TiVo Premiere vs Windows 7 Media Center

Although TiVo and ReplayTV were the first DVRs on the market, Microsoft's software actually powered the DISHPlayer Satellite DVR in late 1999. So here we are over 10 years later and while TiVo and Microsoft took different approaches to the same space, of the three original DVR software companies, they're the only two left. Which is the bigger success depends on your perspective, because while TiVo has the mind share (and sold more consumer branded products) Microsoft's technology is present in many other brand DVRs, like Verizon's FiOS DVR, and AT&T's U-Verse (which is built on Microsoft's Mediaroom platform). But our perspective of success is based on the user interface experience, so while we previously reviewed both the TiVo Premiere and Windows 7 Media Center, we wanted to also tackled the task of directly comparing the two. Of course there are some obvious differences that might sway someone in one way or another, like TiVo's simpler out of the box setup or Media Center's 3rd party plug-in architecture, there are many other points of distinction to discover if you click on through and read about the less obvious user interface differences as well as a few other baked-in non-DVR features.

TiVo Premier vs Windows 7 Media Center

The guides

As far as we're concerned TiVo invented the list guide, and as a result of being a long time TiVo user, we've learned to love it. And so every time we try out a new guide the first thing we look for is not only an easy way to quickly glance of what's on right now, but also a fast way to see what's on as far in the future as possible. And we have to say the Microsoft took what TiVo was doing well, and did it better.

The guide is easily one of the strongest advantages of using Media Center as a DVR -- well that and the fact that the guide data is free on Media Center. Of course this isn't exactly fair as TiVo's guide has remained unchanged for about 10 years, but there are a number of other things we love about Media Center's guide.

The grid version is big, never big enough, and the filters (built in and custom) are much easier to access than TiVo's. There're lots of short cuts to skip ahead hours at a time and a list of the next three shows is always just under the grid. You can add channel logos with a 3rd party plug-in and there is show artwork in the guide for most shows.

You can't double stack filters like you can with TiVo though and you also can't select a specific time in the future to go to.

But Media Center does allow you to edit the channel numbers however you like, and this brings us to one of our biggest gripes against TiVo, Media Center's guide shows very plainly what will and won't be recorded by displaying red graphics in the guide. We have our hopes up that TiVo will be revamping the guide in the next released of the TiVo Premiere's software, but until then, the guide in Media Center blows it away hands down -- and we didn't even mention the great mini guide in Media Center.

Reliability

Every DVR has a hard drive in it which limits its reliability and while it's possible to build your own Media Center with a redundant array of discs, most don't. So while we've had problems with both over the years, there is no doubt in our minds that TiVo is far more reliable. Of course this isn't exactly a fair comparison because with flexibility comes responsibility, and honestly we've had a very hard time showing restraint. But we're confident in saying that unless you buy some crazy expensive custom built Media Center PC, you're going to have more maintenance issues and more downtime than if you just bought a TiVo. If nothing else, you're faced with Windows Updates or you might get the itch to install a 3rd party plug-in that sends your system south -- we know we do. On top of all that, we've found TiVo's guide data more reliable and it updates more often, but neither by much. Missed recordings almost never happened in all the years we used a TiVo -- excluding things like power outages of course -- and while we'd call Media Center's guide data awesome, we have missed a show from time to time, but we're only talking a handful in years of usage. Bottom line is that if you have little patience for things that don't always work, or even those that command your attention, TiVo is probably going to be the way to go for you, no matter what other factors are involved.

The remotes

If you don't like TiVo's peanut remote you might be the only one, we love its balance in both weight and layout. Add in the ease of programming thanks to on-screen directions, and you have yourself a best in class remote. Media Center on the other hand has a wide range of remotes with some better than others, but it does have one button that TiVo doesn't that we really, really like: Recorded TV. Why TiVo doesn't give you a single intuitive button to take you to your recorded shows is beyond us, and while TiVo lovers are screaming about the shortcuts for this same functionality, that still isn't as good as a dedicated button. That isn't the only thing about TiVo's remote we don't like though, the thumbs up and down buttons are just a spit in the eye to those who find recommendations useless, and the lack of a Stop button still baffles us to this day. Neither remote has many useless buttons either, which we love; but while both have some programmable abilities, neither are capable of macros, etc. Overall we have to call this one a tie, because we love both equally -- you know, the way your mother loves you and your siblings.

Scheduling and watching recordings

If you're like us you watch recordings first, and only watch certain events live. So finding things to record, dealing with conflicts, and finally selecting which recording to watch is arguably the most important functions of a DVR. So the way we like to do it is to give very little thought about whether or not we should hit the record button. We like to just hit it all the time and even though we don't watch half of what we record, it's nice having lots to choose from when we sit down after a busy day of writing to watch HD. And this is one thing that bothers us about most DVRs, recording something is a multi-button press affair. But with Media Center you set your recording defaults (keep until, new only, etc) and then hit the record button once for a single recording, twice for a series. You really can't get any easier than that. Meanwhile TiVo drives you through a number of menus after you hit record and in the case of the TiVo Premiere, the experience is different depending on where you were when you hit the record button (we pray this is changed soon). The options on both are very similar but Media Center lacks the live extension feature of TiVo and you also can't easily extend a single recording in a series.

We already mentioned how Media Center shows what is going to record in the guide and in addition TiVo hasn't changed the way it resolves conflicts, changes priority, or lists scheduled recordings, and all of these things need to change, drastically.

Needless to say Media Center doesn't take 20 minutes to apply a new priority order and it gives you more ways to display series recordings, like by name. It also gives you more information about who deleted a recording; but to be fair TiVo doesn't have real multi-room functionality so this isn't really needed. The TiVo Premiere made leaps and bounds with its new list of shows to watch, and while on Media Center we miss the ability to put shows into folders and list them by date, TiVo's display of recordings isn't nearly as pleasant to look at. TiVo's simple list of shows does get the job done though and the artwork on the right is greatly appreciated. We wish the list of recordings looked more like TiVo's episode guide, but we can't say we hate it either. Obviously a lot of this comes down to personal preference, but when you combine Media Center's flashiness with the simple to use conflict resolution, even with TiVo's great progress in this area Media Center still takes this category. (And we didn't even mention how painfully slow the TiVo Premiere interface is)

On the web and on the go

This is one category you might automatically assume Media Center, with its PC roots, would take but actually we don't think so. While TiVo includes TiVoToGo software with conversion features and archive, Media Center has very little built in and about the same 3rd party options as TiVo. And don't even start about remote scheduling. While neither is fantastic, at least TiVo lets you schedule a show via the web, even if it isn't real time. There are 3rd party plug-ins for Media Center, but nothing that knocks our socks off and so with TiVo's multiple web options, and polished desktop software, this one easily goes to TiVo.

Watching live TV

While DVR owners probably don't spend much time watching live TV, it is still an important feature. Surprisingly Media Center changes channels faster than TiVo (2.5 vs 3.1 seconds) and the fact that it has a better guide makes it a great live TV experience. But TiVo has a few tricks too, like the ability to control both tuners and keep two live buffers -- Media Center makes you record both channels to maintain multiple buffers (you can have up to 16 of these if you max out the number of tuners).

TiVo also lets you select resolution pass through which usually makes channel changing slower, but is nice if you have a HDTV with a great scaler and prefer the source device to just pass the original resolution through for processing. The custom guide filters that are easy to access on Media Center and come in very handy when watching sports, but with neither having picture in picture, switching between two games has to be done blindly. Another great old school TiVo feature that's great for watching live TV is its ability to record the buffer; on Media Center if you decide to record a show half way through, the recording only includes from that point forward. Speaking of which, the TiVo's buffers are running 24x7 so the odds of turning on the TV and discovering something cool is lost in Media Center. This is a close category but since we usually only watch sports live, Media Center edges ahead with its Sports Lounge. This is a great way to watch sports that lets you see the scores of current games and quickly jump to that game by just clicking on the box score. Now if you aren't a sports fan you might argue that TiVo's dual live buffers gives it the edge in watching live TV, and while we have to say you have a great point, we're going with Media Center on this one.

Multi-room viewing

A category that we give TiVo credit for inventing, also easily goes to Media Center. TiVo's older hardware limited its network throughput and in most cases there isn't enough throughput for real time transfers. So the TiVo solution is to copy a show from one DVR to another so you can watch it in another room. The problem is that most cable providers mark their programming as Copy Once which means another copy can't be made for the bedroom. The TiVo Premiere's hardware can easily manage this but its software still only facilitates copying instead of streaming. Meanwhile Media Center offers the same fate, but with one big difference, the Xbox 360 will act as an Extender for Media Center. This means that all the content is streamed from the PC to the 360 and Copy Once DRM doesn't get in the way. Of course even the new 360 isn't exactly the ideal set-top box in a number of ways, and so it isn't a solution for some. Both desperately need the meaning of Copy Once redefined to more closely compare to the way Amazon or iTunes's DRM works, but in the meantime Media Center wins this one because although the 360 isn't the perfect extender, it is better than TiVo's solution, which is nothing.

Netflix and other add-ins

If you make a box for the living room and you don't have Netflix integrated, there's something seriously wrong. For real, Netlifx is everywhere and offers the best glimpse how all non-linear programming will be consumed one day. So while there are lots of add-ins for both TiVo and Media Center, we think Netflix exemplifies the different between how 3rd parties can integrate. Now TiVo has been way ahead in this game and has had official Netflix integration long before just about anyone else, other than the Xbox 360 and the Roku. It was also the second to get HD streaming while Media literally just got it.

All that being said, the TiVo Netflix interface is down right pitiful compared to most, and at the other end of the spectrum is Media Center's. The Media Center Netflix interface integrates well with the rest of Media Center, offers lots of extras, and looks fantastic. It really is a great example of what is possible in Media Center when effort is applied. But that brings up the question of where is the effort? TiVo has way more official partners, and other than Netflix, Media Center doesn't really have any worth mentioning. So while Media Center takes this one in quality, it loses in quantity. But of course there are plenty of other unofficial add-ins for Media Center too.

Advantage TiVo Premier

• Resolution passthrough so you can leave the scaling to the TV, but it does take longer for the TV to resync.
• Skipping to a specific spot is easy on both, but TiVo's skip to tick is more intuitive than MC's number+skip.
• More partners for 3rd party content (Blockbuster, Netflix, Rhapsody, Life365, Youtube, Podcasts etc.)
• Official Amazon app, on Media Center you have to download via 2-foot Amazon app and play from a watched folder -- not exactly elegant.
• Web guide -- sadly it isn't live and limits what you can do.
• More way to view My Shows, like the ability to list by date or name and put into groups.
• You can quickly jump to a certain date and time in the guide, Media Center only has shortcut keys like skip and fwd, which also work on TiVo.
• Both show the next 7 programs in list view, but TiVo's lists are easier to look at multiple channels, while media Center allows you to sort the lists by show name too.
• Dual two live buffers makes it easy to follow two shows, Media Center requires you to record both programs or use a single buffer.
• The ability to record the buffer If you decide to record a show half way though, Media Center throws the buffer away.
• Buffers run 24x7 so if you turn on your TV to discover a show you like, you can rewind to see it. This also makes it respond to the Live TV button quicker than Media Center.
• You can copy just the unwatched part of a show to another TiVo.
• TiVo rewinds a bit after you fast forward to compensate for your reaction time.
• Both analog and digital outputs work simultaneously.
• Suggestions, which aren't really useful anymore since there is a free space indicator in TiVo Premiere.
• Free space indicator can be displayed on the My Shows list, Media Center makes you dig in the settings to find it.
• Bigger preview window.
• Ability to apply multiple filters to the guide.
• An episode guide.
• It is much easier to change series priorities on the TiVo, but it does take way longer to commit.
• Software updates come more often, but not by much.

Advantage Windows 7 Media Center

• TiVo won't let you look at the guide without watching something.
• You can edit channel numbers -- so channel 8 HD isn't 508.
• You mix and match tuners and set tuner priority -- TiVo makes its 4 tuners work as 2 instead.
• Channel changes are faster on Media Center but both are very close 2.5 vs 3.1 seconds.
• 3rd party interfaces are much richer, like Netflix and Internet TV.
• Automatic commercial skip add-in available, vs just a 30 second skip.
• There's no stop button on the TiVo remote, so to get the preview window to stop you have to hit slow. Or to get live TV or a recording to stop you have to go to a menu -- not exactly intuitive.
• The entire interface is in HD, no old mixed in with new.
• The interface is much faster.
• Recorded TV view is much richer with thumb nails of videos and show art on the info page. You can even sort by original broadcast date.
• Recorded TV lets you use the number keys to quickly find shows, so you can hit 6 twice to find shows that start with the letter N -- not intuitive, but it is handy.
• Grid guide displays 7 channels and 2 hours (as well as what will record) TiVo's displays 8 channels and 1.5 hours.
• Both guides show HD logos, but Media Center's can be color coded, offers optional channel logos and more than one custom filter.
• Support for up to 16 tuners, vs TiVo's 2 (even more for high end custom PCs).
• Can manually map Clear QAM channels in Media Center -- they show up in TiVo, but there's no guide data.
• Supports streaming shows between PCs instead of just copying (not Copy Once shows).
• Recording defaults which makes one button recording possible -- TiVo is at least two button presses and much more if you want to keep as many as possible and only want new episodes in the series, for example.
• Movie Guide gives you a quick and easy way to see what movies are on TV by browsing cover art.
• Automatically turns on closed captioning when muted.
• TiVo's "won't record" are in History, not "To Do" like Media Center.
• TiVo conflict resolution doesn't offer all the shows at once and doesn't let you select which you want to record, instead you have to go to each one and choose it instead, in the History view.
• No mini Guide in TiVo
• Netflix user interface looks much better and allows queue management (both streaming and disc).
• Hitting play while watching TV (recorded or live) shows the time and where you are, on TiVo you have to hit play to see the current time of the show and info to see the time.

Tied

• Both can be upgraded to as much storage as you want.

Bottom line

These are the best DVR options out there for a reason and both are very compelling. While Media Center excels in most areas that count, it is also the hardest to setup and support which means it isn't an option for the mainstream DVR user. Both are also not cheap, a TiVo Premiere will run you $700 with lifetime service and you'd have an even harder time getting a Windows 7 Media Center with CableCARD tuners for that price -- it is possible though. So there's no clear winner for everyone here, both are moving forward. TiVo has promised many updates for its Premiere and Microsoft just announced an embedded version of Media Center which might enable a hardware company to compete head to head with TiVo's set-top box model. Ultimately the DVR is a stop-gap technology until we reach a day when we can watch anything, anywhere, anytime we want, but until then we'll be using a Windows 7 Media Center PC and 360 as an Extender -- for now anyways.


Editor's note. This review and videos are based on of the 14.4 version of the TiVo Premiere and while 14.5 does offer some "stability and performance" improvements, it does not change this comparison. And although it does improve the TiVo experience, it does not change the authors opinion that Media Center is faster and looks better than the TiVo Premiere.

[CRA1G Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:05PM]

What killed a lot of the value of TiVo for me was TimeWarner Cable's ability to flag nearly every channel I get as "copy protected" so that I can't take it off the TiVo, save it on my PC, or transcode it into a portable format.

DRM sucks balls.

[dreamerkm Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:08PM]

@CRA1G a lot to read in 3 minutes.

[bjsguess Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:25PM]

@CRA1G

Great post. Having used TiVO and currently am using Media Center I concur with just about everything here. TiVO is for folks who want something incredibly easy to use. Media Center is significantly more robust and does so much more than activities related to TV shows. Once you drop in 3rd party software like MediaBrowser you can take your entertainment to a whole new level.

[Ducman69 Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:29PM]

@bjsguess Amen.

For the average person to more technical,wm is hands down the way to go.

For grsndma that still htes that she had to give up her rotar phone, get a tivo.

[adachan Posted Aug 5th 2010 1:05PM]

@CRA1G
Agree 100%. Time Warner ruined my Tivo Experience because of this. The thing that really sucks is that I already paid for the lifetime subscription before I knew that the "copy once" flag is on 24/7 on 99.9999% of channels. If I knew this prior to buying the Tivo, I would have never bought it. Tivo NEEDS to be straight with customers regarding this severe limitation.

[Center Posted Aug 5th 2010 1:12PM]

@CRA1G I have Time Warner and have thought about getting the new Tivo primarily so I can backup recordings of sporting events (I'm a big sports fan with lots of disk space).

So with TWC+Tivo, I can't save those games on my computer for offline viewing at all?

[CRA1G Posted Aug 5th 2010 1:30PM]

@Center It depends on whether your cable carrier has set the protection flag on those shows. If it has, AFAIK, you're SOL. If not, it works pretty well.

[ExpectAFight Posted Aug 5th 2010 5:06PM]

@CRA1G

DRM does suck majorly but different recorders and place shifting devices that can record? Wouldn't that be able to bypass most of the nonsense people go through with DRM content? This isn't part of my nerd spectrum but I was under the impression that Monsoon Hava Titanium could record to an external HDD while controlling your DVR.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GOrRe2ujB0]

I could be wrong about this but I think there are a number of PSD's (place shifting devices) that do this...

[aardWolf Posted Aug 5th 2010 6:03PM]

@CRA1G
If you had a Mac, you could use iTivo to get anything you want off of it. Heck, an experimental setting will even strip the commercials out. I'm sure there has to be something like that for the PC out there somewhere...

http://code.google.com/p/itivo/

[brennok Posted Aug 5th 2010 6:12PM]

@aardWolf KMTTG and Pytivo and Streambaby are the main three apps like that for the PC. KMTTG handles most of the auto transfers, conversion and stripping of commercials while Pytivo allows you to push or pull content from the PC to the TiVo. Combined with KMTTG it can even automatically do it for specific shows. Streambaby does exactly what it sounds like and lets you stream select file formats to your TiVo.

[Marko Posted Aug 6th 2010 5:07AM]

@bjsguess - yes, you could use mediacentre to take your entertainment to the next level, or YOU CAN JUST LEAVE HOME A LITTLE!
(:
sorry, had to do it!

[Schwinn Posted Aug 6th 2010 9:10AM]

@aardWolf : No, it doesn't. iTivo doesn't let you pull copyrighted shows down either (see FAQ #7).

The Tivo device limits sharing of copy-protected shows by not allowing them to be transferred. The only way to get around this is to hack the Tivo itself... which is more difficult on the newer models because of the anti-hacking stuff incorporated in there. (Series1 (and maybe 2?) was easy to hack.. since then it requires ROM replacements, etc).

[blampright Posted Aug 11th 2010 3:37PM]

@CRA1G Wow! If Comcast did this to me I'd sell my Tivo, cancel Comcast and go to DirecTV. Or put up an antenna and get free OTA HD and then turn to the internet to download all of the gaps I had in programming and not pay a dime for TV. Did the broadcasters not learn anything from Apple iTunes mp3 war and it's decision in the end to remove DRM because it's best for everyone??

[brillow Posted Aug 13th 2010 4:55PM]

@adachan Tivo is a crappy company. Just try and cancel your service and have them hassle you, literally asking "What will you do for entertainment without Tivo?" Before they will cancel it and then ding you for the rest of the year's service.

[Error601 Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:10PM]

This story does not apply to me 'cause I have Dish Network, and whatever they're using now is TERRIBLE (a true UI/UX nightmare). I miss my ReplayTV and its very simple, but still powerful interface (and the ability to EASILY download recordings from it to burn to DVD).

[Error601 Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:16PM]

@Error601 (yes, I'm replying to myself)

So, in light of my original comment...

When are we going to se a showdown between all the major content providers' own DVR offerings? In my area we've got Charter, Dish Network, DirecTV and U-Verse. I'm willing to ditch Dish Network for a service with a better/easier DVR offering, but not willing to shell out for a standalone DVR like TiVo or Windows Media Center.

[jedi Posted Aug 5th 2010 2:48PM]

@Error601

Yes. The big failure point for Tivo is the fact that you can't really use it for Sattelite cable. Tivo doesn't have any means to record HD from Dish or DirecTV.

Using Tivo basically means you are stuck with your local landline cable monopoly.

The basic conclusions are obvious. The DIY option will be much more powerful and the appliance will be nice and simple to deal with.

Comparisons between the various appliance PVRs would be much more meaningful. (Tivo vs. Dish vs. DTV vs. terrestrial cable)

[TheRealMikeyG Posted Aug 5th 2010 4:26PM]

@Error601
as someone who uses a DirecTV DVR, i can tell you it is a joy to use with one exception.

want to record something? one button and it's recording.
want to record the whole series? press same button again and viola, now the whole series is marked.
want to set you recording defaults to always start a set amount of time early, or end late? no problem, you can set defaults for your recordings easily.
recording a live event? the dvr will warn you it might run over and ask if you want to add an extra 30 minutes to the record time.
want to see your recorded shows? one button press and the are all listed.
easch show that has multiple episodes recorded is automatically turned into a folder and each show is listed by DATE inside the folder which is opened by moving up/down to it and pressing "select", with the newest show listed first.
want too mark something to keep regardless of recording defaults? press the blue button when on that particular show, done.

and the newest thing i love, is streaming from a DVR to another rooms regular set top box, no additional dvr needed.
However if you have mutiple DVR's, it will combine all the shows on them into ONE list instead of multiple lists.

about the only thing i dont like about the DTV DVR is there is no way to easily offload from the dvr to a portable format.
but that is more the content providers than DTV.
i can however stream from my dvr to my computer via network, and remote scheduling is a breeze.


all in all, in comparison to the craptastic cable company boxes i've used (mediacom), and the ones my parents have (Time Warner), and the Tivo i got rid off due to it just basically sucking ass, this is the best DVR i've used.

[BenD Posted Aug 5th 2010 4:53PM]

@jedi

Those are DVRs, those are sources. The problem with comparing a cable DVR vs Dish (for example) is not everyone can make that choice. Then many cable DVRs vary by market. It is nearly impossible to give any useful comparisons. Now a Dish vs DirecTV would be interesting, but first I'd have to convince my editor to sign two contracts just for a feature.

[bob e Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:15PM]

All thsi sounds too complicated for me...
I stick with my Xbox 360 and Netflix streaming

Props to the well written post

[clarinetJWD Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:19PM]

Good to see the 7MC love! I've been using mine for years, and now have it set up to record 2 HD ATSC shows and 1 HD Satellite show at once.

[muzicman82 Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:19PM]

I love Windows Media Center. It's pretty powerful.. more so than it gets credit for. I just wish a DirecTV tuner solution would come about sometime this century.

[IseWise Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:50PM]

@muzicman82
I'm right with you man. I'm holding out hope for that tuner.

[muzicman82 Posted Aug 5th 2010 1:02PM]

@IseWise We got so close with the HDPC-20 tuner, but then.. all hope was lost.

[clarinetJWD Posted Aug 5th 2010 2:06PM]

@muzicman82 I'm using DirecTV's H-21 HD receiver with 7MC. If all you need is HD recording with DirecTV and 7MC, get the Hauppauge HD-PVR. It now has native Media Center drivers and shows up as a satellite tuner when you set up.

For more accurate channel changes, I'm using DVBLink with a channel change utility that issues commands over serial. It's not an ideal solution, but it is more than adequate.

[muzicman82 Posted Aug 5th 2010 2:14PM]

@clarinetJWD Yes, I've thought about that solution. That's only a single tuner solution, and doesn't provide a way to simultaneously watch and record different channels without two receivers. I do like live TV pause and search features. I currently have a HR21 DVR, which is OK for now. I like things to be integrated. I would also prefer an all-digital recording, without having to use YBr component. Obviously you run into HDCP and copy protection issues.

[jedi Posted Aug 5th 2010 3:01PM]

@muzicman82

The process may be a little bit of a bother but the result you end up with is at least fully in your control unlike what some people here are experiencing with cable card based solutions. The main thing about HD-PVRs is that they are still a bit expensive when compared to their CableCard counterparts. On the other hand, they are readily available.

The h264 compression is also a handy thing. It increases your effective storage space by 4x.

...and no you can't upgrade the storage in a Tivo as much as you can a PC. Not even close. (looks down at 5x SATA hot swap bay)

[muzicman82 Posted Aug 5th 2010 3:10PM]

@jedi I work in pro-AV, and deal somewhat with Niveus Media Servers. They are pricey but they are nicely built and engineered systems. What's beautiful about their products and other Microsoft partners is that it just works. You might not have FULL control, but the way things are is pretty nice. I miss Niveus's dual cable tuner, which was basically two ATI tuners in a single 1U box connected via 1 USB cable. The ATI ones are unsightly if you need more than 1 of them. Just installed an n7 with four of those suckers for a client. Not as clean as I would have liked..

Analog "capture" cards are a pain if you ask me. Yes the end result is nice.

I too have a SATA RAID.. a little more than 4TB. I will say that everything on it is legal.

[jedi Posted Aug 5th 2010 3:15PM]

@muzicman82

If I can't watch a recording in ANY room of the house (nevermind putting it on the iPad or Archos) then I really might as well just be using a Tivo.

[muzicman82 Posted Aug 5th 2010 3:19PM]

@jedi Perhaps. Windows Media Center extenders work fairly well. I believe the new CableCARD laws/rules allow media to be played back on any machine and not just the one that recorded it.

DirecTV's whole-home DVR system is supposed to be pretty good, but I haven't tried it, or have much of a need for it. Direc2PC does work OK too.

[MMMMM Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:19PM]

I still don't understand why, after 10 years, Microsoft still hasn't come up with a DVR-equivalent of an Xbox, or simply integrate a DVR with an Xbox. Instead, we all have to relegate to hooking up an extra PC next to our Xboxes and TVs?

[bjsguess Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:32PM]

@MMMMM

You can buy small form factor PC's - they can be tiny. And they can look amazing. They also don't have to cost a ton of money. A dual tuner HTPC with a 1TB in storage can be built for $500 easy. With that you can get a Blu-Ray drive and all the features a person commonly wants.

Compare that to TiVO (or most offerings from cable companies) and the box pays for itself after a few years. Most STB's are around $16/month - that makes your PC Media Center a break even proposal at around 2 years.

[Ducman69 Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:32PM]

@MMMMM

Considering how microscopic and yet functional HTPCs have become, the real question is why do we need an Xbox at all.

Or why isn't the Xbox a HTPC w/ a decent GPU for gaming? Why is it mostly just a console?

Perhaps that will be answered if we finally get a real Xbox update this century, and not just a slim-down of 2005 technology.

[MMMMM Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:37PM]

@bjsguess Agreed, that's probably what I'm going to do, considering how there's finally a way to plug in a CableCard into a PC. But for non-geeks normal consumers, they would want an easily recognizable brand like Tivo for choices.

[ender Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:42PM]

@MMMMM
They should license their interface to all these networked media streamers manufactures cause they usually suck.
Also maybe develop an OS for the sigma/realtek SoC kinda processors.
I think the could reall bring media streamers to the average living room.

[daedbird42 Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:44PM]

@MMMMM
Because then you wouldn't buy a dedicated PC, or build up your Desktop machine, as well as they would have many more hackers to the XboxDVR.

Lets see....MS sells a bunch of Xboxes. They sell a bunch of Media Center-enabled OS licenses. Why would they cut into either one of these revenue streams? In addition to ticking off their OS hardware partners? If MS built this all in one, PC makers would flip out as MS would now be competing with them, just as PMP makers flipped out when MS released a Zune (but hardware vendors would actually care about this because, unlike PMPs, they are actually getting sales).
Microsoft is all about having a symbiotic relationship with hardware vendors. They only ventured into hardware in peripherals (which they were in before the market was formed), PMPs (where Apple owned 70 percent of the market), and Gaming (only competing against PC maker Sony, as Nintendo is all about gaming).
Ticking off hardware makers is not what Microsoft does, which is why they are not building WindPhone 7 device.

[MMMMM Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:53PM]

@daedbird42 Still, they should have come up with a stricter standard (like WP7) so that all the HTPC (I'm looking at you, HP) don't try to be a box good at way too many things (I can use MS Word on my TV! Wow, so what.) but a simple set-top box.

[bjsguess Posted Aug 5th 2010 6:47PM]

@Ducman69

I have the same complaint. The stuff the ticks me off about the XBox are so easy to fix.

First, allow more video formats. Support streaming ISO's, MKV's, VOB's, etc. I don't want to use PlayOn to stream my collection of MKV's to my XBox. Add some freaking codecs already.

Second, through in a tuner card. If you made it an accessory (like the original HD-DVD drive) I bet you would get people to buy it. Charge $100, give us 2 HD tuners and we would be in heaven.

I don't expect my XBox to provide as good of an experience as a dedicated HTPC but it certainly could close the gap dramatically with a few additions.

[drange Posted Aug 6th 2010 7:56AM]

@Ducman69
The xbox 360 is exactly what you describe, the only thing that's missing from it is better playback software and recording functionality. The former is something Microsoft (and Sony with the PS3) has been working on for the last few years, the latter is obvious: adding a 4x tuner and a phat HDD to the the xbox 360 would make it twice as expensive, and no-one would buy it just for games anymore.

As for the GPU: when the xbox 360 was new, the GPU was pretty decent and about as powerful as they could make it without making the hardware even less reliable. Every console generation has to last at least somewhere around 10 years (almost 6 have passed already), so it's only natural that HTPC's now have better GPU's. The whole idea of a console is that it is a fixed platform that doesn't change as fast as generic PC hardware, so you don't have to upgrade or replace it all the time.

[Jeff Kibuule Posted Aug 11th 2010 11:38PM]

@MMMMM

Because if you're playing a game while a TV show is about to record, you don't want to have to choose between the two. What you really want is a server that does all the recording and hosts all your media content and feeds that to any PC or Xbox that you have on your network. That would be far more efficient in the long run.

[PiGuy Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:26PM]

Good review. Two of these points make me prefer Media Center far more - the interface and the speed. I haven't tried the new TiVo bur Media Center is far, far snippet then any other DVR I've ever tried. It's frustrating now to even use a different DVR because of slow they are.

One point I have to disagree with in the review is how easy it is to take Media Center shows on the go. It was another reason I fell in love with MCE years ago - no software is required to pull the video off the device, you just browse to the Recorded TV folder and copy what you want over to your local PC and take it on the go. Extremely convenient.

[mycatsnameisbernie Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:36PM]

I just got started with MythTV, and it seems to have most of the advantges of WMC, with the notable absence of Netflix integration. But in return, there is no need to pay for a copy of Windows. It took a bit of the normal Linux-fiddling to make it work, but it seems to be rock solid and very usable.

[TheRealMikeyG Posted Aug 5th 2010 4:33PM]

@mycatsnameisbernie
and you just started using it, and havent gone through any of the terrible update processes, nor had the guide become unavailable for months on end, or had to deal with the fact that it is written in c and most people who write plug-ins dont use that language, so it takes forever to get plug-ins updated when the main program is updated.

MythTV is for the people who want the idea of a dvr, but mostly want to fuck around and say "look what i can do for FREE" while continually having to rewrite, redo, and wait for shit to be made available in working order.

I gave up on MythTv long ago.

[vansmack Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:38PM]

Haha. You said Reliability and Tivo Premiere in the same sentence. Please - will somebody start calling the beloved tech darling on thier shortcomings? This review must be based on the SD menu's or Tivo's reputation because there have been nothing but problems with the half baked HD software TiVo is peddling out these days. I don't go two days without a spontaneous reboot on one of my machines.

[ke4sfq Posted Aug 5th 2010 1:18PM]

@vansmack I agree!! My TiVo HD Series 3 is rock steady. But everyone I know who has a Preimere origially couldn't go over a day without failure. Now with the latest updates, they can go a week sometimes without lockups. Unless they put it in "Classic" TiVo mode but then what is the use of buying the Premiere??

[vansmack Posted Aug 5th 2010 1:41PM]

@ke4sfq One of my biggest tech regret purchases was the Tivo Premiere. And I buy a lot of gadgets. I'm not sure which hurts worst - having an unreliable DVR or seeing one of my favorite companies go to shit.

[BenD Posted Aug 5th 2010 2:11PM]

@vansmack

I've had the TP in service since it came out and while I don't use it heavily, I haven't had one problem with reliability.

[brennok Posted Aug 5th 2010 6:33PM]

@vansmack Since the first update on the Premiere I haven't had a single lock-up or reboot. Each update has only gotten better and 14.5 which is still in testing/early roll-out is even snappier.

If you are having that many reboots you may want to contact Tivo or tivodesign on Twitter.

[andrewia Posted Aug 14th 2010 12:03AM]

@vansmack
Ouch. I have a TiVo HD with a SD TV (LOL), and it works fine, except for the crash about every once a month from trying to view my Netflix queue. However, the Netflix browsing does suck, and it appears it hasn't changed in the least since the TiVo HD.

[DragonAsh Posted Aug 5th 2010 12:41PM]

I just called Time Warner and they said they dont have multistream cable cards.

WTF.