AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile team up to transform your smartphone into a credit card
By Vlad Savov 
posted August 2nd 2010 3:41AM
posted August 2nd 2010 3:41AM
posted August 2nd 2010 3:41AM
A look back on popular stories from today in a specific year.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
So with this really "cool " feature I won't loose all that time it takes to reach for my wallet.
This will change the evolution of mankind (pc correction peoplekind) .
some phones well drop costs, if grabbed in a certain way while making payment. not to mention the company will replay " your paying the wrong way"
i pay.
This is one step closer to the Mark of the Beast, as revealed in Revelation where in the future you won't be able to buy or sell anything unless you have a mark in your forehead or hand. The banks are already weaning us away from cash in our society with direct deposit and rewards for using credit cards. They've already wiped out gold and silver as a direct means of payment, through the Federal Reserve System and especially since 1971, when our money truly became a fiat system. Now all our money is practically electronic, and TRACKABLE, so if you piss off the govt. in any way or you protest the tracking they can turn off your money electronically from some remote location. Think about it. We don't have any anonymous, free exchanges anymore, which is what money should be.
@dcornibe
please visit my tinfoil hat site on ebay
@dcornibe
People have been claiming the "mark of the beast" for decades now with whatever newfangled technology comes out. Please, give it a rest.
And don't pull the Federal Reserve into this. By doing so, you do a massive disservice to the legitimate movement to End the Fed.
@dcornibe Hahaha. Thanks for making me laugh this morning.
Having travel to Asia and parts of Europe where this is working, it could work here too.
My impressions from where I have seen it, are as follows:
a) Great, if I can turn it on/off as i need it. For example, maybe while on vacation or taking a day trip to a metro area. better, the ability to disable it altogether on a specific phone.
b) Great if I determine which merchants this actually works at. For example, in Germany many Grocery stores and College campus book stores only allow it if you authorize it before hand so now it can only work where you want it to.
c) If a pin is required to authorize the transaction
d) f and u if I will pay a single micro penny extra for this option and f the merchants who do to. They are already getting a cut a transactoin and then they charge loan shark rates on interest, credit card companies should not get anything extra for this because ultimately the benefit is 100% on them.
e) This system uses a seperate chip, hopefully the communicatoins protocol and API to the OS is not so easly cracked and WEP, WPA and GSM
@Zo
This is America. Companies will always find ways to nickel and dime their customers. But not only that, there are much less consumer protection and privacy laws here in the US. There is a reason why stuff like identity theft is SOOO much more common in the US versus places like Europe.... its because these companies are allowed to gather much more data on their customers and keep that data much less secure... and even when that data does get stolen there are no punishments for the companies for keeping that data not properly protected.
@Zo
On all counts, pretty much right.
Not only is a pin required, not account data is actually on the phone itself. Its a lookup ID. No data is sent over the air for these transactions either, and yes, this is an NFC chip, not RFID or WiFI or BT. It;s validated and encrypted first, and your phone displays a pin to enter on the purchasing device after you authenticate yourself to the phone app, and this only works if the phone can both see a tower, and iof the purchasing device is properly configured.
I do not believe merchants can be individually enabled/disabled, it should work anywhere like a basic credit card. Yes, merchants pay a transaction fee, but no different then they already pay. Discover/whoever handles the commission payments to AT&T for the transaction instead of the traditional card processor, so it costs neither you nor the merchant extra (though he may be asked to buy the device same as he buys any other card reader).
The system is MUCH safer and more secure than using a traditional credit card, and even more so than "waving" a card that uses RFID (which can be easily gleamed with simple equipment). Generally, a signature is also required with these transactions aside from those done at vending machines, and for some ID is also required to be checked.
This has been in use for 6 years overseas, its shaken out and well secured.
No this doesn't sound like a horrible idea at all...
between any ridiculous premium which shouldn't exist, to making phones be an even bigger target for thieves, to the news this past weekend where GSM signals were intercepted with a mere $1500 worth of equipment, to the fact that companies already play fast-and-loose with our private data, i can't imagine why anyone would consider this a bad idea. Nope, can't think of any reasons why this would turn into a security disaster.
:rolleyes:
I'd pay a premium...to NOT have this in my phone.
Hahaha. Thanks for making my morning.
wow lots of worried people... they already have this in Japan and other countries. I guess USA just aren't advance enough to have this.
@phuz
You are right, we AREN'T advanced enough to have it here in the US. If this happens in the US, like almost everything else, it is going to be some 1/2-ass job with little or no oversight of these companies. Europe has strict laws that prevent companies from storing tons of important data on their customers and thus identity theft is not nearly the problem there as it is here in the US. Also factor in that American companies will do as little as possible to keep customer data secure and I see huge problems with this.
This has disaster written all over it, and on top of that, these companies want to charge MORE for using this service?!? Are you kidding me?
@Hazdaz PCI and PII compliance laws in the US are already very strict actually. Verizon/etc will not have any more access to your account information than they already have to bill you for your monthly charges. Their systems are restricted to very tight network rules and mandatory government audits, and very strict penalties for failure to secure that data. That data must be in PCI or ATM networks not connected to other less secure systems, and the logging requirements are insane. And this is just so that Verizon could "pass through" this request to Discover's own authentication systems.
This is many times more secure than simply paying a bill online at a random local utilities' web site, let alone online merchants, and far safer still than actually carrying a card with is not only easily stolen, but easily cloned.
This is a well tested and well proven system overseas. Mis use of credit card data is very harshly punished here in the USA. I know, I've designed and implemented systems for many banks, hospitals, and large firms that do very similar "pass through" transaction processing. This would follow all the same rules and regulations associated with the existing card processing networks, yet the data you have to make that transaction is even more secure because its not actually stored in your device, and not on your person and not sent OTA.
@augustjl
Or: instead of me needing a new chip in my phone, retailers could just start accepting PayPal on those little debit/credit swyping devices.
There, no more cards, just my own knowledge of my account info carried safely in my head. How much more safe can you get? Lookout!!! Leonardo DiCaprio is coming this way!!
It took me a while to think of a company that American's trust less than their credit card companies... but I came up with it:
THE PHONE COMPANY!!
@The Albatross I don't know how your credit card works, but I'm not responsible for fraudulent charges.
So I'm no more worried about losing my phone having the signal intercepted than someone stealing my card or getting a hold of the number on it.
I feel like people were concerned the same way about security when BANKS were first invented...
@Darkroom "what's a small premium"? IF I could only carry my phone and no longer need a wallet or keys.... I might be tempted.
Battery life needs to improve a lot.
already available since 2004 in Japan
http://www.nttdocomo.com/services/osaifu/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaifu-Keitai
@liftedngifted1 not important, but the article never said the top 3 carriers, it said 3 of the 4 main carriers in the US.
Oh crap, I lost my credit card, better call in and have them cancel it.....oh crap!
@augustjl
The US is one of the least secure countries when it comes to credit cards and ATM's. China for instance has pins for all their credit cards and ATMs are all 6 digit pins. So if there you're going to worry about your cellphone being lost, then you should be worried now.
I can see embedded NFC being much safer in that you can input your pin number right on your phone to confirm your payments and we can integrated other types of security like biometrics if necessary. Plus cellphones would enable other types of data like potentially having stored multiple images of someone so when you purchase something, the images could pop up on the cash register and then the person checking you out could better ensure that it's your phone. Much better than any system we're using now.
@liftedngifted1
Ok, your comment was just dumb for no reason. If you read carefully it clearly states "3 out of 4" not "top 3 phone carriers." But I'm guessing you are on Sprint because from that whole article you only noticed something small like that. But never the less, "All hail Sprint!" (Raises mini pocket tv aka Evo 4g)...umm NOT!
@Darkroom
No way in hell I would use that. Can you imagine the chaos on Android, it being open and all!?!
@steel I wouldn't want to be standing behind you in line as you stand there wasting everyone's time typing in your PayPal account info.
@liftedngifted1
Kudos for sprint :-)
This is an aweful idea. I would be into maybe an app from the major credit card companies where I could use my phone to pay for items the same as a credit card.
There is no way in hell I would trust my telco to charging my wireless bill with credit. I can't even fathom all the hidden chargers they could start hiding in my bill!
Not to mention they probably wouldn't be required to follow all the new and old legislation imposed on the financial institutes for our security and protection!
No thank you!
@i5xswipe Did you read this? It;s Discover partnering with the teclos for passthrough authentication to their own systems. These transactions will NOT be on your bill, they will not be handled OTA (the actual transaction data happens over the ATM network, as does any credit card purchase at a merchant), there is no card info stored in your device, and it is ridiculously more secure than having a card in your hand. It;s been proven over as secure for 6 years in other countries.
@augustjl You do not understand the technology in use here. Stop spreading FUD!
This is SO much more secure, on so many more levels, than your wallet. It's traceable and also uses geo-location in the device to find you if you steal the phone, no account data is stored in the phone only with the carrier's systems so it can't be simply stolen, its protected by 2 PIN numbers not one, it can only be used on-site (not on-line), a single phone call turns off every card you have associated with this, yet without ALSO disabling the cards themselves (phone won't work, card still will, unless you ALSO call the card company, no one can simply read your account number off a stolen device, and finally if all that fails, you're still backed by cardholder agreements (with 2 parties instead of one) guaranteeing you are compensated for any invalid transactions.
This has been in use in Japan and Korea for more than 6 years. Incident of account theft is limited only to cases where the cell account itself was taken as part of ID theft, and then still someone has to know the pin on the accounts, and has to not report the theft.
The credit cards in your wallet can be stolen in so many ways, even without leaving your pocket, and can be immediately used. You phone can not be cloned on the network while yours is still active, and the transactions only work (with the pin) when the phone is not only on, but also validated its location matches that of the store its being used at. Crooks stealing a phone would be quickly tracked, and be guilty not only of phone theft (which is severe enough in many states) but now also ID theft? No smart crook is going to steal a phone, and no dumb crook will get away with it.... This is a non-issue.
Gee, lets all just scream in panic about ID theft and security risk before we have even the slightest fucking clue how secure this really is, and what technology its using, and how it works. This is 10 times more secure than even having a single credit card in your pocket.
something about this just seems wrong
Why not just put a paywave stick on back of the phone? NFC only make sense if the receiver is offline, so the sender will authorize a verifiable micro payment. But if the receiver is online as most payment gateway nowadays, all they need a digital id to verify payment.
@liftedngifted1 The article reads, three of the big four...
1. No Premium
2. Option to enable/disable use
Plus this is already present Japan.
@zelannii I think someone stole your sense of humor, it seems to be missing.