DoJ's inquiry at Apple purportedly expanding beyond iTunes practices
By Darren Murph 
posted May 31st 2010 7:18AM
posted May 31st 2010 7:18AM
Take this for whatever it's worth (which isn't a whole heck of a lot without any official confirmation from any of the parties involved), but the New York Post has it that the Justice Department's inquiry into Apple's iTunes practices may in fact be growing. 'Course, it's not exactly surprising to hear that authorities are now investigating every nook and cranny of Apple's tactics thanks to Steve Jobs' public thrashing of Flash and his sly insistence that the world shun Adobe while hugging HTML5, but we've still yet to hear from the DoJ and Apple about what exactly is going on within Cupertino. At any rate, the Post notes that a number of "sources" have confirmed that the inquiry is growing, most notably to include "how the iPhone and iPad maker does business with media outfits in areas beyond music." We'd heard whispers that things may be getting just a bit too dictator-ish in the developers Ts and Cs, and now it seems that the DoJ is "asking questions about the terms that Apple lays out for computer programmers who want to develop apps for the iPad." It'll be interesting to see how all of this plays out, but we can bet devs (and end-users, frankly) are hoping and praying for less restrictions in the future.
Hope in one hand and poo in the other........
@ReVrenHex
Hope they put the turtle necked Hunchback of Cupertino in hand cuffs
@drlisbon
Next: Department of Patents.
Ah the OLD justice, sometimes late, but always comes.
Apple sure could use a slap on the wrist and actually give its customers a choice.
@gargle
You already have a choice to either buy their products or not too.
In no way is it Apple's fault that no one else can offer competitive services to iTunes or the App Store, nor is it their fault that people can't offer software that works seamlessly on their devices.
Of course people are able to take shots at Apple cause they are constantly in the spot light, and apparently someone high up has stock in Microsoft and has it hard up for Apple.
Consumers decide with their money which companies are producing products that people like, and currently with how the money is flowing into Apple, everyone is loving their products and their services.
Then this whole 1984 thing everyone is on about, is about EVERYTHING being the same, Apple is not about being the same, all their products are cutting edge. Then people complain about not having a full OS on the iPad or iPhone, they built an OS tailored for mobile devices, why would anyone want anything different, if you want to do something serious then use some sort of remote access on the iPad or pull out a laptop.
But oh well, my opinion counts for nothing in this fanboy laden comment section.
@7egend You really believe all that stuff? I mean, all of it? It just seems weird, is all. Apple has long been criticized for their limitations on choice. When they lead the market, fanboys such as yourself make arguments like you just did, claiming it's not Apple's fault their competitors aren't up to the job. But then competitors overtake Apple (the Android platform will likely marginalize iPhone OS by the time WP7 is out), so what happens?
People still criticize Apple for limitations. See, it's not that they feel trapped, it's that people WANT to like the Apple platforms, but there are things they just can't get past (draconian policies), and want to bring them into the spotlight so Apple addresses them, gets better, and they can use the platform. Why do people like you shun all criticism? Why behave like cons don't exist, or are just another subjective thing and aren't Apple's responsibility?
Btw, you can't run around accusing others of being fanboys when you make absurd claims like the DoJ being in Microsoft's pocket after the past 15 years of legal crap (and a good chunk of it unwarranted) thrown in Redmond's direction. It just makes you sound silly, or blissfully unaware.
@josah
please let me develop ipad apps out of flash for this.
i promise promise promise only to make good ones. (not like they
wouldn't be screened to death anyway)
@7egend 1984 wasn't about "everything being the same" so much as it was about a totalitarian governing body controlling what people do and think. Strict control of the language people use, Newspeak, being one of the Party's means to do so (hmm. Controlling language....).
So you say "Apple is not about being the same," and then you say "why would you want anything different [from iPhone OS]." Doublethink intended?
@7egend
You erronously believe that anyone critical of Apple must automatically be a fanboi of company A/B/C/D.
People don't need to be a fanboi of anything to be critical of flaws or perceived flaws. Criticism is far more productive than tacit compliance.
You paint others in the skin of fanbois because it reflects your own tainted perception of yourself. You see in others, the very things you are yourself.
@josah:
I really wish 7egend had stuck to the point that consumers already have a choice: buy Apple products or don't. This is what really matters. All the rest of his nonsense really did a disservice to this argument.
Some people value other things more than platform openness. This doesn't wholly invalidate the criticism; it just means that some people are willing to take that trade-off in favor of other benefits. When the people who it's important to outnumber the people it's not as important to, Apple will address it or fail as a business.
And failing as a business does not necessarily mean having a minuscule market share. Mac sales account for less than 5% of computer sales worldwide, but it's still a wildly successful business for Apple. The same can be true for mobile devices. The opposite can also be true for Google. Having 60-70% market share may look great on paper, but if it doesn't translate into advertising revenue, it won't matter.
@7egend
LMAO, you apple boys must love that spooge flavored koolaid????????????
"but we can bet devs (and end-users, frankly) are hoping and praying for less restrictions in the future."
No we don't.
@Dusse we just hope apple dies :)
@smitty5569 No we don't.
@Dusse yes we are!
@Dusse
Man I LOVE restrictions. And I agree with Steve Jobs. Anyone who jailbreaks their iPhone deserves to go to jail. They're breaking the law. 'nuff said.
/sarcasm
@Dusse
You don't speak for all users of iDevices.
@Dusse
While I have and enjoy my iPhone, I appreciate that Apple may (or may not) intentionally be making porting apps to other platforms difficult. That might be deemed anti-competitive.
@n8equalsd I know, but for a whole lot (therefore the we). In fact I hope HP and Palm have a store similar to App Store when they release their WebOS tablet, I'd probably get one for my sister. (of course they can keep an open store and let shit in too, that's none of my business but that's not what I want).
@michaelwub Perhaps, and that's a good thing. To make every platform exactly the same will not be good for customers in the long run.
@Dusse
"Fewer" restrictions, not "less".
Pisses me off no end.
@Dusse
The OSX versions of Office, Photoshop and Firefox disagree with you. When applications are consistent across platforms, then you get competition based on the strengths of the platform itself. Which is a plus.
@michaelwub All three sucks on Mac.
@Dusse
That was my point. Feature and performance wise they're lacking compared to their Windows counterparts. Even worse, they don't seem to play to the strengths of OSX so I see Apple's point. It's an interesting debate.
@Dusse
I am a developer and I like Apple products (apart from my crummy macbook), but I *hate* the idea that I have to develop unique apps for every lock-in platform. I also *hate* the idea that anyone should tell me what tools I should use regardless of the quality of my final application.
The argument that developers should be happy to do this (or incompetent if they don't want to) ignores business reality. Every platform that requires its own custom software and development toolchain adds a large percentage to the cost of the product. We've been through this rubbish for a decade of having to make websites tailored to specific browsers, and I hope for a better future (HTML5 / js doesn't come close yet btw.)
I *can* develop for numerous platforms and technologies, I just don't like being forced to for no legitimate reason but lock-in and control freakery.
APIs and translation layers work in all other software industries, and until they work for iProducts I'm steering clear of developing for them. I would guess 99%+ of all apps do not require raw native code performance and could live with a tiny percentage hit for the benefit of being massively cheaper to produce.
@fubarweb:
I understand and appreciate your desire to streamline your workflow, but I think you're blowing things out of proportion.
Apple made it clear that it feels the need to control the programming language in order to keep its platform competitive. You need to evaluate the potential income from developing for Apple's platform and decide whether or not the additional investment is worth the potential return. If it is, then you need to build that additional development cost into the cost of your application.
If this additional cost drives up the cost of applications for the iPhone platform and users are not willing to absorb them, they will move on to other platforms that can offer the same (or a better) experience for a lower price. As users leave the platform, your potential return will diminish, and eventually it won't be worth the investment needed to support the platform. If – on the other hand – users are willing to absorb the additional development costs, then it has no negative effect on your business whatsoever.
It may irk you philosophically, but it won't affect your business.
Either have an open platform with compatibility and stability issues or have a closed platform and, well, a dictatorship yet less stability and compatibility issues. But at the end of the day we do live in the free world and so closed platforms will need to open up a bit and allow in competition.
I don't see why Apple can't have it both ways, Flash AND HTML5. It will work this way on the desktop and other phones so why not the Iphone?
Wake me up when Apple is the market leader.. It's their store, they can do what they want. I may not agree with most of their rejections, but they have the right to police their own store.
@SolidSnake
the app store is already the market leader...
@nabberuk Oh really? In which Market? The phone Market? Nope. The computer market? Nope. Not sure where you're going with this.
@nabberuk The App Store is a Market leader to Apples iWorld only, It is not the leader for all Smartphones in the world. Other phone manufacturers can come up with their own apps for their platforms.
@SolidSnake
Yes they should be able to dictate what they sell in their store, but they shouldn't be able to dictate what people do with their devices. This means allowing 3rd party stores or side loading of apps through something other than itunes.
And just because they're not a monopoly yet doesn't mean they shouldn't be looked into. In the music distribution industry in particular they're quickly heading towards number 1 and its right for the DoJ to be stopping any anti competitive practices before it really effects the consumer, not after
@MacArtStyle
But in reality, the "other smartphone" manufacturers are not market leaders in the amount of and availability of apps for their products.
Why? Because they did not see it coming. they were and still are complacent to the actual needs and wants of their client base.
Apple is not the best nor the worst at what they do. BUT what they do best is provide a series of technological tools that fulfil their/its desire to create a media hub environment for the general user.
I do not like the restrictions that Apple has placed in its products - hardware and software. And I do not like it enough to use something else. I had too many problems with other products too long.
Now, my home, office, labs and factory and all Apple-fied!
Cheers from the land Downunder
Out of all the responses to my comment, yours made the most sense. I agree with every point you made.
@SolidSnake
"Steve Jobs announced in his "It's Showtime" keynote that Apple had 88% of the legal U.S. music download market on September 12, 2006"
"According to the report iTunes comprised a whopping 69% of the digital sales market..." 2009
"...Apple's iTunes store accounted for a whopping 90% of the online music downloads." 2007
In US mp3 downloads iTunes has a dominating marketshare.
This doesn't differ anyway from the inquiry of intels business practices. In intels case they used their dominating marketshare to keep AMD off IBMs etc machines. Now apple is getting a look into their strategy to keeping amazon down.
It's their shop, but with 70-90% marketshare, they can't do everything they want to do with it.
@SolidSnake
A copy of one of my post further down
While the definition of monopoly that was used against Microsoft is vastly different than the definition that is being used against apple, both did/do have a monopoly. MS has one in pure numbers and a weakening one on industry influence. Apple has one with number in the DAP market( just not as big as MS in the PC market) and influence in different types of media ( music store, digital content on vastly popular devices. The latter of which is the reason the DOJ if investigating, Apple is rumored to have pressured EMI records to not participate in Amazon's discount pricing on their mp3 store, which is illegal if found to be true (kinda like the case against Intel and Dell,HP, etc for limiting AMD's processor usage). But the most influential part the the type of "monopoly" that starts these investigations is the monopoly on mind-share. iPod is used as a noun to describe any mp3 player by the public, kinda like Google is a noun used to describe searching on the internet, or like internet explorer is synonymous with the "internet" with the public. If these weren't so common place the Officials could care less if companies dominate an industry. The problem is that the public often thinks that the only way to buy music online is through iTunes, or the only way to search online is to "Google". That and when a company does something illegal ( like Microsoft and the Netscape fiasco) are the only reasons that the DOJ even cares.
@SolidSnake
I agree. Apple can do what they want with their app store because they own it. Just as I own a bus company in Alabama, so I can make black people sit in the back.
oh, wait... maybe we have these laws for reasons?
nah, I'm probably just a fanboy.
@DefPoet except the labels only offered Amazon the MP3 deal (minus DRM too!) specifically because they ALL colluded to crack Apple's iTunes store. In response to another poster, iPhone only has a leading app store because Apple stuck up and broke the Telco/OEM collusion on locking down CUSTOMERS phone features. The DOJ did nothing to actually help customers in these industries for years... but the companies involved know how to "talk the game" and take down anybody rocking the boat. And Steve loves to rock the boat.
In reality I think Steve has done well, but he's hung Apple out there on its own with few friends. The Labels, Microsoft, etc have all learned how to work the system. The only thing harder to fight than getting companies under the microscope, is being on the outside once they're all "cozy" with regulators and "industry standards". They're all looking to throw Apple "under the bus" under a mountain of technicalities Apple has avoided until now.
World domination to follow, what else did you honestly expect?
Seriously...
@Supply8
world domination by Apple or Google ?
@skateni
Let the sales show and companies compete:
Just going by the timeline and wealth Apple Market Cap is $227.7b and Google Market Cap is $154.42b
Apple started in 1970's.. Jobs resigned 1985 and cameback in 1996
Apple growth from 2009 Q1 compared to 2010 Q1 is 36%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_inc
Google started in 1998
Google growth from 2009 Q1 compared to 2010 Q1 is 39%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Inc
Looks like the new stud on the block Google is making up room on Apple but I'm pretty sure both have tricks up their sleeves... come'on Schmidt & Team VS Jobs & Team LETS GET READY TO RUUUUUUMBLEEEE!!!! (I used to kick a$$ in that game!!!)
@skateni
Let the sales show and companies compete:
Just going by the timeline and wealth Apple Market Cap is $227.7b and Google Market Cap is $154.42b
Apple started in 1970's.. Jobs resigned 1985 and cameback in 1996
Apple growth from 2009 Q1 compared to 2010 Q1 is 36%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_inc
Google started in 1998
Google growth from 2009 Q1 compared to 2010 Q1 is 39%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Inc
Looks like the new stud on the block Google is making up room on Apple but I'm pretty sure both have tricks up their sleeves... come'on Schmidt & Team VS Jobs & Team LETS GET READY TO RUUUUUUMBLEEEE!!!! (I used to kick a$$ in that game!!!)
the DOJ could actually be doing apple a favour in the long run. Forcing them to re-evaluate the restrictions they put on things.
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
If it prevents Apple from turning all-out 1984 on us, then the DoJ is doing everyone a favor.
Apple was the one that should have antitrust, not Microsoft.
Please, DoJ, make them support .flac in itunes! (;
@Marko: Also, divx, flash, etc. on AppleTV and the iPhone (;
@Marko
your avatar cant be real can it?
im big bodied and even my belly in not a sphere. That one in the picture is even rounder than a pregnant woman's! Not putting you down or anything im big myself, just saying you have a unique shaped belly
@DefPoet
tumour?
@nabberuk - unfortunatley, its not me, just a funny picture found on the internet. Mine is not nearly as impressive - now, can we just, please, stick to the subject (: