DoJ's inquiry at Apple purportedly expanding beyond iTunes practices
By Darren Murph 
posted May 31st 2010 7:18AM
posted May 31st 2010 7:18AM
Take this for whatever it's worth (which isn't a whole heck of a lot without any official confirmation from any of the parties involved), but the New York Post has it that the Justice Department's inquiry into Apple's iTunes practices may in fact be growing. 'Course, it's not exactly surprising to hear that authorities are now investigating every nook and cranny of Apple's tactics thanks to Steve Jobs' public thrashing of Flash and his sly insistence that the world shun Adobe while hugging HTML5, but we've still yet to hear from the DoJ and Apple about what exactly is going on within Cupertino. At any rate, the Post notes that a number of "sources" have confirmed that the inquiry is growing, most notably to include "how the iPhone and iPad maker does business with media outfits in areas beyond music." We'd heard whispers that things may be getting just a bit too dictator-ish in the developers Ts and Cs, and now it seems that the DoJ is "asking questions about the terms that Apple lays out for computer programmers who want to develop apps for the iPad." It'll be interesting to see how all of this plays out, but we can bet devs (and end-users, frankly) are hoping and praying for less restrictions in the future.
Apples business practices are so restrictive that it is like looking back to the 1800s when dealing with them. They seem to feel that the whole world wil flock to their doors just because they have pretty looking products and completely disregard the fact that they are getting royally ripped off.
I applaud this DoJ action but am sorry that Apple has been allowed to make so much money from their restrictive practice and are now in a dominant market position.
Hopefully the DoJ will fine Apple in a truly massive fashion and take them down to where they belong as a 2nd rate comuter maker who, in the free market only got 10% of the market in 30 years of trying. Little surprise then that they started locking down they products and ripped off all the Apple product buying public (who did not know better).
@rederikus
10% it's actually more like 4% when talking about the world-wide "computer" market share. 8% when talking about the world-wide "personal computer" market share and somewhere around 10% when talking about U.S. only personal computer market share
@DefPoet
I just do not get the monopoly argument. I think people are drinking cool-aide.
@awalk
While the definition of monopoly taht was used against Microsoft is vastly different than the definition that is being used against apple, both did/do have a monopoly. MS has one in pure numbers and a weakening one on industry influence. Apple has one with number in the DAP market( just not as big as MS in the PC market) and influence in different types of media ( music store, digital content on vastly popular devices. The latter of which is the reason the DOJ if investigating, Apple is rumored to have pressured EMI records to not participate in Amazon's discount pricing on their mp3 store, which is illegal if found to be true (kinda like the case against Intel and Dell,HP, etc for limiting AMD's processor usage). But the most influential part the the type of "monopoly" that starts these investigations is the monopoly on mind-share. iPod is used as a noun to describe any mp3 player by the public, kinda like Google is a noun used to describe searching on the internet, or like internet explorer is synonymous with the "internet" with the public. If these weren't so common place the Officials could care less if companies dominate an industry. The problem is that the public often thinks that the only way to buy music online is through iTunes, or the only way to search online is to "Google". That and when a company does something illegal ( like Microsoft and the Netscape fiasco) are the only reasons that the DOJ even cares.
@rederikus First off, you don't seem to know what 'free market' means.
In a free market, a company can do whatever it wants with their products and it is up to the consumer to decide whether or not they want to buy the product. Fining someone in the name of the 'free market' is asinine to say the least.
Secondly, the whole notion of this DOJ crap makes no sense whatsoever. Apple isn't the only manufacturer in the world. If you don't like their products or don't like the way they do things then simply don't buy their products. There's PLENTY of competition.
NOBODY is forcing you to buy an iProduct or forcing you to develop for said iProduct.
@DefPoet
In what way is anything that Apple has or has done considered a monopoly?
There is plenty of competition out there. No one is being forced to buy Apple products and Apple isn't stopping companies from making competing products.
Don't want a Mac? There are plenty of other PC's on the market.
Don't want an iPhone? There are PLENTY of other smartphones on the market.
What's next? The DOJ going after Toyota for having a monopoly on the auto industry???
@Liquidmark
YES if Toyota makes it where their part supplier cant sell parts to other car company then absolutely. The DOJ is snooping around because Apple possibly forced EMI to not engage in a lower price for music with Amazon and such. Please do some research.
If they find no wrong doing then Apple is in the clear, cause you see even if Apple did have a Monopoly it wouldn't matter if they we not anti completive. Thats what this whole thing is about
@Doctor Kwame Nkrumah
They are doing GREAT, or do you want to live in a world with one BIG MONOPOLY, with no more options?
Well, now that the government is cracking down on watching porn at work, it's in their best interest to also make sure it's available on every mobile device possible so they can still wank on the job. ;)
Wow. Did Bill gates buy Apple?
Can you hear that? I think its Steve Jobs teeth grinding.
Eat it, Steve! The more you stick out, the easier the hammer of justice will find you!
Great, just for the no-nipple policy, Apple will not get a once of sympathy from me. They should split the company in pieces.
@tino
Do you really have a problem with Apple not wanting to sell Porn in its own store? You got more then enough Fart apps on Android and iPhone store already, i dont want porn taking up half the selection.
If you really want to watch porn on a phone, use the web browser! plenty on nonFlash porn sites available for you.
Its a business ethics decision and an attempt to keep the app store useful. People bitched and complained when fart apps got denied, then people bitched when the app store started to became cluttered with crap. you cant have it both ways, you have to draw the line in the sand some place and i think restricting porn was a good decision.
I am all for any company that decides to sell whatever in thier OWN store, i.e., app store, convienience store, retail, etc. What I am not for is that company telling me what I can or can't do with a product after I purchase it.
In the case of the iphone/ipad, the only way to buy and install apps is through thier itunes which effectively blocks any 3rd party vendors (and you) from freedom of choice as to how you want your phone. As it stands, you can have the iphone/ipad.....but only the way they want you to have it.
@Gator352 And this is made clear before you buy the phone. And those that don't know that, probably don't really care. You make the choice to buy the phone, knowing its limitations, don't complain about them after the fact. It is like buying a big ass truck, then complaining because it doesn't get 30 mpg.
Meeza thinks Eric Holder and his minions shoulda be worried bout terrorism and crime and not about downloaded music.
@Darth Binks
Well Izza thinks you're stupid, so there.
We all should have seen this coming....
I am a fanboy of Android (that respects Apple) but we all must agree that this is why Android will eventually pass up Apple. Developers have everything they need and more with freedom to develop and sale on the android market.
Apple needs to lighten up before they take a big hit from the Gov then it trickles down to devs then that trickles down to the consumer..what will happen next? I ask because this world is making a big technological push and AppleOS cant keep advancing with limits while other OS advance more for a lesser price and more free features and eventually applications.
for the sake of competition do better Steve Jobs, because here comes the rest of the world with their products that make you even forget about Apple just because of others do A LOT MORE and sale for A LOT LESS (advanced smartphone, tablets, and OS for things we've been using that will incorporate OS's like Cars Displays, TV Tuners, CableBoxes, streaming HD boxes etc....).
Hope there is a turn around
@TheLight
LOL at your statement
"but we all must agree that this is why Android will eventually pass up Apple."
must all agree ? dude, this is what competition is for ... android may pass apple eventually one day ( with their Android everywhere strategy from smartphones/tablets/set top boxes/fridge/microwave oven etc ) but that it's up to the market i.e. you, me, grandpa, grandma, the lunch lady etc to decide ... there are no magic bullet in business ... what works today, may not work tomorrow .. it's all cyclic .. yesterday it was MS that's king, today it is Apple, tmr maybe Android ... that's the beauty of competition ...
The way I see it, without Apple and their restricted iPhone, we may be stuck with Windows Mobile 6.6 in a smartphone ... Android will not be developed at such breakneck speed ... irregardless, MS/Google and Apple need each other to push each other, to innovate, to earn our hard earned money ;) and at the end of the day, we the consumers win ...
@skateni
while android may or may not surpass apple due to market fickleness, it likely will in the exact same model that allowed early IBM PC's to surpass apple. let everybody make them, flood the market, and if 9/10 people don't know any different, they choose at random; if apple only has 1/10 available decides, then their chances aren't so great.
@mrpenguin
you get no arguments from me there ... so it's all a matter of execution ... Android could become the jack of all trades but master of none if Google is not careful ... one thing you have to admire is that Apple is extremely focused in their execution .. also I am a little concern that every Android-based hardware ( except the Nexus One which is mere pittance in the grand scheme of things ) sold, no $$$ goes directly to Google. In theory, their ad revenue should be showing an upward trend ( cause that is their ultimate aim, to drive more ads ? ), so the question is, is this sustainable ? unlike Apple, where there is a direct correlation to per unit sold, revenue will go in Apple's coffers, for Google where there is an indirect correlation, it's just hard to see if they are making money out of Android.
Unless you say they are doing it out of the kindness of their heart ? bottomline is they are a business and they do have shareholders and they are ultimately being measured by the profits they make every quarter
@TheLight The only reason Android is passing up Apple is because of the single carrier option, and the fact that you can grab an android handset for twenty bucks, or take advantage of one of the many BOGO deals out there. If Apple started offering the iPhone on most carriers, with a twenty dollar option, it would be a stampede.
@mrpenguin
true.. so Google is fashioning themselves as another Microsoft ( they don't make the hardware but provide the software ).
One thing I don't quite like how Google is doing things is they churn out updates to Android every other month and never work closely with their hardware partners ( the HTCs, the Motorolas etc ) and have a take it or leave it attitude in which the mobile space is not exactly the same as a PC ( where as a regular user, you can't just plop in a CD and install a new version, you most likely have to buy a brand new phone ). I believe there are already some rumblings being heard ( like a 6 month old phone is unable to get the latest and greatest Android right now ? ) so Google better kick their plan into gear to stop those rumblings becoming a big problem down the road.
Silly question, what are the "developers Ts and Cs"?
@Gadget Lover
Terms and Conditions
i dont care about apples app store policies. i dont care about their policies of keeping flash off their products). what i hope they get nailed on is forcing these music companies to prevent amazon from giving deals on mp3s. screwing people out of competition is not a good thing. wake up and smell the rotten apples.
@sroach23 I think in the end you will see that that isn't quite the case. Wanting similar terms from the record industry is not illegal. I will venture to guess that Apple demanded the ability to offer similar discounts on the iTunes store, and if the record companies refused, they would simply pull their content. Since iTunes is the biggest game in town the record execs wouldn't let that happen, also the reason they wouldn't offer the discounted prices to Apple.
The music industry has been screwing people for decades (both consumers and recording artists). We should be glad that Apple is willing to push them around a bit.
I hope the DoJ also takes a look at Apple's unrefundable app, song, and video purchases.
I'm kind of glad Apple's boycotting Flash, as Flash is very buggy and power hungry and I'm noticing Flash 10.1 to be a lot more usuable. And considering with the amount of influence Apple has on the market Adobe may work on a version of Flash thats comparable to HTML5 as far as stability.
iTunes on a widows pc sucks. I switched over to TuneTools2. Liked it much better.
You are considering the New York Post as a reliable journalistic source? Might as well be Fox News or the National Enquirer.
I really don't care if they force Apple to open up the iPhone/iPad echo system to let developers and consumers do whatever they want with the platform and not be limited to the App store without jail-breaking.
That is as long as this becomes the rule that ALL hardware/software makers have to follow. Gone are the Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo control of game consoles, Cellular makers and service providers control of handsets, Websites control over their own sites like Facebook, Hulu etc..
If one company is not allowed to control what goes into their own device and what it supports or doesn't support as far as codecs and 3rd party plug-ins, or what is sold through their own store, then not one company should be able to do the same.
@dennisheadley
Does that mean I can play and XBOX 360 exclusive on the PS3 or vice versa ? cool man ... means everything will be the same and can run everything ;) that's socialism isn't it ??
@dennisheadley
That's true. A BS case like this could set a precident that stipulates that all platforms have to allow anything and everything into their stores and allow all developers to develop for their platform as they see fit.
Hell, why not extend it to physical stores as well? I can't buy porno or machine guns at target or safeway. Why don't they make it against the law for stores to decide to not sell porn or machine guns? Hell, why not extend it to encompass everything? Make a law that states that all stores must sell everything on the market. That no store can exclude a product for any reason or decide what they will/won't to sell.
Seriously, I should be able to go to JC Penny's and buy vials of hydrochloric acid, John Deer riding mowers or bottles of stacker 3.
I wonder how many people at point of purchase realise that they are buying into an entirely controlled ecosystem run by people who may not share the same values as them.
Amen to that! I am an Apple fan, but Apples claim to being a "Devices and hardware manufacturer" is wearing thin now that so much time, effort and monies have been going into software dev, and consumer services. They have gotten away with much of their obsessive control and kept their systems closed by making this claim, but Apple is going to have to changes its (i)tune now that just about anyone can dev on the iPhone OS, and seeing how we are in an (allegedly) free market system, the reins must be loosened... At least in theory.
If it is any consolation to Apple, they are now big enough to garner the vigilant and oh so validating eye of the US Government.... Welcome to the big leagues Mr. Jobs!
"authorities are now investigating every nook and cranny of Apple's tactics thanks to Steve Jobs' public thrashing of Flash and his sly insistence that the world shun Adobe while hugging HTML5"
That would seem to suggest Apple is being investigated for antitrust based on their support of a fully free and open standard. Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Apple is under no obligation, by any arbiting body in the entire world, to allow flash on their devices. They just aren't. In fact FORCING Apple to allow flash would be breaking the law in and of itself.
As always, if other companies don't want to play ball with Apple, they don't HAVE TO. That's called CHOICE. If Apple doesn't want flash on their devices, they don't HAVE TO allow it. This whole thing is going to go nowhere real fast.
Hey Steve...try html5ing your ass out of that one!
@skateni
certainly, google wants to make money from android, they aren't stupid :-)
It could be through later ad sales, or they may have a completely different plan in mind, one that they think will work and is less obvious to us. Either way, I'm not exactly worried about google, as a company, making money. Even if they are losing money hand-over-fist on android at the moment, by making it free they are increasing market share, and that seems to be their primary goal at the moment. They likely have enough other revenue from other projects to cover any losses they are making, especially as their model means that every android phone in an ad by HTC, Motorola, etc. gives them "free" advertising, and thus lowering their costs.
whatever our thoughts on google and apple as companies, they are employing different strategies to gain share in the same market place. Google wants a "free, open model" to pave the way some sort of potential revenue down the road, where as apple is creating a product, advertising it, etc. etc. with the hopes of making (at least some) money now, and more through iad, apps, itunes, etc.
the thing that bugs me is that this seems to be the exact same as the previous PC vs. apple battle, and we all know how well that turned out. Google still has to make a good product, and keep making it. but I see no reason why they would stop their current model; they clearly have a plan to make money with it somewhere.
@mrpenguin
true there are precedents but not exactly the same ( Apple vs IBM PCs turns out to be Apple vs Microsoft the software with IBM being left on the way side ). The players in that war are no longer in the game ( except Jobsy and I'm sure he has learned some hard lessons in there ) we'll just see how this all pans out and I will say it once again, we as consumers win in the end, with better choices based on your needs and budgets. And I want Apple or Google or even MS to continuously push the envelope and don't let up cause when one starts to dominate and "kill" the others, things will start to stagnate ( like Win Mobile and Palm handheld "war" won by MS and they left WinMo to just coast paying no attention to it until Apple came along with iPhone OS and get kick their arse ). Competition is grand
@skateni
our threads became separated. :'( they were such good friends!
ahem,
Anyway, as for this thread bit, yes, I agree: ultimately, the consumers do benefit.
As for the other re: Google and if they are going to cause problems by churning out updates far faster than their hardware partners can manage-- I think the two engadget articles regarding Android Fragmentation then the follow-up asking if it was fragmentation or just the pace of contemporary innovation summed up both sides of the argument fairly well. Android could fragment into a group of useless disconnected 'brands' like Linux. Similarly, it is just as easy to see that iAd could make everything apple suck like an aardvark at an art-farm themed science fair. WinMo 7 could be totally useless. Hopefully, as you say, they all do well, push the envelope and make good products that push each other toward new innovations. That is a far sight better than creating a series of independent, unconnected echo-systems all trying to copy each others' looks functionality and not progressing the mobile platforms one tiny iota.
We'll see how it goes in the end, but ultimately I feel that it will be an issue of sheer volume eventually leading market share.
I think by this point it wont matter. Since iTunes/ipod/iphone/ipad have saturated the market, not all, but most rather just get their content from one place and seeing how the labels and artists etc know how popular iTunes, app store and ibook store are they would rather have their content on iTunes than anywhere else first because they feel it will get more downloads as opposed to Amazon or any other digital content provider.
Hypothetically if Apple were doing something underhanded the people choose what is on top and if the majority are ok with this I dont think much will change.
Again, hypothetically, even if the DOJ found evidence and forced Apple into a balanced practice the majority would still flock to Apple at the end of the day and still ignore the rest of the competition. Its all about mind share at this point and Apple has gathered a lot and will probably continue to more and more.
i find it curious that no other paper has sources at the DoJ to give them this information. only the New York Post. Nothing from the New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal.
To: Parties concerned at APPLE Inc.
From :DoJ
Hi,
Bend over and grab your ankles.