F-em. If they want to live in 1990 with POP, let 'em. There is no excuse for a western carrier to compromise it's ethics to appease those bastards. (Bastards referring to those governments, not the people of those countries)
@Smurf How can you say that without properly assessing the other side's point of view? The reason they are doing this is because in countries like the UAE blackberries are becoming very popular among general audiences, and not just business men/women. Blackberries are meant for that and they way they are being used now over there are just ridiculous, everyone just buys a Blackberry because of the Blackberry messenger and use that. In the beginning it was fine, but now after they added the feature that lets you send a message to a bunch of people, lots of rumors have been spread which are completely whack such as lies about people dying or new laws being made. This much more serious than it looks in my post, and I'm all for this.
@Jitaroo Oh no! You mean regular people use blackbaries for their PRIVATE PURPOSES?! That's a crime! Oh it has social elements built into it? Holy crap, we need to burn them all! Oh, the wonders of the Islamic revolution.
Do you even realize why they're doing this? The UAE is one of the few countries that hasn't experienced the terrorism of other middle eastern countries. Can't blame 'em for wanting to keep it that way.
Can't believe you're so blindsighted to claim that a Western company doesn't have to oblige to other country's requests. RIM does sell in that market, so they should be required to follow the laws regulated in the country.
@max3000 Well, I'm a Muslim. And I can say this banning is because they can't control which sites you can browse by the BB service. For us browsing porn sites or so is haram, and for the government to not control the service and ban this site is also haram, so that's why UAE is banning the service, but they will allow for a service allowing the BB users to reach the internet but in a controlled way.
@Aaquibn I see, so that is the price one has to pay to stay "safe", no thanks, I think that there are many other ways to protect a country from terrorists than to crack down on peoples liberty.
RIM is a big company and should try to throw their weight around and help their customers have more free access to information. I think that if a government doesn't want you to have access to something as simple as a blackberry, they are up to no good.
@Smurf Jackass! BB is being misused by terror groups! If you don't have enough information don't talk bullshit. I am from India and we are facing the same issue! This has become a big problem for us and our government had almost banned BB. But 1-2 days back RIM assured India that it will work towards giving Indian govt access to the encrypted mails. When the lives of hundreds are at stake, I don't give two hoots to a company. Neither do governments. Remember USA war since 2001?
Dude but one terrorist is not very likely to E-mail to another terrorist " Hey Morehammad, let's bomb the place like we agreed" he will probably just say "we are still on" or something of the sort. That will not help government prevent terror.
Keep signing away any liberties you have in the futile search for absolute "security."
The US has done much of the same, unfortunately, but we haven't gotten that bad (yet). It's one of the reasons I'm glad I live here, and that my parents moved here from India. Much better.
@Sea Urchin Dude, this HAPPENED! This also happened in Mumbai attacks (a few months before the attack). That was when the govt brought up this issue with BB. I dislike whenever freedom of citizens are compromised but I can see the bigger picture here. I will happily let go of my privacy to stay secured.
@o7o one thing I never understood about Muslims, especially countries where the government is based on it, why they feel the need to be parents for all the followers? I mean isn't there such a thing as free will like other religions?
Also I doubt any of the royal families will get hit with this ban due to the fact that they do so much business with the west that they always want to stay in contact.
They are doing to maintain control over their population, silence free expression and any dissent. There is no terrorism in the UAE because they have lots of money and can buy their way out of it. RIM should not compromise it's ethics to cater to theocratic, backwards governments. In fact Canada should mount a huge PR campaign/boycott against these countries. (like the Danish cartoons, but in favor or freedom of speech and without all of the violence and dogma) If you don't stand up for freedom of speech, it's lost forever. Tyrants don't just had those rights back.
@Smurf Using this personal information for the protection of national security is the only acceptable use of this information. It does not sound like this information is being requested for a separate government branch solely tasked with national security. These governments must clearly define who will have access to the information before any private information is released. Their application of this intelligence must be made available for critique.
The NSA reads all communication and they do not persecute criminals who do not aim for the widespread killing of Americans and our allies, like drug dealers, embezzlers, etc. If the term 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' applies to anything in the world, it applies to the NSA. The NSA is the enemy of no one but the worst people of the world.
Comparing the US's use of this information to Arab governments use of private information is disgusting. Taking every secret from ever citizen, rather it includes porn, adultery, or any other, what 'they' would consider, crime against society numbs the senses. Governments have no right to make their citizens live in fear for their lives (and limbs) for something so human. Over the next generation, exposure to the internet, the plight of totalitarian regimes, will cause the Arab world (it's civilians) to call for personal liberty. That can't happen soon enough. The men who horde all of their countries' wealth, of which no more extreme example is available than the Middle East, must be brought to justice by the hands of the people they have been exploited for so long.
@o7o Well, that's understandable. But see - I live in Israel and we sell a thing called a 'Kosher Phone'. Simply put - it's a device just like any other but it blocks 'unwanted' content for religious people. If it was true, they'd offer the same service and leave others alone.
dude the Indian govt just wants BB to provide them a means to access private emails or intercept communication in case of a potential terror attack. Its not to spy on its people.
But the UAE and Saudis want this to spy on their people which is wrong.
@o7o It's the year 2010. Not the dark ages. Justifying this is rediculous. I'm soo glad that america has separated religion and state government. Next they will be stoning people for looking at porn.
@AMaench77 Well, there is sure a free will for individuals, but we Muslims prioritize the society over the individual, so you got a free will as long as you don't harm the society and your actions don't interfere with the religious rules, or what we call Shari'a.
...and the governments have sworn their sincere intentions to you? Bottom line is that they want it. Whether they want it to spy, intercept or play ping pong with is their prerogative. All RIM can do is either comply or show them the finger. Don't be presumptuous enough to advocate claims of one government over the other. They're all lying and scheming bastards who do as they please as and when it is convenient for them. It makes you look like an idiot.
@Aaquibn Do you even realize why they're doing this? The UAE is one of the few countries that hasn't experienced the terrorism of other middle eastern countries. Can't blame 'em for wanting to keep it that way.
Can't believe you're so blindsighted to claim that a Western company doesn't have to oblige to other country's requests. RIM does sell in that market, so they should be required to follow the laws regulated in the country. ______________________________________________________
Hey dumb dumb
UAE changed their laws cause they didn't like the fact that their people were talking about sex with their mobile devices. With BB being secure UAE couldn't spy on their own people.
You wouldnt be saying this if u knew the amount of terrorist attacks India has to face every year becoz of the proxy war Pakistan is waging in Kashmir. And u would be stupid if u think the US or the Canadian govts dont have the means to access the BBN. Even the Russians made BB setup local servers in Russia.
@krishansy I don't agree! but this sort of argument will never have any ending.
So tomorrow, you give the keys blackberry's data so that Indian govt. or UAE or republic democratic righteousness can access emails. What next? Ban SSL, unless every key used by SSL is provided ? Where do you think all this will end? And how hard is it for someone within govt to leak out a corporate secret? knowing very well how corrupt most of governments are!
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
F-em. If they want to live in 1990 with POP, let 'em. There is no excuse for a western carrier to compromise it's ethics to appease those bastards. (Bastards referring to those governments, not the people of those countries)
@Smurf How can you say that without properly assessing the other side's point of view? The reason they are doing this is because in countries like the UAE blackberries are becoming very popular among general audiences, and not just business men/women. Blackberries are meant for that and they way they are being used now over there are just ridiculous, everyone just buys a Blackberry because of the Blackberry messenger and use that. In the beginning it was fine, but now after they added the feature that lets you send a message to a bunch of people, lots of rumors have been spread which are completely whack such as lies about people dying or new laws being made. This much more serious than it looks in my post, and I'm all for this.
@Jitaroo Thank God rumours and gossip aren't spread in any other countries by using BBM, or email, or Twitter, or Facebook, or Perez Hilton...
@Jitaroo Oh no! You mean regular people use blackbaries for their PRIVATE PURPOSES?! That's a crime! Oh it has social elements built into it? Holy crap, we need to burn them all!
Oh, the wonders of the Islamic revolution.
Seriously, eff you.
@Smurf
Do you even realize why they're doing this? The UAE is one of the few countries that hasn't experienced the terrorism of other middle eastern countries. Can't blame 'em for wanting to keep it that way.
Can't believe you're so blindsighted to claim that a Western company doesn't have to oblige to other country's requests. RIM does sell in that market, so they should be required to follow the laws regulated in the country.
@Jitaroo "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
@Jitaroo So... why shouldn't people be able to spread rumors? Oh yeah I forgot their government is a dictatorship draped in religion.
@max3000 Well, I'm a Muslim. And I can say this banning is because they can't control which sites you can browse by the BB service. For us browsing porn sites or so is haram, and for the government to not control the service and ban this site is also haram, so that's why UAE is banning the service, but they will allow for a service allowing the BB users to reach the internet but in a controlled way.
@Aaquibn I see, so that is the price one has to pay to stay "safe", no thanks, I think that there are many other ways to protect a country from terrorists than to crack down on peoples liberty.
RIM is a big company and should try to throw their weight around and help their customers have more free access to information. I think that if a government doesn't want you to have access to something as simple as a blackberry, they are up to no good.
@Smurf
Jackass! BB is being misused by terror groups! If you don't have enough information don't talk bullshit. I am from India and we are facing the same issue! This has become a big problem for us and our government had almost banned BB. But 1-2 days back RIM assured India that it will work towards giving Indian govt access to the encrypted mails. When the lives of hundreds are at stake, I don't give two hoots to a company. Neither do governments. Remember USA war since 2001?
@krishansy
Dude but one terrorist is not very likely to E-mail to another terrorist " Hey Morehammad, let's bomb the place like we agreed" he will probably just say "we are still on" or something of the sort. That will not help government prevent terror.
@krishansy
Keep signing away any liberties you have in the futile search for absolute "security."
The US has done much of the same, unfortunately, but we haven't gotten that bad (yet). It's one of the reasons I'm glad I live here, and that my parents moved here from India. Much better.
@Sea Urchin
Dude, this HAPPENED! This also happened in Mumbai attacks (a few months before the attack). That was when the govt brought up this issue with BB. I dislike whenever freedom of citizens are compromised but I can see the bigger picture here. I will happily let go of my privacy to stay secured.
@o7o one thing I never understood about Muslims, especially countries where the government is based on it, why they feel the need to be parents for all the followers? I mean isn't there such a thing as free will like other religions?
Also I doubt any of the royal families will get hit with this ban due to the fact that they do so much business with the west that they always want to stay in contact.
@Aaquibn
They are doing to maintain control over their population, silence free expression and any dissent. There is no terrorism in the UAE because they have lots of money and can buy their way out of it. RIM should not compromise it's ethics to cater to theocratic, backwards governments. In fact Canada should mount a huge PR campaign/boycott against these countries. (like the Danish cartoons, but in favor or freedom of speech and without all of the violence and dogma) If you don't stand up for freedom of speech, it's lost forever. Tyrants don't just had those rights back.
@Smurf Using this personal information for the protection of national security is the only acceptable use of this information. It does not sound like this information is being requested for a separate government branch solely tasked with national security. These governments must clearly define who will have access to the information before any private information is released. Their application of this intelligence must be made available for critique.
The NSA reads all communication and they do not persecute criminals who do not aim for the widespread killing of Americans and our allies, like drug dealers, embezzlers, etc. If the term 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' applies to anything in the world, it applies to the NSA. The NSA is the enemy of no one but the worst people of the world.
Comparing the US's use of this information to Arab governments use of private information is disgusting. Taking every secret from ever citizen, rather it includes porn, adultery, or any other, what 'they' would consider, crime against society numbs the senses. Governments have no right to make their citizens live in fear for their lives (and limbs) for something so human. Over the next generation, exposure to the internet, the plight of totalitarian regimes, will cause the Arab world (it's civilians) to call for personal liberty. That can't happen soon enough. The men who horde all of their countries' wealth, of which no more extreme example is available than the Middle East, must be brought to justice by the hands of the people they have been exploited for so long.
@o7o Well, that's understandable. But see - I live in Israel and we sell a thing called a 'Kosher Phone'. Simply put - it's a device just like any other but it blocks 'unwanted' content for religious people.
If it was true, they'd offer the same service and leave others alone.
@krishansy
Then you are a coward, see Ben Franklin quote above.
@krishansy
dude the Indian govt just wants BB to provide them a means to access private emails or intercept communication in case of a potential terror attack. Its not to spy on its people.
But the UAE and Saudis want this to spy on their people which is wrong.
@all
Quite amusing reading all of these conspiracy theories.
How can point a finger at other countries when the US has aliens locked up in Area 51?
@o7o It's the year 2010. Not the dark ages. Justifying this is rediculous. I'm soo glad that america has separated religion and state government. Next they will be stoning people for looking at porn.
@AMaench77 Well, there is sure a free will for individuals, but we Muslims prioritize the society over the individual, so you got a free will as long as you don't harm the society and your actions don't interfere with the religious rules, or what we call Shari'a.
@max3000 Well, I don't live in UAE so I can't suggest them to do so :/
@Dev one Well, here at Egypt, we have separate country and religion governments. Can't tell about UAE though :S
@Kenny Fn Powers No Comment!!
@ssguy
...and the governments have sworn their sincere intentions to you? Bottom line is that they want it. Whether they want it to spy, intercept or play ping pong with is their prerogative. All RIM can do is either comply or show them the finger.
Don't be presumptuous enough to advocate claims of one government over the other. They're all lying and scheming bastards who do as they please as and when it is convenient for them.
It makes you look like an idiot.
@Aaquibn
Do you even realize why they're doing this? The UAE is one of the few countries that hasn't experienced the terrorism of other middle eastern countries. Can't blame 'em for wanting to keep it that way.
Can't believe you're so blindsighted to claim that a Western company doesn't have to oblige to other country's requests. RIM does sell in that market, so they should be required to follow the laws regulated in the country.
______________________________________________________
Hey dumb dumb
UAE changed their laws cause they didn't like the fact that their people were talking about sex with their mobile devices. With BB being secure UAE couldn't spy on their own people.
@YB
You wouldnt be saying this if u knew the amount of terrorist attacks India has to face every year becoz of the proxy war Pakistan is waging in Kashmir. And u would be stupid if u think the US or the Canadian govts dont have the means to access the BBN. Even the Russians made BB setup local servers in Russia.
@krishansy I don't agree! but this sort of argument will never have any ending.
So tomorrow, you give the keys blackberry's data so that Indian govt. or UAE or republic democratic righteousness can access emails. What next? Ban SSL, unless every key used by SSL is provided ?
Where do you think all this will end?
And how hard is it for someone within govt to leak out a corporate secret? knowing very well how corrupt most of governments are!