 because I got it second hand off eBay. I paid about £16. at the time the game new was £30. A saving of 4 if I pay £10 extra to get at the most popular part of the game?
I recently completed the Bad Company 2 campaign...woefully short and not worth the £35 I paid for it...but totally worth it when you consider the hours I've put into the online portion. Online play I ALREADY pay for TWICE! I pay Plus.Net to get online, then I pay Microsoft for my Gold membership and access to online play....now I have to pay a THIRD person for online play?!? Really?!
@Tes FYI, as you seem more of a champion against this than most.
One common argument has been made about hosting on their game servers as justification. However, surely this would only be for ps3 network games, not where Xbox Live hosts the games, right? No, source link says this'll affect 360 games also.
@LordBlazer
"Imagine if you bought a book 300 years ago, you still the glasses to read it but the publish decided to remotely delete a second or even entire pages. But hey its not like people spend money to own things. Your just renting."
Yes, online game play has been killed for more than "a lot" of titles. That much is true. But I can't think of one instance of a developer taking a feature out of a game, at least without reason, and then charging you to get it back or leaving it out entirely.
Drawing an analogy between written word and video games is that games are more of an evolving artistic organism; whereas a book, at least in printed form is finite. Think of DLC and updates as second and third editions of books. Sometimes the words on the pages may have not changed one iota, but yet you are still charged a set price to buy the subsequent editions. Why no cries of rage then?
@Tes
With respect, there is one major logical flaw in your reasoning.
You did not pay for any part of the development of any game that you buy used, and your fee has not been paid. You are simply paying money to the person handing you a disk with a game on it. That is all that is going on here. If you buy a game from any brick-and-mortar used, none of that money is being paid to the developer of the game, and you are not buying a license to play the game. You're buying a disk with a game on it, nothing more.
"Online play I ALREADY pay for TWICE! I pay Plus.Net to get online, then I pay Microsoft for my Gold membership and access to online play....now I have to pay a THIRD person for online play?!? Really?!"
It sounds like you've bought the game new, so, no. You don't. If you're so vehemently against all of the micro-transactions, then why would you choose to play games that would charge you doubly or triply just for online play? I wasn't aware that there was a subscription fee for Bad Company, in addition to the nominal Gold subscription fee. Why on earth is the play so popular for that game? I wouldn't pay anything more than the $40 I usually spend for a years worth of XBL Gold.
@ytilanigiroon
"Online play I ALREADY pay for TWICE! I pay Plus.Net to get online, then I pay Microsoft for my Gold membership and access to online play....now I have to pay a THIRD person for online play?!? Really?!"
he means he pays his provider for internet, and xbox for online, that's his problem and something everyone who plays online with an xbox has to deal with.
no one cares about that.
also, no one cares if you don't buy the game used, really, no one gives a fck, the developers and publishers were not making money off of used games anyways, they couldn't care less if you don't buy their game used.
And if you buy the game new, it's business as usual.
@BrianH
The internet provider is non sequitur in this argument. It does not relate to the developer or the console. If you're not connected to the internet, why would you worry about DLC or playing online? Silly argument.
Once more, buying a game used does not entitle you to anything more than on-disc content, since that's the only property you're paying for. No license to use the game, even. Just the disk.
That's not the way it's actually handled in real life, but if you're buying a used game you're essentially bent-over and bare. Completely at the developer/publisher's mercy.
By the way, Tes, I think you're missing one of my points; this child you speak of could save his monies. Wait patiently just that much more and buy the game new, and we're not having this discussion.
Instant gratification is not something anyone is entitled to, but is something that has been taken for granted by a vast percentage of people in the world. Myself included from time to time, so that's not to say I'm better than or above it. But - Jesus, Mary, and Joseph - to quote the Stones: "You can't always get what you want; but if you try sometimes, you might find, you get what you need."
@ytilanigiroon yeah its called the text books. Thats why i go to the college library. I refuse to put my money behind crap like that. an artist sells a piece of art to someone who then turns around and sells it to someone else at a profit the artist doesn't sea apart of that profit from the transaction. So maybe its different for interactive arts but you know something if it wasnt for used games i wouldnt have even given certain games a chance because i didnt feel like spending alot of money to try something out. Because its cheap i take the chance i find a game that i like and i start buying new games from the same developer, but i guess the developer and the publisher of that game didnt make any money from my used purchase so its ok to dick me over. Micro transactions is the future. In the end the developers wont get anything extra and the publishers that worked so hard on this game will get the hard earned money they deserve.
@LordBlazer
Again, save your money. Or rent the game first; think of it as an extended demo of the game. If you like it, buy it. A lot of the big titles have demos you can download - speaking of 360 games specifically. What you can't get a demo for, you can probably rent.
Yes, you will be without online play if you rent - say, Madden 2011 - but you will be able to get a grasp of the controls and figure out if you even want to try playing online.
What I could see as a compromise is a 3 hour online game play trial. That is, 3 hours of match play and not just general game play. After the 3 hours you'd be required to enter the code provided with a new game or the option to play online is disabled. All it would really take is a few authorization servers, which they should already have, and check your account with how much time you've spent online with the game.
The people earnest in playing online while not being able to - or wanting to - pay for the game new will be able to get a taste for the game without having to pay; and then decide if they want to pay the $10 fee to open the online play back up. Which is less than going to a movie.
Again, this is for USED games only. If you buy the game new nothing has changed in terms of game experience.
...used game buyers will simply say "no."
I am ok with this. Simply being, I have never bought a used game because used games aren't that much cheaper than the New games. By EA doing this, people that buy used games will actually be paying more than the people who buy new. This in turn will hurt Gamestop, which I am all for.
@JCreazy The price is pretty much the same if you are buying recently released used games... Older titles can be cheap in which case the $10 isn't a big deal.
But anyway, who buys a sports title used? There would be a new one out in a few months...
they dont make any money off the used games market... if you didnt pay EA to play on their servers by buying the game new, why should they let you in?
@andyg8180
Because it's not a NEW customer or EXTRA guy on their server. If 10 people buy FIFA, then EA is prepared to host 10 people on their servers. That is what they have been paid for. If one of the 10 then sells his game on, he is no longer playing. EA is STILL hosting the same 10 games they have been paid for.
@andyg8180 WOW I agree.
@Tes If you go to a bar that has a cover charge, they only have room for 300 people and the line is out the door... When 10 people leave, 10 people are allowed to come in... but they have to pay the cover... you cant just use the side door...
The original owner owns the game, not the license to the server...
@andyg8180 You dont seem to understand the basic meaning of re-selling a game. The original buyer, whos money went to EA, is not playing the game anymore. So at any given time, its only one person using that one slot on their servers and they already got money for that.
Let me give you a simple example. You buy a used car. Does the original manufacturer get money from that purchase? Fuck no! Does the original buyer still drive that car? Fuck no! Does he go and buy a new car, maybe even the same brand newer model? Possibly.
Why should any manufacturer cash in twice for the same damn product used by only one person at a time?
@Bahumbug unfortunately the used car market cant compare to the used "online" portion of the gaming market... Toyota has no right to charge you again to use a used car.... EA has no right to charge you again to play Madden on LOCAL SINGLE/TWO PLAYER mode... but they DO have the right to charge someone to play on their servers because they are providing a service. Servers are a 24 hour operation... they need maintenance.
Back to the used car, if there is a warranty, you can transfer the policy to the next person, sometimes for a fee, most of the time for free... But that warranty expires. If you want to extend it or buy a new one, the NEW BUYER of the USED CAR needs to purchase it because they are purchasing a service...
@andyg8180
That's not comparable because the cover charge is for something the 10 new customers will also benefit from...the sheer atmosphere of the bar. It's also not a transaction between the 10 previous patrons and the 10 new ones.
EA's claim is that used games harm the NEW game market...no matter what the justification you all try to give it comes down to, is EA right?
I for one don't think they are. To say I wouldn't buy a new £40 game because I bought an old £20 game instead is foolish. If I don't have £40 I don't have it. All that will happen is I buy NO game at all.
@Tes
"I for one don't think they are. To say I wouldn't buy a new £40 game because I bought an old £20 game instead is foolish. If I don't have £40 I don't have it. All that will happen is I buy NO game at all."
Or you do what I do and just wait for the price to come down. I will never support gamestop or any other used game retailer, so this whole thing doesn't bother me in the least.
The other argument, that they might purposely hold back elements to sell later as DLC, shouldn't really affect anyone but them as well. If they hold back too much, then it shows up in game play as a bad experience. In which case, I don't buy the game and they've lost out completely. There's definitely incentive to include all they can in the original purchase of the game as it's a very cut-throat industry and there is always somebody out to make a better game.
In 5 years time you won't be able to buy hard copies of games anyway. All games will be downloaded and locked to your account, the death of second hand, shame!
This should be illegal, since the content and right to play that game have already been paid for. EA has already collected on that specific copy.
Now, I see how the used game market hurts their bottom line, but again, what they are trying to do here is double dip where they ought not have the right to do so.
@o TINY o
They aren't charging for the single player action in these games, we are talking about offering premium content with a multiplayer account that you can pay $10 to unlock. That's pretty fair rather than locking the game to 1 account like most online games on PC
@o TINY o
You can be all clever and pretend you know even an iota of law and use words like 'illegal' if you want.
A software license is generally non-transferable. So what's the legal position now?
Oh yeah, you're up shit creek without a fucking paddle
@schultz Single player action is becoming the thing of the past for me, I cant remember the last time I played campaign. Im already paying for xbox live on two xbox's (mine and my brothers) and now they want to charge me more if/when we use the same game? This is in no way fair.
@schultz No, its not fair because that content was already paid for with the original purchase. And the original owner is not using that service anymore. So, its still only one person using it.
Honestly tht seems fair to me
Ahhhh. Renewed commitment to my boycott against EA games.
How is this going to work with rentals (gamefly, etc.). If it can only be "activated" once, I have to pay an additional $10 just to play online for a couple weeks.
I see this as just hurting EA. If I'm looking to buy it used, I'm not going probably not going to want to spend the extra $10, or buy a new copy. I'll just save up for something I'm more interested in from some other company.
@jay22 You get a 7 day trial, per gamertag, per game. And it starts when you want, not the first time you put the disc in.
@ashleydb
Even so, for someone who keeps gamefly games for a couple of weeks, then returns, thats crazy. you now lose the positives of paying to have the game for as long as you want it, if you can only play online for a week without having to pay extra
I was going to buy a new console since mine was stolen. Not now.
Good I'm happy they are charging for used games, but I do think it's unfair if the game is bought for $55 and they charge $10 which brings the total to $65.
I also hate it when people download music for free AKA STEAL. Not a fan of stealing art in no way and I don't support it.
@Megazine Pretty absurd tossing piracy into the mix. It has nothing to do with used game sales by definition.
@Megazine So then it is down to GameStop to be honest about what they are selling, (i.e. they shouldn't sell it for $50.)
Not to mention EA kills the online servers for older titles. So in theory one could buy an Online Pass and have it taken away from them the next day.