Steve Jobs' D8 interview: the video highlights (updated)
By Ross Miller 
posted June 2nd 2010 2:47AM
posted June 2nd 2010 2:47AM
Update: Four new videos have been added!
Update 2: Two new videos have been added!
New! On Foxconn:
New! On the origins of the iPhone:
On Flash and Adobe:
On AT&T:
On the problem with set-top boxes:
On the missing iPhone:
On iAds restrictions:
On Google and Android:
Nice interview, thank you, but no real information gained? Really?
@Almo What were you expecting? Certainly not magic unicorns!
@Almo What is real information? He stated his opinion on things and I think he did it pretty well.
Erm, well, I wasn't expecting WWDC material, but, it just seemed like some sheepish answers and dodged questions. Most of which have already been answered/shown earlier at several times. I guess there was no heavy meaty center we're used to. Just seemed a bit lacking I suppose.
@Almo
OMG STEVE JOBS DID AN INTERVIEW!?!? HOW WOULD I KNOW THIS IF I DIDNT READ THE 40 ENGADGET POSTS BEFORE THIS!?
give me real news rather than making written love to steve jobs. he doesn't read engadget.
@schultz I just want to point out that market cap means Share Prices x Amount of shares literally.
Take a look at Apple's Share prices.
Oh btw MS already passed them again.
It's just laughable when he tries to portray Apple as prescient when they figured out that the floppy was not the future.
There is a big difference between software and hardware when it comes to lifespan.
It's like boosting about your predictive powers because you figured out that the Pentium would make the 486 obsolete. You are such a genius Jobs, bravo!
Software on the other hand only becomes obsolete when you let it, since it can be refined and reshaped to adjust to new realities. For example software like Photoshop or Excel are not obsolete because they have been around for a long time. If they do become obsolete one day it has nothing to do with their age.
Compare the Floppy and the CD. CD has faster read/write access and can store over 500 times more data, and people was mainly using CD's when Apple ditched the floppy. HTML5 is not only slower than Flash, but has a lot less features and is used a lot less than Flash.
The comparison is so moronic that it's amazing how a CEO of a tech company the size of Apple can get away with it as a way of defending a policy which has caused so much criticism.
If I was an Apple shareholder I would be very worried about having someone so utterly ignorant having any kind of power when it comes to decision making.
And Hypercard being bigger back in the days than Flash is today? Seriously, the guy is delusional.
@Psilion
Yep, shareholders must be really worried, Apple is doing terribly isn't it :-/ Apple has gone from being 90 days from bankruptcy to having a market cap higher than MS, you don't achieve that by being an idiot.
Please list your business achievements so we can compare them to Mr Jobs. Perhaps they should sack jobs and give the job to you.
@Almo That's it Engadget, I'm out. I tried, I really did. I stuck through the iPhone news onslaught. I stuck through the iPad flood. I stayed though every little post you could think of related to Apple in some sort of distant way. I have just had enough of you love affair with Apple that you think you hide oh so well. I am well aware Apple posts can be blocked, but even in the regular articles you always manage to get that little remark about Apple in there. I don't know where I'll go, or who I'll turn to, but it's not you anymore.
@wilvo
I never made a company a dominant player in any field, but neither have I managed to turn a company from being number one to having a 5% market share.
Jobs already seriously fluked it once so just as being capable of creating very successful products he has also proven to be able to run those products into the ground as well.
They had a great head start when it comes to mobile devices, but it's certainly not looking like they will be able to capitalize as well as they could on that.
Android is increasing market share a lot faster than Apple now, and IMO it seems very likely that they will become a marginal player when it comes to mobile devices as well. Probably that will be largely thanks to Jobs delusions.
@Everkeen This post would have been blocked by the Apple filter. Why are you here?
@Psilion
Sure, but there were often plenty of alternative technologies to chose from (Zip, MO, etc), and Apple has, on the whole, chosen the correct ones in terms of future uses...
@Psilion "It's just laughable when he tries to portray Apple as prescient when they figured out that the floppy was not the future."
Where did he say that? He said they try new things and see how it goes.
"Compare the Floppy and the CD. CD has faster read/write access and can store over 500 times more data, and people was mainly using CD's when Apple ditched the floppy."
Yeah, right. So why the outcry back then?
"HTML5 is not only slower than Flash, but has a lot less features and is used a lot less than Flash."
There is much more than performance issues here.
"If I was an Apple shareholder I would be very worried about having someone so utterly ignorant having any kind of power when it comes to decision making."
I have yet to see a worried Apple shareholder since Jobs came back.
"And Hypercard being bigger back in the days than Flash is today?"
He didn't say that/ He said that in its day Hypercard was more popular than Flash. Not Flash today.
I could understand you disagreeing with Apple's strategies, but I think they are very valid ones.
@grandmainger
Zip had been around for a while when Apple ditched the floppy, and it was very clear that they had no chance against the CDR at that time. Zip drives was slower, had less capacity and was more expensive per MB.
And you memory is very selective. Just a year before they ditched the floppy Apple included zip drives in Power Macs. Where where their predictive powers when they decided to sell their customers a technology that would very soon prove to be a flop?
Again, when it comes to hardware it's not that hard to predict the future. Floppies and serial ports was slow and could not handle the amounts of data that modern computing required, and replacing them was a no-brainer. The difference with Apple was that they, for better or for worse, did not care about backwards compatibility and legacy.
That has nothing to do with being predictive, but is simply a different business policy.
@Almo Confusion is Steve's game. Coz if he does reveal everything, there'll be no mystery for his iDevice. Hopefully, there's still some light with that Verizon iPhone. http://j.mp/iphone-from-red-v-reality
@Fez
Where's the news article stating that MS has passsed Apple?
@Atkins
"Where did he say that? He said they try new things and see how it goes."
Ditching floppies or Flash has nothing to do with trying new things. With other computers you could use new technologies like the CDR and install a floppy as well. And with other devices you can use HTML5 or Flash.
The difference is that with Apple the customer cannot try new things and see how it goes, they are forced to use new things and see how it goes, even if the supposed replacements are not near ready to replace anything yet.
"Yeah, right. So why the outcry back then?"
Because some software still used floppies for installs. I was a Mac user back then (everyone have their lapse of judgement sometimes) and it was annoying having to buy an expensive external USB floppy just to install some software.
I agree with it being a good idea to make developers abandon the floppy, since installing their software was the only use for the format at the time, but Apple did not announce the move ahead of time to enable them to switch to CD's so the users could install the software on their machines.
So as a customer I was left with a more expensive and clumsy solution, because ditching the floppy was not an option if I wanted to actually use it for the purpose I bought it for.
"There is much more than performance issues here."
Like what?
Accessibility? Features? Development tools?
Don't give me the "open" crap, that just shows that you are misinformed about both Flash and HTML5.
"He didn't say that/ He said that in its day Hypercard was more popular than Flash. Not Flash today."
Like in the 80's and early 90's before Flash existed?
In that case that's a very astute observation from Jobs.
@Psilion We are going in another direction here - if Apple's strategies are good or bad - and I perfectly understand if you disagree with them. My point was that you mentioned things which Jobs just didn't say.
"tries to portray Apple as prescient" I frankly don't see it.
On the point about the floppies I would go half the way and agree that we were switching to CDs, but it was far from over, hence the outcry.
""He didn't say that/ He said that in its day Hypercard was more popular than Flash. Not Flash today."
Like in the 80's and early 90's before Flash existed?
In that case that's a very astute observation from Jobs."
Well, that's the problem, we don't know about which period he is talking about - for me it is when Flash was only emerging, but what do I know - at least let not make him say what he didn't say. And let's not forget that this was just to make a point - they ditched something big (at least for their platform).
""There is much more than performance issues here."
Like what?
Accessibility? Features? Development tools?
Don't give me the "open" crap, that just shows that you are misinformed about both Flash and HTML5."
:) Like control.
@Almo
OMG the same clothes he has been using durin years!!!
Those sneakers must stinks!!!
@Atkins
"We are going in another direction here - if Apple's strategies are good or bad - and I perfectly understand if you disagree with them"
The strategies are not what I took issue with in my original post. I certainly don't agree with them, but what I very much object to is the ignorant arguments Jobs use to defend them.
He's either dumb or dishonest when he tries to compare the life cycle of software to the life cycle of hardware, any one with a basic understanding of technology should see right through that.
"Well, that's the problem, we don't know about which period he is talking about - for me it is when Flash was only emerging, but what do I know"
From when Flash was introduced to the market it took a couple of years before the majority of computers had it installed. If the statement is referring to that Hypercard was more successful at it's prime than Flash was at launch it's not very clever.
If you compare Hypercard at it's prime to Flash at any time, apart from just after it's launch, it's clearly was not anywhere as popular a technology.
And if you compare Hypercard at it's prime compared to Flash at the time any software was more popular than Flash because it did not exist yet.
Anyway you try to interpret his statement it's either wrong or stupid.
And abandoning Hypercard was a gradual process, it already had lost a lot popularity when the development ceased. I doubt Apple would have abandoned it if it would have been installed on more than 98% of users computers and used on 75% of websites.
"Like control."
Control over what?
Anyone can make Flash development tools and players.
WHATWG is in control over HTML5, and is made up representatives from three companies. Adobe cooperates with many companies and developers when developing Flash, and if you as a developer or company would like a feature added it's not easier to get WHATWG to add a feature than it is to get Adobe to do it.
You can even become a member of Open Screen Project and get the source code to Adobes implementation of the player.
As an example look at Google and VP8. They want users to have support for their codec, and Adobe immediately agreed to add the codec to the player, which means that 90% of users will be able to play VP8 video in a bit more than a year.
They also want to have HTML5 support, but Apple will not support it, and MS will not include the codec in IE9. And even if they would it's not likely to get anywhere near 90% adoption even within a decade. Same goes for many other HTML5 features, the control is so fragmented that no one has control.
In what way does HTML5 give more control, apart from browser developers wanting to block some features?
@Psilion I think that's his point though. The way he sees it, it's probably better off investing and feature-completing HTML5 for the future than it is to just aid Adobe's mission of getting Flash everywhere.
I don't think anyone disagrees with you, that HTML5 has a lot of disadvantages to Flash as it stands today.
@Psilion "He's either dumb or dishonest when he tries to compare the life cycle of software to the life cycle of hardware, any one with a basic understanding of technology should see right through that."
I am not sure he meant the comparison in the way you suggest it - I see it more as "We just took a drastic decision and we've been taking drastic decisions before".
"If the statement is referring to that Hypercard was more successful at it's prime than Flash was at launch it's not very clever."
It's not very clever if you want to compare specifically Flash to Hypercard. Again, he is making a point - before there was Hypercard, it was very popular (more popular that the 'other' existing stuff at that time) and they ditched it. Basically, it is not about if Flash was more popular relatively to Hypercard, but that the latter was popular enough so ditching it could be an example of Apple ditching something big.
IMHO you are just taking the comparisons too far - they are there to make a point, based on one similarity - ditching something big. Flash is big now, Hypercard was big then, the action taken by ditching them is to some extent similar - drastic.
Control over everything. It's Jobs' point about the "third layer".
@TheSeanWilson
Problem is that for example he is using performance, battery life and stability as arguments why he wants to replace Flash with HTML5.
That would be comparable to replacing the floppy if HTML5 would be able to bring those advantages, but if you look at the actual technology that is certainly not the case today, and it just will not happen with HTML5 for a number of reasons:
First of all the scripting language used for HTML5 is JS.
It's based on an older revision of the same standard as Actionscript is based on, ECMAScript. That means that JS lacks a lot of features which both helps developers build stable applications and applications that perform well. For example JS lacks strict typing, which not only helps developers catch bugs easier, but helps the JIT compiler achieve optimum performance.
Also, Actionscript is pre-compiled, meaning that the JIT compiler can be more efficient since it's working with byte code rather than directly with the script code.
And both canvas and SVG performs many times worse than the rendering in the Flash Player. That could be improved so it matches or even beats Flash in performance one day, but what are the signs that it will? Flash beats all competing technologies in that area today, and is still being optimized.
Trying to make it into a clear cut issue like the CDR replacing the floppy is dumb or dishonest. HTML5 is not ready to compete with Flash today, and rather than any signs of it being the case in the future it's a lot of signs that it just will not happen at all. HTML5 will be fine for simple applications not needing optimum performance and requiring a limited feature set, but it's certainly not going to improve performance, battery life or stability as Jobs claims.
And feature completion for HTML standards takes time. For example WHATWG is still discussing the standard for multitouch, and Adobe already have an implementation.
Standards always has been slow to develop and get adopted, and Flash has been able to adopt new features and have them accessible to users very quickly.
That is very unlikely to change. Apple did manage to speed up development of HTML by breaking out from W3C and starting WHATWG, but that just goes to show how the fragmented control slows things down. Obviously it would go even faster if only Apple directed WHATWG, but then it's not much of an open standard anymore.
And note how Jobs talks about "picking things in their spring" in regards to choosing HTML5 over Flash, trying to portray it as them choosing between a couple of existing technologies.
That is quite dishonest considering that Apple is the predominant force when it comes to developing HTML5. Not only by setting up WHATWG, but also due to the fact that the canvas is their own proprietary technology.
@Psilion You have to understand that stevo is a marketing guy. A salsesman. And I'll admit he's good.
"He could sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman in white gloves."
It doesn't matter if what he says is true, as long as people believe it and keep giving apple their money. Granted they'll never get any of mine with that b.s.
@Psilion I actually had to Google Hypercard because I had no idea what the hell it was. If it was more popular then than Flash is now, I would think I would have heard of it, even as a PC user.
@Fez No the did NOT.
AAPL = 237B
MSFT = 227B
That's about a 10B gap.
For those keeping score.
GOOG = 153B
That's >$80B gap between Google and Apple. Mostly a reflection that Apple has been able to translate their investments into $$$ while Google hasn't. At the time Android launched Google was worth more than Apple. So if Android was an attempt by Google to pull away from Apple - it has totally backfired on them - at least in terms of company value. They've fallen behind by $80B in around 12 months. That's a pretty steep gap.
@Psilion guess who is the idiot? Look in the mirror and STFU!
@Almo He sounded really honest, that was nice for me to see!
@jaffreywali
How is he an idiot? For not giving steve jobs a free pass on everything like the american press does?
@the guy who said steve was a great marketer because he could sell a ketchup popcicle to a lady in white gloves: what if the lady's just an idiot?
@manifest3r I was hoping for magical multitasking.
@Almo
The only new information or insight I've gained from these videos is that Steve Jobs is like an old man, set in his ways, that isn't interested enough in what others think and by dismissing them is willing to subject himself and his company to fall behind as others move forward and innovate without them.
@Darkroom
Actually the only thing that's more annoying than apple fanboys is the anti-Apple fanboys.
@manifest3r I think he did better discussing Flash here than he did in his open letter. :/
@wilvo
Indeed he is a business man and that is all he is. But with that comes the fact he is an arrogant dick.
@edicius Not when you're 15, lol. It was big around MacOS 7.5ish times.
@wilvo u still forget about how they are making money, apple is a excellent HW designer and distributor, but the software lacks a lot in terms of user base experience. If there was no IPOD apple would be an obsolete company where today nobody would ever remember. what saved Apples ass was a aac codec and IPOD with miniature disks, later iphone, why ? because its simple and beautiful still software is not so great but has one huge advantage, support. If windows mobile had so big apps support noone would ever think about apple again. now with the Ipad, what I feel is that the hardware is basically not capable to run flash fluently, and the iphone OS is just tailored to run on ipad HW, its easier to ditch advanced software then to produce a HW that would be capable of working with that. I bet apple is only losing 20% of the price on production (foxconn is the proof of that), thats the reason why are they doin so good. and no they dont want to invest more in HW, thats why FLASH is banned.
Flash has a great potentiality ,and always had. No wonder MS created silverlight.
@Almo
Anybody having trouble playing these videos. I tried Safari, Chrome, Opera, Firefox, and IE 8 ?
U r a dick
Where is his purple panther Panthor?
@Ducman69
Equating someone having a life-threatening illness with looking like Skeletor? Your maturity truly knows no bounds.
Die in a fire, please.
@ebon "Your maturity truly knows no bounds. Die in a fire, please."
Hahahaaaa. Nice.
@ebon
He said nothing about a life threatening illness, Steve's just evil, that's all.
Ahh the sith lord of apple speaks
*side note* looks a lil healthier .. hope all is well on that front
steve jobs looks like a bird
engadget it sounds like Steve Jobs doesn't think much of u guys as journalists but more like bloggers.
Which is it?
Josh?
@Gabe Well, I can't speak for Josh, but I completely agree with Jobs that the world needs more editors. Engadget looks like and acts with the speed of a blog, but we're not some random dudes -- we're a multimillion-dollar business that's just one small part of a very large media company, and even though we have a lot of fun, we ultimately take what we do very seriously.
Every single Engadget editor from Josh on down has had a post ripped to shreds, re-written, or simply thrown out because it wasn't up to snuff, and once we do actually post something, we have millions of passionate and informed readers like you who check us even harder. Our success ultimately comes down to our credibility with readers, which we work extremely hard to build and maintain -- and the best way to do that is to edit.
@Nilay Patel "we're not some random dudes -- we're a multimillion-dollar business that's just one small part of a very large media company, and even though we have a lot of fun, we ultimately take what we do very seriously."
OK then Mr Patel - so please, then, be professional and use journalistic ethics and give your readers non-partisan coverage that reflects the real technology world not the world inside the apple bubble
@ajwoodhouse The Apple "bubble" is kind of very big right now.
@Nilay Patel
Nilay, I'd like to say that you are the man.
@Atkins Market share wise?
@ajwoodhouse Attention-wise. If people are clicking mostly on Apple articles, there will be more of them - pretty logical. The market has spoken.