Ballmer on iPad: 'they've sold certainly more than I'd like them to have sold'
By Paul Miller 
posted July 29th 2010 6:32PM
posted July 29th 2010 6:32PM
posted July 29th 2010 6:32PM
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@cookiebits I ask you, are you a computer programmer? Have you used the Microsoft development tools? Remember Microsoft is a software company, software isn't always as sexy as hardware. So are you sure Microsoft has had no innovations over the last 10 years? Are you an enterprise user? Do you manage Windows Servers and Services? I ask again are you sure there are no innovations over the lat 10 years from Microsoft? Have you done as XAML or Silverlight work? Do you realize how easy it will be to create a Windows Phone Applications? Perhaps you need to spend some time over at Channel 9 or the Microsoft Research site and see what neat things are going on in and around Microsoft.
I'm just asking but are you sure there has been no innovations from Microsoft over the last 10 years?
@rwalrond Woah, chill out dude. Sure I might not be correct, but I am entitled to my own personal opinion.
But since you took the time to write up such a long comment, I'll be polite and reply to it anyway.
"are you a computer programmer?"
No. Unless if you count Javascript and PHP scripting as programming.
"Have you used the Microsoft development tools"
No. A text editor usually does me fine.
"Remember Microsoft is a software company, software isn't always as sexy as hardware."
Microsoft does make some pretty sexy hardware though ;)
"So are you sure Microsoft has had no innovations over the last 10 years?"
Hang on. Firstly, I was talking about Windows as a consumer, not Microsoft in general.
Secondly, when I use Windows 7, I don't see any difference compared when I was using Windows XP almost a decade ago (other than the interfaces).
"Have you done as XAML or Silverlight work?"
I'd prefer to stick to XHTML/HTML5 thanks.
"Do you realize how easy it will be to create a Windows Phone Applications?"
No. Developing native apps isn't my thing.
"Perhaps you need to spend some time over at Channel 9 or the Microsoft Research site and see what neat things are going on in and around Microsoft."
Perhaps I should ;)
"I'm just asking but are you sure there has been no innovations from Microsoft over the last 10 years?"
Why do you keep thinking I'm talking about Microsoft? I think Microsoft are one of the bigger innovators in the computing industry.
I'm just worried that Microsoft doesn't realise that a full on desktop OS doesn't scale down too well to an "underpowered" device. Maybe they should scale up Windows 7 mobile :)
@cookiebits
"Are you calling me cheap because I bought a netbook?"
No you're friggin' Donald Trump cuz you bought a 200 dollar laptop!!
I like the iPad, but I really LOVE the HP touchsmarts. Wish I could hold it and cuddle with it instead of standing at a countertop.
@deedeedee Zune is a player that can handle subscription music.
I'm developing several touch based applications for Windows 7 (these are to be used in kiosk point of sale displays). As you can imagine, I've played with Win7 on a touch screen quite a bit, and IMO it would make a very capable tablet OS. I don't really see what the problem is or why these things are taking so long to be released. Win 7 runs beautifully on an Atom based netbook...faster than XP actually. The Win7 tablets will have the same specs as these netbooks, just without a keyboard. I would buy an N330 based tablet with 2GB RAM in an instant over the iPad.
This is sad. Netbooks are not iPads. It made sense for consumers to purchase Netbooks running Windows for compatibility reasons with other PC's (Microsoft Office, already purchased software etc). I certainly recommended Windows netbooks over Linux netbooks early on for this very reason.
People are not buying iPads and saying OMG, what I really need instead is a slower, clunkier more bloated Windows tablet PC with far less battery power running the same antivirus software like my PC. And requiring the same maintenance like my PC just so I can surf the web and read a book in bed. Ballmer is seriously mistaken if he thinks this will be like the netbook market.
The iPad is a nice device, but certainly not magical. It is fun to use, but the built-in limitations are frustrating at times, particularly needing iTunes for many tasks is inexcusable in 2010.
Many of the iPads have been sold to non-tech consumers who see Apple's extensive, very effective mainstream advertising. On the way home from downtown tonight, passed at least six illuminated stand-alone, or bus stop kiosks advertising the iPad. Probably saw at least four network TV ads for the iPad this week, and this is a slow week for the TV iPad ads. The non-tech consumer sees the iPad performing tasks in the commercials that they do not see any other tablet performing since they probably have not seen a mainstream media ad for a competing product. I do not recall seeing any mainstream ads for competing tablets or convertibles. I definitely do not see network TV ads, or illuminated kiosks ads in the downtown area for any other convertible / tablet. Considering the lack of mainstream advertising, it is a wonder the other tablets sold as well as they do.
Not claiming the massive sales are due solely to the massive mainstream advertising. Certainly the ads have resulted in many sales since Apple would not be spending the $ if the ads were not significantly increasing the sales.
@jimtravis
I just say today on the Ellan show that she were giving away iPads to a bunch of screaming audience members. Apple is a master at this marketing with product placements, and posters billboards everywhere. But there's absolutely no excuse for other manufacturers who's done nothing revolutionary with Tablets since 2001. Going from Pen Computing, to Tablet PCs, to Slates, to UMPCs, to convertible laptops and now back to Slates/Tablet PCs running full Windows 7. Nothing really inspiring and innovative there really. The Currier would have been innovative if only it was real.
@jimtravis What "other" tablets?
@dave95 Depends on what you want to accomplish with the device whether the iPad, or traditional tablet is best. They both have their uses, and advantages. I am a gadget geek so I own way too many devices including an iPad. I use the iPad for watching videos, email, some apps, and brief web use. I own / have owned XP, Vista, and Windows 7 tablets, and enjoy using them all when I need the power of a full desktop OS / application, want to watch a video that would require reconverting in order for the iPad to use, want to view Flash based sites, or will be creating substantial content.
The first thing I do with any Windows tablet is increase the size of all UI elements to a finger friendly size for my relatively big fingers using the built-in Windows utility. The close box, menu items, scroll bars, task bar, etc. are large enough to be be very finger friendly after using the utility. Most 3rd party apps have finger friendly menus, scroll bars etc. also after using the WYSIWYG built-in utility.
Some of the XP, Vista, and 7 tablets were convertibles. Although 80% of the time, I used them as a laptop, they were very finger friendly when in convertible mode. I like having the power of a desktop OS, using my favorite desktop class apps, a user accessible file system, and transferring videos / other files via WiFi, Bluetooth or NAS.
Another advantage of the wide scroll bar is using standard scroll bar navigation for webpages. For me, all the finger scrolling with the iPad and other devices gets old quickly particularly for the longer webpages. Lightly touch the wide scroll bar under / above the scroll thumb, and the screen advances one page down / up which is easier, and more efficient (for me, you may think differently) than all the finger scrolling required with devices without scroll bars. I know scroll bars are out of vogue now, but they can be useful for navigation particularly if you widen them for finger friendly touch. I also increase the UI elements on my regular laptops / desktops since the larger items are easier to select with the mouse or trackpad as well.
Not knocking the iPad, it is great for content consumption, has some excellent apps, and has absolutely fantastic battery life based on my experience. However, the walled garden, closed file system, and lifeline to iTunes gets frustrating several times daily during my use when I want to do something as easy as transferring a file from a NAS, and have the appropriate app be able to use it. Yes, I have a 3rd party app that can log on to the NAS, and transfer the file, but the appropriate app on the iPad cannot use it due to the restrictive file system. I am not talking about music or video, but data files. Ditto, the closed file system gets in the way when you want to send updated files to a NAS from the iPad. Since I have so many devices, my main storage points are NAS for home, and my websites for on the road.
Hopefully, MS, and Google will work with the vendors to ensure the Win 7 / Android tablets have adequate processing power, and then market them in the mainstream media which Apple has done very successfully since the iPod. It is nice to have choice, and competition is good for us users.
@appsman Talking about all the tablets / convertibles that have been made using Windows since XP. I do not recall seeing an ad for any of them in the mainstream media over the years, only tech sites which the non-tech consumer would not see.
@jimtravis
That's why after 10+ years of repeating the same formula Windows tablets have never taken off. No one cares to do so much configuration and prep just to use a tablet. Besides, treating and thinking about tablets like they are desktop PCs doesn't work either. The OS needs to be rebuilt from the ground up with a touch framework and give it a purpose, not attempt to be a jack of all trades.
Arguing for keeping the status quo is only asking for more of the same.
@jimtravis And the billboards explain the extremely high customer satisfaction ratings for iPad how exactly?
Get over it - the ads work because the product delivers as advertised.
@HighestRanked1 I respect your opinion, but disagree. For me, the Windows interface on a tablet works fine duplicating my desktop with bigger UI elements. I also use Android tablets, and they have their strengths as well. I am all for trying new interfaces and platforms, and favor technical advances. However, for my use (important word is my, yours maybe different), the iPad is not that leap forward that would cause me to abandon Windows based tablets. It may happen some day, or my needs may change, but the iPad, albeit as fun to use as it is, is not that device for me. I am not anti-Apple, I have used Apple computers since the Apple II+, and their mobile devices since the first Newton. The iPad is nice, but as indicated in original post, too limited at times for me to abandon Windows based tablets.
@SExpress Don't know where your comment is coming from. I did not say Apple's advertising was bad, or the iPad was bad (although it is limited for my needs). The iPad is fun to use, and as long as you can live with its Apple imposed (not technical) limitations, most users will be very satisfied with their purchase.
Apple's marketing is brilliant. Apple ran very effective mainstream advertising campaigns for the iPod, the iPhone, and now the iPad. Where the billboards, and other advertisements come into play is brand awareness for Apple in general, and the iPad specifically with the non-tech consumer who does not read tech blogs. After seeing the iPad billboards hundreds of times (every day while waiting for the bus), and the iPad network TV ads dozens of times, the only tablet like device they are aware of is the iPad. When they decide to add a "portable" device with a bigger screen than their smartphone, they purchase the only tablet device they are aware of, and have seen doing "cool" things in the commercials, the iPad. If they did not see all those billboards etc, they would not be aware such a device is available. In order for them purchase it, and give high ratings to it, they have to be aware it exists from mainstream advertising since they do not read tech blogs. Again, brilliant marketing by Apple which the competition has to do in order to have a shot at competing. The Android smartphones that are now advertised on mainstream network TV are selling quite well.
Apple would not be spending the money on advertising if it did not increase sales, and pay for itself with a positive impact on the bottom line. The iPod, iPhone, and iPad advertising campaigns are very effective, kudos to the advertising firm(s) that develops them for Apple.
@jimtravis - there AND NO tablets by any other large firm... they don't exist even if consumers wanted to buy them.. the only tablets out there are by tiny startups...
convertibles have been out for 10 years.. no one wants them.. because their too expensive, people like to type as writing with a stylus is too slow, error prone etc.. intel x86 means too power hungry with heat dissipation problems and bad battery life.. windows on intel is just stupid!
if it was so easy to do what apple did with the iPad do you not think DELL, HP, Toshiba etc would have competing products out right now?
and right now Android doesn't have the additions to it like apple added to iOS for iPad (floating panels, split panes etc) that allow iPad to take advantage of the lager screen and improve experience over iOS for iPod/iPhone... hardware wise, yes an iPad is an overgrown iPod Touch but that's not what's important.. iOS for iPad provides a much improved/more efficient experience over IOS for iPhone/iPod Touch because of tweak to the GUI because of things that make sense on the larger screen of the iPad.. this is not true of Android tablets right now.. android tablets ARE really just over grown phones that don't make calls
@doctorSpoc Respect your opinion, don't agree. With the convertible, you have stylus, touch and keyboard entry available. Have owned convertibles made by largest Computer companies in the world, so somebody wants them. Maybe if they advertised them mainstream, they would sell more.
Concerning costs, my last two convertibles each cost less than my 64gb iPad, yet do a lot more. Also disagree about win / intel, works fine for me.
The enhancements to the iPad UI are ok, but not earth shattering. Sometimes, I find them more of a distraction than an asset. I repect that you obviously have a different opinion.
@jimtravis
"The iPad is a nice device, but certainly not magical."
Aw... poor baby.. you just found out Santa doesn't really come to your house on Dec 24th?
@Wesscoast No, did not expect it to be magical, and it wasn't. Just reacting to all the hyperbole in the keynotes, iPad commercials, and some comments. Unfortunately, all of Santa's gifts end up on my Visa card for some reason. ;)
@dmccall
So can iPods/iPhones/iPads for the record...
I don't think Microsoft has the guts to LEAVE OUT the features that need to dropped to make a successful tablet. They'll listen to EVERYBODY and it'll end up a slow bloated swiss-army-knife like Windows and no one will buy it. The best shot at a better iPad is most likely Android or maybe Chrome. Maybe Windows Mobile has a chance but that doesn't seem to be what Balmer is talking about for tablets.
"they've sold certainly more than I'd like them to have sold."
...because I can't stand to hear about any other company making any money at all. This whole money thing, after all, is mine. And it really cheeses me off to see THEM making money with something that we, never in a million years, would have had the clarity, grace and creativity to come up with.
MS should use their xbox 360 firmware on a tablet. I'm sure it would make for a great interface, with integrated xbox live account, zine marketplace, and such.
All i want is a Vaio P with an optimized linux distro...
Maybe that would prick Steve Balmer for killing off the Amazing Courier!!!
@praveen
The Courier never existed. It was a render. 100% fictional. Nothing "amazing" about that.
Is this just about multitouch?
I have been using at work Windows XP pads for near on 3 years and windows CE 6 pads for the same period.
Okay they haven't got a consumer facing product of any real clout, sure it will come.
Plus 3 millions sales is okay but it isn't gonna destroy MS by a long shot.
@redtalon
"Plus 3 millions sales is okay but it isn't gonna destroy MS by a long shot"
..... That's a million units in the first 30 days on the market, for a totally new form factor, that most people aren't even sure they want or need.
You're incredibly short sighted if you don't think, another 10-20Million $500-1000 iOS devices doesn't scare Microsoft.
Wooh! Can't wait to install a kickass anti-virus program on my Win7 tablet. Yay.
I'm actually looking forward to MS foray into this! Apple doesn't need to worry much about it, but Google (Android) does. Not that what MS comes out with is going to be better than Android, that is very doubtful. No, the reason they need to worry is, like the PC market, the OS & the hardware are separate companies, unlike Apple. So now, when MS comes out with WP7, or their Windows 7 as iOS & Android killer, they are going to want their software on hardware made by the same companies that are now running Android. Sure, these companies in theory could offer both OSes on their devices. But on a business level, do you think they will? Having one OS is much more manageable for Dell, HP, HTC, Motorola or whomever, and is a lower operational cost. Using the PC as an example, there isn't too many manufacturers that offer a choice of OS on it. You can put whatever OS on it when you get it home, but MS has already been paid for Windows. I see the same happening to phones & mobile devices. Apple isn't MS's true competition now - Android is. That is who will be squarely in their sights. Sure, Android is free, but MS already has relationships with many of these manufacturers, and will be able to woo them with offers they can't refuse. I think we will see the true underhanded, monopolistic MS from the 90's rise up again & flex it's might; The 'Evil Empire' vs the 'Don't Be Evil' company. This isn't Hollywood, evil will win. Playing fair is not MS's forté.
Microsoft's main product is an OS, not hardware. Google's main thing is data, not an OS or hardware. They bought Android in an attempt to collect more data, nothing more. It is safe to say MS will be able to put a lot of marketing might behind the OS, where as Google may not be as likely too. So MS, although not as full of an offering of the the Android option, and riddled with bugs & issues could prevail due to marketing & corporate politics. Then, on the hardware side, each manufacturer in a saturated market will have to figure out ways to cut corners & remain profitable (very much like the PC market) and due to that, come out with cheaper (build quality as well as price) handsets & slates, to compete with other manufacturers - which in turn will yield more issues with end users when insatiable problems arise, as they do with cheaply built products - linking the low quality presumption with the MS OS.
And on the other side of the fence, you will have Apple - still with total control of both ends (hardware & software) still making quality products, and have a very satisfied user base. If MS wasn't able to kill the Mac OS in the 90's when Apple was barely surviving, I don't think they will kill the iOS now that Apple is the force it is. You will still hear the anti-Apple crowd saying the the products are overpriced, and unfounded jabs at the OS or whatever, but they never really see the big picture, and why Apple remains successful (hint: it is not because of fanboys)
All the while the Apple customers are happy & satisfied with their choice, and will continue to buy Apple products due to it.
But then again, what the hell do I know!
@Joao Cagao
Oops - looks like spell check changed inevitable to 'insatiable!'
I have both a net book and an ipad:
1. My Net book is a Sony Vaio X Series - 2GB RAM, 2GHz Atom, 64GB SSD, Verizon 3G and GPS. Running Windows 7 Professional
2. My iPad is the 64 GB 3G Model with GPS. Running iOS 3.2
Both are about the same in terms of size and weight. around 1.5lb for both and around 1/2 inch thickness for both. The screen on the Vaio is 11 inch and the iPad is around 10 inches.
I like both devices. I have the Vaio since Jan of this year and the iPad since a month or so. Initially when the iPad was announced I wasn't overly impressed. However, now that I have started using it, what stands out is the usability. The thought put into how it works, the quality of apps and the speed of the device really puts the Vaio to shame although the Vaio is a more capable machine in terms of what it can do and the features it has.
Neither the Vaio X or iPad can replace a 'real' desktop or Notebook for general productivity work like creating Presentations and working on complex spreadsheets etc not because it isn't possible but these are done FAR better on a desktop. But for emailing and browsing and as a portable media device around the house or when travelling etc the iPad is just the perfect device (in my opinion). The ipad can synch wirelessly with ALL my computers and hence uploading files etc are a breeze.
The net of all this is that my Vaio X is gathering dust while I take the ipad everywhere. There hasn't been one instance when I have noticed the lack or Flash or wished the ipad supported flash. Not once. And I initially thought it would be a big deal.
The iPad easily goes 2 days between charges after heavy use.
The data plan on my ipad costs $25 for 2GB and the Vaio plan on Verizon is $40 for 200MB! That is another HUGE difference for me.
The iPad is a really thought out product. It isn't that you can buy a netbook for 1/2 the price. It's about the usability. When I bought the Vaio X it was after careful thought and I felt I was buying absolutely the best netbook on the market - it still has by far the best specs on the market by a long shot and it still falls short of the iPad.
Just my experience.
I have not bought an ipad yet because overpriced, and due to luck of usb support I have to go on an ipad tariff for mobile internet which is well more expensive than normal laptop mobile internet, why pay more or go on special ipad tariff when you can but a dongle for £10 and for every £10 you get 10 gb but if you go on ipad tariff than you pay £20 for 2 gb internet. if ipad did support an usb than you could use any mobile usb modem. SO PLEASE HURRY UP I AM WAITING FOR YOU, YOU SLOW MOVING VEHICLES.
Oh cry me a river Ballmer. Looking back, maybe it was a completely moronic decision to have canceled that Courier project ..... DUH.
It's amazing how MS can release a few renderings of a virtual product, and the MS fanboys are so desperate for Redmond tablet love, that they believe is was a real project! LMAO!
Get real, it was purely a marketing spoiler during the iPad launch.
Think about it, could the company that dominated the market with the groundbreaking KIN, ever produce something like the mythical Courier?
Windows 7 tablets will crush the iPad just like the Zune crushed the iPod/iPhone. Oh wait...
@Guspaz
Amen
Steve Ballmer worked for Proctor & Gamble before Microsoft. He is just a soap salesman with no clue about technology. So, as others have pointed out, he makes a lot of random, unconnected, insulting and vague statements regarding their competition.
I will say that I respect his decision to hock everything he had to buy Microsoft stock early on, thereby becoming extremely wealthy. Thereby demonstrating that you don't have to have a clue about technology to become rich from it.
The final destination of PC is a netbook. A netbook is cheap and most mobile PC. It is the ultimate in what PC architecture can achieve in price and mobility. Its limiting factor in terms of price is Intel architecture, keyboard and a mouse (trackpad). The price: $300. The price of a netbook's operating system: $10. Microsoft did this to participate in the mega explosion in computing for masses and at the same time limit proliferation of Linux.
The final destination of a tablet is IndiaPad. An IndiaPad is cheap and most mobile tablet. It is ultimate in what tablet architecture can achieve in price and mobility. The price: $35. The price of an IndiaPad's operating system should be: $1.
IBecause of Intel architecure limitations OLPC never broke $200. Intel and Microsoft (nobody is owning this up) totally screwed up netbook market by artificially crippling netbooks.
IndiaPad is very, very, very real. Look for its clones in other countries too. At present IndiaPad runs Linux. Microsoft can offer WinCE or WP7 for $1 and participate in the mega explosion in computing for masses and at the same time limit proliferation of Linux.
I think they should concentrate on making a better tablet laptop like the HP 2740p or Lenovo x201t. Slim everything down and add dedicated graphics.