Very poor post. I think some of the editors need to take more pride in their writing. If you are trying to argue a point, don't insult your disagreeing reader with grammar mistakes. "Joshua Topolsky and I" should be [Joshua Topolsky and me." Besides the grammar, I thought the whole post was not very good. It didn't really inform me, it didn't have any good points to backup the fighting language, and I didn't agree with anything you said.
@greenestofteas What? Since when do we use "...and me"? You use "Me and ..." though "...and I" is more grammatically correct. Perhaps this is a specific case scenario that I can't quite remember, but I think you are incorrect (unless they changed language rules again, sometime in the past 20 years, no surprise if that's the case).
Also, when people can't see past superficial things I don't think they are open-minded enough to actually receive more of the point if there is one. However, in this case, I agree that the evidence is lacking, there is no major revelation. I went into the article thinking this could be one of the better Entelligence articles I've read.
The easiest way to tell whether it should be "... and I" or "... and me" is to take everyone else out of the list, and ask yourself whether "I" or "me" sounds correct. In this case, "just listen to me debate" sounds correct, and "just listen to I debate" doesn't.
Obviously there are grammar rules that describe it, but for me it's easier just to ask myself what sounds right. Of course, if you're not a native English speaker, or if you grew up listening to bad grammar, it doesn't work as well.
@juanvaldez Nah—he's right about the grammar. A simple way to think about it is to take off the other person, so Josh Topolsky and I becomes "I". And you wouldn't say "just listen to I debate the Kin on the podcast". You would say "just listen to ME debate the Kin on the podcast". So it's "Joshua Topolsky and me".
@juanvaldez I can see why your are confused; it's my fault. Here is the whole quote: "just listen to Joshua Topolsky and I debate Kin on the Engadget Podcast,". Now remember, I is the first person singular subject pronoun; it refers to the first person preforming the action of the verb. Me is an object pronoun; it refers to the person that the action of the verb is being done to, or to which a preposition refers. Now when you look at the whole sentence, you realize that "listen" is not an action that is done by the pronoun, rather, the action is done onto the pronoun. Hence, "me" is used instead of "I". For i Sorry about the technicalities. Just because I am in high-school does not mean I don't have a spare copy of The Elements of Style sitting around.
I do agree with you, but ultimately the point was made in the article in a clear enough fashion to be understood. In any event, sometimes what is wrong here (in NA) may be correct in, say, England.
I'm an American living in a former British colony and in my profession, I regularly have to consult my colleagues for structure and grammar as what is correct for my American English ends up being horribly wrong for a public educated in the British system.
With that perspective, being technically correct isn't all it is cracked up to be; unless of course, a person is writing a book. And even then we can find a whole lot of butchering of the English language.
I feel a bit ashamed, but I also thought it should read and "I". Damn I need to go back to school. I guess you learn something new everyday though, thnx.
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Very poor post. I think some of the editors need to take more pride in their writing. If you are trying to argue a point, don't insult your disagreeing reader with grammar mistakes. "Joshua Topolsky and I" should be [Joshua Topolsky and me." Besides the grammar, I thought the whole post was not very good. It didn't really inform me, it didn't have any good points to backup the fighting language, and I didn't agree with anything you said.
@greenestofteas What? Since when do we use "...and me"? You use "Me and ..." though "...and I" is more grammatically correct. Perhaps this is a specific case scenario that I can't quite remember, but I think you are incorrect (unless they changed language rules again, sometime in the past 20 years, no surprise if that's the case).
Also, when people can't see past superficial things I don't think they are open-minded enough to actually receive more of the point if there is one. However, in this case, I agree that the evidence is lacking, there is no major revelation. I went into the article thinking this could be one of the better Entelligence articles I've read.
Yes, "Joshua Topolsky and me" is correct here.
The easiest way to tell whether it should be "... and I" or "... and me" is to take everyone else out of the list, and ask yourself whether "I" or "me" sounds correct. In this case, "just listen to me debate" sounds correct, and "just listen to I debate" doesn't.
Obviously there are grammar rules that describe it, but for me it's easier just to ask myself what sounds right. Of course, if you're not a native English speaker, or if you grew up listening to bad grammar, it doesn't work as well.
@juanvaldez
You use "____ and me" when you are the object of the sentence and not the subject. Such as That man invited my friend and me to the party.
@juanvaldez Nah—he's right about the grammar. A simple way to think about it is to take off the other person, so Josh Topolsky and I becomes "I". And you wouldn't say "just listen to I debate the Kin on the podcast". You would say "just listen to ME debate the Kin on the podcast". So it's "Joshua Topolsky and me".
Get it?
@juanvaldez I can see why your are confused; it's my fault. Here is the whole quote: "just listen to Joshua Topolsky and I debate Kin on the Engadget Podcast,". Now remember, I is the first person singular subject pronoun; it refers to the first person preforming the action of the verb. Me is an object pronoun; it refers to the person that the action of the verb is being done to, or to which a preposition refers. Now when you look at the whole sentence, you realize that "listen" is not an action that is done by the pronoun, rather, the action is done onto the pronoun. Hence, "me" is used instead of "I". For i Sorry about the technicalities. Just because I am in high-school does not mean I don't have a spare copy of The Elements of Style sitting around.
@greenestofteas
I am really sick of seeing "grammar police" posts on Engadget.
Does it *really* matter? Seriously.
@DoctarPeppar
To the Engadget Trolls? Yes...
To normal readers? NO
The Engadget trolls refuse to go start their own blog which will be the most perfect blog EVAR...
@greenestofteas
I do agree with you, but ultimately the point was made in the article in a clear enough fashion to be understood. In any event, sometimes what is wrong here (in NA) may be correct in, say, England.
I'm an American living in a former British colony and in my profession, I regularly have to consult my colleagues for structure and grammar as what is correct for my American English ends up being horribly wrong for a public educated in the British system.
With that perspective, being technically correct isn't all it is cracked up to be; unless of course, a person is writing a book. And even then we can find a whole lot of butchering of the English language.
@byran
I feel a bit ashamed, but I also thought it should read and "I".
Damn I need to go back to school. I guess you learn something new everyday though, thnx.