Not really. Yes, it's better than other Blackberries but this should have been released last year and then this year should have something a lot better. I mean, come on, half the resolution of what it should have been for the screen, and only a 624 mhz processor. RIM needed to come out with something that wow'd everybody and this phone is too little, too late. We can only hope that the new OS 6 will at least meet our expectations, if not surpass them, otherwise, RIM will be in danger of lossing A LOT of customers!
You read the whole article in 3 minutes? Doubtful.
It may be underpowered but it looks like it makes up for it in battery life, very important for the business person on the go. RIM has a very specific market and they serve them well. I'm not sure this review is done in the right mindset.
@tyjb9x well this is definitely not the best phone out there because Joshua Topolsky said so. you know this nerd is the king of all tech. while he uses an iphone 4 with a crap antenna design and has to use a bumper but is so smug about it that he cant take his head out of his apps ass to see that not everyone thinks jesus phone is just that. this site is getting lame .. to gizmodo i go
@ok1 Google shitty programming Look at the CPU, screen resolution, video recording, and overall design. Its dated when RIM needs a high end phone to compete with the iPhone and high end android phones. This is midrange at most.
after playing with our non working demo at work (and yes i know it is not the real device) the actual hardware feel cheap next to other devices that AT&T offer such as the Captivate or iPhone 4. The biggest problem I had with the device is how large it is. Its really thick and when extended its a full inch longer than my iPhone 4.
For RIM's sake I hope that the new OS is really good cause if not, I see a lot of people jumping ship for an Android device or an iPhone
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Josh Topolsky has said repeatedly that he loves the portrait slider form factor. I believe he's made reference to his anticipation of the materialization of the Dell Lightning. What's not fair is one of the leading smartphone manufacturers spitting out a slightly modified version of their same old hardware and expecting it to compete with the innovative handsets competitors are building. Unfortunately, it will--because it's a Blackberry.
The one thing I'm really mad at RIM about is how they hyped their new devices to be "revolutionary". If they had not said they were bringing in some game changers, I would not have been so disappointed.
But I'm sure it's still a decent, solid smartphone.
@Matt314 how can a just-yesterday-launched phone have a full review already? I mean, c'mon Engadget, did you even get some time to play with it and get to know it? One or two days is nowhere near close the minimum time you need to perform an informed review on a gadget such as this...
You dun goofed up. Most loyal Blackberry users (and most people these days) just wanted to be able to carry around one device that does it all. You'd be surprised the amount of Blackberry users that carry around a second device, that in most cases is a iPod Touch. Why? Because it can browse the web, that's the reason in most cases.
RIM... all we wanted you to do was nail web browsing, like, really nail it. I've seen web sites talking about the 9800 and then now mentioning "RIM's gonna blow our minds in Q1 2011!!"... what? Are you effing kidding me? Nope, this was the time to shine and you blew it. You know how to design, the outer hardware of the device looks great but the screen size and insides (low RAM, processor, resolution) just doesn't cut it.
@Plazmic Flame Well put. With half assed attempts like this, I guess its no supprise that RIM is going down. Canada, the one good thing you produced is dead.
@Matt314 - agree - this device is DOA. Unimaginative company. Unimaginative product. Heck, they can't even do a good job of copying apple like everyone else is doing. This company is about to rapidly become irrelevant.
@Matt314 Imagine how this OS is going to look the considerably smaller displays on devices like the 9670 (you know; the aesthetically challenged calmshell) or the predecessor to devices like the Curve. It takes A LOT for an OS to jive on smaller displays. God help them.
@ok1 Google shitty programming On the scorecard it says "Portrait slider is a great form factor" So I don't think that the form factor has anything to do with it lol
@sweet greggo part deux Actually i'd say it was done in the right mindset, because RIM is really trying to convince the regular consumers that Blackberry is the phone they want/need. They're trying to compete with Apple and Google. I mean they're not trying to get more corporate users, because why would they? lol those corporate ppl are already either BB addicts, or need to use one since that's what their workplace requires. Since RIM is trying to get into the consumer game, they need to excel at the things that the iPhone and Android does in order to beat them. I mean, why else would a consumer choose a BB over an iPhone or Android phone?
@Firewave because it's better than the crap from before, but still needs to be better than what it is now. It can be seen very clearly in terms of the browser. I really wanted them to blow that out of the park but they fell short.
@serge companies usually send out review phones early to sites like this, so that they have enough time to review the phone by the time it's actually launched
You bring up a great point, legacy. RIM has a large legacy behind them, as just like Nokia, which makes it hard for them to break away from their "standard OS" and make something fresh and new like a Palm or WP7.
But lets be real for a moment a look at a few things. Keeping in mind RIM has to keep this familiar for their huge already-existing user base, what do any of these things have to do with legacy?
- faster processor - more space for apps (the OS and apps share the same space so you really only have half of 512MBs for apps, mix that in with memory leaks = hell) - larger resolution - larger screen (3.2 inches? WTFFFFFFFFFFFF) - wifi hotspot capabilities
Adding ALL of these things would not have affected RIMs legacy users one little bit, not at all. They could have done it all and kept the UI the same, I don't care what anyone says. Just wanted a smooth Blackberry experience, alas..... here we are.
Hope someone from RIM reads this, that's my final wish. Gonna go get the Captivate tomorrow, held out long enough.
@Matt314 Same... I never would have bought it anyway (BBS aren't my style), but I was at least hoping for something relevant. Improvements are always welcome but with all the amazing devices in/hitting the market, RIM just might be RIP soon... (at least in my eyes).
@Plazmic Flame What I could never stand about my BBs is what a pain in the ass they were to tether ... seriously! BB is supposed to be the ultimate road warrior business phone ... now tell me how to tether it to a laptop while on the road so you can use the phone's internet connection to get onto the internet? I've tried. It is a pain in the ass ... if it works it sucks.
Just another nail in RIM that everyone forgets about as most people don't have a need to tether.
@SeveringGecko Since I'm assuming "at work" means an AT&T store, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've never seen a Driod X. This is not the largest phone, even when extended and more importantly a lot of people are bitching that it should be even BIGGER. I for one don't have a problem with the screen size they are using but *for shame* on engadget for letting the reviewer use that lowrez background on the phone, every still that he took is going to give people a deceptive impression that jaggies are normal on this brand new phone.
For everyone else complaining about the 624mhz processor, mhz isn't everything, did we learn nothing from intel vs amd? look at the core i3, 5 ,7's, my laptop is running a i7 cpu that is a ghz and a half slower than my 5 year old desktop, do you really think my 6 month old laptop is the slower machine i have? It's all about efficiency per clock cycle
RIM covets 3 things above all else: Stability, Messaging and Battery Life. Yes, it may take a BB 2 minutes to load up, but if it can go months between reboots, who cares? I'd take that over an iPhone crashing once a week, and booting in 20 seconds. The Battery, if they had added a screen with resolution to match the iPhone and a 1ghz cpu, they would have got battery life like an iPhone.
The original iPhones had slower CPUs (400MHz or so) and didn't lag like this so I don't think it needs more horsepower. For a company making the OS and hardware, this effort seems poor. A good Blackberry yes but that's not saying much.
The UI doesn't look good either.
They'll get the message when their marketshare takes a massive hit. It's not our problem really, the market works itself out this way.
@serge engadget has probably had this phone for over a week now, of course there not gonna put a review on it before the phone was announced. Kevin at crackberry had already been using the torch for 10 days before he put his review up.
@Matt314 What did you expect? This is BB. If this is the best they can do while being 3 years late to the "new" game then they are dead in the water (with the exception of corporate users). Everyone I know wants an Android phone, not a BB or an iPhone (because they all got Palm Pres and *hate* them).
"months between reboots." That made me laugh, remembering how frequently had to pull the battery on my curve and tour to keep them running properly. I also recall that a "battery pull" app with an option to schedule a nightly reboot to keep things running well was one of the most popular apps in app world.
@Plazmic Flame I agree. I am a most loyal BlackBerry user. I am also a mod (under another name that I'll not reveal, on Crackberry).
I was desperately hoping that RIM would produce a real trailblazer with OS6. Alas it is not to be.
The 9800 Torch looks far too big and clunky. One good drop and you'll be oicking up multiple pieces.
I shall wait before making a decision to actually use a 9800 and, of course, I shall avidly read what my colleagues and members on CrackBerry have to say. However from reading the article, I am already thinking that my next phone will not be a BlackBerry and that makes ne sad. very sad.
The X-Fi3 keeps with the company's commitment to audio fidelity, thanks to the apt-X codec, which supposedly offers audio quality similar to a wired connection when streaming. On that front, the device also handles FLAC files.
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Nice!
@tyjb9x Im disappointed....
@ok1 Google shitty programming
the slider form factor isn't a bad thing as I cannot stand the other slideouts style keyboards..
@tyjb9x
Not really. Yes, it's better than other Blackberries but this should have been released last year and then this year should have something a lot better. I mean, come on, half the resolution of what it should have been for the screen, and only a 624 mhz processor. RIM needed to come out with something that wow'd everybody and this phone is too little, too late. We can only hope that the new OS 6 will at least meet our expectations, if not surpass them, otherwise, RIM will be in danger of lossing A LOT of customers!
@ok1 Google shitty programming
i think he means its dated in that its so thick in a world where phones keep getting thinner
@tyjb9x
You read the whole article in 3 minutes? Doubtful.
It may be underpowered but it looks like it makes up for it in battery life, very important for the business person on the go. RIM has a very specific market and they serve them well. I'm not sure this review is done in the right mindset.
@tyjb9x well this is definitely not the best phone out there because Joshua Topolsky said so. you know this nerd is the king of all tech. while he uses an iphone 4 with a crap antenna design and has to use a bumper but is so smug about it that he cant take his head out of his apps ass to see that not everyone thinks jesus phone is just that. this site is getting lame .. to gizmodo i go
@tyjb9x This phone is a nice, if it came out in 2008
@tyjb9x
I have to wonder, how is "The OS is far more polished than the last version" a Pro, when the OS still lacks a lot of polish?
@ok1 Google shitty programming
Look at the CPU, screen resolution, video recording, and overall design. Its dated when RIM needs a high end phone to compete with the iPhone and high end android phones. This is midrange at most.
@tyjb9x
after playing with our non working demo at work (and yes i know it is not the real device) the actual hardware feel cheap next to other devices that AT&T offer such as the Captivate or iPhone 4. The biggest problem I had with the device is how large it is. Its really thick and when extended its a full inch longer than my iPhone 4.
For RIM's sake I hope that the new OS is really good cause if not, I see a lot of people jumping ship for an Android device or an iPhone
Weaksauce. That all you got, RIM?
@ok1 Google shitty programming
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Josh Topolsky has said repeatedly that he loves the portrait slider form factor. I believe he's made reference to his anticipation of the materialization of the Dell Lightning. What's not fair is one of the leading smartphone manufacturers spitting out a slightly modified version of their same old hardware and expecting it to compete with the innovative handsets competitors are building. Unfortunately, it will--because it's a Blackberry.
@tyjb9x
The one thing I'm really mad at RIM about is how they hyped their new devices to be "revolutionary". If they had not said they were bringing in some game changers, I would not have been so disappointed.
But I'm sure it's still a decent, solid smartphone.
@SeveringGecko
Did you also notice how heavy it was? I thought it was too heavy. I think one good fall would destroy it...
@Matt314 how can a just-yesterday-launched phone have a full review already? I mean, c'mon Engadget, did you even get some time to play with it and get to know it? One or two days is nowhere near close the minimum time you need to perform an informed review on a gadget such as this...
@tyjb9x iPhone 4.
@Matt314
Dear RIM,
You dun goofed up. Most loyal Blackberry users (and most people these days) just wanted to be able to carry around one device that does it all. You'd be surprised the amount of Blackberry users that carry around a second device, that in most cases is a iPod Touch. Why? Because it can browse the web, that's the reason in most cases.
RIM... all we wanted you to do was nail web browsing, like, really nail it. I've seen web sites talking about the 9800 and then now mentioning "RIM's gonna blow our minds in Q1 2011!!"... what? Are you effing kidding me? Nope, this was the time to shine and you blew it. You know how to design, the outer hardware of the device looks great but the screen size and insides (low RAM, processor, resolution) just doesn't cut it.
@Plazmic Flame
Well put. With half assed attempts like this, I guess its no supprise that RIM is going down. Canada, the one good thing you produced is dead.
@Matt314 - agree - this device is DOA. Unimaginative company. Unimaginative product. Heck, they can't even do a good job of copying apple like everyone else is doing. This company is about to rapidly become irrelevant.
TL;DR version:
In the world of Blackberrys only, this device is the bitch-slayer.
In the world with everything else, it is the bitch.
@Matt314
Imagine how this OS is going to look the considerably smaller displays on devices like the 9670 (you know; the aesthetically challenged calmshell) or the predecessor to devices like the Curve. It takes A LOT for an OS to jive on smaller displays. God help them.
@Matt314 Another touchscreen qwerty down the drain. When is anyone going to do it right? My Pre is getting tired...
@tyjb9x
THIS IS A CRAP!!!!
i still can't understand how RIM is having a big market share in US and the world
@tyjb9x
When I saw that picture for the media player, I was literally laughing out loud.
@ac2913
It was heavy for sure
@ok1 Google shitty programming On the scorecard it says "Portrait slider is a great form factor" So I don't think that the form factor has anything to do with it lol
@Plazmic Flame
Problem is that RIM is one of the old players and has a huge legacy to cater for like Nokia and hence couldnt stray off the old path too much.
If they want to compete in the consumer high end, they need to create a new UI for that market bit like Nokia did with Maemo.
Im sure this will do well with current users but cant see it grabbing any new market share.. maybe just stopping the slide is enough for now.
@tyjb9x Is this Windows Mobile 6.5 or BlackBerry 6?
@ok1 Google shitty programming
he said he liked the idea of a portrait slider... it's even in the pros. did you even glance at that review?
@sweet greggo part deux
Actually i'd say it was done in the right mindset, because RIM is really trying to convince the regular consumers that Blackberry is the phone they want/need. They're trying to compete with Apple and Google. I mean they're not trying to get more corporate users, because why would they? lol those corporate ppl are already either BB addicts, or need to use one since that's what their workplace requires. Since RIM is trying to get into the consumer game, they need to excel at the things that the iPhone and Android does in order to beat them. I mean, why else would a consumer choose a BB over an iPhone or Android phone?
@Firewave because it's better than the crap from before, but still needs to be better than what it is now. It can be seen very clearly in terms of the browser. I really wanted them to blow that out of the park but they fell short.
@serge companies usually send out review phones early to sites like this, so that they have enough time to review the phone by the time it's actually launched
@dansus
You bring up a great point, legacy. RIM has a large legacy behind them, as just like Nokia, which makes it hard for them to break away from their "standard OS" and make something fresh and new like a Palm or WP7.
But lets be real for a moment a look at a few things. Keeping in mind RIM has to keep this familiar for their huge already-existing user base, what do any of these things have to do with legacy?
- faster processor
- more space for apps (the OS and apps share the same space so you really only have half of 512MBs for apps, mix that in with memory leaks = hell)
- larger resolution
- larger screen (3.2 inches? WTFFFFFFFFFFFF)
- wifi hotspot capabilities
Adding ALL of these things would not have affected RIMs legacy users one little bit, not at all. They could have done it all and kept the UI the same, I don't care what anyone says. Just wanted a smooth Blackberry experience, alas..... here we are.
Hope someone from RIM reads this, that's my final wish. Gonna go get the Captivate tomorrow, held out long enough.
@Matt314
Same... I never would have bought it anyway (BBS aren't my style), but I was at least hoping for something relevant. Improvements are always welcome but with all the amazing devices in/hitting the market, RIM just might be RIP soon... (at least in my eyes).
Sorry for the double post... darn comment system... so random...
@Plazmic Flame What I could never stand about my BBs is what a pain in the ass they were to tether ... seriously! BB is supposed to be the ultimate road warrior business phone ... now tell me how to tether it to a laptop while on the road so you can use the phone's internet connection to get onto the internet? I've tried. It is a pain in the ass ... if it works it sucks.
Just another nail in RIM that everyone forgets about as most people don't have a need to tether.
@Matt314 at least there's the eBoy wallpaper... :D
@ChronoSapien Not anymore...we're going backwards.
What exactly merits that iPhone 4 and High-end Android pricing of $199 on contract?
Answer: Nothing. It's running 2007 hardware in 2010, with an OS that's hardly a revamp. It should have been $99, at most.
@SeveringGecko Since I'm assuming "at work" means an AT&T store, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've never seen a Driod X. This is not the largest phone, even when extended and more importantly a lot of people are bitching that it should be even BIGGER. I for one don't have a problem with the screen size they are using but *for shame* on engadget for letting the reviewer use that lowrez background on the phone, every still that he took is going to give people a deceptive impression that jaggies are normal on this brand new phone.
For everyone else complaining about the 624mhz processor, mhz isn't everything, did we learn nothing from intel vs amd? look at the core i3, 5 ,7's, my laptop is running a i7 cpu that is a ghz and a half slower than my 5 year old desktop, do you really think my 6 month old laptop is the slower machine i have? It's all about efficiency per clock cycle
RIM covets 3 things above all else: Stability, Messaging and Battery Life. Yes, it may take a BB 2 minutes to load up, but if it can go months between reboots, who cares? I'd take that over an iPhone crashing once a week, and booting in 20 seconds. The Battery, if they had added a screen with resolution to match the iPhone and a 1ghz cpu, they would have got battery life like an iPhone.
@The Dark Knight
I think RIM is already gone down and their end will be very bad, I has a storm and I will not buu a blackberry ever never again
The original iPhones had slower CPUs (400MHz or so) and didn't lag like this so I don't think it needs more horsepower. For a company making the OS and hardware, this effort seems poor. A good Blackberry yes but that's not saying much.
The UI doesn't look good either.
They'll get the message when their marketshare takes a massive hit. It's not our problem really, the market works itself out this way.
This thing is KIRFy!!! What? RIM contracted their Shanzhai dopplegangers to design their new iteration???
@serge engadget has probably had this phone for over a week now, of course there not gonna put a review on it before the phone was announced. Kevin at crackberry had already been using the torch for 10 days before he put his review up.
@Matt314
only good thing about Blackberry is BBM ! yup, I said it.
@Matt314 What did you expect? This is BB. If this is the best they can do while being 3 years late to the "new" game then they are dead in the water (with the exception of corporate users). Everyone I know wants an Android phone, not a BB or an iPhone (because they all got Palm Pres and *hate* them).
@daedone
"months between reboots." That made me laugh, remembering how frequently had to pull the battery on my curve and tour to keep them running properly. I also recall that a "battery pull" app with an option to schedule a nightly reboot to keep things running well was one of the most popular apps in app world.
@tyjb9x
I WANT A PORTRAIT SLIDER QWERTY ANDROID PHONE PLEASE.
Seriously, it's the perfect form factor, and Android's the best OS around right now. Make it happen, hardware vendors.
@Plazmic Flame
I agree. I am a most loyal BlackBerry user. I am also a mod (under another name that I'll not reveal, on Crackberry).
I was desperately hoping that RIM would produce a real trailblazer with OS6. Alas it is not to be.
The 9800 Torch looks far too big and clunky. One good drop and you'll be oicking up multiple pieces.
I shall wait before making a decision to actually use a 9800 and, of course, I shall avidly read what my colleagues and members on CrackBerry have to say. However from reading the article, I am already thinking that my next phone will not be a BlackBerry and that makes ne sad. very sad.