@coolkams03 Well, considering his position as one of their lead engineers, with several patents under his belt, if he is fired he won't have too much trouble finding a job.
As for the implications of this? Here's one: if that engineer documented his concerns, and the current class action proceeds to discovery, that document will have to be disclosed. That will make it tough for Apple to avoid summary judgment, making a trial a possibility. This Apple will never let happen. So, basically, if there is a document that expresses these concerns, Apple on Friday will be announcing something - free bumpers, recall, etc. - that will basically wipe out that class action suit and make this issue go away. Otherwise, they'll be spending A LOT of money on legal bills.
@urandom Apparently Nokia did or something like that years back... " Apple thought they were being smart in bypassing Nokia patented cellphone antennae technology that they are currently being sued for but Nokia already patented this body antennae in 2001. They released a phone with the same problem in 2002 and have of course learnt from it. Apple in its stubborn refusal to pay Nokia royalties is fucking up badly!"
@NHAnimator Of course Apple will not get itself into a situation of bad PR. I think a certain engineer is however going to encounter a very unfortunate accident very soon.
funny you should say that. I know a lot of blackberry and nokia series 60 users who'd prove you wrong. As a former nokia n95 user, I can testify that both the phone and the UI were superb, and did everything that was asked of them
@coolkams03 If I were a distinguished engineer with a few patents to my name, I would come clean on the issue and not get my reputation smudged because some higher-ups went against my well reason objections. Either Apple will keep him employed to avoid more bad PR, or fire him. If the latter happens, I'm sure there's a lot of similar companies waiting to hire a skilled engineer with integrity.
@Jomolungma plus, if they fire this guy he has some power behind him to claim unfair dismissal, doubly so if this problem DOES go to court overall, apple is in the shits, im just a bit intrigued as to what happens tomorrow, but i guess its SJ working his magic and fool the people into thinking everything is ok XD id be so pissed if my phone was effected, even more so if it required me to have a rubber protector around my phone or have my phone taken back in
@MrDiSante Well, it's too late now. Now that there's a law suit, any destruction of documents would probably lead to some pretty heavy sanctions by the court. Even if they destroyed them before the case was filed, I'm sure the plaintiffs can find someone who can testify to that destruction at trial, which wouldn't help Apple either.
I haven't read the Bloomberg article, but the wording that they use here suggests that someone ELSE told Bloomberg that Ruben Caballero had spoken up about it
@coolkams03 Er no, they didn't give the informants name, they simply gave the name of the lead antenna engineer who informed apple there would be issues.
@BMills - I really hope you are kidding there... If you seriously think that lost unit was the ONLY test unit, and the fact that they lost it was what kept them from fixing the problem... You've been drinking way too much Apple flavored Kool-Aid.
It had issues, Apple either didn't know or didn't care, and rushed it out the door to make their deadline. Period. That one lost prototype version made absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things.
@tu madre i wonder if this employee will leave his documentation of the so called concern, and Steve's answer not big deal, on a bar desk after a couple of Buds.... :) and Gizmo editors are offered to buy the document :) would be good PR :)
Lmao isn't this really fox conns fault? I mean apple gives it to some of its employeess to use, thats about it, if it was on theirs they probably didn't even notice.
Seems like they OBVIOUSLY are not pushing their workers hard enough if they forget to throw on a layer of coating on some of these iPhones. Probably too busy using the company pool.
@urandom the iphone came shortly out after the N95. Friend of mine has chosen to wait for the iphone (damn apple fanboi lol) while i took the N95 (mostly cause of the specs)
Today I still use the N95 and he dumped his original iphone recently. There's not once he did not complain about: camera, no gps, edge only, slow, bugged lol (and yet, he bought an iphone 4.. apple fanboi !)
@Jomolungma There are some pretty heavy guidelines, rules and regulations post-Enron on how long certain documents need to be kept.
Considering most companies, in order to be compliant to these set up automatic document retention policies, it would be a fairly large pain in the *** to dig through it all and delete any mention of it, and way, way to risky to try and delete an entire email thread considering the trail that will leave.
Not to mention there are certain companies who make some great e-discovery productions, and others who are very, very good at lost data recovery.
It's no longer a question of IF, but WHEN the lawsuits against Apple reach the court, and getting caught trying to hide and/or destroy documents won't be good.
This morning on Morning Joe, Jim Cramer was poo-pooing that this antenna issue would have any lasting affects on Apple. I wonder how the kool-aid will taste when he learns about this?
Honestly, ignoring the antenna concerns just shows the arrogance of people high up. However the consumer who eats up everything offered by Apple have only themselves to blame. If more people would complain and demand a working model you would have seen a much quicker response from Apple.
I am sure if they fire him he can sue with the support of the government, well at least MD Attorney General (they have a class action suit granted already) and many scientists and other engineers and Consumer Reports to back him.
- iPhone 4 needed more juice for its battery and screen. - The designers decided to push the antenna outside. - Holding the phone showed bad results on bars. - Apple said, "No problem, we'll make the iPhone show more bars than what really should show." - Unfortunately, 1% of iPhone users weren't brain dead fanbois and discovered what Apple had done. - Apple lied, and said: "We found out the problem! Turns out that -unintentionally- the iPhone shows more bars than the reality." - 0.5% of iPhone users felt that made no sense.
Now that iPhone 4's antenna issues have made it to Egyptian newspaper frontpages halfway across the globe, Apple scheduled a damage control conference where they will make up a more believable lie.
@lowspeed You're correct. But not all states recognize this. There are a few that don't http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment But looks like as far as CA is concerned, you can be fired for any reason, as long as its not discriminatory.
[Where their CEO, thinking of himself as the smartest man on earth and completely invincible] lies, denies the obvious, insults his users, and generally carries on like the complete asshole every non-Apple fanboy knows him to be.
Tomorrow, Apple will announce they're giving away FREE bumper cases to all affected consumers.
I have no doubt the entire board of directors overrode Jobs on this decision and probably froze him in carbonite to prevent him from doing any more damage.
The whole line-up consists of the $60 Amps in-ears and $100 Tracks on-ear headphones, which both also come in slightly souped-up and pricier HD variations at $100 and $130, respectively.
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"And it repented Steve that he had made the iPhone 4, and it grieved him at his heart." Genesis 6:6 (KJV)
How did they reveal the name of the employee? Is he already fired? If not, he will soon be.
@coolkams03
If they fire the one guy who yelled "Wolf!", then that would be REALLY bad PR.
@coolkams03
Yeah, that was pretty dumb for them to use his name....
@TheSeanWilson
What's an iPhone anyway?
Good Luck For Tomorrow Apple.
@TheSeanWilson
Sounds like somebody is about to find a new job in Washington
If you need a press conference to address the issues, you blew it.
@TheSeanWilson
At least now we know why "No one has ever attempted" such antenna design ...
@coolkams03 Well, considering his position as one of their lead engineers, with several patents under his belt, if he is fired he won't have too much trouble finding a job.
As for the implications of this? Here's one: if that engineer documented his concerns, and the current class action proceeds to discovery, that document will have to be disclosed. That will make it tough for Apple to avoid summary judgment, making a trial a possibility. This Apple will never let happen. So, basically, if there is a document that expresses these concerns, Apple on Friday will be announcing something - free bumpers, recall, etc. - that will basically wipe out that class action suit and make this issue go away. Otherwise, they'll be spending A LOT of money on legal bills.
@urandom Apparently Nokia did or something like that years back...
" Apple thought they were being smart in bypassing Nokia patented cellphone antennae technology that they are currently being sued for but Nokia already patented this body antennae in 2001. They released a phone with the same problem in 2002 and have of course learnt from it. Apple in its stubborn refusal to pay Nokia royalties is fucking up badly!"
@Jomolungma
Or they'll destroy the documents.
@coolkams03
I wonder if it's the same engineer that lost the phone. He seems prone to screwing apple over.
@NHAnimator
Of course Apple will not get itself into a situation of bad PR. I think a certain engineer is however going to encounter a very unfortunate accident very soon.
@urandom
yeah, and we also know why smartphones sucked ass until Apple started taking risks.
@TomSawyer
funny you should say that. I know a lot of blackberry and nokia series 60 users who'd prove you wrong. As a former nokia n95 user, I can testify that both the phone and the UI were superb, and did everything that was asked of them
@TomSawyer Well, phones are awesome now due to the iPhone's help, but this here is a pretty dumb risk to take.
@TheSeanWilson
Ruben is in trouble! (whether he was right or wrong).
@Failbait "nothing but a miserable pile of secrets" :P
@TheSeanWilson
haha...and the plot thickens....bigger and bigger hole for Apple.
(in Ricky Ricardo Voice) Apple you got some seplaining to do!
@coolkams03 If I were a distinguished engineer with a few patents to my name, I would come clean on the issue and not get my reputation smudged because some higher-ups went against my well reason objections. Either Apple will keep him employed to avoid more bad PR, or fire him. If the latter happens, I'm sure there's a lot of similar companies waiting to hire a skilled engineer with integrity.
@TheSeanWilson
Can we all take it easy on Apple over this?
We all know that they lost the test unit in a bar....so they didn't get to fix it before it launched!
@Jomolungma
plus, if they fire this guy he has some power behind him to claim unfair dismissal, doubly so if this problem DOES go to court
overall, apple is in the shits, im just a bit intrigued as to what happens tomorrow, but i guess its SJ working his magic and fool the people into thinking everything is ok XD
id be so pissed if my phone was effected, even more so if it required me to have a rubber protector around my phone or have my phone taken back in
@MrDiSante Well, it's too late now. Now that there's a law suit, any destruction of documents would probably lead to some pretty heavy sanctions by the court. Even if they destroyed them before the case was filed, I'm sure the plaintiffs can find someone who can testify to that destruction at trial, which wouldn't help Apple either.
Lesson being, don't write stuff down :-)
@urandom: LOL, great point~
@Plazmic Flame
I haven't read the Bloomberg article, but the wording that they use here suggests that someone ELSE told Bloomberg that Ruben Caballero had spoken up about it
@TheSeanWilson I would be fed up with all these Apple news if they hadn't been so damn entertaining.
@coolkams03
Er no, they didn't give the informants name, they simply gave the name of the lead antenna engineer who informed apple there would be issues.
@BMills - I really hope you are kidding there... If you seriously think that lost unit was the ONLY test unit, and the fact that they lost it was what kept them from fixing the problem... You've been drinking way too much Apple flavored Kool-Aid.
It had issues, Apple either didn't know or didn't care, and rushed it out the door to make their deadline. Period. That one lost prototype version made absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things.
@tu madre i wonder if this employee will leave his documentation of the so called concern, and Steve's answer not big deal, on a bar desk after a couple of Buds.... :) and Gizmo editors are offered to buy the document :) would be good PR :)
@urandom
You know what they should have done?
Put the antenna gap on the bottom of the phone.
But they didn't because they love symmetry or whatevs.
@TheSeanWilson
Lmao isn't this really fox conns fault? I mean apple gives it to some of its employeess to use, thats about it, if it was on theirs they probably didn't even notice.
Seems like they OBVIOUSLY are not pushing their workers hard enough if they forget to throw on a layer of coating on some of these iPhones. Probably too busy using the company pool.
@HoldenMccrotch That's not how it works in the US. You can be fired for any reason (other than what's protected by law)
@urandom the iphone came shortly out after the N95. Friend of mine has chosen to wait for the iphone (damn apple fanboi lol) while i took the N95 (mostly cause of the specs)
Today I still use the N95 and he dumped his original iphone recently.
There's not once he did not complain about: camera, no gps, edge only, slow, bugged lol (and yet, he bought an iphone 4.. apple fanboi !)
@BMills Are you really so thick that you believe they had one, and only one test unit?
Oh, brother.
@Jomolungma
There are some pretty heavy guidelines, rules and regulations post-Enron on how long certain documents need to be kept.
Considering most companies, in order to be compliant to these set up automatic document retention policies, it would be a fairly large pain in the *** to dig through it all and delete any mention of it, and way, way to risky to try and delete an entire email thread considering the trail that will leave.
Not to mention there are certain companies who make some great e-discovery productions, and others who are very, very good at lost data recovery.
It's no longer a question of IF, but WHEN the lawsuits against Apple reach the court, and getting caught trying to hide and/or destroy documents won't be good.
@TheSeanWilson
GUYS MARK MY WORDS:
It was a production problem by those evil foxcon suiciders and now everything is good. they just "forgot" to add coating.
@Jomolungma
This morning on Morning Joe, Jim Cramer was poo-pooing that this antenna issue would have any lasting affects on Apple. I wonder how the kool-aid will taste when he learns about this?
@coolkams03
Honestly, ignoring the antenna concerns just shows the arrogance of people high up. However the consumer who eats up everything offered by Apple have only themselves to blame. If more people would complain and demand a working model you would have seen a much quicker response from Apple.
@TheSeanWilson If an tree falls in the forest, and millions of people see it, including the very people who helped grow it, will Apple deny it?
@coolkams03
I am sure if they fire him he can sue with the support of the government, well at least MD Attorney General (they have a class action suit granted already) and many scientists and other engineers and Consumer Reports to back him.
@TomSawyer
Wow do you hate and prey on anything that shows there may be the slightest truth that Apple is not absolutely perfect and infallible?
Yet the entire Engadget staff had little/no problems with iPhone 4 reception, and some found it *better* than the iPhone 3GS. That's a fact:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/13/yes-the-iphone-4-is-broken-no-the-iphone-4-is-not-broken/
Steve Jobs beats the haters (and naysaying engineers) once again.
Here's what happened:
- iPhone 4 needed more juice for its battery and screen.
- The designers decided to push the antenna outside.
- Holding the phone showed bad results on bars.
- Apple said, "No problem, we'll make the iPhone show more bars than what really should show."
- Unfortunately, 1% of iPhone users weren't brain dead fanbois and discovered what Apple had done.
- Apple lied, and said: "We found out the problem! Turns out that -unintentionally- the iPhone shows more bars than the reality."
- 0.5% of iPhone users felt that made no sense.
Now that iPhone 4's antenna issues have made it to Egyptian newspaper frontpages halfway across the globe, Apple scheduled a damage control conference where they will make up a more believable lie.
@HotFuzz
Money talks, or in this case, makes people talk how you want them to.....
@tu madre Thats a possibility if somehow Gray Powell changed his name to Ruben Caballero.
read much?
@NHAnimator I agree it's bad PR but so is all of this and so were the yellow iMac screens and the short battery life on the Nano and ...
It doesn't matter what Apple/Jobs does - they are untouchable and continue to break sales records year after year.
@lowspeed You're correct. But not all states recognize this. There are a few that don't http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment But looks like as far as CA is concerned, you can be fired for any reason, as long as its not discriminatory.
@tu madre
Steve Jobs is already doing that!
Forget the Microsoft references...
--- This is Apple's "Tiger Woods" moment ---
[Where their CEO, thinking of himself as the smartest man on earth and completely invincible] lies, denies the obvious, insults his users, and generally carries on like the complete asshole every non-Apple fanboy knows him to be.
Tomorrow, Apple will announce they're giving away FREE bumper cases to all affected consumers.
I have no doubt the entire board of directors overrode Jobs on this decision and probably froze him in carbonite to prevent him from doing any more damage.