Well I always thought Vista was good but got a bad wrap. Also Vista got much better with SP1, maybe iPhone 4 will get much better if they can patch it.
@Prince David problem with vista is that people upgraded machines with terrible hardware specs... iphone 4 had major hardware flaws... i can see the similarities a little
@Mikeman33 It was pretty bad before SP1, so bad in fact that I, like many other migrated back down to XP for a while. Now that all the kinks have been worked out I find it's actually quite an enjoyable OS to use.
I thought the same thing yesterday - of course, I'm not a Microsoft exec, so it's ok for me to say it.
Mostly, I just wanted to be able to say that I thought of it before that guy did. I bet he's really embarrassed that people on Engadget already thought of that.
@Prince David I'd much rather see an executive who can admit to the truth than one who's still trying to spin BS. If there's anyone at MS who thinks Vista wasn't a PR nightmare, he's the problem, not Kevin Turner. It was actually a very apt analogy- both are fundamentally good products with a few weaknesses that have drawn disproportionate amounts of criticism.
@yankdez You mean Windows 95 which pretty much set the standards for all modern operating systems? That Windows 95? If that was your attempt to make the iphone 4 look bad, you fail.
While I will agree that Vista wasn't as bad as the press/bloggers made it out to be (kinda like what they did with Toyota) ... I did notice a big difference in Windows 7, especially with Startup/Shutdown and RAM usage. I'm glad I upgraded.
Yeah - I didn't find his comment inappropriate at all.
The problem with Vista was much more of an issue around perception. The perception was that Vista was junk. The reality was that Vista was a solid OS - so long as you were upgrading a PC with appropriate specs.
I really think the iPhone issue is getting more press than it deserves. It's a problem - sure. But the perception is significantly worse than the actual issue.
Another way Turner could have said the same thing is, "Apple is experiencing a little of what we experienced with the release of Vista." That's not a dig on Vista or the iPhone. I'm sure that's what he meant.
Hahah this CEO guy failed too hard. That's like Bush saying the oil spill is Obama's Katrina. While at first the likening makes sense, it just makes us remember how much of a fail you pulled off first.
@Prince David The main difference is that I'm pretty sure Apple will do the right thing in the end, even if they are slow (in internet speed) to act right now as they figure what is going on. Yes, the answers Apple has given so far is BS, but so were MSes answers to Vista's flaws initially. "It's the video drivers fault, not ours" and so on.
Microsoft sat around for 3 years, and fixed Vista with a paid upgrade to Windows 7. No discounts or anything for customers burned by Vista. Yeah, sure, SP1 helped a little, but there was still fundamental flaws under the hood that remain to this day that kept it out of the development environment across many companies.
Where Vista and the iPhone 4 do share a lot of commonalities is the development process. Both were rushed out the door, and quality suffered. The Vista that shipped was 18 months worth of work after a code restart back to 2003 SP1 level. A very short time at the end where the driver layer was solid for manufacturers to write proper drivers. iOS 4 is still missing features like the Game Center promised, and the hardware clearly didn't get the wide field testing outside a case that it needed.
Counterproductive? Try brilliant. Apple launched an entire ad campaign centered around Vista being a flop.... now this is turning that momentum right back against them......
Don't act like there's actually tech-savvy people out there who weren't aware Vista had a bad reputation... he wasn't exactly revealing a huge secret by implicating his own company's product....
@fragmit I wouldn't give Win95 credit for that. That credit probably goes more to Classic MacOS. It had a more refined UI long before Win95 came along. Apple definitely let that stagnant for quite awhile before the revamp with OSX. Win95 brought the PC platform more on par with MacOS at the time.
I agree. Apple controls their hardware. People were trying to put Vista on some old ghetto chepo Packard Bell and wonder why it sucked. It was way better then it got credit for, not perfect by any means.. but not as bad as the rap it got.
@Prince David Think about it, Mr Turner should have said "iPhone 4 is Apple's Kin". May be we would get a long email full of Mr. Jobs' tantrum to enjoy then.
He missed the opportunity to boost up the popcorn industry a little
I'm using Vista now with zero problems. Propably you'll use your Iphone 4 without problems too, but the lauch has been shadowed by death grip and others problems. So the comparison is good...
@Elchupacabra I agree with your thoughts as well. Better to recognize you failed or didn't quite live up to the hype in order to avoid making the same mistake twice.
In that regard, isn't Apple living in denial? I mean look what happened in the 80's and what is happening now.
@Prince David exactly. And in terms of enterprise use, it's got some nice features. For instance deploying images across thousands of computers across a University became easy because of non hardware specific imaging. Just throw a bunch of drivers on an image and let Vista figure it out...worked surprisingly well.
@nicholas1987ucsb Personally I think its brilliant. At least Microsoft is admitting they screwed up and released a crappy product, which is more than I think we'll ever see Apple do.
@Prince David I agree... At least Windows Vista booted up, which is the raison detre of a Operating System, also like a phones reason is to, drums, make calls. Which iPhone 4 is not very convincing on that front...
Hey Paul, dont get pissed off everytime that someone takes a jab at Apple. You guys here at Engadget worked very hard for Apple to take more spotlight so now that Apple is there they will certainly hear some boos around the audience. If one day they become number 1 in everything they do there will be people, MUCH MORE, saying that Apple is more evil.
@bjsguess "I really think the iPhone issue is getting more press than it deserves. It's a problem - sure. But the perception is significantly worse than the actual issue." Quoted for truth!
@rjc34 so i guess all the people who bought Vista (before SP1) were "sheep" and "diehard MS fanboys"? Or does that sort of classification apply exclusively to consumers of apple products? Because I'm pretty sure apple sold 2 million phones to lots of people beyond the "hardcore" loyalists.
@nicholas1987ucsb Nooo...lt means it is a test of a presidents resolve in the face of undue criticism. Both Obama and Bush had and have very little ability to affect the situation. But they both did and are doing what they can do legally to fix the problem. For Bush the problem was that New Orlean's Mayor did not allow FEMA in until the media showed how bad it really was. With Obama he is dealing with a foreign own company in international waters. There is only so much they can do.
With Vista and the new iPhone they both have their problems, and they are serious problems with a percentage of the population. One of the problems is public perception of the flaws. If you acknowledge the problem and set to work on fixing it, you'll still get flak. However if you don't acknowledge the problem, even if you are secretly working to fix it. Well, that is damning.
@Prince David Another Apple critique that engadgets hacks feel the need to spin - shocker. How many of these guys does Steve have hanging off his nuts?
@bjsguess neither do i. its such a great analogy. not because its true but like engadget said, they were saying "hey the new iphone is as shitty as we are!"
its funny. and if you cant giggle a little then ill take you to get a happy meal.
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Well I always thought Vista was good but got a bad wrap. Also Vista got much better with SP1, maybe iPhone 4 will get much better if they can patch it.
@Prince David problem with vista is that people upgraded machines with terrible hardware specs... iphone 4 had major hardware flaws... i can see the similarities a little
@Prince David
I agree, I am still using Vista and I find it to be a good OS. Not great, but definitely not as horrible as some people make it seem.
@Prince David Patch...tape...I got it!! lolololol
Or was that not the joke?
@yankdez which would make android D.O.S. right..
@Mikeman33
It was pretty bad before SP1, so bad in fact that I, like many other migrated back down to XP for a while. Now that all the kinks have been worked out I find it's actually quite an enjoyable OS to use.
I thought the same thing yesterday - of course, I'm not a Microsoft exec, so it's ok for me to say it.
Mostly, I just wanted to be able to say that I thought of it before that guy did. I bet he's really embarrassed that people on Engadget already thought of that.
@Prince David I'd much rather see an executive who can admit to the truth than one who's still trying to spin BS. If there's anyone at MS who thinks Vista wasn't a PR nightmare, he's the problem, not Kevin Turner. It was actually a very apt analogy- both are fundamentally good products with a few weaknesses that have drawn disproportionate amounts of criticism.
@yankdez You mean Windows 95 which pretty much set the standards for all modern operating systems? That Windows 95? If that was your attempt to make the iphone 4 look bad, you fail.
@Prince David
While I will agree that Vista wasn't as bad as the press/bloggers made it out to be (kinda like what they did with Toyota) ... I did notice a big difference in Windows 7, especially with Startup/Shutdown and RAM usage. I'm glad I upgraded.
@Prince David
"maybe iPhone 4 will get much better if they can patch it."
Oh it will. You just need to put the patch in the right place.
@Prince David
Yeah - I didn't find his comment inappropriate at all.
The problem with Vista was much more of an issue around perception. The perception was that Vista was junk. The reality was that Vista was a solid OS - so long as you were upgrading a PC with appropriate specs.
I really think the iPhone issue is getting more press than it deserves. It's a problem - sure. But the perception is significantly worse than the actual issue.
Another way Turner could have said the same thing is, "Apple is experiencing a little of what we experienced with the release of Vista." That's not a dig on Vista or the iPhone. I'm sure that's what he meant.
@Prince David
Hahah this CEO guy failed too hard. That's like Bush saying the oil spill is Obama's Katrina. While at first the likening makes sense, it just makes us remember how much of a fail you pulled off first.
@Prince David
The main difference is that I'm pretty sure Apple will do the right thing in the end, even if they are slow (in internet speed) to act right now as they figure what is going on. Yes, the answers Apple has given so far is BS, but so were MSes answers to Vista's flaws initially. "It's the video drivers fault, not ours" and so on.
Microsoft sat around for 3 years, and fixed Vista with a paid upgrade to Windows 7. No discounts or anything for customers burned by Vista. Yeah, sure, SP1 helped a little, but there was still fundamental flaws under the hood that remain to this day that kept it out of the development environment across many companies.
Where Vista and the iPhone 4 do share a lot of commonalities is the development process. Both were rushed out the door, and quality suffered. The Vista that shipped was 18 months worth of work after a code restart back to 2003 SP1 level. A very short time at the end where the driver layer was solid for manufacturers to write proper drivers. iOS 4 is still missing features like the Game Center promised, and the hardware clearly didn't get the wide field testing outside a case that it needed.
@yankdez I would actually say more like Windows ME
Engadget always needs something to support Apple in some or the other way.
@Prince David
Counterproductive? Try brilliant. Apple launched an entire ad campaign centered around Vista being a flop.... now this is turning that momentum right back against them......
Don't act like there's actually tech-savvy people out there who weren't aware Vista had a bad reputation... he wasn't exactly revealing a huge secret by implicating his own company's product....
@Prince David
engadget is so biased. its completely obvious and disgusting
@fragmit I wouldn't give Win95 credit for that. That credit probably goes more to Classic MacOS. It had a more refined UI long before Win95 came along. Apple definitely let that stagnant for quite awhile before the revamp with OSX. Win95 brought the PC platform more on par with MacOS at the time.
@Prince David
I agree. Apple controls their hardware. People were trying to put Vista on some old ghetto chepo Packard Bell and wonder why it sucked. It was way better then it got credit for, not perfect by any means.. but not as bad as the rap it got.
@Prince David Think about it, Mr Turner should have said "iPhone 4 is Apple's Kin". May be we would get a long email full of Mr. Jobs' tantrum to enjoy then.
He missed the opportunity to boost up the popcorn industry a little
@yankdez no its more like Windows ME lol watch it even crash live on tv LOL
@Prince David iPhone 4 SP1, Bumper Edition
@drakino Apple do the right thing? Like they did with the iPad's known WiFi issues? Where's that patch?
@Prince David
that makes sense. Never really used vista windows 7 is much better ANYWAY...
For the fanboys in regards to his comment...Takes one to know one!
@Prince David
I'm using Vista now with zero problems. Propably you'll use your Iphone 4 without problems too, but the lauch has been shadowed by death grip and others problems. So the comparison is good...
But you can't criticize Apple. Right, Engadget?
@Prince David
Exactly.
How can it be apples vista anyway? It won't sell anywhere near the amount vista did. ;)
@Prince David I know, vista was perfectly fine for me. Althought it was heavy on system resources...
@Elchupacabra I agree with your thoughts as well. Better to recognize you failed or didn't quite live up to the hype in order to avoid making the same mistake twice.
In that regard, isn't Apple living in denial? I mean look what happened in the 80's and what is happening now.
What antenna problem?
@Prince David exactly. And in terms of enterprise use, it's got some nice features. For instance deploying images across thousands of computers across a University became easy because of non hardware specific imaging. Just throw a bunch of drivers on an image and let Vista figure it out...worked surprisingly well.
@rjc34 Same here. Vista 64-bit is actually quite nice, IF you have the specs to run it.
@Prince David
Sounds like when Republicans called the Oil Spill "Obama's Katrina"
It's a tacit admission of their own failure.
@nicholas1987ucsb Personally I think its brilliant. At least Microsoft is admitting they screwed up and released a crappy product, which is more than I think we'll ever see Apple do.
@Prince David I agree... At least Windows Vista booted up, which is the raison detre of a Operating System, also like a phones reason is to, drums, make calls. Which iPhone 4 is not very convincing on that front...
Hey Paul, dont get pissed off everytime that someone takes a jab at Apple. You guys here at Engadget worked very hard for Apple to take more spotlight so now that Apple is there they will certainly hear some boos around the audience. If one day they become number 1 in everything they do there will be people, MUCH MORE, saying that Apple is more evil.
@BulletToothTony no, it would be TERMINAL. get your os's correct :/
@bjsguess "I really think the iPhone issue is getting more press than it deserves. It's a problem - sure. But the perception is significantly worse than the actual issue."
Quoted for truth!
@rjc34
so i guess all the people who bought Vista (before SP1) were "sheep" and "diehard MS fanboys"? Or does that sort of classification apply exclusively to consumers of apple products? Because I'm pretty sure apple sold 2 million phones to lots of people beyond the "hardcore" loyalists.
@Prince David
he wasn't the first person to say this...ZDnet.com said it first on their site
@nicholas1987ucsb Nooo...lt means it is a test of a presidents resolve in the face of undue criticism. Both Obama and Bush had and have very little ability to affect the situation. But they both did and are doing what they can do legally to fix the problem. For Bush the problem was that New Orlean's Mayor did not allow FEMA in until the media showed how bad it really was. With Obama he is dealing with a foreign own company in international waters. There is only so much they can do.
With Vista and the new iPhone they both have their problems, and they are serious problems with a percentage of the population. One of the problems is public perception of the flaws. If you acknowledge the problem and set to work on fixing it, you'll still get flak. However if you don't acknowledge the problem, even if you are secretly working to fix it. Well, that is damning.
@Prince David Microsoft wish they sold as many Vista copies as Apple has iPhone 4s.
@Prince David Another Apple critique that engadgets hacks feel the need to spin - shocker. How many of these guys does Steve have hanging off his nuts?
@bjsguess neither do i. its such a great analogy. not because its true but like engadget said, they were saying "hey the new iphone is as shitty as we are!"
its funny. and if you cant giggle a little then ill take you to get a happy meal.
@NHAnimator
Actually, it's the left place
@fragmit I agree, Windows 95 was a good OS, now he could have compared it to Windows ME if he wanted to compare it to an older OS.
@Kid Red lol?
@fragmit
are you kidding me with that statement? Are you THAT clueless?
@d0ug
Windows fans hate that fact, hence your downranking. It's how they hide the truth.
@Joao Cagao
On the other hand you're getting downranked purely because you're a dickhead.
@DougieBear
I guess there are just more MS 'sheep' then, right?
@MarkAnderson
well, if that is the case, why aren't you downranked yet?