Valve says Apple, NVIDIA and ATI are working to improve Mac gaming performance
By Donald Melanson 
posted June 17th 2010 8:40PM
posted June 17th 2010 8:40PM
posted June 17th 2010 8:40PM
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@andyusa Apple are very open when it comes to APIs:
OpenGL, for graphic acceleration which is open source, compared to Direct3D and Direct Draw which are closed.
Core Audio, which is OpenAL, again which is open source, Direct Sound is closed sourced.
Standard HID for input, where windows has closed source DirectInput.
OpenPlay and NetworkSprocket, both open source, Direct Play is closed source.
DirectX is a collection of frameworks. Apple put theirs under many frameworks such as Core Video, Core Audio etc.
There are more frameworks I could put here, but I wont.
@simonhowes
I don't care how many frameworks they offer. Having a whole damn list of APIs doesn't help when it comes down to the end with bad performances. Would they implement Direct X to the Mac OS? Hell no! They're just too greedy to let Microsoft have a slice of the pie just like how they disses Adobe's Flash with Steve's trash talk. Now would you still tell me the platform is open? I don't think so! Dictatorship sounds more like it.
@leemahi
should i tell you i'm hella impressed with your new i5 MBP? Your new MBP would definitely beat my 3 year old Core 2 Duo MBP. But my new PC rig, hell no!! Not even with my 3 year old setup. To put it in another way, it's light years ahead and there's really no competition here. Would you compete a race with a disabled person?
Gotta love that ever since steam showed up on macs there have been constant patches pushed out on the pc games I have. Go the hell away macs you ruined perfectly fine games now.
And I hunt for all the losers with the earbud models on in TF2 now. Oh such easy gibs.
and one more thing...
apple makes the best hardware on any laptop. ever. their OS is the fastest booting OS on the planet. PC's are big chunks of plastic. windows 7 is great but it should be a much lighter program.
@leemahi
It's not funny any more. Your jokes are so lame. I wonder when Steven bred these dumb@ss mactizens. I bet you anyone can disprove your statement any time any day. If only I see you online playing Bad Company 2 on your shiny new i7 MBP, I promise I'll pwn you so hard you'll cry for your mama and never want a mac again.
@andyusa
btw, if u said OS X is stable, I would've let you off. But fastest booting OS? You must be on crack or something kiddo. I can build a PC with 4 years old components pwning your shiny i5 MBP all day long on boot times plus everything. You should seriously consider taking Computer Science 101 if you haven't. I'm sure there's a community college around you block. ROFL.
@andyusa
you can build one, but i dont think ill be taking that shit to class or work. Im not saying pc is bad. pc's do gaming thats badass. this is my internet portal, my word processing machine, and holds all my music. it does these things smoother than any laptop ive used and fuck its made of a solid piece of metal. and oh shit it plays games now too?
i have nothing against windows, i love windows 7, except that whole minute you have to wait after you already get to the desktop. and the fact programs get put all over the damn computer that within months of a fresh OS, everything starts chugging. i do have a problem against shitty pc makers that have hinges that go bad, keyboards that stick, fans that are way too loud, motherboards that overheat, power adapters that die, screens that dim out, batteries that last an hour, and its just not as fast. once you go multitouch trackpad at this fidelity, you dont go back my man. you just dont.
I want to hear your argument so i know how to prepare my counter-argument better in real life when i come across mac haters
@leemahi
Nothing against the MBP, it's a great machine and do my job great but saying "apple makes the best hardware on any laptop. ever." is too bold of a statement that I can't hold myself to disprove. OK, now I'm just focusing on the laptops, sure the MBP are better than most junky HPs and VAIOs out there, but not Panasonic's toughbook or Alienware. You sounded as if all other notebooks are rubbish compared to the MBPs. Let me tell you something, a lot of other notebooks use aluminiums too, not just the MBP. The PC world is much larger and greater than you think.
Eventually you will see articles saying how OSX is better at gaming than windows. The guys over at steam already said OSX is "5 times less likely to crash than windows at playing games" So based of that and the fact that ATI, NVidia and Apple are working to making gaming better, Im sure a slew of articles in the coming months will say how OSX has surpassed windows at gaming and how windows wont be able to keep up.
I have nothing against Windows or OSX, I think gaming should be balanced on any platform and for all who want to partake in gaming. Just thinking those are the kind of articles we will be seeing in a few months.
Also its good that they are working on it that way it wont matter in the future what computer you have. You can enjoy any game anywhere at anytime. So kudos to them banding together to make all gamers happy regardless of the platform you choose. I just hope it stays balanced for both Windows and OSX that way no one can say one is better than the other and you wont have to worry about which platform you get because you can get the same games on either unless a company goes exclusive.
@EmGee
Give me some of whatever your smoking cause you are seriously tripping! Seriously though, Apple would have to make some major internal changes before they would ever be considered the gamers choice. Probably most importantly allowing OS X to run on hardware other then there own and then of course getting more developers on board is a must, but Valve jumping aboard is definitely a good sign.
@EmGee
It's not happening dude. No matter what nvidia, ati and apple do, OSX will never deliver a better gaming experience than the PC. That's just plain truth and will never change. Having goals to achieve is good, but one gotta be realistic. The PC will just keep pwning the Mac any time any day. My best advice for ppl who would like to game - just get a 360/ps3 or PC already.
@Veraky
it's so funny how mac fanboys react when something new in their area suddenly becomes available and speculate how great it'll become and start talking *hit about how suck the PC is. The PC had beaten Mac on the gaming dept. for 15+ years and going. Have u ever heard them trash talking about the Mac like this? That's the power of Steve have over his "sheeps" that none other can compare. I had a MBP and Mac Pro (for work only), I could easily agree with you a few years back when my PC's still running XP and Vista. But with 7, I think Snow Leopard should be so ashamed of its shortcomings where 7 could easily single handedly fill in. I'm no PC or Mac fanboy. I just use the right tools for the specific task I do. I want to bring out a point that the Mac (which includes the fanboys and supporters) really degraded over the years. Maybe they swallowed too much pride over the success of the iDevices. These are the very same ppl that made Steve's wallet fat. And that's the reason why Apple fanboys are acting like cults. Heck, they're even more threatening than gangsters.
@EmGee
The guys over at steam already said OSX is "5 times less likely to crash than windows at playing games"
Citation. Anything to substantiate this.
@Tes
Let them talk all the shit they want. They think they're superior or something just because they use a machine with a damn fruit logo. It's understandable since the cult had spread like wild fire. I hate to say this, but I really hate nowadays' mac users. They're all becoming like Steve. Trash talking all day long.
@Tes Its on Joystiq or I think even Engadget has an article about it. Sorry for no citation, too lazy to look for it. Also Im not a mac fan Im simply saying that sites like Tuaw, Gizmodo, even Engadget etc. will probably have articles claiming that the Mac will soon be or is superior to a PC in gaming.
Im not saying I want that, what I want well like I said is a balanced field if anything because if its not some gamer is going to suffer because he or she didnt pick the "right" platform and who knows what the right one will be in a few years you know. Lets say for argument sake that the Mac is a better gaming device 3 years from now, then all the Windows gamers lose out and again vice versa then the Mac gamers would lose out. Sure having one company on top is cool to some people but just imagine how it would be if the current situation were flipped and Windows was the one to just get steam and OSX had it for years already? Windows users would all be like "yay" and OSX users would be like "shut up windows gaming will never be like gaming on OSX" You see.
I myself dont know what will happen but you see how Apple is determined to conquer over every single market they turn their gaze upon. Its good to be determined but I dont know what will happen to those industries. I mean look at the iPhone, now everyone wants one, at least most people do, theyre good at making people want their stuff or changing peoples minds. So if they can do that in the Phone industry that changes every year with technology imagine the pc gaming front or even consoles, which have 10 year life cycles now. Again Im not saying that will happen but I have a feeling its headed their and the blog sites are getting ready to pounce with articles tailored for the situation.
Macs running Steam are generally more powerful than PCs running Steam
bahaha say what now?
Steam for Mac official for about a month and a half and everybody's already giving crazy speculations like this....funny
If your components are soooo higher end and powerful whats this article for?
btw who's screen shot is that? I'll be your friend :-P
Let me bring this game even further, if any apple fanboys out there who can find any mac, modded or not, whatever u like to do, running Mac OS or bootcamping windows, can beat an enthusiast grade PC in gaming benchmarks, I'll literally boil and eat my whole PC and buy you a brand new top of the line mac. How about that Mactizens?
@andyusa
How about this for a comparison; how about these said systems go toe to toe to see which one generates more money for the user of it?
OK, I'll start with mine:
Model Name: Mac Pro
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.26 GHz
Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per core): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per processor): 8 MB
Memory: 8 GB
Displays:
Cinema HD:
Resolution: 2560 x 1600
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported
LED Cinema Display:
Resolution: 1920 x 1200
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported
Connection Type: DisplayPort
External HD: Buffalo 1TB Raid Firewire 800
Average amount of money made with per year; $75,000.00
Subtract price of computer from total puts it at $67,000
Also, keep in mind I will run this set up for at least 3 years, so actually it is less per year than the 8 grand I stated.
Your move, lets see the dollar for dollar breakdown of your supposedly superior rig, and why I should switch?
@Joao Cagao
You're obviously missing the point. I know the setup dude. Been there done that. So your shiny new mac makes money for you, so what, it's not like you put zero efforts in it and print benjamins automatically. I don't give a flying fuck even if you setup can lauch a nuke. When it comes to gaming, it sucks period. Stop acting so gay and get a life besides working.
@Joao Cagao
BTW, I make most of my income with my cell. I close deals with them through customer referrals. My second money making gadget is my 5D Mark II. I've a studio of my own and do product shots part time. My mac is only a medium for me to edit stuff and store originals. The income generated by my Nexus One are able to support my living plus3 trips to Europe and all the fancy gadgets. I don't know how much they add up but certainly they sound more like LIFE than yours.
Maybe if Jobs stopped putting year old technology in his overpriced computers the games would work better.
@Kelly S
how dare you blasphemize the great and almighty steve!! anything with the bitten fruit is holy and "magical" (that's according to most fanboys out there).
@andyusa
Ok, sorry for complaining about your apraisal of the windows platform, but you are really showing yourself as a true windows fanboy. You really need to stop hating on the mac users and macintoshes in general. You complain about the macs bashing the windows system for gaming simply because of the fact that they may be interfering with your indestructible (albeit a blue screen or two) world of pc gaming. Almost every single comment that you have placed in these comments has simply shown your ignorance to any kind of posibility to look at anything in a way that is not on windows (and osx uses many open features, it is not a completely closed empire like iPhone os). Sure you may have used a mac or two, but that doesn't give you the right to bash them and not look at them for their good qualities. They are extremely well built computers and they should be able to have the ability to do some gaming too, it should not be a windows defined space. Rather, the gaming space should be composed of Mac, Linuxm, and Windows in order to provide a diverse ecosystem in order to allow the end user to decide their platform. Window being the only computer gaming platform is the exact thing that you call apple, a dictatorship. Please, try to be more open to this kind of concepts and try not to be a complete doushe in your postings just because you seem to dislike almost all aspects of the mac
@cdyrdg
Don't mind him, he is just jealous of Mac users because he can't have one. Just as I am sure he is jealous of & bashes the other guys who can actually get girls, or people who don't spend all their free time in their parent's basement with their 'killer' gaming PCs.
@Joao Cagao
I'm amazed at the fact that whenever I said any negative construe about Apple, there's always some hardcore fanboys fighting back with ridiculous claims and windows fanboy markings.
Joas Cagao and the other mac fat heads, FYI, I'd a Mac Pro at my office plus a MBP on the road. But I'm no fanboy nor hater. Since my boss is a dedicated mac faithful, or a mac head like you, I'm basically forced to use Macs for my entire 7 years career at the firm. And as a long time mac user, I do give credit and appreciate the machine's ability to meet my demands. But remember, that's solely for work I'm talking here, not relevant to the topic. If you want to go further, well honestly, the machine is overkill and softwares are overpriced. I can do the exact same thing with my 1 year old i7 rig with a slight performance hit, but cost 50% less (plus it runs Crysis). Now if only u're a true apple fanboy, u will argue that the setup is better with the mac on my case. I choose to point out the weakness of the mac does not make me a windows fanboy. If you want me to complain about windows, I can write you a book. It's pretty obvious there's not a perfect system out there and macheads need to act maturely and stop preaching how supreme you are over the other windows user.
Stick to the topic guys, I don't freaking care how much money ur damn mac makes for you. I don't care how great mac runs CS5 or whatever. When it comes down to gaming, it plain sucks, period. Don't need to defend, it's a fact. I'm an apple user and I'm no fanboy. When it comes to gaming, I choose the PC since there's really not much choice out there besides consoles. If you find my statements offending, that's just because you're a fanboy. There's a difference between a user and a fanboy. Obviously, u're the later. You only accept the positive qualities of the product and choose to ignore the negative side of things. I'm don't mean to disrespect, I analyse logically and chose not to be a fanboy. I admire the good qualities of a product just as much as I spot and despise the negative aspect of it.
Have a life and play some Bad Company 2 on a PC instead of whining while my Mac Pro can't run Crysis.
@cdyrdg
You get it all wrong. I don't hate mac user, I only hate fanboys. I dis fanboys for their fabricated and false claims over the others. People wouldn't accept they've break their wallet to buy a product that's defunct in some ways (in this case the mac's gaming ability). Let me repeat this again, there's no perfect system out there. But most apple users are known to bash windows user by implying how superior it is using the mac. People tend to think that by paying more, you're suppose to have something better. In this case, mac is better on some area but definitely not superior. It really depends on the user. I can tell you 99% of my mac friends are more egoistic and tend to have bad attitude than my "normal" PC friends. I can't say it's a fact but the majority shows there's problem with these "worshippers". Why can you call Apple a cult? It's because people like this is everywhere. How often we here there's a Microsoft cult or even Google cult for Christ's sake? That would answer some of your concerns.
I think that new Mac mini would make a fine looking Mac game box.
@DustoMan
Good luck dude, but my advice is to stay away if you main purpose is gaming.
said it before. i'll say it again:
apples ARE NOT more powerful than PCs by numbers. There are probably (ESPECIALLY GAMERS) a 100 times more powerful PCs than MACs. using percentages is a bullsh*t way to make small market shares feel good about themselves.
@unknown311
and I bet there are 100 times more PRODUCTIVE Macs than PC's when it comes to those specs. Find Macs with similar specs as these gaming systems, then figure out how much is produced, or money made with these systems on both sides.
Computers aren't toys for everyone.
@Joao Cagao
Obviously they are not toys for you because you have no life whatsoever. My wild guess is 100% work since you have a large family to support. But why the hell are u here discussing "nonsense" with us? Are u envy that some ppl could game on their 4 years old PC while you're struggling with Crysis on the Mac Pro. I feel you brother. I can build you one decent PC that can run games with my old components.
Apple have two problems in the gaming arena. Firstly their product line and secondly their hardware support.
Apple's product line has polarised. The iMac used to caver the low end, the Mac (through various config options) covered both the middle and high end. But.... someone at Apple got all power crazy with bot these products. The MacPro is a workstation, it's too big, too high spec and too damn expensive even for a lot of pro users, never mind consumers and gamers. The iMac barely covers the low end anymore and has upped size and specs and is now very much a mid market, all in one machine. This leaves Apple with a gapping hole in it's product line. Mid market, mini/midi tower with easy and numerous configuration options. This is a big mistake.
Which then brings us onto hardware support. Apple's hardware support (compatible components and software/driver development) is a joke. There is no obvious reason why the platform doesn't support every single video card that the PC platform does. Again someone at Apple decided that these weren't important. This is a big mistake.
I love Apple product but I wish they would pull their fingers out of their butts and reinvent "the Mac". A configurable desktop Pc for everybody and ensure that it supports both Nvidia's and AtI's entire product offerings, whilst simultaneously taking a serious position on encouraging game development for the platform.
In short, the iMac is a great all in one, the MacPro is a great work station but where is the computer for the rest of us Steve?!
@theadebo
Can you tell me what's the point of putting a Fermi card in a mac when there's not Direct X support on the OS? That'll probably answer most of the questions you have. BTW, Absolute Steve doesn't care what you want. He "Thinks Different" and normal ppl wouldn't easily able to comprehend. It's like asking if China would approve democracy.