Samsung's 'tank-like,' AMOLED-screened TL500 compact camera reviewed
By Tim Stevens 
posted July 1st 2010 9:42AM
posted July 1st 2010 9:42AM
posted July 1st 2010 9:42AM
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$449 is getting dangerously close to D-SLR price range, I dont see this as a viable solution.
@Pojomofo
Well, people don't want to carry lenses around you know. I'd pay the price for a great snapper with big sensor and great low light capabilities.
@huzzlehoff - the more choice the better, IMHO. Personally, I don't like either (;
@Pojomofo: Just because something is close to DSLR territory in price does not mean that it isn't a 'viable solution'. After all, if I was looking for a high-end, pocket camera with full manual controls (which this is), then a DSLR would obviously not be suitable.
Your reasoning is as silly as people who used to think $400 10" netbooks were rubbish because they could get a far more powerful 15" laptop for the same price. If portability is an issue, then it renders any meaningful comparison largely mute.
@meeku
With crappy zoom range and no 720P video recording, with only 10MP to boot, I really dont see too many advantages over a $150 point and shoot
@Pojomofo 24-70 is the standard zoom range for professional DSLR zooms. For the ones that don't used fixed primes, I mean. They seem to manage.
The larger than average compact sensor and the 1.8 aperture, with full manual controls and a screen you can put however you want are all features that puts it way above your $150 point and shoot.
But your comment about more megapixels means you're not that much of a camera geek. This camera is generally hailed for only having 10 megapixels, because having more on a sensor that small is a bloody waste. But a lot of consumers think that more megapixels = better, unfortunately.
@huzzlehoff
$450 is close to the mirror less dSLR sensor cameras, like the MicroFourThirds(mFT), and Sony NEX3/5.
The sensor in this camera isn't large, its only 1/1.7-inch. Which is 43mm^2, an APS-C sized NEX3/5 is 370mm^2, which is almost 9 times the light capturing surface area. Moreover, these mirror-less cameras aren't that much bigger and are just as compact as this camera.
Also, this F1.8 lens isn't as impressive as it sounds, its a 24 - 72mm equivalent to a full frame. A 1/1.7" sensor has a 4.55x crop factor, which means the lens is really a 5-16mm lens. We are talking about an aperture that is literally only a few mms in diameter wide open- you aren't getting much light even with F1.8 on a 1/1.7" sensor.
In short, the gap in performance and image quality with this camera and a camera with a dSLR-sized camera is huge. If mFT, Sony E-mounts and Samsung's own NX-series weren't around there might be a niche. But $450 is hard to justify.
@Pojomofo
More megapixels does not mean better pictures. 10MP is the current sweet spot for compacts, IMO. I've been pretty disappointed at the current crop of 14MP models and last year's 12MP models were just acceptable. And not everyone uses the video recording function or 480p is perfectly usable.
Here are a few features that this Samsung has over a $150 point and shoot:
Fast f/1.8 lens.
24mm equivalent wide-angle.
1/1.7-inch CCD sensor. (This relatively large sensor combined with a somewhat lower 10MP resolution means larger photosites/pixels for improved high ISO performance)
Full manual exposure controls, plus aperture and shutter priority.
RAW capture.
Hotshoe for flashguns.
920k dot 3" tilt/swivel AMOLED screen.
@Pojomofo
You think more megapixels=better IQ. You're new here I assume?
@Temple
I know.
When I said "I'd pay the price for a great snapper with big sensor and great low light capabilities." I didn't mean this one..
@huzzlehoff
Please show me where I stated that more MP equals better quality.
Im certainly not as much of a camera buff as some on here, but Im not a complete noob either. For me personally, I usually go with the best bang for your buck on anything that I buy. I dont buy the cheapest and I dont buy things purely for the overinflated name brand.
This camera does not belong in the same sentance as "bang for you buck"
@Temple
There is a niche for a camera like this (and Canon's G-series). Some people want a compact with full manual controls, RAW capture, decent high ISO performance, and a relatively fast zoom lens. They don't need interchangeable lenses, and don't need high burst rates either. Portability is obviously a premium.
Pricing wise, this camera and similar ones are still cheaper than all the current mFT and mirrorless APS-C cameras. And they are smaller than those alternatives once you put any non-pancake lens on, particularly a zoom lens.
Admittedly, this niche is a pretty small one.
@Pojomofo i love jackasses like you who have no clue about photography and just puke it out. I have Canon G10 and it's amazing camera - takes gzillion times better photos than tiny portable cameras and still fits in my pocket. Now you get who some of us buy cameras like this?
@Pojomofo
"with only 10MP to boot"
@Temple
I don't doubt that you're right. But you do come off sounding like kind of a know it all douche.
@LeeBongSmith
Version 2.0 will add 720p and a better lense. Version 3.0 will add other stuff, while 2.0 will sell for $100 bucks less. It will not be until then that I see this as a great value.
So, yeah, two years from now I'll buy version 2.0 of this camera, but by then other cams will have better features for a better price anyway, so it's hard to say.
I do like the styling and build quality though. :)
@Temple You really don't know what you are talking about.
"$450 is close to the mirror less dSLR sensor cameras, like the MicroFourThirds(mFT), and Sony NEX3/5."
Please, tell me which mirrorless system is "close" to 450$?
The old EP-1 is 580$ body only.
The EP-L1 is 550$ body only.
The NEX3 with 18-55 is 599$.
(BHPhoto prices)
Nothing comes close to 450$ or to the 24-72.
"Moreover, these mirror-less cameras aren't that much bigger and are just as compact as this camera."
They are small only when used with the primes. Put a zoom and suddenly it is not so small.
This camera has its target customers.
@Atkins
You can get body-only EPL1 for around $470 and one with a lens for a little over $500 with a 3x lens (w/ 14-42mm which is 28-84mm equiv via 2x crop). NEX3 with lens is $550 and that camera has an ISO 12,800 and can take clean images at ISO3200. And these prices are coming down rapidly, and keep in mind interchangeable lenses you can keep as you upgrade in the future.
http://shopper.cnet.com/1770-5_9-0.html?query=EPL1&tag=srch
The fact is for $50-100 more you get a sensor that is around 9 times as large and vastly superior interchangeable glass.
Also, its NOT a 24-72mm lens, physically its only a 5-16mm lens. 24-72 is trying to describe the field of view it will get due to its large crop-factor, so FOV "equivalent to 35mm full-frame"
Again, a 1/1.7" sensor is a 4.55x crop, let's put it this way, the TL500 aperture size at F1.8 shot wide is only ~2.7 mm in diameter with an aperture area of ~5mm^2, an APS-C lens will have an aperture area larger then 113mm^2. The fact is a dSLR lens with a F1.8 will allow 20 times more light expose a sensor that is 9 times larger compared to this camera.
This is huge, and you can't overcome the basic physics of it. Larger sensor & better glass will produce better images over a larger range of lighting conditions.
The inescapable fact is that the TL500 is overpriced and under performs given modern competition. For $450 same-old P&S quality just won't do anymore.
@Temple "This is huge, and you can't overcome the basic physics of it. Larger sensor & better glass will produce better images over a larger range of lighting conditions."
Sure, but an A900 will produce even better images. We can go on like this forever. It is still cheaper (100$ is 100$ and you still don't get this range - btw I really don't see what you mean by "vastly" superior glass) AND smaller and lighter. You pay for the convenience. IMHO it is worth the price. Ok, maybe 400$. I haven't seen it for real, but the build quality looks very good. I can't say that for the NEX3, for example. Also having lens this fast, is pretty amazing if you ask me. At 72mm it is at 2.4!
I am not saying it is better than mirrorless, but it has its appeal.
Often with my G10 the results aren't that far away from my A700 with Zeiss for small prints.
@Atkins
Again, the lens isn't fast, the "F1.8" is BS, its only relevant to 5mm which this camera really is (it says so directly on the lens on the picture in this article "5.2-15.6mms").
An F-number is a ratio of focal length relative to the aperture size, in terms of a dSLR lens this is actually has a F/10 lens in the context of 24-72mm lens. This is a slow lens if we are comparing it to a dSLR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number
The problem is that all high-end P&S are moving to dSLR sensors, for $20-70 more even on today's market you can get a a camera that has interchangeable lenses, a sensor that is an order of magnitude larger, and is just as compact.
In fact Panasonic's new LX is rumored to be moving to a mFT dSLR sensor with a fixed lens cheaper then what this is selling for, and Canon and Nikon is expected to also bring out compact in this segment with a dSLR sensor.
@Temple "Again, the lens isn't fast, the "F1.8" is BS, its only relevant to 5mm which this camera really is.
An F-number is a ratio of focal length relative to the aperture size, in terms of a dSLR lens this is actually has a F/10 lens in the context of 24-72mm lens."
No, an F1.8 is F1.8. It does let the same amount of light per unit. Well, it's not that simple either, but anyway - the quality of the lens must be there - hence, pricey.
The real problem is the smaller sensor - this affects DOF etc. Sure, an APS-C sensor would have better IQ. But you still forget that some people would trade some IQ for convenience of use.
"The problem is that all high-end P&S are moving to dSLR sensors, for $20-70 more even on today's market you can get a a camera that has interchangeable lenses, a sensor that is an order of magnitude larger, and is just as compact."
For me mirrorless aren't P&S. They are bigger. Check the NEX with its 18-55 lens and try to put it in your pocket versus this Samsung. Having interchangeable lenses is certainly a feature that me and you would consider important, but many people out there do not care and frankly even for me sometimes it can be a PITA so I just use my G10. Convenience - it is smaller than mirrorless no matter how you put it.
Compared to any P&S this thing has the fastest lens and as you know it costs money to produce faster lenses, not to mention that they need better AF.
"In fact Panasonic's new LX is rumored to be moving to a mFT dSLR sensor with a fixed lens cheaper then what this is selling for, and Canon and Nikon is expected to also bring out compact in this segment with a dSLR sensor"
Oh, yes, heard that rumor, definitely waiting for this, I hope they put some manual control like the DMC_LC1.
I like the design, but I could take a longer zoom range
@huzzlehoff
so we cant switch lens' on this bad boy?
@tricheboars
Nah
lol G'damn. I saw that giant F1.8 on the bottom. They dont play around with their marketing.
@Baconbits
Dude, they need to take that off. It looks soooo cheesy on an otherwise attractive camera.
sadly, it's a slow tank and only fires 2 shots every 3 seconds
@zfhanbenjamin Yet the lens is 1.8
too bulky and offers little advantage over an S90, although wider trumps zoom any day. but really, who cares about zoom? i rarely use zoom on my S90.
@etwashoo2
Exactly. I tend to treat my zoom capable cameras and camcorder as having a prime lens anyway. I don't need to be zooming in and out to frame my shot. I want to be close to the subject for the best image quality.
How does this compare to the Canon S90?
@kettyserene you mean Canon G11 correct?
@Jimbojones
No I meant the S90...G11 doesn't perform well under low light due to the aperture.
@kettyserene Very well IMHO. Faster lens, wider angle, swivel LCD. Although the Control ring on the S90 is awesome.
@kettyserene
I don't know about that. If I remember correctly one of the G11s marketing points was that it was a camera that was great at low light photos. Thats why the megapixel count went down from 14=>10.
It's so ugly, I just wonder how many people that puts off.
Schneider leneses are very good when it comes to professional lenses. They are very big as good as Leica and Zeiss lenses. But I wonder how good they are in PHD (push here dummy) cameras.
I have no problem with 10 megapixels. For such cameras, going higher than that just introduces quality-damaging noise. Price-wise, it's not bad. Just because it's close to the bottom of the line Canons and Nikons and Sonys doesn't mean squat.
Those cameras are great for what they are, but serious camers they are not. They can't stand up to serious use. I bet this camera will take a beating that a Digital Rebel would crack with.
@Leicaman I very much like the design of the camera. It's similar to the G11 design, looks a little industrial.
I agree with you though, 10mp enough the focus should be on quality not MP, price wise not bad.. heck, even the zoom range doesn't both me. It's a nice midrange zoom and goes to f/1.8.. awesome.
I would buy one of these if it had HD video, that's really the deal breaker for me. I don't understand why the camera companies are excluding this feature. The Canon SX20 shoots 720p, but the G11 doesn't.. maybe they're afraid that they'll put all the features in one camera and then I won't need to buy another.
Where is the tl350?????
@Jfunknastyb
whats so special about it (tl350)?
i mean, mostly all the special features are copied from the casio EX-FH100 (1000 fps video, pre capture, back illuminated sensor, so on)
This is a beautiful camera! It is direct competition for the largely popular Panasonic LX3, and even to a degree the S90. I have no idea what Temple is trying to say, but 1.8 means I get the shot that I need in low light without a flash... whereas, when you grab a micro four thirds camera, you are sitting on an f stop of 3.5 at BEST. Sorry, there are no fast micro four thirds lenses, and when they do make them they will be extremely expensive.
@Bhima
I'm surprised I had to scroll down this far to see someone mention this in comparison to an LX3. I'm glad to see more camera manufacturers going into this niche. I want something that can carried in my pocket. I don't want a removable lens, I just one one lens that does really well in most situations. A camera is no good to you if you don't have it with you when something happens.
I
Does Samsung not know that cameras are used heavily outdoors? Why would they put an AMOLED screen on a camera?
@joefresco What do you want them to put?
@joefresco
I have an AMOLED screen on my Samsung NV24HD and I can assure you that it is wonderful...both indoors and out.
My EOS 20D still takes images that knock the G10 into a cocked hat at pixel level, but damn if the G10 isn't so delightful to use in manual mode when lugging the EOS would be a pain. It also means I can save the EOS for special shots like last night where I was out with it for five hours taking long-exposures. There is a definite niche for fully-manual compacts, which means you keep the control and save having to lug the DSLR to places whereby they aren't majorly convenient.
EX1 won the European Advanced Compat Camera 2010~2011 from EISA. Here is more information.
http://www.samsungimaging.net/2010/08/16/the-european-advanced-compact-camera-2010-2011-from-eisa-samsung-ex1tl500/