Apple iPad and Samsung Wave share a brain
By Tim Stevens 
posted June 8th 2010 6:59AM
posted June 8th 2010 6:59AM
UBM TechInsights Verifies That the Samsung Wave S8500 Features the Same ARM Core as the Apple iPad
OTTAWA, Ontario, June 8 /PRNewswire/ -- UBM TechInsights today announced an important discovery in the application processors of two popular consumer electronics devices. UBM TechInsights analysis has revealed that the just-released Samsung Wave S8500 features the same 1 GHz ARM CORTEX A8 core as that found in the very popular Apple iPad.
(Photo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20100608/SF16849)
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20100608/SF16849)
"By investigating the Samsung S5PC110A01 application processor and comparing it to the A4 application processor found in the Apple iPad using our specialized lab techniques, we were able to confirm that not only is Samsung the manufacturer of both application processors, but both application processors feature the same 1 GHz ARM CORTEX A8 core manufactured using a 45-nanometer low-power fabrication process," said Young Choi, Senior Manager of the Technical Intelligence Group. "With this find, we begin to see how Samsung is successfully asserting itself as the leader in the wireless and mobile applications processor market."
With the recent surge in sales of the iPad, speculation that the next generation Apple iPhone will also feature the same A4 processor as that of the iPad, and the belief that the soon-to-be released Android OS-enabled Samsung Galaxy S Smartphone will also use the S5PC110A01, sales of Samsung manufactured processors is expected to reach very high-levels. With these key sockets in place Samsung will easily maintain its position as the market leader in application processors that it originally attained in 2009.
UBM TechInsights used the best and latest technical expertise and analysis tools, in combination with years of experience in all aspects of the IP / Technology Lifecycle, to make our determination of the similar ARM cores in the Samsung S5PC110A01 and the Apple A4. Information about UBM TechInsights research on the Apple A4 processor can be found at ubmtechinsights.com. For more information about available research on the Samsung S5PC110A01, please mailto:sleclaire@ubmtechinsights.com.
About UBM TechInsights
UBM TechInsights is the preeminent firm for the provision of sophisticated information and advice to technology companies. We assist in the management of their technology and intellectual property portfolios, ensuring the reduction of risk and maximizing return on investment. Our leadership position is founded upon our commitment to the utmost integrity, and sustained by the ongoing investment and acquisition of the knowledge and capabilities necessary to meet our clients' evolving needs. When companies need assistance in managing their most complex technology or IP challenges, they turn to UBM TechInsights for assured results. For more information about UBM TechInsights, go to www.ubmtechinsights.com.
SOURCE UBM TechInsights
yay
@Dr Lisbon
He is a liar, but terrorist is a bit steep...
Well, Steve Jobs is not lying, his apple team worked "HARD" just designing the letters A4 on the chip (arent they cool?).
Oh, forget about Samsung Wave, wait for the Samsung Galaxy S.
iPhone 4G? Does it connect to 4G networks like the Evo?
I thought the name was iphone 4.
No "G" in its name,
@Beatnik
Don't tell Engadget. They think Job's magically put up a 4G network just for this phone.
@Mouniface
Well engadget ..it seems u r in a pact with apple .. maybe Bada OS might not be big, but did u forget about the "ANDRIOD MONSTER" Samsung GALAXY S .. which has the same processor .. bigger superAMOLED screen and might come with as a PRO version with QWERTY -fingers crossed-
@Beatnik Are you a moron? Aren't you ashamed to parade your ignorance in public? Oh. It's an anonymous blog site!
Just because you don't fab it doesn't mean you didn't design it. And just because you designed it does not mean it cannot be used by others. The IP is most likely jointly owned. This is very common practice.
I am shocked at how naive people posting here are.
@Dr Lisbon yeah he's a bit of a homo if u ask me, but apple products are taking over the world, apple = cyberdyne systems, they're coming for us
@Dr Lisbon Are you a Dr of ignorance? First read up on how the processor design and fab industry work before making an ass of yourself!
@JFH
I think he's just being racist
@Dr Lisbon
The A4 is an OEM version of the Samsung Hummingbird...Apple didn't design ANYTHING, Intrinsity and Samsung designed it.
@Lusifer
1Ghz A4 CPU running iOS native code > 1Ghz A4 CPU running Android bytecode in a virtual machine
@Mouniface you haven't lived in a dictatorship, he is nothing but just a CHARISMATIC dictator, i know it because i lived all of my life under one of those regimes, but do you know whats funny about these regimes? they fall apart the second dictator dies.
@Mouniface
Guess that makes the Samsung Wave "Magical" too.
@DoctarPeppar Shocking how ignorance about the industry just flies wild on the web. I bet if people actually knew who you were you wouldn't be strutting your ignorance with so much pride....but who knows!
Samsung is a fabricator. Apple designed the specs along with others. I am sure they A4 is a combination of IP from many specialized companies. But the output is built to Apple's specs and needs.
What people seem to be missing is that Apple designed a processor for their OS. That is probably the reason why with relatively low end hardware the iPad has fantastic performance. I couldn't believe it until I used it. That's the whole point. Apple gets more out of the hardware because the hardware is optimized for their software.
The problem on sites like this is that we have people who are preying on others ignorance or they are ignorant themselves and try to sound intelligent. That's a real pity!
@jaffreywali
What are you talking about dude?
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/newsView.do?news_id=1030
That's their press release, it's from 2009!
Apple did not design ANYTHING!
They BOUGHT the company that helped design it (Intrinsity)...
Jobs painted a picture of it being this super hardcore unique chip that Apple designed specifically for iOS, and it's not. It's the Samsung Hummingbird, and believe it or not, there's even MORE companies using this _exact_same_chip_ in their products. It's not unique and it's not designed by apple at all, sorry.
@Mouniface
you have just forgotten the apple drawn in it. that's the real valuable thing in the processor
@jaffreywali Your the biggest tool on this blog. When I bought my trunk, I ordered it in silver, trd, 4door..... now I tell everyone I designed it, stupid.....
@Beatnik
Samsung has higher dpi res compare to Galaxy both same resoulution but wave is smaller screen, share all the same specs except wave has led flash which make picture better and use bada os instead of android. saving you $150 is worth to think,
@Beatnik
Yeah what's up with "iphone4g" in the tags, and no iPhone 4...
@DoctarPeppar
I believe PA Semi fucked up.
@DoctarPeppar
Sorry, dear chap, but you have a few misconceptions here.
Firstly, the CPU core is not the same as the SoC. The Apple A4 and the Samsung S5PC110A01 are both SoCs (System-on-Chips).
The CPU core in both is designed by ARM (which Apple part own) and was optimised for clock speed on 45nm by Intrinsity (which Apple now own, but didn't at the time).
However, the CPU is not even the major part of the design. According to ARM, the Cortex A8, including L1 cache, is less than 4mm^2 on 65nm. On 45nm, it should be around 2.5mm^2.
According to iFixit and Chipworks, they measured the A4's die size to be 55mm^2. That means that the CPU core is less than 5% of the A4's silicon.
All UBM have actually demonstrated is that they both have a Cortex A8, which is not actually any kind of an insight. You can safely assume that Samsung will have licensed the optimisations from Intrinsity too, but that still leaves 95% of the chip as unaccounted for.
That difference includes the memory controller, pre-fetchers, L2 cache, display controllers, 3D GPU, video encoder, video decoder, 2D vector accelerator, DSP, security engine, bus, I/O blocks, audio processor and god knows what else. This is not insignificant stuff - it is 95% of the design and makes a huge difference to the performance and power.
And it was designed by the former PA semi guys at Apple, not by Samsung. Samsung just fabricate it.
the press release button isn't working :/
@Wiggy Fuzz Fixed it, thanks.
LIAR
@Pork How is he lying? Apple owns Intrinsity the company that worked with Samsung to design the A4.
There were already rumors of this. This isn't "new" news. Search "Intrinsity" on engadget and you will see previous articles.
@soooted
FYI
"designed by our own team" - Steve Jobs
Apple owns intrinsity, intrinsity makes A4, so apple did make the A4. It is apples own team. They bought them. So, what's your point?
Apple owns intrinsity, intrinsity makes A4, so apple did make the A4. It is apples own team. They bought them. So, what's your point?
@Siryj
Intrinsity designed the A4 long before it was bought by Apple. So litterally Apple "bought the team who made the A4". Apple did not design the chip from scratch.
@Siryj
It's like HP and Palm.
HP bought Palm, but they didn't build webOS did they?
@soooted At the time Hummingbird was designed, Intrinsity was not part of Apple and had, in fact, designed Hummingbird as a core that could be used by anyone. They won design of the year in IEEE Spectrum.
@Pork, et al
In yesterdays keynote, Jobs never said Apple designed it. He said, "The iPhone 4 is powered by the A4 chip — Apple's A4 chip. This is a chip that was designed by our own team. They are really good and this is wonderful to have in an iPhone."
A few logical comments. I'm certain this chip is nearly identical in every way to the Samsung fabricated/Intrinsity designed SoC. Also recall that Apple bought PA Semi as well.
I'm willing to wager that the A4 might be the same silicon but it's probably not exactly the same just with new lettering on top. Apple spends a lot of money with Samsung for displays, memory, and chips so the partnership as long been established.
My guess is that after Apple bought Intrinsity and PA Semi, they all went to work optimizing this SoC further specifically for the iOS and better power management. Whatever gains or competitive advantage they made in this area is what Jobs is referring to in addition to the fact that the team Apple bought designed it originally prior to the purchase.
Besides, as everyone knows, it was probably far cheaper to just buy Intrinsity and PA Semi combined than to license their technology developed for broader application. It's why the closed hardware/software ecosystem works for Apple as a counterpoint to PC/Windows.
Was it designed by Apple? No. Was it optimized by teams Apple bought before and after those firms were acquired? Yes to the former, and I'd bet a lot on yes to the latter.
Think smartly, folks.
@Fozzy Bear
Absolutely agreed.
"Designed by our team" is BS, it's all IP blocks licensed from ARM and Imagination Technologies with minor modifications. There's tons of CPUs based on 1GHz Cortex-A8, QSD8250/8650 for example which you see in a lot of phones.
@CommentsTroll
ARM and Imagination are like the weapons manufacturers that sell weapons to both sides
@CommentsTroll
I'm no fanboy, but if Apple buys the team.. it's still their team that developed it.
Intrinsity finished designing the A4 chip before Apple bought them. So the A4 was developed independently of Apple and with no influence of Apple. So the A4 product itself was not designed by Apple, because it was finished before Intrinsity became part of Apple.
Any products that Intrinsity designs *from now on* could be credited technically as "Designed by Apple" but the A4 does not get that "honor."
Samsung had more to do with the A4 than Apple ever did.
apple didn't do manufacturing design on the chips plants, nor did it do design on the chips insides. so what part did apple design? the a4 logo on top. it never was a secret really outside of jobs speech that the chips were sourced from sammy, via a proxy company that "did the design", more honestly they just work as apples arm experts.
@glassfin
forgot that apple bought that company i was referring as proxy company. for what, we don't know, since the chip isn't theirs(likely for the arm expertise).
@glassfin Apple probably "designed" it in the sense that they gave Intrinsity a bunch of requirements and Intrinsity modified the existing Cortex A9 to give them what they wanted.
To be fair to Apple, it means they did a lot more than just go shopping for an existing chip and plopping it into their phone - but I wouldn't say that it went as far as to design it though.
@glassfin
You are of course correct on all counts.
Intrinsinty optimized the Cortex A8 ARM implementation in the Samsung fabbed SoC.
Then Apple bought Intrinsity.
Now Intrinsity is part of Apple's team.
So yes, Jobs is good at stretching the truth, that's for sure :)
@glassfin Remember when NYT posted that BS that Apple spent 1 Billion dollars designing a new chip for iPad, when everyone knew it was just a modified Cortex A8 chip?
They were o pathetic trying to promote the iPad in ANY way, thinking it would end up being their savior.
already know，lolz
I want an A8L chip inside my next phone.
@theanimala
I want a dual-core Cortex A9. The Tegra2 should do nicely...
@theanimala last time i checked A8L was a very large car
@arash Yes, the A8L is large, but imagine the size of the screen on that phone! F retinal display!
@theanimala CAN YOU PLEASE DONT USE THAT "retina display" again? thats nothing but just a marketing name,they wanted higher resolution,they couldnt upscale apps to the standard 800*480 pixel,so the blew it! there's too many unused pixels on that display that will hurt developers. its a dead pixel cemetery!
@arash now look at this,this is what a display is:
http://pic.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/samsung-i9000-galaxy-s/gal/new/gsmarena_008.jpg
http://pic.gsmarena.com/vv/reviewsimg/samsung-i9000-galaxy-s/gal/new/gsmarena_006.jpg
no dead pixel,the standard 800*480 on 4" and fucking super AMOLED