Chinese government to make Foxconn suicide findings public
By Joseph L. Flatley 
posted June 15th 2010 2:42AM
posted June 15th 2010 2:42AM
We've been struggling to wrap our heads 'round this whole Foxconn imbroglio since the beginning, and while we're pretty skeptical about any official reports we'd be remiss if we didn't mention that the Human Resources and Social Security Ministry in China was looking into the thing, and that they'll be releasing the findings somewhat soonish. According to Vice Minister Zhang Xiaojian, recent strikes at various factories including Brother and Honda (strikes seemingly sparked by the Foxconn incidents) do not constitute "a 'wave' of unrest." Well, that's good -- for business owners, at least. And while the families of the Foxconn suicides maintain that long hours, low pay, and harsh management are to be blamed, Zhang added that "the psychological problems of the workers" can be added to the list. Psychological problems caused by low pay, long hours, and harsh management, perhaps?
[Thanks, Xinh]
[Thanks, Xinh]
Could this be part of a game China is going to play since Foxconn is talking about moving 800,000 jobs out of there country?
@uckApple Huh, do you know a lot of people who frown when they're laughing?
That pic is sad... feelsbadman.jpg
@Rusty Shackleford
I think it's 100614-foxconn-01.jpg
@H264 strong unawareness
no comments!!
Foxconn is going to move out China. Good news.
@arnoldphone
"on to India!!!"
@arnoldphone I think you are pretty naive to think that way, at least in this decade there is no other country that can provide the level of infrastructure, government incentive, and work force that's remotely close to what China is providing now. In the end, companies' bottom lines will take a hit even though labor cost is lower in many other developing countries.
So shutting down Foxconn, Brother and Honda maybe an idea?
This is surely just a power move, and the likelihood of any truth coming out of the communist party leaders mouths that kill protesting students and heavily restrict freedom of speech with authoritarian power is next to nil.
Surely anyone that tries to point any such thing out on their blog in China will promptly receive a knock on the door from big brother.
@Ducman69
Oops seems like I just stepped back in time. I guess you haven't been to China recently (or ever..) right?
PS - At least they the freedom to choose their mobile phone carrier.
@Hmm
*At least they have...
@Ducman69
This is the saddest, most ignorant comment I have ever read.
@Hmm Yes I have. My aunt lives in Shanghai.
You realize that you can't even have political blogs in China critical of the communist party, right? Thats as of today, not "in a time long long ago". There are currently over 30,000 internet police in service in China.
If you were in China, you'd enjoy your government internet proxy behind the state owned ISPs, I am sure. *rolleyes*
----
"Amnesty International notes that China “has the largest recorded number of imprisoned journalists and cyber-dissidents in the world.” The offences of which they are accused include communicating with groups abroad, opposing the persecution of the Falun Gong, signing online petitions, and calling for reform and an end to corruption."
i will definitely send them a thank you post card after i get my iphone 4.
psychology damage. took them this long to realize that calling "Wong" a worthless idiot every time he broke something or was late. Im sure they beat them with a stick too.
just go to any chinese dimsum restuarant and complain about something. Watch as the managers scold them hard and change up on you all politely.
@n2neee Thats just a show man. I speak some Manderin, and what they are really saying is:
[translated]"OH MY GAWD, another blowhard whitey!!! Pretend to be afraid while I speak loudly at you!!! Lets put on a really good show for the dumbass, so he feels bad about even complaining!!! Oh, and Grandma said that you never write anymore. OK, I think that was enough, lemee see if that shut him up!" [/translated] Oh sorry please, thousand apologies. Thank you please.
@n2neee
Dimsum restaurant? As in... HONG KONG? Dude, HK won't be part of China until 2047...Most likely the management of your little Golden Dragon haven't been to Mainland China in 30+ yrs.
Mainland China has a loooong way to go in terms of moral fibre until then.
Why are Engadget reporting on this?
Foxconn workers suicide rate is below the Chinese national average, where their nation average is below the international median rate of suicide. It's sad people kill themselves, but so few out of 800,000 workers, the press are reporting on nothing.
@simonhowes
man thats like saying the catholic priests accused of being a pedophile falls within the "national average"
@simonhowes
Seriously! Finally, a voice of truth!
I'm sure working there is just fine. Why report on this string of suicides all within a short amount of time at the same factory where 80 hours of overtime is mandatory. Oh, boo-hoo! I have to work the equivalent of two American work weeks extra this week in addition to my work week. Grow up guys!
So what do you say, simonhowes? Let's you and I go over there and turn in job applications at Foxconn, show all these media pansies that it's not such a big deal. Wait, simonhowes, why are you running away? What? You won't go within 300 yards of the place? Well, gosh, why not? You prefer your 40 hour workweek and at least living wages? Well, shoot, I'd never have guessed!
@simonhowes
You are not being fair. Please stop mislead people like that.
Do you have any idea how much the suicide rate of foxconn is in the corresponding period of the last year, and the year before that? What is the suicide rate of the same age group in China? And what's the rate in other Taiwanese companies? I guess you don't. You just believe everything Apple's been telling you, and be fine with it.
@simonhowes
It's not so much the suicides that's at heart. It's the fact that China's humanitarian reputation isn't that great and this just adds to it.
It's a way to get some leverage into the country.
If this was happening at IBM or Microsoft people may use the suicides as a way to improve standards.
It's all perception. Whether there's 100 employees or 100,000 employees working at Foxconn it's still 10 suicides under one company name in a short time span.
@sonicyoof There is a difference between your 40 OT hours and their 40 OT hours. Reason is this: You are able to support your nutritional needs and rest needs. They cannot.
Have you ever worked 16 hours with little to no food?
Have you ever worked 16-24 hours with little or NO sleep?
Have you worked in a factory where speed counts?
Have you ever been in a situation where you worked 2-3 months with little to no rest and no/little health system?
After you work in those types of conditions, THEN, maybe THEN, you will understand. Yeah, go ahead and put your application for Foxconn. Im sure within 1 month, you will go crazy, just like those people there.
@simonhowes The suicide rate at Foxconn is also lower than the US average.
@shatterkneesinc
nah, that one is well above average
@cornelp
At first I thought maybe you didn't read my whole comment, but now I see you did.
So that confirms that you've completely missed my point. It's OK, it happens.
Gosh how I hate those articles. Can I have a short explanation what Foxconn is and why those people commit suicide?
@Trickymaster
Foxconn is the factory which produces all the iphones, ipods...
The reason why those worker commit suicide is because the boss (and Apple) drive them as slaves.
Think of buying a new phone?
Think of the blood and tears on it!
@double007 Then you can't buy anything from now. Almost everything is made in China, not only Apple products.
So don't point at Apple only, that's too easy.
@double007 Nice try to point fingers at one company.
How about HP?
How about Dell?
How about Compaq?
Im guessing the very computer you type (and me) this comment on has parts made from Foxconn.
So, next time, dont point fingers, but supply proper information. And this is how hate starts, when someone does not think properly and puts ideas into others...
Foxconn receives such media coverage due to the fact that Apple is getting bigger and bigger and people want to bad mouth them. Then again, the work conditions are VERY bad there, and this is just another news...
The Chinese leaders are not dumb
They will find a away to appease the public while making good. With th major corporations.
If they don't then the Chinese public will end up sitting the hand that feeds them. If major corporations leave China those same people will be jobless and have no one else to blame, but at the same time the corporations need to improve working cconditions and pay or face a PR nightmare on a global scale
Are any CHINESE companies outed or is it more "FOREIGNERS ARE THE DEVIL" jibberish? Calling out the TWnese and the Japanese eh? So cheesy.
I want to hear about the working condition on other Chinese factories. Where's the coverage? Is Foxconn the only company that has a dactory in China? I'm guessing the Foxconn execs forgot to pay their monthly protection money to the government.
I'm not generally Mr. Pro globalism, but all of this makes a pretty clear case for it. Businesses moved to China because labor is cheap there, which was because they can treat their employees like crap. After a while, people who have been treated like crap say, "hey, I don't like being treated like crap, and as a part of a larger production system I can demand better!"
The theory is that at some point this unhappiness with being treated badly spreads globally and then everyone makes a solid union wage with great health benefits. Now, you can make a pretty good argument that this shouldn't have cost Foxconn employees their lives (not to mention people who died at other, smaller facilities, or all the people who were put through godawful misery but didn't commit suicide), but it is a little edifying to see an example of the system kind of working.
@thinmac
"at some point this unhappiness with being treated badly spreads globally and then everyone makes a solid union wage with great health benefits"
LOL. What happened was the abuse got exposed because of media coverage, so now the big corporations are bailing and going elsewhere to find cheap labor.
"...but it is a little edifying to see an example of the system kind of working."
Uh, yeah... They're given nominal wage increases, which in turn drive companies elsewhere, now the factory is going to be totally gone. Really, the system works great!
Shit working conditions leads to sudden death from overworking and multiple suicides, workers offing themselves leads to media coverage, media coverage leads to wage increases, wage increases leads to cries of "too expensive now!" from companies making billions in revenue (hey, Apple, how's it going? your stock is looking great, by the way), cries of "too expensive now!" (iPhone 4 for more than $200, are you out of your mind?!) lead to closure and relocation of factory, closure and relocation of factory leads to loss of jobs in the existing area, and we're back to step #1 in the new area... shit working conditions for expendable, cheap labor. It's certainly a system...
@sonicyoof Yeah right...
Uhhh, you forgot HP and Dell and Compaq, etc etc...
Then again, those companies dont count, only Apple. Nice...
@sonicyoof
Exactly. The US has lost manufacturing jobs because our workers insist on good working conditions and a decent lifestyle, which drove up costs. We (the US manufacturing industry) can't compete with cheap labor from other countries, especially when we (the US consumer) insist on absurdly cheap electronics.
Now that China's in the spotlight, their workers are realizing that they have some say in the matter, so they're doing something to improve their working life. Which will inevitably increase costs to their employers. Give it 10 years, and they'll be unionized and have a 40-hour workweek with benefits and vacation time. Give it 50 years, and they'll be outsourcing to Strambonia or New Gorfnia or whatever the new "emerging economy" will be.
Give it a hundred years, and I bet it'll come back full circle -- the US will be so desperate for work that we'll gladly give up our cushy living wages and free time. Once our economy's trashed and all our business fail (except the ones that are "too big to fail" of course), the worker here will be so desperate that they'll take anything that puts food in their mouths. Chinese corporations will see this and move in. Or, more accurately, American companies will make cheap gadgets for the Chinese consumer.
Or maybe by then we'll all have learned our lesson? Nah...
@cornelp
Of course they exist and likely manufacture there.
It's just more bothersome with Apple, since they're supposedly the non-"Big Brother" company, the company with "taste," the company who is the anti-big bad Microsoft, the company for the artists, the creative types, the underdog, etc.
At least the other companies are transparently bad and no one really thinks otherwise. When's the last time you saw an HP sticker on someone's car? Or Dell? Or (shudder) Compaq? It's a given that they shit all over everyone and everything and don't give a shit. Apple is supposed to be of a higher pedigree, though. People think Apple is their super-cool best friend. So that's why I emphasize Apple's involvement in this.
And I like that all you got out of what I said was, "Geeze, this guy hates Apple! That's unfair to poor 'lil Apple!"
"Human Resources"
That term alone says all there is to know about why companies treat people badly.
And damn, this is the future. Shouldn't robots to the work by now while we all relax on hammocks with a cool drink or something like that ?
@Stormstrike I always thought if I were to run a company with any size, I would demand it be called "personnel" like in the good old days.
"Psychological problems caused by low pay, long hours, and harsh management, perhaps?"
Yeah, stick it to 'em Engadget!
By the way, how can I pre-order the new iPhone? Gawd, it just looks sooo gorgeous! What with that new high-resolution retina display and that beautiful modern design, lovingly hand-crafted by workers in China with "psychological problems caused by low pay, long hours, and harsh management."
Crass humour time! Wouldn't it be more fitting if dudes picture was on an iPad???
@iucidium You laugh, you lose.
@Ducman69
You raff, you rose.
I'm sure the results of the finding will be "harmonized" before it gets to the public eyes. 1984 1984 1984
@dicobalt
围观美分党
@meepmeep
Err... I'm literate in Chinese but your comment is either extremely shortened or it makes no sense.
Translation:" Crowd around and watch as America split the party"?
@darkmax That's the "American penny party", the American equivalent of the "50 cents party", or petty propagandists doing astro-turfing for whoever's paying them, a few US pennies per post.
While Chinese local governments are known to hire "internet commentators ('网络评论员')", nobody is really sure about what exactly they do, and people just assume they write all the posts that sound unreasonably supportive of the government, even if the government at fault.
The "penny party", however, are observed with great frequency, and with a far clearer purpose. If you're on QQ (Chinese IM software) often, encounters with FLG and "democratic" propagandists is pretty much inevitable. A lot of the time it's just a chatbot on the other end, but it's annoying nonetheless. Similarly, if you're a Chinese living abroad, you're very likely to receive frequent spam phone calls for "三退", the meaning of which Google Translate should be able to tell you.
Given the extremely low quality of their propaganda efforts, a lot of Chinese people have compared them with online posts that are almost completely devoid of content save for a meaningless declaration of one's unjustified hatred or love toward something, one example being the original post I was responding to.
Make sense?