AT&T cries foul over T-Mobile's 'HSPA+ is 4G' talk
By Ross Miller 
posted May 25th 2010 8:41PM
posted May 25th 2010 8:41PM
posted May 25th 2010 8:41PM
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how can att complain if tmobile is 3g att no longer has americas fastest 3g. And calling it 4g is lame cause it compares it to sprints wimax which gets slower speeds than i do on TMO. I regularly get 5 mbs in 7.2 HSDPA locations and have got 8.5 mbs in 21 mbs areas my n900 has a max of 10 mbs so with another device i could probably do better.
No one has 4G. Sprint ain't using 4G and same with Verizon. They all use 3G speed. LTE is 3.9G same with Wimax. They market as 4G but they ain't 4G.
Isn't 4G just short for 4th Generation? So T-Mobile's HSDPA could be anything faster than 3G and be technically 4G, even though it's slower than everyone else's 4G.
T-Mo's in trouble so this is a desperate and dumb thing to do
It all goes back to when the carriers were trying to cal GPRS 3G.
New from Apple: the iPhone 3.95G.
why wouldn't they call it that way.
all internet is calling the next iphone 4G,
from the naming of the previous ones: 3G was the iphone that supports 3G
3GS (supported HSDPA)
the 4G iphone should also not be called 4G.
well, I agree the operator is misleading the customer, and I sure hope if Apple calls it's next iphone 4G people will complain (read sue), as much as people will complain for that
first: HSPA means nothing, as it is asynchronous, the speeds for Upload and Download (HPUPA and HSDPA are different)
also: HSPA (to keep their terminology) goes for the latest specs: QPSK, 16-QAM, 64-QAM to 84.4 MB/s
while LTE (considered pre-4G, and not meeting the 4G requirements fully either, but accepted by the stanrd bodies is up to 100 MB/s
so definitely misleading, with a lie
@D1Only1 As the coming iPhone has not officially been announced yet, nothing about the name is sure. Rumor also says it will be called iPhone HD. No matter what, it will be the 4th generation of the iPhone.
AT&T is going to try and undermine T-Mobile's network more and more in the coming weeks.
Once T-Mobile covers almost 200 million Americans with HSPA+ 21 Mbps (theoretical) DL then AT&T will have no option but to cede to claims of a slower 3G network. They don't want to do that so the FUD games are starting early.
A big chunk of the 2nd largest market in the US (SoCal) should be fired up with HSPA + in the western counties so AT&T's days of having the fastest 3G network in the areas that count are numbered.
@JoeyButts The denomination 21 mpbs is not even theoretical as overhead, error correction etc. is included in the bandwidth. In a real life application 7,2 mps/14,4 mps/21 mbps are not really representative denominators of what speeds you can expect.
Also radio frequencies must be considered a shared resource. If you are just a couple of users in the cell you will share that capacity. If signal is reflected on surrounding buildings and you are moving as well, your bandwidth will take a hit.
Here we go again....just because att sucks and have the iPhone they think they can screw with everyone...improve ur network vastly and then go after other carriers...att=crybaby
As long as T-mobile isn't calling it 4G then they are safe. It maybe misleading to consumers who don't know what the technology is, but the company is not calling it 4G. They are saying that they can diliver 4G speed. Which is debatable because I read somewhere the LTE can go up to 50mbps in download speeds but that's not enough for a t-mobile to come out with a PR letter. But I do wonder if this will be a wasteful investment if LTE kick off and cell phone manufactures start making LTE based handsets only. I guess that will be a long way from now because people will still have edge and 3g based devices. But will companies invest in 3g devices that can take advantage of 21mbps speeds as apposed to 7.2mbps. I can only guess, but wouldn't it be less costly to invest in the latter and focus on higher speeds that LTE will be able to handle. I guess it all depends on the manufacturer and what deals they have with each individual carrier depending on exclusivity of their device. I bet they will follow whatever Apple does since that company has a strong hold in the economy right now.
What the hell is up with AT&T nowadays. I don't get them. They are everywhere. Fighting with the FCC. Raising ETF's. Not allowing customers to purchase iPhones without a contract (supposedly this has changed). Faulty networks in New York and California. They are getting so much bad press, you can right a novel with it. Why do they care what T-mobile does to gain customers anyways? Oooohh, I see. T-mobile has invested heavily on 3g and will roll it out in more markets which will be easy for them. Why you ask? Well from Deutsche Telekom's own mouth, T-mobile has gained a lot of "low based customers." These so called low based customers are very loyal. And now that T-mobile will roll out faster 3g in more areas with low and highly based customers, this will mean competition for AT&T. When LTE comes out, it will only be available where 3g is available with AT&T, trust me. AT&T will not invest properly on this new technology as Verizon is willing to do. I can see it 10 years from now. What makes this article funny though is how AT&T tried this to pull this misleading stunt when Verizon aired those "There's a map for that" ads to insult their coverage. I can see Sprint and T-mobile surpassing this company in the next few years. It's amazing how greedy and ignorant they've become
@dennis636223
Actually, if T-Mobile ends up doing the upgrades to their network that others in Europe (e.g., 3) have done to their 3G networks, then T-Mobile's HSPA+ upgrades could easily trump 48Mb/s...and that's plenty fast to run with LTE at the moment...and out of the box, LTE won't be able to push any faster than 20Mb/s at best here in the US. But time will tell.
As for WiMAX, I personally think it's superior to LTE, BUT Sprint wasn't smart enough to build that network out as quickly as they alleged that they would, and they'll end up paying the price... After all, is it any wonder now that Sprint recently claimed that the weren't "married" to WiMAX and are still opened to going the LTE route?
Isn't AT&T the little whiner....first they don't like Verizon showing their 3G coverage maps in their commercials and now they don't like T-Mobile's semantics.
@Socalfrank ha! so true
And you're all missing the main bit of the post.
T-Mo is claiming 4G SPEEDS, not that it's HSPA+ is in fact 4G.
FFS read the post with those reading comp skills your 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade teachers tried to give you all.
@RideRed Exactly! wth is wrong with people they can't understand that? its all so simple and Att is Garbage and running scared.
Let them call it whaever they want.
It is the faster http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh3/josesxi/T-MobileHSPANYC.png
At least At&t is always honest, I'm a very happy At&t customer and have been for the past 7 years. T-Mobile is a joke, Sprint and Verizon are great also, but their current 3G networks lack speed over At&t.
Honestly, I think WiMax 802.16m will prevail as a 4G standard within a few years.
I just hate how Verizon and Sprint are labeling their upgraded networks as "4G", when in truth they really aren't, yet. At least At&t is honest about their network and their services.
@The Missing Link
Thats right... Let them know. I bet in the future ATT is gonna come out with the first real 4G network cuz none of them arent using 4G. It dont even exist.
In the VW world we would say this is 3.5G
4G is a standard that requires 1 Gbps stationary/100 Mbps mobile download speeds. Both WiMAX (as the 802.16e being pushed right now) and LTE are pre-4G.
As for HSPA+, providers just messed up future "brand naming" of upgrades when when decided to call the first upgrade to UMTS/WCDMA (i.e. HSDPA) as either 3.5G or 3G+, since it was obvious there wouldn't be just one upgrade before 4G. Then came HSUPA, and now HSPA+/Evolved HSPA (i.e. 3GPP release 7). So let them call it 3G+++, 3.875G or whatever they want to call it, but certainly not 4G. Branding HSPA+ as "4G" is both deceptive and bound to confuse consumers even more when choosing a carrier.
Oh, and btw iPhone brand names have nothing to do with wireless standards, so please.
Call it whatever you want, I just know it's fast enough for me. In Providence, I just ran a test on my Nexus One using the Speedtest.net app from the Android Market. It says my download speed is currently 3.47 Mbps and my upload speed is currently 1.28 Mbps, with 140ms ping. I'm on T-Mobile and they recently turned HSPA+ speeds on here.
Can a Sprint EVO owner post your speed test results?
T-Mobile's 3.5G AWS HSDPA+ can reach theoretical speeds of up to 21 MBps in New York, New York
Austin, Texas
New Jersey and Long Island
Las Vegas, Nevada
Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota
Miami, Florida
Dallas, Texas
Chicago, Illinois
Houston, Texas
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Sacramento, California
San Diego, California
Seattle, Washington
and Boston, Massachusetts
which is faster than the only 4G the US currently offers which is Wi-Max thru Clearwire/Sprint
Keep in mind that anyone who was interested in switching over to Sprint for their upcoming launch of that HTC Evo 4G...you may wish to look at where they actually have WiMAX available (read: NOT VERY MANY PLACES). Additionally, T-Mobile's HSPA+ coverage rivals Sprint's/Clearwire's WiMAX coverage...so T-Mobile will have the edge in speed unless/until Clearwire upgrades their WiMAX network to 802.16m, which their CEO said won't happen until well after 2012.
Oh, and don't forget that Sprint will charge you a premium of $10/month to use the Evo 4G, whether you're in a "4G" WiMAX area or not. And if you want to use it as a wifi-hotspot...that'll be another $29.99/month on top of that. So...do you REALLY want to have Sprint? Millions of (former) Nextel users can't be wrong...they all flocked to Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile. There's a reason why Sprint is losing customers. Just read their community web site:
http://community.sprint.com/baw/community/buzzaboutwireless
well, to be honest, T-Mobile is right.
HSDPA is considered by many experts as 3.5G, just like EDGE was considered 2.5G.
And in reality, since LTE is mainly GSM based (Which is why it is taking so long for verizon to convert because they are going to run hybrid CDMA-GSM technology for a while after LTE launch), LTE is actually 4.5G. WiMax is standard 3-3.5G technology which has existed for a while.
in reality this is how it goes
GSM
GPRS 2G
EDGE 2.5G
UMTS 3G
HSDPA 3.5G
HSPA+ 4G
LTE 4.5G
CDMA
CDMA 1G
1xRTT 2G
1xEVDO 3G
and thats about it!!!