Kinect detailed in newly precise tech specs
By Paul Miller 
posted June 30th 2010 10:18AM
posted June 30th 2010 10:18AM
- Field of view is relatively limited, something we could sense when spending time with Kinect at E3. The unit sees 57 degrees of horizontal and 43 degrees of vertical, with a 27 degree physical tilt to keep you in the action.
- Depth of view is similarly strict, ranging from 4 feet to 11.5 feet.
- Skeletal tracking is limited to two active players at a time, as we knew, but the system can at least keep its eye on up to six people at once -- like that totally optional pair of backup dancers in Dance Central.
- Resolution, because we know you were wondering, is detailed as well: 320 x 240, 16-bit at 30 fps (we're guessing this is the depth camera), 640 x 480, 32-bit color at 30 fps (yeah, this is the color one), and 16-bit audio at 16 kHz.
Amazing technology.
@klondikebar
Hmmm, the resolution seems a bit under par for me. I have a Windows Live! webcam from a couple years back that cost less that $100 that shoots 720p at 30 fps. But then again, taking in consideration the system resources available via the xbox 360 hardware... I guess 640x480 at 30fps is acceptable
@Joe Cool In this case, it's about the software behind the hardware.
I think if you double the hardware in the 360 it wouldn't matter, you might (and of course I'm speculating) just be adding cost to the product without adding enough to the gameplay. Sure, there are down the line possibilities, like video chat and putting real people into digitized or real versions in a game, but they are trying to run a business here and they can do it with this, quick, painless and profitably.
@Joe Cool Do you have any idea what's actually involved in the software that processes the data? Any higher resolution, and you'd need to dedicate a **lot** more power to the Kinect's tracking features.
@juanvaldez
Yeah, I see your point. I would rather have great 620x480 input (no jellyfishing etc) than good 720p input. Plus processing smaller video would allow for closer to realtime 1:1 motion tracking.
I haven't used it yet. From the videos, it seems like there is a little bit of lag. During gameplay, do you notice? That's what I want to know
@klondikebar
Cybersex reaches new altitudes.
@Joe Cool
Latency is much more important than resolution in this case.
@Timmmmmm
I agree with you and MioTheGreat, but I'm thinking that the higher resolutions would be used for video chat, high-res image processing (avatars, ingame graphics). You can always scale the image down to 640x480 to do the motion tracking, but for instances where higher resolutions would make a difference w/o negatively affecting gameplay, it would be nice to have the option. When the hardware is limiting the devs don't have the options.
@Joe Cool a higher resolution would seem to be unnecessary. Keeping the specs lower decreases processing time, but also allows smooth movement at 30fps.
@Joe Cool I think the bigger restriction is USB 2.0 rather than the rest of the xbox hardware.
@klondikebar
i can only assume you are joking..
@klondikebar eye toys
sounds pretty lame
@TomSawyer Care to tell us why?
@Rajivsri
because it has an extremely pathetic viewing range?
because it wont have the accuracy and precision to do anything fun?
because its over priced and only allows for 2 players?
i could go on easily
@deadaim you have 6.5 feet from front to back. dont fool yourself, thats lots of space. and unless your obese im pretty sure you and another person could fit in the viewing range. $150 aint that bad. and precision and accuracy? maybe you should talk to your doctor about that.
I am actually slightly interested in playing a few Kinect titles. After seeing a few demos from E3 my interest went from none to a little!
Not too impressive, but the key will be the dev kit software
So it really comes out. PS Move is not more expensive than the kinect. 2 players for 150 either way.
@lrhunt87 that $150 only covers half of the set for PS3 controllers. Your stil missing the other part with the nub. So it is more expensive.
I am excited to use the Kinect. motion controls will be cool navigating my 360 and the voice controls will be a nice touch to use when i want. i see myself playing the dance games with my GF a lot.
@neeko18 Still comes with a free game. As of now Microsoft has not announced that Kinect comes with a game.
@lrhunt87
To be fair I don't believe it's been announced what game will be shipping with it (though I could be wrong, I just don't recall them saying at E3), so it could be some crappy game that was made cheap just to get people to buy it. And we know little of the Kinect launch, so they could easily ship a game with it when it launches.
@neeko18 The problem with generalizing is - you tend to look like a troll.
Here's an idea of cost for Move:
1) PSEye + Move + Game = $100 (this pack will get you started, and be the min for most Move specific games)
2) (Bundle) + Nav controller = $130 (this will be the set-up you may want for games like Socom 4 or Killzone)
3) (Bundle) + 2nd Move = $150 (this seems like the base for two players, or for games that utilize TWO Move controllers - like Lights Out! or Move Sports)
4) (Bundle) + 3 Moves + 2 Navs = $260 (This is sort of the "ultimate" set-up, with enough Move controllers for two people holding two each, or two people needing a Move and Nav each, or four people with one Move each)
The key here is preference - and with preference comes OPTIONS. I will most likely only be playing games like GT5, or Killzone, or Socom, which seem to only require the 2nd or 3rd option (max cost of $180) - BUT if I already HAVE the PSEye (which I do not, but many do) then you save $50, meaning you could throw in an extra move controller, or a game (like Killzone, or GT5).
Kinect is $150 flat - no word on games yet (or game support). Until there is word on serious games being supported, you'll be spending $150 to only tickle a tiger, dance, jump up and down, run in place, or take significantly more time selecting menu items.
The PSEye is also a webcam, so Video Chat is (and has been) there. Support for Skype could >> WLM (PSP already has Skype). PSEye also has a microphone, meaning Voice commands are entirely possible...
What's best? If you have $50 right now, go grab a PSEye. Then, in a few months, get the rest of the stuff. You can spread the cost out over time, and get stuff as you need them. Better than that, you won't feel like you're buying it simply for waggle/party games. You can use it for core PS3 Exclusive titles, and big name franchises...
@PolarBearTC
You call someone else trollish then make a 1-sided argument that screams Sony Marketing (redefined by 18 year olds)?
@PolarBearTC Serously your logic seems kinda slanted to the side of a PS3 hard core gamer only. I dont know anybody who has a PSEye and almost all my PS3 friends are hardcore gamers.
you wrote all that for either a diff of $50 or $20 depending on the bundle you have with PS3. if you really cant afford $20 or $50 over the lifetime of the device then you shouldnt be buying games.
And the fact that MS has NOT mentioned whats included yet means your comparisons are pointless.
And currently Sony has not mentioned anything about voice navigation so your making an argument for features that may never happen. All i mentioned were known features that i myself will use.
Thanks for coming out..tip your waitress.
@PolarBearTC
true.. and although a full setup for move is more expensive.. id rather pay more and beable to play with a full 4 players then have a shoddy xbox camera that can barely fit 2 players in its range and only has the skeletal tracking ability for 2 players. as far as im concerned the kinect is capped @ 2 players. utter fail
@neeko18 It may sound slanted, because when you compare specs and features, it leans towards Sony anyways.
I’m not a troll, but you COULD, MAYBE, call me a fan boy (because anything said in a positive way about any company/tech is the only qualification).
The PSEye is better than Kinect as a camera. How can you dispute that?
The PSEye costs less than Kinect. Still not lying.
When it comes to price, not everyone has four people playing, or even two people. I have two people playing (me and my wife). We are NOT going to play sports, or EyePet (gag). When we’re not playing together, I’ll be playing KZ3, S4, GT5, and most likely more.
When it comes to major franchises, if Move can offer me a new (and better) experience for ~$150, then I’m in. If Kinect can do the same, then great! I’ll get one. But, what has MS mentioned? They’re coming out around the same time, and they haven’t featured anything but party games and kinectimals. So where would I rather spend my $150?
So for $450, I get a solid platform, free online play, Netflix, Blu-ray, and motion gaming (including hard-core games) on the PS3. For Xbox, I get a solid platform, limited to no online play, and motion gaming (which at THIS point, I saw no hardcore games).
Move seems to have MORE support at this point. And even though they’re coming out around the same time, Sony seems to have more on the table. They have a clear roadmap and are being fairly open with what they want to see people do with it (from waggle/party/etc to platformers and FPS).
I'm not understanding the skeletal tracking bit. You mention 6 people. Does that mean that 6 people can play 1 Kinect game together? But that only 2 could move in front of the system at a time?
Anyways this is interesting all but I think at this point most of want to know THE FREAKING PRICE Microsoft...
@TheZaccharaSyndicate ... um... $150?
http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Kinect-Sensor-for-Xbox-360/product/C737B081
you'd think for the price they'd use higher resolution cameras for more accuracy
@travis8214
It's not the camera price. Higher resolution means more processing which means faster processors which are a lot more expensive. That is if the processing is done in kinect, if it's done by the Xbox itself, then they probably can't go any further than that with current Xbox hardware.
@travis8214
It would just mean that it's more accurate but also that it would use up WAY more computation power. And as we all know, the process takes up about 15% or something like this as it is. Increasing this would hurt everybody. Compare it to the Wiimote, it's only 128x96.
Nothing on the specs about those prerendered Kinect videos from E3?
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/comment/9/2010/06/6db9eddafa5ee84849d020538f1008d5/340x.gif
It's a system so good, it makes your movements for you.
@TheSpoonyBard
That's a cutscene you boob
@archkron
Ok, then if that's a cutscene, then why even tell the stage actor to pretend to follow that guy's movement? If he hadn't done it, people would be like "oh, we understand, it's just a cutscene" but he did anyway.
Then there's this: http://i50.tinypic.com/i1d1y1.gif
The issue isn't with the guy turning the wrong way (he's facing the audience, so he'll have to) it's about the game turning before (and far more smoothly) than the stage actor. Watch is a couple times through, and you'll see that the game turns slightly before the actor does.
Microsoft has discovered negative lag.
I was expecting some pretty decent specs, but these supposed specs aren't that great. I mean the PSEye has a 75 degree field of view at 60 fps with a resolution of 640x480 uncompressed, and can go up to 120 fps at a 320x240 res. Hell, even the PSEye has a better microphone with a 4 microphone array for multi-directional voice location tracking, echo cancellation, and background noise suppression. Maybe the lower framerate of Kinect is part of the reason why there is still the lag in tracking and games? Either way, Microsoft's tech's only slight advantage to the Eye is the 3D camera tech. But everything else, the PSEye does better.
@razgriz94
"But everything else, the PSEye does better."
So you haven't used either of these devices, nor are there really any true games that really take advantage of the technology yet, but apparently you can make the judgment call that the PSEye is better.
Riiight.
Sony fanboy says what?
@Hazdaz I'm speaking stickly spec wise, the PS Eye's core specs are better that Kinect. I was not referring to performance or the quality of games for each device.
In the motion gaming "war", I do believe that PS Move with the Eye are the better technology for gaming. I do however respect Kinect for what it brings in controlling interfaces. Kinect will work great for simple things like playing movies, music, navigating, etc. But for gaming, Kinect (as of now) is not accurate enough, nor responsive enough.
Oh, and BTW, I own the Eye, and yes I have used it in several games. Does it work? Yes it does, and it can work extremely well? Do I like to play those games a lot? No, because gaming does need buttons, despite what Microsoft may try to make you believe.
@Hazdaz
fyi.. ps eye has been out for years... calm down xbox fanboy
@razgriz94
I can see how you can do a superficial comparison between PSEye and Kinect, it might seem similar at the surface because there's a camera in both of them. But the technology couldn't be more different. Kinect doesn't rely on ANY VISIBLE LIGHT for motion tracking. It's projecting coded light patterns in infared all over the scene and reading back how they get displaced by objects. This gives it 3D data, not pixels, not a 2D image, points in space.
PSEye is an off-the-shelf webcam you could get anywhere, and some basic computer vision software. It's like comparing a jet to a horse and buggy.
@Raffi256 I understand how Kinect works. That does not, however, change the facts. Kinect's 3D cameras are simply too resource intensive, and as such, there is the noticeable lag and glitching. Not to mention the 3D cams are at a lower resolution than the RGB camera meaning they can't capture as much data, making them less accurate.
And as generic as the PS Eye may be as you say, that doesn't change the fact that it works. Also it's not all software. The Eye has built-in hardware which specifically tracks the motion detected by the camera.
Kinect is still, in my opinion, PS Eye version 1.5 until the 3D camera technology can advance further.
@razgriz94
PSEye doesn't know what its looking at, it just looks for motion in the scene.
There is no 3D camera here, that makes it sound like its stereoscopic like the 3DS. There's one camera for motion control, matched with one projector. The projector is constantly shifting through different light patterns to improve accuracy. The resolution of the infrared sensor doesn't need to be high because its not getting an image. Most of the pixels captured would be totally irrelevant. All it needs to be able to see is the result of the coded pattern the projector shoots out, it doesn't care what's on your t-shirt, etc.
Now maybe if you wanted to track bones in the face or something, you could do more with a higher resolution system. But it would be too expensive for a gaming device. But for the movements of limbs, torso, and head, its probably fine.
@Above These old videos say otherwise: Head Tracknig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFN8cW1mSVY&feature=related
Body tracking here(Note: the body tracking is separate from using the actual move controllers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LrfhXs9yyA
Upcoming Kung Fu PS eye game without using a Move controller:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJR_QzWGhGo
@Raffi256 Kinect also doesn't know what it's looking at. All the processing is handled by the 360, and that's why it requires so much overhead, taking away resources from the games.
The Eye on the other hand does the motion processing on-board, which is why it requires so much less resources from the PS3. And the higher resolution camera provides much more accurate tracking information.
And for gaming, extreme accuracy is very much neccessary. You can't enable the same kind of hardcore games that we all love by just moving your arms and legs. That is why Kinect fails. It will succeed for navigating menus (which I do see as the future), but fail as a gaming system.
@razgriz94 Have you seen the lag in PSMove? Trust me, you don't want to.
Damn. I think my couch is 12 feet away.
@dibs oddjob
Well get off the couch son! That's the point right?
@primetime4
I don't want to get off my couch just to navigate the menus and watch Netflix. That's not the point.
@dibs oddjob voice controls? Skip to 2:00 min http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3JnuoDTJ9A
@dibs oddjob Kinect might not work while you're seated anyway... As of E3, it couldn't track you if you sat down. Microsoft is still "calibrating for that style of play".