Reports out of India this morning claim that RIM has agreed a deal with the local government to permit its security agencies to "
monitor" email and messaging done on BlackBerry devices. There's even a roadmap for this snooperiffic rollout, as all consumer email is expected to be opened up within 15 days and tools are being developed over the next six to eight months to allow chat surveillance as well. A very detailed report indeed, but the IDG News service reports RIM has rubbished the entire thing, stating it's in a continuing dialog with the Indian government and discussions remain confidential. Then again, we'd expect RIM to keep up the facade as long as possible, considering the likely domino effect a capitulation in India would have in nearby states that have
similar security concerns. In the mean time, Nokia has meekly announced it'll be complying with the Indian government's rules for push mail and is "installing the required infrastructure." For more on that and the
BlackBerry saga, hit the source links below.
posted August 3rd 2010 7:12AM
I have a feeling the US if not already, will want to do the same. Technology will soon be our enemy.
@ram130
BS. The parent company usually has NO CLUE what goes on in the Indian division. Indian companies HAVE to comply with ANYTHING the government demands or they're screwed, literally. Non-compliance will result in sabotage, "accidents" and other unfortunate events that will result in the company shutting down.
@pple is poo
lol im sure they will love to
@Kurian You obviously don't know how the Indian government and bureaucracy works. Nothing gets done. Or if it does, it takes the best part of two decades.
@ram130
HELP NEEDED
Is this whole debacle that RIM wants to sell Blackberry's in India,
BUT India won't agree unless RIM gives the Indian government access to each Blackberry owners private info (emails, sms, mms etc) ??
@pple is poo
All I see is Angry Sonic the Hedgehog...
I am from India. The entire government is a big corruption ring.
@Kurian Very true. All the rules are made so ultimately Companies will have to bribe. A Raja won't give a damn about security if RIM can pay their way in.
@r3loaded How do u know so much about the indian government?
sounds like someone's trying to axe down RIM's reputation
@Kev007 To look from the bright side, these news are proving how secure rim is compare to competitors. I hope rim manage to get out from this predicament cuz I don't want to see one major contender backing out from market as a result.
@goopy
I bet anything that RIM will comply, as Google did to China rules (contrary to what some western media claim).
At the end of the day, it's just a business and money is their guide.
Actually, RIM has struck a deal. India said it would ban Blackberry services much before Saudi & UAE did but RIM said that India is a strong market for us & we'll work with the government & also enhance their services in order for total consumer satisfaction hence they allowed the security agencies to monitor all its services. Blackberry phones in India are priced ridiculously costly but people continue to buy them .
@shreyas
No they are not. They cost as much as buying them unlocked in US or Canada.
There's no such thing as private communication on the network. Everything we write can be read and nothing we write ever 'goes away'.
I hope RIM doesn't give in to India and the UAE's demands. Security is their big claim to fame, these countries say they want this info for security but they just want to snoop on their citizens to enforce their own theocracies or dictatorships.
@DJ The reason the govt. is asking for information is because of shitty countries like Pakistan. Even UAE & Saudi too have the same reason. Their worried only because of terrorists & thats probably it.
@DJ
Don't try to be a Grandma trying to make a comment on every matter even when you know squat about something! Moron!
@DJ Fact :India Largest democracy in the world.
: DJ not even the biggest moron in the world.
Why would RIM agree to do this in India and refuse to do it in the UAE?
@Tes
Cause in the UAE people will get their heads cut off.
@(Unverified)
I'm sure in your head that was hilarious, but...no.
@Tes Because india is a bigger market
@Tes Because India has more Blackberry users than UAE or the Saudi. The last one year has been huge growth for RIM. In 2008, Blackberry phones were there but were unheard of, Now with RIM lowering prices of a few BB models, It seems to have picked up sales & it is. I see many people with BB's these days
@shreyas
But places like Dubai are becoming huge financial centres where Western business people travel frequently. RIM's non compliance has reportedly lead to restrictions on cell data and wifi access for mobiles. Surely that will affect business in the long run as people attempt to find alternative means?
@Tes
Don't kid yourself, once they do this in India, they'll do it in other countries if said countries require them to. It's just a matter of time and money. And I don't blame them, it's business. Besides, those emerging markets are pivotal to RIM's growth.
@Tes
'cos UAE wants this access to censor content while India wants to monitor emails and chats for security. That is in India, the cops wont give a damn if you download gay porn on your BlackBerry, while in UAE / Saudi they would track you down and probably throw you in prison.
India is just trying to do what US does using the Patriot Act, but is more open about it.
Big Difference.
@Tes hardly just in the last few days on reading about the blackberry issues in UAE and India my wife and couple of her colleagues asked for an IPhone in place of BlackBerry.
UAE has become a major transit point for travelers to the subcontinent Emirates has now become the 5th largest in terms of Internationl traffic. It is also expanding much more faster than most international airlines.
RIM is just being stupid. There is also a possibility that Canadian govt or American govt want to retain the exclusivity on the data access to India and UAE which is always a good bargaining point in international relations.
I dont think it will work for RIM India has 300 million mobile Subscribers and growing, China has about billion + UAE alone has half a million Subscribers on RIM.
There are many options for a smart phone many from China they will be only shooting themselves in the foot if they don't comply with the govts. demands
@IndiaTech Downloading porn is Illegal in India. Ask the Internet parlour owners in India.
I think India's concern is valid. Security is a major concern in India. All the terrorists in Mumbai attacks were using blackberry devices. Local militia (Maoists) are also using blackberry devices for their operations. This is a nuisance in India and people of India are okay with government monitoring their blackberry devices. It would have been a different story if 9/11 terrorists had used blackberry devices but fortunately these devices were not popular at that time.
@dennisthebug You don't protect the people by taking away their privacy. You protect the people by having a non corrupt government, by enforcing the laws, and by training your public safety agencies.
@paul34
They are not banned but inspected and monitored.
@dennisthebug Yeah, so how hard is it to encrypt the mails and send now?
What next, ban every encryption scheme that exists, unless we pass on the encryption key to the government?
I'am from India, and I'am BlackBerry user. Personally, I dont give a rat's ass if they go through every mail of mine, since I use it for personal purposes.
But what happens when the corrupt officials in start leaking corporate secrets, like a product launch to its competitors ?
Do not forget that Indian Government owns and operates some of these corporations.
Of course, if the keys are spilled to Indian govt.. the terrorists will stop using blackberries. But what is the guarantee that they will not encrypt their mails using a third party encryption tool and send them across?
So at the end, only people who used it for legitimate reasons, like corporate employees would suffer.
In the UK I believe it's already law for all emails, website history and phone calls to be stored for 12 months for potential future access by the state. Not sure if instant messaging is included.
@Greg
You're overstating the extent of the law there. ISPs have to store the "details" of the email, who sent it, where it was sent, what time and date...etc. The content of the email and any attachments are not required to be stored under this law, and frankly I doubt most ISPs would have the capacity to do so.
@Greg
In the UK there is no such thing as privacy.
@rederikus
Fortunately, we do not have the CIA and the NSA snooping in on all the communications going out and coming in into this country. Hope BlackBerry was popular when the 9/11 happened. The only reason that India wants to monitor communications on the Blackberry network is because of the constant threat of terrorism and terrorists using the devices.
@spenumatsa Dude where have you been? Do you ever read newspapers? have you heard of google? do a google search on on this topic for the last 8 years !!!!
@dennisthebug For now. Vaporware.
@spenumatsa Then maybe India should help make their public safety agencies better and place other programs in effect rather then take away privacy. Terrorists will find ways around these electronics. Its not the person monitoring cell phone calls that save lives and find domestic terrorists. Its the men on the street in patrol cars.
If you have a known terrorist then tapping his phone and monitoring his phone is worth it. However, monitoring my calls to a girlfriend is just ludicrous.
i think the movie was called "enemy of the state" (will smith) and there was a comment that goes like, "the only privacy you have left is in your head". ;)
@Digi
But terrorists will be required to adjust their tactics right? As an Indian, screw my privacy, first save my life from those damn socially-uneducated bastards.
@Digi
You think CIA and NSA snooping does not constitute "taking away your privacy"? You think they don't have access to your BB communications?
It's like RIM is trying to go out of business. Evolve quickly (it may be too late already) or you're done.
I really don't think what the fuss is all about. If the law enforcement agencies need access then they should get it. It is not that they are going to spend time reading all your mails and chats about your date last night. They have far better thing to do.
As someone said the terrorists might change the tactics, that itself is a victory as we have managed to cut down a viable communication channel for them.
@ram130
I'm not sure if that is the case, there is technology to look through your window or watch you from satellites, but no one seems to mind sun-bathing?
I understand that this might make data mining a bit easier, but you are still looking at data from millions going through a few hundred hands. The probability of someone looking at your specific data would be equivalent to that of hitting a jackpot!
@Kurian dude, stop talking BS you dont know. India has been grappling with the the problems left behind by the US in Afghanistan since the '80s. India has a whole lot of terrorist threats, and the people of India would probably welcome the snooping measures.. provided it works out to achieve its goals!
government only need to find a few keyword like "bomb" "suicide" "kill" "jihad" etc and they will monitor emails or IM's with those keywords. no mean to take your privacy, but for your life safety only
@Sharuk
They do have specific language and that where government intelligent and spies take their place, like in Indonesia the terrorist call their bombers as "brides". Human can only try and hope, finally God will decide it. At least they try
So, in RIM-speak, rubbish=open emails for India's government.
The UAE will be next.
So what. All these countries want is the same access USA, UK, France, Canada, etc. all have to your emails.
Yes the United States has the technology and yes it has been used. Thank you Bush and your wonderful "Patriot Act." Oh no! I have said too much... Aaahhhhhh!