Ask Engadget: best consumer / prosumer camcorder out now?
By Darren Murph 
posted July 1st 2010 11:06PM
posted July 1st 2010 11:06PM
Just how we like it, short and sweet. We know a few of you have managed to pick up a camcorder in preparation for summer vacation, so don't be shy with the recommendations in comments below, cool? Cool."I've got $500 - $800 to spend for my company. We need a new consumer / prosumer camcorder. Wide open as far as what to expect, any ones that have really wowed you lately?"
@antparrott Having read a lot of articles on the matter. . .
It depends on what you need in your work. If you need to be able to hand-hold the camera while talking to your subject and you don't have any other crew, the camcorder's going to be much better. If you can use a tripod, and you want tight control over your depth of field, focal length, aperture, etc., etc., there's no camcorder under $1k (or even near $1k) that's going to work as well as a DSLR.
To put it another way, if you're willing to limit what and how you're filming to play to your camera's strengths, you can do much better with a DSLR. If you're more interested in focusing on what you're filming rather than struggling with the quirks and limits of DSLR filmmaking, you'll have better results with a camcorder.
Either way you're going to end up with an image that will be distinguishable from a real camera at DVD quality, and maybe even at VHS quality.
@antparrott I opted for the s20 after doing the research. It's been great and I highly recommend it.
@antparrott
Well, the viewfinder issue is merely a matter of preference. Some people like looking through a viewfinder and some like looking at the LCD, while otheers (such as myself) prefer to hook up to an external monitor.
The rolling shutter issue is a problem with dedicated videocameras as well. What defines the problem is not the camera but more an issue as to whether thee sensor usees rolling shutter or global shutter, and most cameras use rolling shutter as of this time. Now, the rate at which the rolling shutter progresses affects how much wobble you see,
I think a lot of videographers are afraid of the new tools, and want to justify their $5000 purchase. But being biased because of the tools we alreaady have does us a greeat disservice. I say roll with the times, adopt the new tools that can benefit us and grow with our trade, or we risk losing work to the younger videographers out there who have already adopted the new tools. The advantage is still ours. Experience + new/better tools = better product.
@jb523
Great response. My 2 cents... I am a professional videographer by day and hobbyist videographer by night. Buying into the hype of DSLR video, I sold my Canon DSLR (Rebel XTi) and VIXIA HF100 to upgrade to the Canon 550D (Rebel T2i) for my hobbyist duties. Video image quality and depth of field are fantastic using a tripod or shooting free with minimal movement. But the constant refocusing is not practical for chasing my toddler around with it, which as it turns out, will likely be the extent of my hobbyist artistic endeavors for a few years to come... So if you really need one unit that "does it all" with minimal tweaking and low learning curve, I would go with the VIXIA line. You can get the highly rated HFS100 for under $800 now.
Consumer? I don't know, but it wouldn't be a DSLR.
Prosumer? They all suck. DSLR will give you the lens, focus, aperture flexibility, but it will suck in just about every other possible way. Camcorders in that price range will be much more convenient for point and shoot, have a slightly fewer image quality issues, and it might even be easy to get videos off of some of them, but you're going to end up with a stupid zoom paddle and ridiculous focus and aperture controls.
I just bought a Canon Vixia HF M300 which shoots very good quality video at 1080i - it was rated as one of the best consumer camcorders by CNET and its great value for you're looking for. I would suggest the Vixia HF M30 or M31 for you cause so you'd already have internal flash memory. The thing is real compact and there's no messing about with tapes or delicate hard drives.
@LightNfluffy I have this same model myself. Light, easy to use, and great quality image. The Orig Poster never said -what- they plan to use the cam for, but I'm loving the image quality, size, and my 16Gb SDHC card on it.
Definitely read reviews, and preview clips from reviewers, users etc. Just beware of crap on YouTube due to the compression they use... it's not the same image you get off the camcorder.
Can't believe no one has mentioned the Panasonic GH1
Unlimited clip length
1080p
External mike option
Excellent auto focus
Full time live view
Did I mention fantastic auto focus in all modes?
Now this is about camcorders. For the most part only a dedicated camcorder or the gh1 or similar micro 4/3rds system will actually perform like a real camcorder in terms of focus ease of use etc. But nothing beats dedicated pro level camcorders. Just because an slr takes half assed video and your willing to sacrifice everything else does not make it an option worth mentioning. So for everyone hawking a highly compromised camcorder model (AKA: SLR) let's keep this on track and talk about real camcorders........or I am gonna start talking about how amazing the still performance is on camcorders if you don't mind giving up resolution, image quality and features but it still works......anyhow this is how many of you sound...... Hehehe
@rollingwave
What exactly is half assed about the video from a Canon T2i? What compromises are you making?
I would recommend the Canon VIXIA line. Shop @ B&H Photo Video. I'm sure you're bound to find a deal with one of the kits they offer. Besides the camera you will also need a tripod and I'm suspecting a good microphone. Begin your shopping there.
As far the DSLRs, yeah the image is great. But there are still too many work-arounds for things like audio.
iPhone 4.
No jist kidding, get a Canon EOS 5D Mark II. Absolutely cinematic footage.
I say take a look at Sony camcorders ... they're the best in my opinion.
As a videographer I have to chime in on this one. I own both dedicated videocameras and DSLRs, and I have to say that the image quality on a DSLR does indeed trump the quality on a dedicated videocamera. The only real difference downside of a DSLR is that the controls are more menu based than button/dial, and the form factor is nor as comfortable.
But with interchangeable lenses for accessing varying depths of field and the light absorbtion properties of a larger senser (GREAT low light video) DSLRs are poised to take the market, that is unless dedicated videocameras up their game and match sensors and lens capabilities.
And while there have been overheating issues on some DSLRs, that is limited to the cameras that require a software/firmware hacck in order to use video or full HD video. I have had absolutely no heat issues with the T2i.
@charliehorse I would like to add that the onboard microphon of most DSLRs are not very good, so you would need to capture sound with an external mic and possibly an external sound unit. But then, you should be doing that anyways forr the best quality audio.
Another thing to note, no matter what type of camera you get, make sure it has as many manual functions as possible. Nothing ruins a shot like seing the auto-white balance kick in or having your camera refocus on something other than your subject.
@charliehorse
I would have to agree. DSLRs are going to give you the best versatility in areas of focal lengths, DOF, and low light shooting. For the people complaining about the compromises and sacrifices of not using a pro camera obviously are too stubborn to get some rigging and focus rings to make it a great camera setup. I do agree that DSLRs are not a run and gun solution, but defiantly a cost effective option when you are able to take a bit of time to set up a shoot.
In the end, it's all a matter of opinion. I come from a company that wants to do video. Even then it depends on how quick the boss wants a video. Sounds like if you have a $500-$800 budget, you are not going to get the time to set up lights, sound dampening panels, mic, etc and have all day in post production. I have to fight my boss to not have me use is lame-o $80 Flip camera. I use a t1i and a 28-70mm 2.8 with a Zoom H4n and shotgun mic combo all mounted on a tri-pod ready to go. It works beautifully and I only spent about $1000. Can't do that with a prosumer video camera.
I'd say for this budget - get yourself a Canon Vixia HF200 - and a few accessories.
This camera shoots beautiful video with great colours and has an external mic in. It's tiny and easy to control. It's last years model, so maybe significantly reduced. For example, I got one in Dixons Tax Free @ the airport for £360 stg.
To go with it, you'll need a tripod ($50 for a reasonably decent, light one - try to get one with spirit levels on the head), a memory card or two (I like Kingston Class 4 SDHC cards, either 16gb or 32gb will let you record for ages) a spare battery (if you want to exceed the 90 minutes the internal will work for), a camera case and possibly an external microphone.
To edit hi-def footage, I reccomend Sony Vegas Movie studio for PC, and you'll need a fast-ish PC. i5 or i7 will manage much better than an old pentium which may be too slow.
I love the quality mine produces in normal conditions, and it's ultra convenient and easy to use.
What no-one is telling you if you are thinking of getting a DSLR, is to get decent overall footage, you need to be much more careful and to get decent audio, you need an additional recording device.
If everyone will be tripod mounted, and you have time to set things up, etc, and you can sync the sound at a later point, a DSLR will produce much higher quality video. The cost of achieving this video is a lot of hassle, and limitations in how you set it up. To get the best results for a DSLR you probably need to budget a few hundred dollars on a lens or set of lenses. For example, you can't really use a DSLR handheld (too shaky) and there are issues with sound quality - the on board mic is poor and the onboard audio recorder may mess up the levels, so to kit out a Canon 550d or T2i, you probably need to budget for $1500 - $2000 in total, and even then, the workflow for editing is more tricky than just a HF200.
@TurboT
how is dropping in a MOV into Vegas tricky? At least it's a decent codec rather than AVCHD or some other proprietary codec.
@t3yf5g
The workflow for editing with a T2i / 550d is tricky if you want good quality sound and/or if you want to record video clips that are longer than 12 minutes.
The T2i / 550d has only an mono-microphone on board... and even if you connect and external mic, you are still affected by AGC (Automatic Gain Control, where the camera will automatically adjust the gain (think volume) of the sound).
The 12 minute limit for recording video also introduces issues about what you can record...
To get good quality sound with a 550d / T2i, you need to use an external audio recording device such as a Zoom H4n, and record the audio and video separately. Then you need to sync the sound in post production, which is trickier than just using the output of a camcorder such as the HF200, where the audio and video is pre-synced.
Ignore the DSLR comments. Anyone who recommends a DSLR as a camcorder is ignoring the most important part of video recording: AUDIO!!!!
At this price range, I'd go for the Canon Vixia camcorders because virtually all of them include microphone and headphone jacks. These are vital to anyone trying to approximate a professional video recording.
The Canon VIXIA HF R10 is going for about $400.
Then get a tripod, bag, some extra SD chips for about $150-$200
Lastly - get a wireless mic setup, either lavalier or handheld. A budget one goes for $100 but even this basic level mic will give you much better audio for presentations and events then the crappy built in mic on camcorders and DSLR's.
Total budget $700 - $800.
@bmorisette
So you mention that DSLR video users forget about audio, yet tell the guy to buy an external mic after you mention the Vixia... So what is the problem with using an external mic on a DSLR with a kit lens?
Anyone who is going to do video and cares about it is going to use an external mic, so there is no point in singling out DSLRs. In the end, versatility wins and last time I checked, extra prosumer video camera lenses cost well over $2k compared to a $400 2.8 zoom lens for a DSLR.