Hulu says HTML5 'doesn't yet meet all of our customers' needs'
By Donald Melanson 
posted May 13th 2010 1:23PM
posted May 13th 2010 1:23PM
As you may be aware, Hulu rolled out an updated version of its video player today, but what you may not have noticed is that the company also took advantage of the occasion to briefly talk about HTML5. In a post on the Hulu blog (which has curiously since been pulled, though it remains in the RSS feed), Hulu's VP of Product Eugene Wei took a moment for an "aside on HTML5," in which he said that while Hulu continues to monitor developments on HTML5, "as of now it doesn't yet meet all of our customers' needs." Wei further goes on to note that Hulu's player doesn't just stream video, that it also must do things like secure the content, handle reporting for advertisers, and do "dozens of other things that aren't necessarily visible to the end user" -- all of which are critically important for Hulu and often part of contractual requirements. Of course, Wei also notes that it's possible that HTML5 will one day meet those needs, but it doesn't look like a switch is coming anytime soon.
It's kind of annoying Engadget doesn't use inline links for external sites.
I LOVE Flash.. it makes the sites I use ALL DAY LONG do the things they do that I don't want to be without.
If it ain't broke dont fix it... screw Apple and screw Steve Jobs too
@HighestRanked2 HTML5 makes a browser slower FYI and heavier.... To repeat what was said, read DDDDD setting the record straight. Flash is open source --- the future will hopefully be filled with more people that can read....
@cosmicinglewood
Warning: You should not reply to HighestRanked2 with any factual evidence regarding the merits of the Flash platform. He/she/it will continue to ignore all facts and also continue to spout moronic garbage. He/she/it is not at all capable of processing new information objectively, but is stuck in an infinite loop of idiocy.
I'm gonna have to call shenanigans on this one. The MLB.com At Bat iPhone app has been streaming video via HTML5 since last summer. It also supports authentication of an existing MLB.TV subscription.
@Galley It's not using HTML5 at all dude. It's using Apple's http streaming, but it has nothing to do with HTML5.
@ddddd ...html5 is just a specification, what they do with it is encapsulate a lot of javascript in it, and javascript failed big time on the web first time around...it is freaking slow and much more convoluted to program...stuff ends up looking like ass worthy of all the 80's 8 bit glory. Flash allows for native sprite manipulation in a game...enough said on that subject.
Flash has got this thing called a shared object that is held in the clients computer. You don't get that native with java inside an html5 tag. For starters, going all html5 on any site like that is to break the buffering scheme they got going and they know it is only possible with actionscript stuff at this time. Out of the box that is.
People should really cool the html5 stevo babble if they have no idea what html is and what java and actionscript are and how they work in conjunction with markup language.
@ddddd
You should try HTML5 on an iPad. It's a total joke. Upstream someone posted a link trying to show that HTML5 was as good as Flash. Using an HTML5 compliant browser I clicked the link and the animation didn't even work.
HTML5 isn't going to displace Flash any time this decade.
From my observations over the past month or two, this whole Apple vs. Flash argument boils down to the following realities:
The people rooting for the death of Flash are almost universally:
- Not developers of any kind, and usually don't even know what Flash is/does aside from ads and video
- almost completely ignorant of the business implications involved
- NOT content creators, but rather demanding consumers
- Totally unwilling to pay for content, and therefore hate Flash DRM
- Hate banner ads and somehow think that HTML5 banners will be any better (never mind that you can at least block Flash ads...)
- Do not understand that playing video will make your fans spin up and use CPU if the playback software can't use hardware acceleration
-Almost universally Mac users, and are totally ignorant of the fact that Apple has limited hardware acceleration on their computers, hence the fan spinups and CPU use with Flash
- Totally ignorant of what the restriction from using Flash to build iDevice apps even means, and seem to think Flash is only used to create basic word puzzles or similar
The people on the other side of the debate are typically:
- Flash developers and are therefore in a position to actually evaluate what features HTML5 offers versus Flash, and draw meaningful conclusions
- Based on those conclusions, completely unconvinced that HTML5 makes better sense in a production environment
- Per above, actually understand the business implications and therefore aren't in any hurry to switch
- Being developers, they are actually the ones who will decide the fate of Flash
Note the last point above, and re-read it over and over again. All of this endless bitching about Flash is pointless. Web developers are the only ones who will decide the winner here. If they continue to push Flash development ahead and innovate on the web (such as the RIAs being developed with Flex) and especially if Flash development takes off for the Android platform with Flash 10.1, Apple will have no choice but to cave or cede market share and face the wrath of their investors. Yes, my characterizations above are not absolute so sorry if I offend anyone, but based on the thousands of posts I've read on this subject they hold true about 90% of the time.
@beenyweenies
One more thing to add. It really seems that a lot of the Flash haters are not taking the time to read up on the subject. I really wish they would, because arguing with someone who isn't in command of the facts invariably devolves into angry attacks back and forth.
Case in point - Jobs called out the Symantec Security 2009 Report in his last salvo against Flash, claiming that the report had harsh words for Flash. The fanboys were out in droves that day parroting every word he said as if it were gospel. If they would have bothered to read the report instead of just trusting his words, they would have seen that the report was quite kind to Flash, and not so much to Apple:
- Flash was one of the least vulnerable web technologies on the list (3% versus Internet Explorer accounting for 50%+ of exploits)
- Safari was the second most vulnerable browser, behind only Internet Explorer, and the slowest of them all in releasing security patches
- Quicktime had four times more exploits than Flash
While those items above are pretty good for Flash on their face, the worst part is that none of it even accounts for the fact that Flash has 98% install rate. Due to that insane install rate, Flash should be the #1 targeted technology for hackers. And yet, it was tied for dead last in terms of known vulnerabilities, and well behind Safari/Quicktime even with their minuscule-by-comparison install rates. that's saying a LOT more about Apple products than Flash, but you wouldn't know any of this if you just trusted Jobs that day.
Please, Flash haters - think for yourselves, go do a little research before you repeat things someone told you and consider the motives behind people's words. If you actually think Jobs has risked market share to publicly trash Adobe/Flash just because he's a fan of "the open web" then you are being completely naive.
@beenyweenies Well said
@beenyweenies
Here's the thing:
- Most of flash on the web is ads, which nobody cares about.
- What isn't ads is mostly video, which can be handled by HTML5 easily.
- The remaining tiny percentage of what flash is used for can be done in other formats, including HTML5 depending on what it is, or apps.
The benefit of dropping flash is that you're not limited to a proprietary technology any more. Big picture people, big picture. Don't be so myopic about this.
@Jack
What does HTML5 offer that is so compelling that everyone from the freelance web designer to the major interactive agencies, all 1.6 MILLION Flash developers, should drop everything they've learned and worked towards over the past decade just to start over, with an inferior format, with uneven browser support (here we go again) that won't even be "official" for another 10 years? Yes, let's talk about that "big picture."
All this talk about "proprietary technology" is completely ass backwards. Flash may dominate web video, but it isn't standardized or enforced by anyone. You have many choices, and there have always been innovations like DivX, VLC player, Flash video etc. moving things forward.
Under HTML5, "standardizing" on h.264 is a huge step away from that innovation and progress. You are trading uniformity (which already exists in Flash) for complete lack of competition and innovation in the video space. If h.264 is the only supported codec in HTML5, then there would be no point in anyone ever developing a competing format, even if they had a brilliant new idea. There would also be no need for video players like VLC because the browser manufacturers are planning to implement "native" players. Never mind that they make browsers, not video players, and what that fact means for innovation on the container side of the video equation. So you now have just one single codec in play across the entire web, with royalties for its use going to both Microsoft and Apple as members of MPEG-LA, and all advances in media player technology are the domain of browser developers. We still don't have the uniformity that Flash offered because every browser has a different playback implementation, and the videos are no more efficient than Flash, maybe worse, so we still have spinning fans on OSX. What we do have, is no way to innovate in video until the W3C updates the spec every 20 years and crowns a new codec the winner.
Sounds like a totally fucked system to me, and one that *coincidentally* enriches the very people who have been publicly trashing Flash in favor of HTML5 - Apple and Microsoft.
@Jack
7 lines to argue huge paragraphs, thats it?? put in more effort dude seriously.... *downvoted!
@Jack off
Anyone else notice that Hulu just called it's content providers it's customers?
@kmeisthax
Based on your user icon, one can see why. Oh the irony.
HTML5 needs to improve closed captioning support. Till then, stick with Flash videos for closed captions viewing.
Let me guess, Jobs contacted Hulu to take down the post like the Ellen story?
@Johnny Rockets
No on both counts. You're welcome to try again though.
@ddddd
And what's your excuse going to be when Hulu finishes their iPhone app? Yes, they have been working on it for a while now.
I really don't understand why the TV industry is so worried about locking down their online content so much. They are so worried they'll open a door to digital theft they forgot they left the garage unlocked, the bay window open and that the side of their house is missing!!!!!!
Every show on television right now is available comercial free through torrents almost immediate after they air with better quality (HD) and can easily be made to download automatically as soon as available. The TV industry cannot stop this as it is created directly from aired material. So what does DRM accomplish? To DRM online content they're making the assumption that the viewer would be technically savvy enough to steal their shows and would if they could but that they are also stupid enough they don't know about torrents?
Business 101 suggest that the best product at the cheapest price always wins. Torrents are available quicker ad-free with better quality on more devices (after being converted which is admittedly NOT convenient). It would seem to me if the TV industry wants to compete they might want to capitalize on torrents weaknesses and make it easier to watch TV shows where we want instead of locking us down even further.
@Halopend There's no DRM in hulu or Flash yet. Don't worry. You'll start worrying after Flash 10.1 will hit masses. :)
given that one day, out of the blue, Hulu stopped working on 64-bit Linux, and five- six- months latter a screen started showing up saying "Sorry, Hulu does not on 64-bit work due to bugs in Adobe Flash" ( recently reverted to the older "sorry, error streaming, check your net connection" ), I'd say Flash doesnt meet any of my customer needs.
Its great cause I get to be a curmudgeon about both companies. Flash clearly doesnt care about making their software work on many platforms, and Hulu clearly is ignoring the fact that the Flash 10.1 Beta for x86-64 used to work.
:condi:
even better, now Hulu actually shows a single frame of the video its about to play, before telling me it cant stream the video.
I'm sorry. I missed something. Did they say that the current situation DOES meet all their customer's needs?
I'd simply prefer installing a plugin to reach tons of web content instead of installing app for every single website.
Only problem is that neither Hulu nor Flash has DRM for streaming content. It was around for AIR apps, but never for Flash. rtmpe is not DRM, it's just version of SSL. And it's not used by Hulu either. Ironically, real DRM comes to Flash in 10.1.
Flash with your pants to HTML5: blow Job apples sounds strange when they promote a browser sapping flog patrol.
Even the AJAX technology has just started to be applied to the webpages properly, HTML5 needs much more time to be on the scene...
What does this mean for the iPad?? :(
@rmanke
Don't you worry about the iPad. Hulu is building a special app for the iPad with streaming that works ten times better than Flash.
@ddddd Great overview, but it fails to mention how a touch interface deals with a rollover, which is impossible with a touch interface...
A lot of games use rollovers.
@ddddd
I hope the Secret Service got your IP for mocking the Leader of America. They'll be knocking at your door any moment now.