@a dumb cat And the lines are being drawn. Whereas it was Microsoft versus everyone in round 1, round 2 looks like it'll be Apple versus everyone. Funny, that.
Not sure you guys downranked me for saying the truth.
More importantly this hasn't prevented Apple and Steve Jobs from selling millions of iPads.
So yeah Steve sure is "sucking it". More like he's laughing his ass of how no matter how angry, spiteful, and jealous you guys get people are STILL buying iPads and Apple is still winning the bottom line...
@a dumb cat Uncle Steve is looking worse and worse every day. Since most of us saw the interview with Adobe + Josh, we know that
1.) Jobs was wrong about H.264 -- it's "open" but the patents surrounding the technology are downright obscene, and the MPEG-LA sues anyone who tries to come up with a truly royalty-free alternative.
2.) Flash performance is more than acceptable on mobiles, and compared to HTML5 (SVG and Canvas examples were used) it blew them away -- 30fps compared to 3 or 2fps! Jobs said he's never seen flash perform well on mobiles -- there are countless demos, maybe he can't watch them because his ipad won't play flash videos (rofl1).
3.) Flash will not have any huge devestating effect on battery life or cpu cycles.
The hatred here or any blog site about apple is phenomenon but when you look outside (the actual consumer), apple is selling its products like hotcake! There is a saying, hatred and success go parallel, more success => more hatred, less success -> nobody cares!
@ddddd It's the opposite for me...I have 3 friends that have iPads on reservations, and probably 80% with iPhones, 10% with Android phones and another 10% with misc.
Personal experience can vary depending on the user, crowd, so you can't really use experience as a real-world example as to whether the general public is getting rid of Apple products.
you got it wrong. The problem is that the overall performance of the browser decreases when the flash plugin is running. BUT, the performance of Flash itself is quite good on games and sites. With video, it could be better but it isn't bad at all.
Buuuuuuut, Apple's kool aid must taste great, so whatever.
It won't matter. You are spot on. Users are interested in watching The Office, 30 Rock, etc. They will just stick to ABC shows on their iPad.
OR
They buy a device that can stream HTML5 content AND Flash. Then they can watch everything and view the entire internet.
Seriously Apple - get with it. Enable Flash. Turn it off by default. Give users the flexibility to decide if they want to run Flash content. Why must you decide everything for them? Oh yeah ... it was never about performance or battery life. It's about competition (iTunes/App Store vs the content that is already on the internet).
I, and probably most people, don't care how many units he sell, it isn't about whether apple fails. It's about being against apple attempting to steer the direction of web content so that they may better control it or drive i-device content exclusivity. Apple should conform to the internet, not the other way around.
@1mc dont hold your breath, apple has already pushed adobe around enough, will be funny if apple is like ok, lets do flash for the ipad/iphone, and adobe just tells apple to suck it.
@a dumb cat Just because there not doing it now doesn't mean they won't in the future when they realize the high demand for ipad. There already sites in HTML like CNN, cnet tv, CBS & not to mention the abc & netflix app they runs great with no stutter. This also happened with the iTunes store tv shows so it will work it self out.
@a dumb cat The funny thing about this whole ordeal is... Knowing Jobs, no matter how right the world is, and how factually correct the statements are about Flash vs Html5... Jobs will always be a stubborn dickhead. Cause that's what it takes to command the loyal Cult.
@trainwrecka Rich media on mobile devices is new - sure the player is at 10.1 - but it could have just as easily been called Flash Mobile v1 - and no, Flash Lite does not count.
@a dumb cat You sound like a childish, sophomoric buffoon. Exactly like someone who would want to hold onto the crash-prone, memory hogging, proprietary, backwards looking technology called Flash...
Uncle Steve has never seen Flash perform well on mobile devices because he's only ever used Apple devices!
BURN!
And anyway... for the $820 the top end iPad runs ya... you could have a mini Deep Blue in your pants! What a full size notebook/netbook won't fit in your pocket... neither will the iPad... at the point you're carrying a man purse... might as well carry a REAL computer.... which Flash will run perfectly fine on in five windows!. (as well as android and other supported mobile platforms)
@trainwrecka I think some clarification is due. Flash 10 is still in beta so let's keep that in mind. Almost every Flash video and game that I've run on my Nexus One has run very well. The browsers themselves will lag (default, Skyfire and XScope) but actually running Flash content on a mobile is good. Anivide, Actually, Xscope just received a 2.2 update this morning that brings optimization with the Flash plugin. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet though. But that brings up my next point. There's still a lot of apps that aren't optimized to take advantage of 2.2 and that includes a number of browsers. I'm sure some lag may be due to flash banners and what not but let's see what the final release of the Flash Plugin and 2.2 optimized browsers bring.
Personally, i wouldn't go all out to use the comments section for any app as gospel. It just doesn't tell the whole story sometimes. Use it yourself before you judge.
@TheLondonExchange Boy your fanboyism is sad. My house is 100% Apple, From Mac Pro down to Airport Extreme, but even I can tell when someone's not getting it. True Apple is selling Millions. Ever stopped to think that, they could sell more..... I know, shocking right? I love the "haters", as you call them, without them the Apple products I have right now would not have evolved to what it is now. If all Apple heads were like you (Gawd forbid) my Macbook Pro would still be lacking an SD Card reader.
@trainwrecka Did you not see the demo from Lynch + Josh interview? It ran at near 30 fps...thats plenty acceptable for me.
The content you are talking about that you think "isn't acceptable" is probably video which is encoded in some format that said mobile devices can not decode with HW acceleration. That is NOT adobe's fault...but they went a step further -- they said they would do their best job to play the content anyways. Would you rather have had them just take that feature out and have the content not play at all? I wouldn't.
But every day flash content like games and such will be perfectly fine.
@Everyone Unless you have stock in the company (Apple, Adobe, MS, whatever) please, please, please STFU!!! Just buy it, use it (in the case of flash), or ignore it. I cant find one reason anyone besides developers & owners should put this much emotion behind any of this. Just watch and buy like the consumers that we are.
I'm just happy there is real competition at play here unlike in other areas of our wonderful capitalist system... and no I'm not being sarcastic.
@zeitgeist This is true...I am critical of them for taking so long as well...but that's in the past...The fact of the matter is that flash will be here in a few weeks...and it's going to OWN.
HTML5 sucks on the ipad and iphone OS. Go try playing some of the demos and games available -- they play at 2 fps, the controlls don't work, and it's just overall a huge mess.
@Roger Moore (Applauds) keep looking at the big picture my man. I hope all this squeezes out every little wish you and everyone else may have, out of Apple or whoever else wants to bring their products to our feet.
POWER TO THE CONSUMER!!! You want my money, you better f*%$in work for it like I did to get it.
The Chromebooks are here, starting with Samsung's Series 5, a cute little number that promises instant-on access, 3G connectivity, and long enough battery life to web surf with the best of 'em.
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Suck it, Jobs.
@a dumb cat
* sigh *
Job doesn't care. He never said that he wanted to force other companies to not support Flash.
He's just one person and Apple is just one company. Seriously you guys and your hatred is just getting pathetic.
This decision doesn't phase Apple one bit.
@a dumb cat And the lines are being drawn. Whereas it was Microsoft versus everyone in round 1, round 2 looks like it'll be Apple versus everyone. Funny, that.
@a dumb cat Ugh, why NBC, Why?!
@a dumb cat
Flash a-ah, Savior of the Universe
@TheLondonExchange
Apple will be phased when consumers goes against them.
@TheLondonExchange
If Jobs was just one man and Apple was separate from him, I'm sure someone would have spoken up by now... don't ya think?
In regards to the article, I like where this is going... giggty giggity, gig-gi-ty!
@a dumb cat My thoughts exactly. I had a huge smile on my face while reading this. How punishing. Too funny.
@a dumb cat
Jobs doesn't care.
Not sure you guys downranked me for saying the truth.
More importantly this hasn't prevented Apple and Steve Jobs from selling millions of iPads.
So yeah Steve sure is "sucking it". More like he's laughing his ass of how no matter how angry, spiteful, and jealous you guys get people are STILL buying iPads and Apple is still winning the bottom line...
@a dumb cat
Uncle Steve is looking worse and worse every day.
Since most of us saw the interview with Adobe + Josh, we know that
1.) Jobs was wrong about H.264 -- it's "open" but the patents surrounding the technology are downright obscene, and the MPEG-LA sues anyone who tries to come up with a truly royalty-free alternative.
2.) Flash performance is more than acceptable on mobiles, and compared to HTML5 (SVG and Canvas examples were used) it blew them away -- 30fps compared to 3 or 2fps!
Jobs said he's never seen flash perform well on mobiles -- there are countless demos, maybe he can't watch them because his ipad won't play flash videos (rofl1).
3.) Flash will not have any huge devestating effect on battery life or cpu cycles.
@a dumb cat
which mean flash is coming to iPad/iPhone, then Apple fanboys happy and every one else are happy as well. no argument. PEACE
@TheLondonExchange
I am with you LondonExchange,
The hatred here or any blog site about apple is phenomenon but when you look outside (the actual consumer), apple is selling its products like hotcake!
There is a saying, hatred and success go parallel, more success => more hatred, less success -> nobody cares!
Keep it up Apple! Waiting for WWDC announcements!
@DoctarPeppar Flash performance on a mobile is not acceptable. Or did you miss all the 10.1 comments with the Froyo reviews??
I'm not saying it won't be, but Flash is at version 10, and they haven't gotten a (decent) version down for mobiles yet.
@a dumb cat
On the one hand, lack of HTML5 support sucks.
On the other, IN YOUR FACE, FRUIT FACTORY!
Signed,
Linux user.
@ddddd It's the opposite for me...I have 3 friends that have iPads on reservations, and probably 80% with iPhones, 10% with Android phones and another 10% with misc.
Personal experience can vary depending on the user, crowd, so you can't really use experience as a real-world example as to whether the general public is getting rid of Apple products.
@trainwrecka
shhhh, do not let facts get in the way of fanyboys.
@a dumb cat if you require solely on HTML5, you blew it
@trainwrecka Isn't it still beta? I see "beta" when selecting it from the Market.
@a dumb cat
Engadget, you guys opened up a shitstorm. You see what you did?
Flawless victory.
@trainwrecka
you got it wrong. The problem is that the overall performance of the browser decreases when the flash plugin is running. BUT, the performance of Flash itself is quite good on games and sites. With video, it could be better but it isn't bad at all.
Buuuuuuut, Apple's kool aid must taste great, so whatever.
@metaesapuet Accept that won't happen. I don't know if you have realized, but Apple has sold quite a few of there crapPads.
@TheLondonExchange
It won't matter. You are spot on. Users are interested in watching The Office, 30 Rock, etc. They will just stick to ABC shows on their iPad.
OR
They buy a device that can stream HTML5 content AND Flash. Then they can watch everything and view the entire internet.
Seriously Apple - get with it. Enable Flash. Turn it off by default. Give users the flexibility to decide if they want to run Flash content. Why must you decide everything for them? Oh yeah ... it was never about performance or battery life. It's about competition (iTunes/App Store vs the content that is already on the internet).
@buy2gain English fail.
@a dumb cat You ain't a Dumb Cat :)
@TheLondonExchange
I, and probably most people, don't care how many units he sell, it isn't about whether apple fails. It's about being against apple attempting to steer the direction of web content so that they may better control it or drive i-device content exclusivity. Apple should conform to the internet, not the other way around.
@1mc dont hold your breath, apple has already pushed adobe around enough, will be funny if apple is like ok, lets do flash for the ipad/iphone, and adobe just tells apple to suck it.
@a dumb cat Just because there not doing it now doesn't mean they won't in the future when they realize the high demand for ipad. There already sites in HTML like CNN, cnet tv, CBS & not to mention the abc & netflix app they runs great with no stutter. This also happened with the iTunes store tv shows so it will work it self out.
@a dumb cat The funny thing about this whole ordeal is... Knowing Jobs, no matter how right the world is, and how factually correct the statements are about Flash vs Html5... Jobs will always be a stubborn dickhead. Cause that's what it takes to command the loyal Cult.
@trainwrecka Rich media on mobile devices is new - sure the player is at 10.1 - but it could have just as easily been called Flash Mobile v1 - and no, Flash Lite does not count.
@a dumb cat
You sound like a childish, sophomoric buffoon. Exactly like someone who would want to hold onto the crash-prone, memory hogging, proprietary, backwards looking technology called Flash...
@ddddd please...
@a dumb cat I'm thinking Apple should just cover the cost. They have tons of cash.
Jobs, put your money where your mouth is.
@DoctarPeppar
Uncle Steve has never seen Flash perform well on mobile devices because he's only ever used Apple devices!
BURN!
And anyway... for the $820 the top end iPad runs ya... you could have a mini Deep Blue in your pants! What a full size notebook/netbook won't fit in your pocket... neither will the iPad... at the point you're carrying a man purse... might as well carry a REAL computer.... which Flash will run perfectly fine on in five windows!. (as well as android and other supported mobile platforms)
@a dumb cat
Remember when NBC pulled their content from iTunes? NBC ended up having to suck it up and come back to Apple with their tail between their legs.
This time I'm thinking it's gonna be Apple's turn to suck it up.
@trainwrecka that guy also mentioned he was running alot of crap in the background so go suck on that
@trainwrecka I think some clarification is due. Flash 10 is still in beta so let's keep that in mind. Almost every Flash video and game that I've run on my Nexus One has run very well. The browsers themselves will lag (default, Skyfire and XScope) but actually running Flash content on a mobile is good. Anivide, Actually, Xscope just received a 2.2 update this morning that brings optimization with the Flash plugin. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet though. But that brings up my next point. There's still a lot of apps that aren't optimized to take advantage of 2.2 and that includes a number of browsers. I'm sure some lag may be due to flash banners and what not but let's see what the final release of the Flash Plugin and 2.2 optimized browsers bring.
Personally, i wouldn't go all out to use the comments section for any app as gospel. It just doesn't tell the whole story sometimes. Use it yourself before you judge.
@DoctarPeppar Of course the reason HTML5 Canvas is here today is because Adobe has been promising mobile Flash for YEARS and not delivering.
@CRA1G
That's pretty simplistic. Apple and Adobe have a long history of antagonism towards each other.
@TheLondonExchange
Boy your fanboyism is sad. My house is 100% Apple, From Mac Pro down to Airport Extreme, but even I can tell when someone's not getting it. True Apple is selling Millions. Ever stopped to think that, they could sell more..... I know, shocking right? I love the "haters", as you call them, without them the Apple products I have right now would not have evolved to what it is now. If all Apple heads were like you (Gawd forbid) my Macbook Pro would still be lacking an SD Card reader.
@trainwrecka
Did you not see the demo from Lynch + Josh interview?
It ran at near 30 fps...thats plenty acceptable for me.
The content you are talking about that you think "isn't acceptable" is probably video which is encoded in some format that said mobile devices can not decode with HW acceleration. That is NOT adobe's fault...but they went a step further -- they said they would do their best job to play the content anyways. Would you rather have had them just take that feature out and have the content not play at all?
I wouldn't.
But every day flash content like games and such will be perfectly fine.
@Everyone
Unless you have stock in the company (Apple, Adobe, MS, whatever) please, please, please STFU!!! Just buy it, use it (in the case of flash), or ignore it. I cant find one reason anyone besides developers & owners should put this much emotion behind any of this. Just watch and buy like the consumers that we are.
I'm just happy there is real competition at play here unlike in other areas of our wonderful capitalist system... and no I'm not being sarcastic.
@zeitgeist
This is true...I am critical of them for taking so long as well...but that's in the past...The fact of the matter is that flash will be here in a few weeks...and it's going to OWN.
HTML5 sucks on the ipad and iphone OS. Go try playing some of the demos and games available -- they play at 2 fps, the controlls don't work, and it's just overall a huge mess.
@roflcopter Actually it doesn't matter how good Flash is. Adobe tried to take down Apple. Now it's pay back time. It's just politics.
Google loves Flash because Apple doesn't. Simple as that. Nothing to do with whether they think it's any good.
One thing I do predict is that next quarter Apple wiklhave another blow out quarter and google will have another mediocre one.
@bjsguess This is exactly what I've been trying to espouse in the Flash wars - it's not about technological issues, it's purely about business issues.
@a dumb cat
How am I supposed to watch the last-ranked broadcast network now???
If this decision were made in the '90's, I'd care.
@a dumb cat
I am pretty dumb, but I can program in flash, but not in C or C#.
HTML5 give me headaches.
There are a lot of people like me
@Roger Moore
(Applauds)
keep looking at the big picture my man. I hope all this squeezes out every little wish you and everyone else may have, out of Apple or whoever else wants to bring their products to our feet.
POWER TO THE CONSUMER!!! You want my money, you better f*%$in work for it like I did to get it.
sorry bout that, but really, good insight.
@i1der I agreed this very much. just be happy that we have real choice and real competition to make online streaming better.
@bjsguess How do you enable something that doesn't exist?
Come on Blackberry enable Flash.