DMP's Pica200 GPU is the power behind Nintendo 3DS (video)
By Sean Hollister 
posted June 20th 2010 11:22PM
posted June 20th 2010 11:22PM
posted June 20th 2010 11:22PM
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@Extinction You're comparing a GPU to a CPU. If the CPU in the PSP can do what it can do, you can bet that the CPU in the 3DS will be able to do much more PLUS whatever this GPU can do in combination of that. The PSP didn't even have a dedicated GPU.
@Extinction
Do you know how a parallax barrier works? Do you care? Probably not.
@Indie Seriously, dude.
The PSP uses a dedicated GPU chip to produce lighting, skinning, subdivision, pixel operations, and additional graphic display functions.
This fact is documented. I don't know much about all this, but I still know what your talking is crap on the psp.
@Indie "You're comparing a GPU to a CPU"
No, I'm comparing a GPU to a GPU
http://psp.ign.com/articles/513/513175p1.html#specs
PSP Graphics Core 1
3D Curved Surface + 3D Polygon
Compressed Texture
Hardware Clipping, Morphing, Bone(8)
Hardware Tessellator
Bezier, B-Spline(NURBS)
ex 4x4, 16x16, 64x64 sub-division
PSP Graphics Core 2
'Rendering Engine' + 'Surface Engine'
256bit Bus, 1-166 MHz @ 1.2V (**Changed to 512bit Bus in final version)
VRAM :2MB(eDRAM)
Bus Bandwidth :5.3GB/sec
Pixel Fill Rate :664 M pixels/sec
max 33 M polygon /sec(T&L)
24bit Full Color:RGBA
"Do you know how a parallax barrier works?"
Yes. For starters it means that 15 million poly/sec will be divided by 2.
@Extinction
Extinction, do you read your post before you click submit? Those are graphics cores, not GPUs. More importantly, you just proved yourself wrong, as it states right in your post that it only runs at 166mhtz, not the 333 you keep quoting over and over. Moreover, the PS2 could only accomplish 25 million polygons, and those games look a hell of a lot better than PSP games. If you want, we can post pictures of Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker from the PSP, and compare it to Metal Gear Solid Snake Eater from the PS2. Those polygon numbers aren't accurate and are basically like the contrast ratios on TVs. They're constantly being overestimated.
@Extinction
I don't know a single PSP game that looks better than Resident Evil 4 on the GCN. (a system whose specs state 6-12m polygons/sec)
@tehdewm Please, tell me where you read that the PSP has a dedicated GPU chip...because it doesn't exist. The Graphic Core on the PSP is embedded in the CPU, but there is no dedicated GPU chip on the system.
Looks good, but keep in mind for 3D you need to render a frame for each eye... and have some power left over for the bottom screen.
@stuffman I would assume the bottom screen is left to the ARM processors. It doesn't really need to be impressive. 2D menus and the like.
@Extinction I'm guessing that the GBA 2D units that the DS has used, as well as possibly the primitive 3D unit, will be there, too. In fact, if the 3D unit is there, it may even be possible to use the 3D unit to drive 3D content on the second display.
how come samsung galaxy s boosts 90 millions triangles? and the i phone 3gs 24 millions. and yet the 3ds is more powerful? some one is cheating, any idea?
@xdeiri
No, the galaxy s and egen 3gs ARE more powerful. This scene has been coded by the makers of the chip very specifically to run as well as possible and look as good as it's possible to look on this chip - very few games will even come close to this.
There are not that much polygons used in the video. And low floating point precision (if fp used at all) is quite apparent.
Is the video suppose to be the 3D part? Cause I thought the top screen was 16:9, unless they cropped the video...? Interesting concept.
@n11 This is a tech demo of the chip itself that DMP would use to market it, not of the 3DS.
omg polygons polygons polygons. Who cares? If the games look and play great(you can bet on that thanks to Nintendo) the handheld will sell, like the original DS outselled the uber-polygons-swinging PSP hard.
@ce782138 Sales do not equal quality.
@Extinction Super many polygons doesn't equal quality either in my book. A fun game that i can play on one charge for 12 hours (iphone is empty in 2 hours) does equal quality to me (Nintendo DS).
@Bratyr
according to this article the psp is more powerful, and its a fact that the 3ds graphics is better than the psp.some say its in bar with the gamecube and comparable to the wii.
@xdeiri
Well the PSP is more powerful as far as the numbers are concerned. Certainly the 3DS games could look better subjectively, especially in 3D.
Has anyone actually watched the Nintendo presentation with the 3DS version of Icarus Kid? it looked awfull.. very VERY low polycount..
@SuperDre Other tech demos, like the interactive MGS and Resident Evil ones, looked extremely impressive. A lot of comments were negative for Kid Icarus' graphics, but positive for the depth effect. I wonder if the project started on DS and was moved to 3DS. I hope they take some time to really update the game for the 3DS' hardware.
And WHY doesn't the comments show at all in IE8? does Engadget never test anything on IE8 anymore?
Polygon this and polygon that...what bullshit. I'd never judge a good game on how many polygons I can see on the screen.
Oh shit, I'm tired, I will tell you all how it works:
What we have here is a feature descritpion of the given architecture, not a specific info about the specific GPU on the 3DS. It's kinda like saying "this is a Geforce 9". However, the difference between two Geforces 9 can be quite big.
Let's start by basics, the features on this architecture completely, and absolutely, outclasses those of the PSP.
What we have here is an architecture capable of tessellation, per pixel lighting, programable vertex shaders, sub surface scattering, soft shadowing, self shadowing, among other.
It can handle quite a lot more complex and modern "effects".
In order to do a truth comparative with the PSP, what we need to know are the specifics of the 3DS's GPU, specially two, clock speed and pipelines.
We can safely assume the clocks is at 200 Mhz or more, on 2008 DMP made one at 400 MHz using 65nm if I recall correctly, which means it's quite possible Nintendo is using one at 400 Mhz 45/40nm.
The pipelines remain unknown, but if Nintendo is using 4, the PSP doesn't even stands a chance. Regardless of this, the 3DS is going to be using effects a lot more advanced than those of the PSP.
My personal take is: 350/400 Mhz 45nm with 4 pipelines. Quite a bit better than last-gen consoles (Wii included), it won't do more polygons than those, but it doesn't matter at all at that screen size and resolution, what makes it so much better are the advanced features the GPU supports.
@augustofretes Oh, and BTW, the 2008 revision got 40M/s at 100 Mhz...
@augustofretes 40M triangles/s, damn, we need an edit button...
@augustofretes That all sounds very convincing, but the PSP is fairly outdated at this point. When its successor hits, it'll surely blow the 3DS out of the water (in pure power, that is). I'm willing to bet that the PSP Go was released solely to help them decide whether to make the 'PSP2' a download-only system or not. Otherwise, I'm sure its hardware is finalized and just waiting to be debuted.
I'll be getting a 3DS though
@stubby boardman Well, I don't think you have anything to backup that statement, but I do believe the PSP 2 will be a technical monster, and I was hoping for it, I can't see with my right eye, so no-3D for me.
However, the GPU Nintendo picked for the 3DS seems like the best option cost-power-baterry wise. it's quite powerful, getting games like Wind Waker with less polygons but highly better effects, normal mapping, etc is quite possible (why Wind Waker? Because it's by far the NGC game that aged better, also, it's my favorite Zelda, and I love the artwork XD).
wont the results of the benchmark be halved/third seen as the 3ds has to show two different big screen images (3d effect screen) then the lower screen? im not sure but just curious if such things would impact the performace of the chip.
With the improvement of graphics on the phone and them switching to be a viable gaming platform it would of been really cool for Nintendo to produce a cellphone, I think they could of made a lot of money if they got in contract with a carrier. The Zune HD uses the Tegra and the graphics in some of the games look amazing, I would suspect the the better winmo phones to use the Tegra 2. As time goes on I would really like one device that did everything. If Nintendo had a phone that did it's 3D effect I would definitely choose that over say a tegra 2 phone which had games with just good graphics. Imagine all the titles Nintendo owns right to as well. I would love to be able to play them on the train on the way to work and not have to carry a ton of devices.
@TechHedz 3DS+3G=win :D
Im still buying one. Games look fun. The 3D effect can be turned off it it's not appealing to me. My girlfriend stole my DSi.
Plus it's Nintendo. Been there with them since Famicon.
With the whole "3D" thing, at 800x240 (400x240 split into two screen renders, making 3D effect,) and then the second screen, which has touch sensors, I doubt any final 3DS game will actually look like that...
Just saying. That's a video of it's raw-ish power, nothing special really.
These other consoles, like the PSP, do achieve games that can look better. I mean, has anyone ever played God of War? Metal Gear Solid? They look on par if not better than any of the game trailers for any of the 3DS games announced so far. They also run at higher user-end resolution. (480x272 to 400x240)
The actual games is where we should make our opinions, because in terms of raw power, it means absolutely nothing.
@APV Not only that, that's just a demo of the graphics chip. Who knows what type of CPU it's attached to.
@bhtooefr No, they don't. It's clear from the 3DS's demos that it supports a lot of more advanced features, you're just tech illiterate.
Peace Walker is a fair lot behind "The Naked Sample" demo of the 3DS. God of War looks amazing, but still doesn't hold itself against it.
http://thesnakesoup.org/briefing/images/2009/12/22/pausing.gif
That's how Peace Walker actually looks (and a quite good looking one), not bullshit perfectly anti-aliased screenshot like the ones IGN hosts.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2010/06/pic03juf.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2010/06/pic06gfh.jpg
@augustofretes
Well that fails, considering there is so much more detail in the PSP screenshot than in the 3DS screenshots. His suit has a lot more going on in the PSP one, the environments have much higher textures, etc. Oh, there may be a bed of pretty looking flowers on the 3DS one, (most probably a lame thing in to make that 3D screen do something!) but it's better looking on the PSP.
I have both a DS and a PSP, and I like both, so I'm not really biased. I just don't think the 3DS is more powerful. Lately, developers are actually making some impressive games on the PSP. I can't wait for the next God of War: Ghost of Sparta and this new game that looks so interesting called "The 3rd Birthday." BUT, I still love to go to my DS and play Mario Kart or Metroid Prime: Hunters.
@APV
Maybe you're not only tech illiterate?
All of those screen shots are from the PSP, his point was that the screen shots posted on ign were anti aliased and aren't representative of how the game actually looks on the PSP.
@Soletaken I'm going to guess that you mean't the 3DS, not PSP in that comment? Or did a whole paragraph magically disappear?
Does ANYBODY think that the 3DS will be anti-aliasing? Really? All I see is aliased edges... SAME thing as the PSP. Neither console anti-aliases.
Dear god, you people clearly forgot that this is NINTENDO we are talking about...
The PSP version still looks better... Sharper, highly detailed textures compared to the 3DS's plainer, dull textures, with a bit of glow thrown in to cover up the mess.
I did however take apart my DS today, the 8th time or so... I like the red color better than green... Getting so good at it that it only takes 6 or so minutes to do the complete... ;)
Damn. Those look like above average Xbox 1 quality graphics
Dude swings a sword like a tard
Static background, of course you can put more polygons into the model that moves.
Is their a reason engadget's using old 2006 specs for this chip? The 2008 revision pulls 40 million polygon's at 100 mhz; With a power consumption of 0.5 - 1 mW per MHz at 65nm