Google made some waves earlier this week by reportedly
moving employees off of Windows and onto Mac OS X and Linux machines -- although the company wouldn't confirm the switch, the move was said to be precipitated by security issues after
Chinese hackers attacked the search giant back in January. Now, that wasn't the only reason mentioned in the report -- Google apparently also wants employees to use home-grown products like Chrome OS, and it's sort of weird for Google to buy tons of software licenses from a major competitor -- but the implication that Windows isn't secure enough for Google seems to have raised Microsoft's hackles: a new post on the Windows Team Blog says the irony of the move is "hard to overlook" as Gmail and Google Docs have privacy and security issues of their own, offers a point-by-point breakdown of all the ways Windows 7 is more secure than the competition, and goes on to suggest that a recent piece of shady Mac OS X malware is "a future sign of things to come for Apple and security." Meow. Now, we honestly think the real story is as simple as Google not wanting to write Microsoft a really big check, but we're not going to say no to a little fight here -- Eric, Steve, you have anything to say?
posted June 2nd 2010 1:47PM
Eric vs Steve(s)
FIGHT!
@Glitch
Security by obscurity is no security at all.
My 2 cents.
@Glitch
buy their MS licenses? they probably used their search engine for the torrents
@Glitch
No need for Steve, his fanboys will do it for him
@rutter9
Win.
@Glitch
Why not use the Chrome OS or other Linux distro. They pump alot into it.
@matknny
If it is simple as Google just wanting employees to use their own OS why is that they allow Mac installs without approval from the CTO level?
@matknny
Why not Haiku?
@Mike10010100
that is all that is worth too, 2¢
How many computer users do you run into a day? How obscure is it when there is about 1 out of every 10 computer users use Mac?
That is a tired excuse. Maybe one of the many, many Mac haters on the internet would have written a virus to prove their point? Are they just not talented enough?
Keep making excuses as you install update after update, and your McAfee or Norton or whatever runs continuously in the background stealing cycles, with still no guarantee that it is effective to the latest incarnation of the tens of thousands of malware, worms & viruses that your OS is prone to.
@Joao Cagao
1 in 20. At best. Face it, until recently it's not been worthwhile.
Incidentally I have a Mac before you try on any more of tired zealot nonsense.
@Joao Cagao i dont run anti virus and my PC is perfectly safe because i make smart choices as a user, just like im sure you do with your MAC... and its not a "tired excuse" to say no one releases viruses for MACs its just a fact, if OSx had better market penetration you better believe there would be more viruses
@Joao Cagao 1 in 10? LOL ... Apple wishes that had that much market share.
@MarkAnderson
1 in 100 is more like the figure you're looking for.
@MarkAnderson
Well, in a corporate setting, I'd imagine not very many. My 5-person team has 3, incidentally, but most IT policies make it virtually impossible to use anything other than the precise image of the precise version of Windows they want you to use.
Out in public (ie laptops at cafes, bars, airports, etc) it runs closer to 1 in 4 from what I've seen.
@MarkAnderson Regardless of the amount of Mac users, you have to admit it's a little strange that there have been no viruses for the Mac. With all the Apple-Haters, why isn't there one person that's saying, "you know what, there are a million mac users out there bragging about how they can't get viruses and i'm going to prove them wrong!"
I totally agree that Windows is a way bigger target and that has a lot to do with the fact that Windows has significantly more viruses, but it doesn't explain the fact that there has yet to be a single virus for OS X.
With that said, I'm a proud Apple user and would never brag about my machine having no viruses because I'm realistic in knowing it can happen and most likely will eventually. I'm also not a h4x0r and don't know much about security holes etc, so I'm willing to trust the handful of hackers that say Mac OS X is easier to hack than Windows. I just hope none of them actually do it because I like not running anti-virus programs.
@Joao Cagao count the number of Apple servers and compare that to PC servers. You can't be naive and think that consumers run the world of computing...large enterprises do. And they in a large majority award their employees Dell laptops for work as well as use HP servers running Windows Server.
@UnixSystemsEngineer
In public? Like where? Possibly on some campuses but can't think of anywhere else I've seen them reach that saturation.
@hoolahoophugs
Personally I'd say because OS X was a lot more secure by default than Windows right up to Vista. It's equally hard to write a virus in the true sense of the word for Vista and W7. I have no issue in pointing out that Microsoft were 7 years behind Apple here. Point is that for the last three years they've been pretty much of a muchness from that point of view.
That said both platforms are equally susceptible to the real current threat that exist - user installed shitware.
@Mike10010100 20 million new macs a year is not in any way "obscure".
@Joao Cagao
Why do you think 1/10 is more attractive to target than 9/10?
@FitFan
As of April 2010, it was 8.1%, with 2 sequential quarters of double digit growth, selling 1.4 million Mac PCs in the US alone. though it was less PCs total than Dell, HP, or Toshiba, the revenue from those 1.4M PCs exceed that of any of the top 3. this did not include iPads, phones, Apple TVs, etc, just notebooks, iMacs, minis, and pro systems. (source Gartner)
This is just in SHIPMENTS during the previous quarter. As far as OS usage goes, from data in March 2010, OS X has an 11% share, eating 3.8% of Microsoft's share from the previous year. (source Quantcast).
1 in 10 is actually an accurate estimate.
@Tsing Tao: If those Mac's hold nothing of value that would cause someone to want to make a virus and steal information from them, then they might as well not exist at all.
@hulahoophugs
There have been viruses for Macs not on the scale of Windows but there has been. And let's not forget the massive guest account bug in Snow Leopard which caused far more damage than most viruses do.
There's simply no such thing as a completely safe computer except a computer which is unplugged.
@UnixSystemsEngineer
1 in 4 in public? Maybe because most MAC users are "free spirits" and they love to be in the open sipping on their latte trying to look cool while the rest are hard at work on their windows machines
@everyone does
I'd think all the computer experts spewing vicious anti-Mac rage on Engadget would have enough brain cells between them to write up a nice destructive OS X virus. Though most viruses these days are written by crime syndicates looking for bang-for-the-buck, there are still plenty of black hats looking to make a name for themselves by doing the "unthinkable" (which we all know shouldn't really be that hard).
@Joao Cagao hrm - tried Microsoft Security Essentials? Free, built by MS, integrated into the OS, updates on it's own, and hardly touches any of your precious "cycles". As for "no viruses" I've seen a few recently for the Mac, have you not been reading Engadget?
oh, and you know tens of thousands of viruses that will infect my Win 7 pc? go ahead, name one that will bite me provided I dont DL a pron.exe file why dont you?
PS 1/10, bwahahahaha yeah right
@hulahoophugs Not really. Most viruses aren't written out of spite or to prove a point. They are written to steal data from you, it doesn't matter how much mac market share has grown in the past couple years, they still aren't anywhere near even 10 percent of total computer users. If I were to write viruses to infect computers, I would rather invest my time in something that has a better chance of finding victims.
@Glitch The main reasons that Windows gets more viruses is because
1. It is alot more common then apple.
2. Being more common means more people use it.
3. "More people" includes people that dont really know how to safely use a computet.
4. Therefore they download the virus without knowing and make windowd look bad.
On the other side OSX is alot more expensive then the average PC so not everyone is going to buy a computer from Apple and the people that do most likely do know how to surf the web
@UnixSystemsEngineer You mean like oompa or opinionspy?
The reason there are less viruses and malware, is that while they may be distributed for the LULZ, they are not made for them. Macs are near non-existent in the business world, where you have a large number of directly networked machines. For foreign malware distributers, those systems need not only their own OS code written but tailored for the browser as well. And few Mac users pirate software, music, or the whole OS itself. And its not really in hacker culture to attack the underdog.
Its like a virgin that never gets laid being proud of never having contracted an STD. He'd still need a condom if he started having regular group-sex like the popular Windows kids (Apple circle-jerks don't count... jk).
There is a big difference between few exploits and few vulnerabilities. OSX has not only dwarfed Windows in the number of vulnerabilities, but in the sheer quantity of unpatched ones and the poor response time of the company in addressing them.
http://blogs.csoonline.com/files/vista-90day-vuln-compare.PNG
@Glitch: Microsoft thinks it's ironic? Seriously? But seriously, Microsoft is starting with a really cool phone os, one of the best game systems in the market, but to respond to that title:
'Dear Microsoft. Your [desktop] OS Sucks. Shut up and live with it. Even your employees don't like it. Seriously.'
@UnixSystemsEngineer And ultimately, we all know how the computers get infected. No one on engadget needs to be running an antivirus application on their home windows boxes, as even a tiny bit of common sense is sufficient to stay virus/malware free.
In any case though, I support Google in getting away from MS, as its embarrassing to use a competitors products, and MS needs all the competition it can get (they are back up to 92% marketshare IIRC). Chrome OS desperately needs some work and attention.
@blenderman345 You think Windows7 sucks? It may have been overdue, but its pretty much universally been applauded as a great desktop OS that scales efficiently all the way from netbooks to quad-core gaming rigs.
@TheOsiris Oh God...not that argument again..."Windows is for work, and Macs are for play" crap. I use a Macbook daily in IT, and not for creating Web sites, or Graphics. That's an old argument; get with the times.
I can work circles around peers running Windows on their HP laptops...
@MarkAnderson Haven't you read the article where OSX, WIndows and linux went up against each other in a hacking event?
Which one fell first... go on, tell me..
@UnixSystemsEngineer lol your funny but then again look at your user pic its expected your opinion would be biased fact is more than 90% of the market runs windows the end so at best it would be 1 in 9 computers are mac and thats on a good day IN THE US anywhere else near 1 in 1000
@matknny Chrome OS is a little stupid for developers, you have little to no desktop applications (Code editors and other software)... Some form of Linux would probably be the minimum.
Windows 7 is a great operating system considering the amount of virus writers and malware out there and how it prevents that from getting onto your system. It's security can unfortunately be as bad as the user at times, if you click past a UAC notification that a malware installer brought up, it's your fault not the operating system's fault.
I assume Google employees are smart enough to know that, though you never know...
@Excalibur
And your point is?
@Glitch Windows more secure than Mac OS, believable.
Windows more secure than Linux? Doubtful.
@HighestRanked2 Its almost pathetic that you actually believe that man... read the posts above you to have each one of your points summarily dismissed... thanks
@HighestRanked2
"Mac OS X is orders of magnitude far more secure than Windows. "
Incorrect. It's safer, not more secure. Big difference.
@zelannii
Uh... no-one gives a toss how much money Apple makes outside stockholders. Incidentally your share of 8.1% is US only, Apple don't make the top 5 global PC manufacturers. Share on sales is about 4-5% on a fairly consistent basis.
Or 1 in 20 as I pointed out.
@UnixSystemsEngineer
Could you write a windows 7 virus for us?
As you claim its much easier to do than a mac virus it shouldnt take long.
@HighestRanked2 why would my life be slipping away because google decided to make their system more vulnerable?
@Ducman69 Apparently you missed the news about Apple having a higher market value than Microsoft. How does that make it an underdog? Also I don't know what industry you are getting your information from but there are some that are dominated by Macs (movies and advertising for example). Yes most banks do not use Macs but also most banks do not use Windows 7 or ever Vista. The main reason why malware for OS X is virtually nonexistent is not because stupid users are on Windows computers but because countries that malware usually comes from have virtually 0 Apple presence. It is expensive to buy an Apple computer and there is also the problem with learning a new OS. Yes it is Unix but that means almost nothing from a developer point of view. You can't expect a cracker in Russia or China to spend close to $2000 on a computer just so they can target less than 10% of the world's computers. Yes you might get back your investment but you need to have the $2000 spare change in order to start out. And if you know anything about Russia and China you would also know that $2000 is A LOT of money. Plus a vanilla Windows installation with no antivirus software is pretty much a disaster waiting to happen. And I don't care if that is Windows 7 or XP.
@HighestRanked2
Yes, MacOS stepped up with OSX as windows did with vista. I use MacBook pro with Snow leopard @work and windows 7@home. Leopard vs vista was an even match but W7 > SL for GUI. I do love having native unix terminal for work though.
@MarkAnderson
Incorrect. It's (OSX) safer, not more secure. Big difference.
No, Windows is not as secure. Period. Having worked with ActiveX flavor of COM, DCOM, and other internal APIs forever, insecurity is a given.
It was Microsoft's goal to be #1 everywhere first, not secure by a long shot. It was purposely put on the back burner.
UAC is a new and painful addition Windows and everyone knows it. In contrary its proven and works beautifully in *nix systems way before WindowsNT existed.
And that new GUI blanking you see before the continue prompt ala Vista is just an annoying kick back/patch for an insecure GUI API that can easily be 'GUI hijacked' because of poor process isolation between applications. The beauty is the ubiquity and ease to hack... er, 'make addons' to Windows. Hence, the reason your grandmother has 10% screen real-estate to view a web page in Internet Explorer below all those 'helpful' 3rd party toolbar addons.
I'm surprised you're still on here Mark, even after the Engadget shaving of accounts from users posting excess profanity and death threats. As you can see, contrary to your liking.... I'm still ticking ;P
@UnixSystemsEngineer
where's your anti-apple rage if your a unix engineer you should be mad that they stole your operating system. You should create a virus to bring them to their knees.
The Mac malware is reported here:
http://www.crn.com/security/225300210
It's basically a port of a Windows malware that's been around for 2 years.
Dangerous but not really any reason not to use OS X when Windows has hundreds of thousands of them vs one.
The unix system design is inherently more secure or I should say more manageable by the user than the Windows system.
More info here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/jun/02/apple-spyware-intego-discovery
It requires an admin password to install and it warns it's installing it in the examples.
Ballmer's comments are just a smokescreen.
http://www.grimeforum.com/forum/images/smilies/2009/popcorn.gif
@skyblaze
Yes, we looove MJ... and popcorn :D.