India's desire to snoop on BlackBerry users continues unabated, UAE wants in on the act
By Joseph L. Flatley 
posted July 26th 2010 1:47PM
posted July 26th 2010 1:47PM
Governments have traditionally had a "love-hate" relationship with technology: they love using it to keep tabs on you and your cronies, but they hate the idea that you could be using it to protect your privacy. One clear example of this is the whole back'n'forth that's been playing out between RIM and the nation of India over the last couple years. Remember way back in '08 when the country demanded that the company give it access (one way or another) to encrypted BlackBerry Messenger traffic and email? Well, it looks like nothing's been resolved after all: just last week the Indian telecommunications ministry gave RIM until the end of the month to provide said access, otherwise it could ban BBM altogether -- much as it tried to do two years ago. Meanwhile, in the UAE, the Telecommunications Regulatory Authority has issued a statement claiming that "[c]ertain BlackBerry applications allow people to misuse the service, causing serious social, judicial and national security repercussions." We're not certain if things will go quite so far in Abu Dhabi as they seem to be in New Delhi, but the government assured everyone that it will find "a solution that safeguards our consumers and operates within the boundaries of UAE law."
India... make your 3g network first........
@Hell Angel
I thought BlackBerriy would work on GPRS network too. No?
@notsodumb
Sorry *BlackBerry
@Hell Angel there is 3g in india
@lifenexus
explain this please?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/19/indias-3g-auction-draws-to-a-close/
not being sarcastic or anything, but can you explain?
@Hell Angel
Two operators owned by the government MTNL and BSNL have been offering 3G for almost a year now. Both offer BB. The rest just bought their spectrum in the auction and are expected to launch by the end of the year. But in any case, BB works exceedingly well on GPRS and EDGE.
@Hell Angel bro i am usin 3g on bsnl..
Probably won't end well for BBM.
I live in the UAE and one of my friends who uses a BB said that this is all a bunch of BS. These authorities just have extra time in their hands. The UAE wants servers to be inside in the boundaries of the country which is not possible in anyway.
This will just fade away and UAE will be forced to allow everything as it is.
I remember when Etisalat was caught spying on emails and sms from all BB users, it wasn't such an issue for them at that time, now all of a sudden they care about what people don't even care about. They just want more reasons to have full control over everything that is being shared over email and chat.
@Saad
Given their iron-age policies towards women, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an offence for a female in the UAE to be caught operating a smartphone except in the presence of a male. Let's see who has the most restrictive (an inhumane) policies? RIM or UAE?
@Canucker
As I understand it, the UAE is probably the most modern and free country out of all the Arab countries (although maybe Kuwait is up there, too). Doesn't mean they're the same as a Western European nation or the US, but as far as Arab countries go, they're pretty well advanced.
@Canucker
I'm more surprised at your stone-age ignorance.
@Canucker
Are you high or just incredibly stupid?
@paul34 I am originally from the region (Lebanon), and I've been around (have lived in the UAE and Saudi Arabia)... while not nearly as bad as Saudi (at least in my opinion), the openness you speak of is only skin deep, and only applies as long as its profitable to them. One of the simplest examples of this are communications, where both wireless companies are pretty much owned by the government, and where such services as Skype (which is a competitor to traditional communications media) are completely blocked off (both the site and the service). I know that example is true because I used to be able to use Skype to communicate with my parents there. Did I mention that they censor the Internet as well.
And in case you're wondering, Lebanon does non of the above (at least not yet I believe... and hopefully never).
@brokensticks My cousins live in Saudi... The only way we communicate since the last 2 years is skype... I am not sure what u are referring to...
@brokensticks
Oh boy, here we go again with another Lebanese speaker demeaning other countries and praising his. Listen man, the UAE is one of the greatest places to live in throughout the whole world, especially when it comes to technology. Etisalat and du don't block skype for the sake of blocking it, they might go bankrupt in a day if they let such services open.
The UAE is a small country compared to USA, and the UAE is much more organized than the damaged systems of Lebanon and its ever dropping standards of living and ever growing acts of tourism over well living.
The UAE is a tribal country, and that is what makes it safe and comfortable to live in that is if you respect the local people and obey to their respectful rules, and one of these rules is that no pornography or any country insulting websites are allowed. don't like it, leave the country alone.
I was born and raised in Abu Dhabi, and now living in Dubai, and all what I can say is that this country is a great place to live in especially for technology lovers like me, no matter how you skew it and make it seem wrong. I'd rather have porn websites blocked than live in a country that's just a big theater for an act that only tourists enjoy.
Well, despite all hopes of this post not sinking into the abyss being pretty far fetched I will still mention this; Canucker is right. While equality between the sexes in the UAE isn't as monstrously unjust as many other states in the region, it's still not good by any measure.
I know that it's considered offensive by many to point out the shortcomings of other countries, especially when what one is really criticising is that countries culture. What you have to have to realize is that when a shortcoming exists and is measurable, like the labour (see: the people who build those monuments to excess and get shafted for it) and women issues in the UAE, it's a disservice to just brush it off as simple differences in culture. Offensive speech is one thing, but cultures can be offensive too.
If you truly believe that the UAE is one of the best places in the world to live then you're either relatively affluent or you have swallowed the Kool-Aid and tossed on the Reeboks. I'm sure this will all get cast off as the opinions of some uninformed western bigot, but hey... the truth's the truth. The best you have personally experienced perhaps, but not the best.
@rynoon
You sound like a person who wants to talk but not hear, to judge without even seeing.
What kind of stupid measures are you basing your talk on? What kind of idiocy are you throwing when all around me I see happy working women wearing their sexiest outfits from the most expansive shops and enjoying every bit of their lives? I can even argue that men sometimes get in trouble for just winking for a lady, and you say that there is no equality for women.
Equality differs between each country and the other, it is based on culture, religion and many other tiny aspects that can't be "measured" under some commenter on Engadget who thinks that he is the god of knowing all.
A shortcoming for me is a perfection for you, that is how each society is born and run. We don't all run under the stupid "measures" of the USA or UK or China. Measures my ass. This whole labor thing is beyond the understanding of an internet surfer. You have to be here to understand; you can't simply judge the whole country because you watched a video of a guy crying about his money issues. Many do it here and steel money while they are in no problems at all. Anyone can report and video tape an act from a couple of workers then call it a tragedy. Laws have been set and the labor problems you talk about are at least 10 years old, just let this stupid reason go.
If you truly believe that the UAE is not one of the best places in the world to live in then you're either relatively affluent or you have swallowed the Kool-Aid and tossed on the Reeboks. See how stupid I sound.
Grow up man, live where ever you think is best for you, don't judge other cultures just because you have some extra time in hand. Fix your life first and don't tell me that it is perfect. Mind your own business when it comes to culture and traditions.
Don't measure things to your bacon and eggs plate.
@Saad Uh, In the U.S. normally if you week at a lady. Either 1 of 3 things will happen. 1. She'll wink back. 2. She'll run in terror. 3. You'll be up until 3 am Knocking boots.
I donno about you but uh, I'd rather not be jailed for winking at a pretty lady and letting her know shes good looking.
@Digi Wink* not week. My bad.
@Saad
So, in other news, the UAE have banned BBM. Enjoy your desert shithole.
Isn't one of their primary reasons for wanting access to curb the use of cell phones by terrorists?
@TheEnemy
Thats right. I don't think a lot of people in these forums understand how real the threat of terrorism in India is.
@TheEnemy
Yeah, in India, there has been a terrorist attack every year for at least the past 5 years. Granted some were not as big as the train explosion or the hotel bombing, but they are terrorist attacks none the less. I say RIM should give the government access. They're only going to use it for India's security.
@TheEnemy
That is THE reason.
@TheEnemy
Yes, but why target only Blackberries? Any device capable to strong crypto should come under this anti-terrorism law ... and almost every device out there in the market does.
I get a feeling that Blackberry hasn't paid their dues to a certain politician (i.e. a bribe).
Yes it's only because they just want to invade people's privacy. There could never be a legitmate reason like to track millitants or criminals.
@Son Goku
That's not true. Why would the government want access to people's e-mail just for the sake of invading privacy. Terrorism and local crime is a big issue in India, and the fact that RIM does not allow access is a potential security threat for India. The government would not use this access to just read random people's e-mail for fun. There is a legitimate reason for this.
@BharatiJanta
Terrorism and local crime is a big issue in every country. Should we all turn into police states? I'm sure no government has ever abused their power...
@Son Goku
Unless ur a terrorist or knee deep into pornography.... U need not worry about PRIVACY..No one cares about reading ur bbm msg to ur gf whether u enjoyed last nights sex or not ....
This is a bigger issue which India is trying to solve here....not to read ur emails...
@Son Goku
Giving up essential liberties to buy yourself some safety (maybe) will probably result in neither being achieved.
There will always be a person or group of people who will eventually abuse the power they have been granted. Having access to private information is a gold mine for such individuals.
While security maybe a serious issue in India, there are other ways to fight terrorism than snooping around other peoples communications. As for not having anything to hide, well, then they have no reason to watch you either. Nor should one trust others with their information.
@paul34
even US has the right to request from an operator the data that was send from a specific user.
that is called L.I. : lawful interception.
it requires a judge's order.
however, RIM, with it's servers in North America, does not allow a government or their judicial system (whatever that is) to request that. RIM denies it totally.
that is the main reason why these governments request this access.
now, granted some will abuse, and spy without warrant, but not providing any access is not accepted even in western countries.
India just have 60k BB subscribers, it would be easy to shut RIM down.
@memeslayer
Of course not. Back in 2008, there were anywhere between 120K to 400K BB users depending on which report you go by... You can google that.. It has only grown exponentially since then... especially since the 8520 was launched... I guess the point really is how much potential there is still left, given there are 400M subscribers...
@rsramkee BB subscribers are not the same as BB users.
@memeslayer
Agreed. But you can google on BB subscribers as well. You should get this, released in 2008 by the government.
http://www.blackberryinsight.com/2008/05/06/only-114000-blackberry-subscribers-in-india/
wow India, paranoid much?
@keyrol For a long time India was the top terrorist target in the world, surpassed just now by Iraq. Congratulations, Iraq!
@keyrol Yes it is paranoid because India does not have capabilities to breach RIM encryption without getting help from RIM. US is also not allowing to export any encryption technologies they can not breach. US has unlimited access to Western companies to get whatever want. India and China does not have that and so they are paranoid.
Why doesn't the article say why India wants said access? Just so they can read peoples emails? I doubt that.
Oh the irony of South Asian countries riding a high horse on the subject of 'security'.
@koehler83 The UAE is not in South Asia.
@koehler83
Prepare to be downranked into oblivion!
Well here in Iran government don't need BB to give them access, thanks to the nokia-siemens networks deep pocket analyzing systems that they sold to our goverment, you use VPN, proxies, voip,encrypt,whatever they know exactly what went through your connection, they still refuse to publish the specification of the system that they sold.
@warmonk Nope-- India suffers major terrorist attacks every 3 months on average. Look at the shitty law the U.S. passed after just one.
@deedeedee Learn to troll. That was an ineffective, OTT troll.
*facepalms*
@deedeedee
No, I don't agree. And I hope you die in a fire.
@deedeedee
3/10, too obvious. However the poor spelling is a nice touch.
Keep trying chief.
@warmonk
What a third class person you are.
Are we still in the 1900s? People actually have a right to privacy now