Apple discussed Verizon switch 'at least half a dozen times,' and other stories about its AT&T relationship
By Ross Miller 
posted July 19th 2010 7:25PM
posted July 19th 2010 7:25PM
What's most interesting to us here is the ongoing reported discussion to drop AT&T in favor for Verizon. That chapter apparently begins just months after the original's launch, with an investigative team (including Scott Forstall) ultimately concluding that Qualcomm's CDMA (or CDMA / GSM hybrid) chips would require a complete redesign of the device, not to mention a nasty lawsuit with AT&T over its exclusive contract (perhaps a minor issue, knowing Apple). Back then, Verizon wasn't seen as a guaranteed improvement, and according to one executive privy to such meetings, the carrier switch has been discussed at least a half dozen times, with the general consensus always being that it would "cause as many problems as it solved." We can't imagine this is gonna help stem the perpetual VZW iPhone rumor mill.
Hit up the source link for the full tale, which does hit on a fundamental issue of the mobile industry going forward: as smartphone makers continue to push their devices' capabilities, bandwidth concerns will continue to grow and carriers are likely to take the majority of the blame. If you ask us, David Fincher has just found his ideal follow-up to The Social Network -- we'd especially love to see someone film the part where AT&T asks Steve Jobs to ditch the turtleneck and wear a suit when meeting with its board of directors.
Same shit
*madface*
@Elton007 different day
@Elton007 I never liked Scott Forstall
@Elton007
companies discuss all kinds of alternatives all the time for everything.
OMG BREAKING NEWS, COMPANY HAD A MEETING TO DISCUSS POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVES.
@Elton007
Truly, what an enlightening post Elton.
@Firewave
well at least he didn't say "shit just got real". i guess.
@Elton007
Verizon iPhone?
Windows Phone 7?
Galaxy S?
LTE?
Yeah, keep on dreaming.
@MGore32
Considering the sheer amount of idiots right here in Engadget's comment section who actually believe that Apple WANTS to be stuck exclusively with AT&T, this is actually very informative... for them. Those of us who aren't complete idiots knew this already.
@Elton007
Pics or it didn't happen
so long as the iPhone antenna actually works...
@Elton007 According to this Steve sounds like a total jerk/ass. I don't like him at all.
@Elton007 Yup I agree. It's the same crap. I can't believe this is news while there is no review or even coverage of the Samsung Captivate. I would probably understand if there are no news coverage for the Vibrant, Epic, Fascinate since there are a lot of good High End Android phones from those carriers, but the Captivate? Mind you, the Captivate is the first High End Android for AT&T that matches the iPhone 4 - no love from Engadget :( Just sad.
@SskyNnet he is!
@Elton007
Different day
@Elton007
The stupidest thing on Apples part was the "exclusive" deal. No such thing up North anymore but even though we have 5 carriers with the iPhone, they all have the same god damn price which is absolute bull shit, IMHO.
@Plazmic Flame
haha owned. whine more about it. wah wah i cant afford a phone with a fruit on it
@MicrosoftOwns well to Engadget's defense, they didn't mark this as "breaking"....
@Elton007
So basically no way in hell an Iphone for Big Red in the near to distant future. Got it, ATT is better in my area anyway.
@Elton007
This Engadget post is completely useless. We have to stop opening these ones so they stop posting this nonsense. How many comments are already up? This is what these bastards want, people reading their useless shit.
I remember when Engadget was about gadgets and not only high-end smartphones/Apple.Good times.
@Elton007 Unique Pain in the A** Partnership
@SskyNnet I'm sure Steve will lose sleep over your opinion of him.
Everyone always seems to forget that a CDMA handset is a dead end idea as it cannot be global, which apple obviously requires for the iphone to be successful. Stick to your droids you non gsm loving verizon fanboy idiots.
@keplenk
while the blog post isn't that in-depth on the article, I actually read the source article from Wired, and it's very enlightening. It describes the shift in power from at&t controlling their network towards apple and device & OS manufacturers. It describes how Google and Palm were able to demand more from their devices because of the precedent of strong-arming the carriers that apple set, while mainly talking about iPhone & AT&T bickering. Also talks about how often Steve Jobs considered going to Verizon.
The source article also provides some excellent pompous apple quotes like...
When an AT&T representative suggested to one of Jobs’ deputies that the Apple CEO wear a suit to meet with AT&T’s board of directors, he was told, “We’re Apple. We don’t wear suits. We don’t even own suits.”
“We consistently said ‘No, we are not going to mess up the consumer experience on the iPhone to make your network tenable.’ They’d always end up saying, ‘We’re going to have to escalate this to senior AT&T executives,’ and we always said, ‘Fine, we’ll escalate it to Steve and see who wins.’
@CannedCorn You are aware that phones can do different bands correct? My blackberry is GSM capable and its a CDMA and I travel out of the US and its seemless transition. I think if Apple released the phone on Big Red it would actually make phone calls. And with a SIM it can cruise the world at your pleasure.
@CannedCorn You have no idea how cellphones work.
Leave this place.
how would a qualcom CDMA chip swap require a full product redesign? or did I mis read that part?
@spaz4322 Apple has been on AT&T for 3 years now and they don't even perfect theirs. So I think changing to CDMA will take them decades or something.
@spaz4322 Different chip pinout and/or different size chip would necessitate a new board layout. Also if the software interface is different then there's having to write new drivers. All of which incur a testing burden.
@spaz4322
I've been wondering that as well. Maybe somebody could ACTUALLY clear this up...
@spaz4322
It wouldn't require a full product redesign of the consumer's experiance, but it's a pretty different SoC and some new programming and circuitry would be involved.
@Roisen
I'm not doubting that it would take some work to make a Verizon version of the iPhone... but every other cell phone manufacturer has figured it out already.
If Motorola can simultaneously make the original CDMA Droid and the GSM Milestone... Apple should certainly be able to.
Maybe Apple hasn't bothered with making a CDMA iPhone because they couldn't sell it due to AT&T's exclusivity agreement. But that hasn't stopped Motorola, HTC, LG, Samsung and others from providing phones for Verizon's network.
@spaz4322
Yeah, if Samsung can crank out 4 variants of the Galaxy S across GSM and CDMA networks here, why is this stymieing Apple's vaunted engineers?
Remember the RAZR? That thing was *EVERYWHERE*.
Just more bullshit.
@slab
I have a really hard time believing that Apple doesn't have a CDMA phone already drawn up, just like the gadget sites all reported not too long ago.
if i were to believe what they said about Apple wanting to switch to Verizon shortly after creating the first iPhone then couldn't they have easily kept the design team and engineers around to fit in a CDMA chip, its not like they didn't have the ability to do that...yes apple would have to do some testing of the phone on Verizons network but they would totally be able to roll out a Verizon iPhone as soon as they are able to cut a deal with Verizon
@hellfroze The "Razr" didn't even have the same physical specs between GSM and CDMA. Different camera, one had no micro SD slot. One could sync with iTunes music. Get over it. There were massive differences between the Razr's and their respective cell tech. Enough to confuse anyone.
@Funkendoodles Same Blackberries go between GSM and CDMA. Qualcomm makes radio chips that do both. So the problem must be software radio stack.
@slab If Apple's overall testing procedures are anything like their antenna testing, they should be good to go right now.
@NuShrike As someone who has worked on GSM and CDMA mobile phone software, yes and no.
The chip handles pretty much all of the radio stuff nowdays. However there are significant differences in the CDMA/GSM systems that require some completely different handling in layers all they way through the phone. And this isn't just limited to the API exposed by the baseband processor.
This is apparent especially in the fact that CDMA can't do simultaneous data and voice.
Another problem is that when I was working on it all the CDMA phones we worked on used a single BP/AP SoC from qualcomm which is completely different architecturally from how GSM phones (and the iPhone) are configured.
This problem may have evaporated now, but this is part of the reason why CDMA phones always had different processor specs from GSM. It is also why they used BREW for apps rather than Java.
@NuShrike The iPhone is not a Blackberry. Case in point: Each model of Blackberry has its' own customized Blackberry OS version with different software features. Some have a cam, others a better multimedia player. Some allow GPS usage, depending on the cell service provider's demands. It's not like you can install the Blackberry Curve OS on a Blackberry Bold.
Some Blackberrys don't even have a track ball and can't run software that requires one. Then there is the Blackberry Storm. It doesn't do so well on GSM, does it? I heard there were problems with the GSM version.
@hellfroze
I agree. The razr was thin as hell yet they could make it for all carriers.
@craigrn16 Verizon and sprint both had there own proprietary user interfaces on their versions of the Razr. The CDMA versions could not Install games and apps from Motorola's website.
@craigrn16 So, what you are saying is that you only care what the phone looks like, not what it can actually do. The Razr's may have looked alike or similar, while the internal components and software was totally incompatible, but that's okay as long as you get the shiny pretty?
The best daytime drama we are all watching
@AlienSix
Its the days of our lives
@devildrifterx
Like Sands though the Series of Tubes...
@DeFlanko Which one is YouTube?
@AlienSix And really ridiculous if you look at it from an international perspective. I don't want to talk about Apple but AT&T and VZ are technologically so backwards it's just bad. In Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, most Asian countries and even in Uganda I have better networks than in the US. Why is AT&T refusing to even invest into their basic infrastructure?
And VZ? Wow, they were great in the 90s. Now their speed and overall technology just sucks big time.
Let's hope they get LTE out into the market quickly - it's about time.
VZW iPhone would be an epic win. Less stress on AT&T's network, more customer base for Apple and more options for the consumer. Everyone wins. If only it would happen...
@Rick Astley A VZW iPhone would be a Rick-Roll. Everybody falls for it then gets pissed.
@Rick Astley
you wish. Verizon has the coverage but not the ability. I keep hearing you and other people saying the same thing and you're wrong. Also, you think verizon will give up its v cast business for itunes? Huh!