Mac OS X updates disable or damage PowerBooks?
By Ryan Block 
posted December 28th 2005 10:50AM
posted December 28th 2005 10:50AM
Apple, seriously try and stay out of some product settlements for a few, ok? Not but yesterday the 1/2/3G iPod settlement got wrapped and finalized, and today we come to find out that another suit could be inbound with an open registration of complaints over what apparently occurs to some users when -- of all things -- they update to 10.3.9, 10.4.0, and 10.4.1: their PowerBooks' lower RAM slots go bad. The current operating assumption is that the update actually makes the firmware controller or possibly the chipset get all wonky, which, in turn, may disable the lower memory slot (permanently). Has anyone out there in Engadget-land experienced this issue? Besides airing those grievances in our comments, you can also feel free to air them to the complaints registration site, which may or may not at some point turn into a real life suit. How ya like dem Apples?
[Via TUAW]
Read
O sigh. Me too, after upgrading to Tiger. I'm still under warranty though.
I have a first edition of the 15 inch aluminum powerbook and my lower ram socket will not work at all. I thought i might have blew it out myself by not grounding myself, but i guess not now. I've tried to upgrade the ram from it's orignial 256mb and have not been able to get any of 6 different ram sticks to work!!! I hope this is Apple's fault and not mine.
My 12" 1,5Ghz PowerBook bought in may, went crazy after I installed the 10.4.3 update. The computer started to suddenly freeze - with a forced reboot as the only solution. After a PMU reset this problem disappeared, but then all kinds of kernel panics started...
(System profiler still recognizes my 512MB-ramchip in the expansion slot)
My biggest problem is the following:
If i boot the PB with the power-adaper connected -> then disconnect it and try to put the computer too sleep, I get a kernel panic. This doesn't happen if I have started on batter-power / or if I try it when hooked up to the power adapter?
I'm starting to get really tired of this - because I had never seen a kernel panic before 10.4.3!!!
Have any of you with dead slots attempted a fresh install of an earlier version of MacOS? Or seen how much memory Linux sees in the unit?
I have the PB G4 - 15" (1.5GHz) 2G Memory have had no problems running Tiger 10.4.3.
My lower slot on my PowerBook 15 is dead too. Hadn't noticed until this article, checked and the slot is listed as empty, but should have a 512MB chip.
i have sound problems with my 12" powerbook, wich i bought in november.
Problem descrived here : http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=1253037�
17" PB, 2 GB Mem, updated every time one is available, no problems.
Got a new Powerbook 15" 1.67 mHz in november. Loaded it with an extra gb of ram and is running 10.4.3 with out any probs what so ever. Had the first battery die on me though, but I got a replacement within 2 days. Doesn't seem to run as long as the first one though. Besides that I'm a happy camper. :-)
I have a 15" 1.5GHz from spring 2005 and installed my own 512MB card after its arrival. No problems yet...
I think this occurs only on 15" PowerBooks (Aluminum). Mine stopped recognizing the lower slot recently. Can't pin it down to a specific update though.
Me too! After upgrading to 10.4 lower memory slot failed when I put in 1 GB. Several successive installations of different chips still would not work. Apple replaced motherboard without an arguement when they seemed to accept my articulation that something must be wrong with that lower slot. They have replaced the motherboard an additonal time and so far, w/ an apple GB in the lower slot, all seems fine.
I have a titanium... running.. 10.4.3 just fine... you scared me.
i bought a 15 inch powerbook with 1 gb and upgraded to tiger. the lower memory slot crashed and i had to get my logicboard replaced. altho i told the mac genius that this was a common problem and should be paid by the warranty he blamed this TINY dent that honestly was so far away from the memory slot and wanted me to pay full $1000. he said "those people on the forums dont know what they are talking about. you cant believe everything you hear online."
Oh did you fisher price "My First Computer" go kaput?
Naw I own a mac lappy (G4 1ghz) I only piddle with it, I was weaned on dos/win 3.1 so it's home (okie linux too, I'm not partial)
Oh did you fisher price "My First Computer" go kaput?
Naw I own a mac lappy (G4 1ghz) I only piddle with it, I was weaned on dos/win 3.1 so it's home (okie linux too, I'm not partial)
I have not upgraded, 'cause the mac is a 12" typing machine. That's all. I take it when I don't want to risk transporting my precious Vaio VGN 4 series. (ooohh 2.13 2gb 100gb goodness.)
That is not very good, even though I haven't been affected I will never buy another mac when I dispose of this one. AT least winblows spyware doesn't fry your logic board.
I purchased my 1.5ghz 15" powerbook in may of '04 and earlier this year the lower memory slot died on me. i had to sell my 2 sticks of 512mb and buy one stick of 1gb. its amazing that apple will not recall this major problem on there top of the line notebook :(
Does this happen on the iBook as well? Should i take out apple care on my laptop?
Seems this happened to my PB sometime in november or december. (I just checked the memory and it had dropped from 1GB to 512MB.
I will try to switch the memory modules, but I guess it's not because of faulty memory.
My 15" 1.5Ghz Powerbook (Apr '04), was also working great until I upgraded to Tiger. Then one day I saw a BootLoader trap exception (WTF? was the expression on my face.. and it was such a huge event that I actually took snapshots of my laptop with the error message on screen :) ). And then I found out my computer's battery would die in Sleep mode after a couple of hours... and later, the computer started bombing pretty frequently during use... then I found out it was cuz the lower slot was failing after few minutes of operation.... then it completely failed. so, instead of 2GB, i have only 1GB. But when I placed memory only in the lower slot, it worked, but not with both sticks in place.
And also, the battery drain doesnt happen when the lower slot is empty. but it happens when i have a stick in that slot. And also the computer gets pretty hot with the lower slot filled. So, to be safe, I have removed the stick from the lower slot. I hope this is just a kernel bug that Apple can fix... and not a permanent hardware fryout.
after reading this article, i checked the ram in my pb 15". only 1G memory showed in my "about this mac" window when there should have been two!
i called applecare and we did some troubleshooting. after switching the ram sticks i restarted and lo and behold, i had 2G of memory again!
so i would recommend everyone ensure their ram is firmly and properly seated before panicking.
sadly, it froze up totally a short time after that (while i was typing this note, the first time) so i remain concerned the issue may not be resolved.
(crossing fingers)
good luck!
Anyone seen this on a PowerMac G5? i have gone through 2 bad sticks, (over a 3 month period) and the haardware checker always shows slot J13 to be the culprit.. yet, it always passes the full system board test.
First, for all you Mac bashers out there, there were one or two Sony Vaio models with this exact same problem. No, Mac hardware isn't flawless. Neither is PC hardware. Bulging/leaking capacitors is another problem that plagued PC motherboards not too long ago. I even think it affected a limited number of Mac motherboards. Apple shares many of the same parts and manufacturers that the PC makers use. Actually, I believe Asustek (PC motherboard maker) manufactures some Macs. They have a subsidiary corp. that makes computers for other companies (Apple, Sony, etc.).
Anyway, for emphasis, I want to repeat what a few others have mentioned:
1. To my knowledge, this problem ONLY affects 15" Aluminium PowerBooks
2. It is NOT related to an OS upgrade/update
3. It is NOT caused by the OS
The problem is apparently the solder points on the lower slot fail which explains why sometimes people are able to get it to work again temporarily only to have it fail again (usually for good). Possibly heat related, possibly a manufacturing fault, possibly a design fault, or maybe all three. Probably fixable if you're lucky enough to find a place with the proper tools and know-how (no, you can't fix it with your RadioShack soldering iron). Don't get your hopes up on that, though.
Many other people have mentioned unrelated problems. One that gets confused with this is buying a new stick of memory and adding it in, then getting kernel panics. While that _could_ be related, often it's "bad" memory. Not bad as in defective, but not the proper kind of memory. The Aluminium PowerBooks have a bus slewing feature which helps save power by slowing down the bus when necessary. Some memory modules, even though they have the proper specs for the PowerBook, don't like this. Be sure to get memory guaranteed to work in the Aluminium PowerBooks (like from crucial.com).
And yes, if you couldn't already tell, I have this problem with my PowerBook. :)
update to my earlier post (#173)
the very next day i checked the memory and i was back to 1gig. :/
called apple support. we switched ram sticks, tried single ones in different banks, and a few other tricks till they offered to take it in to repair the board since it seemed the lower bank was wonky.
sure it's annoying that something failed on my machine, but apple is working with me to fix it, can't really ask more than that.
good luck
Wow, this happened to me about six or seven months ago (about the time Tiger came out) and I took it in to be repaired. They said it was a problem with my "Logic Board" and gave me a new one. RAM has been working ever since..
I had the RAM problem after upgrading to 10.4.4 on January 10th, 2006. I called Apple Tech Support and am now sending the 15" Powerbook back to Apple for repair.
Colin S: From everything that I've read/seen first hand, the RAM problem occurs immediately following an OS upgrade. Can you source your reference for the soldering failing? Thanks.
Class Action against Apple.
Its NOT a ram issue nor a user issue but a hardware issue.
-----------------
US Law firm Wolf Popper LLP have just issued a class action against Apple Inc. for all of us who have this problem and Apple refuses to help and acnowledge there is a problem at all.
In August 2005, we filed a class action complaint against Apple Computer, Inc. on behalf of all purchasers of Apple PowerBook G4 laptops alleging defects with the lower memory slot. In October 2005, defendant answered the complaint. There is an initial pretrial hearing scheduled with the Court on January 13, 2006. Prior to that, there is a meet and confer between the attorneys for the parties to discuss scheduling of discovery and other matters.
People with this lower ram slot problem need to register with them and list the specific extent of the problem they are having.
Got to: http://lowermemoryslot.editkid.com/ and follow the links!
Class actions seem to be the only thing that Apple understands
i have a 15 g4 1.33 with 1.5 gig of memory installed in the two slots (512 &1gig). I just updated to 10.4.4 and when i did the computer stopped recognizing the lower memory slot. So far i have not been able to fix the problem.
I bought a 15" G4 Powerbook June 2004 and have gone almost a year with a bad RAM slot. Now I know why. My friend who bought one at the same time also had the same issue and it was resolved via a new mother board.
Very frustrating. My Powerbook has been in the Apple Repair shop via Apple Care for 8 days! Unbelievable.
My 15" PowerBook Alu has gone the same way as all the others. Solution, fit the biggest memory chip into the working space and move on!
Sucks, not like Apple kit to die like this, sad.
I will get a MacBook Pro with Apple Care so anything that goes pop is taken care of, silly of me not to do this at the outset! Save me worrying.
Scott:
I can't be sure that faulty solder joints are the problem, but it makes the most sense. As I said, some Sony Vaio users had very similar symptoms to us and this was their problem. I learned this when I found a couple large forum threads somewhere. Someone from a hardware repair company (http://www.aqstech.com/) was posting in these threads as they were able to fix the slots. Not too long ago, someone from that company posted in one of the large threads on the Apple discussion forums saying that it was most likely the same problem.
As for me believing that it's not OS related, I've read some posts where people said they lost their slot without doing an OS update. I think mine failed outside of an OS update, but I can't be sure since I don't know exactly when it failed. So I don't have any definitive proof, but it just doesn't make sense for an OS update to physically break hardware. If it was a software problem, most likely it could be fixed by software and I'd bet if that was the case, Apple would already have a fix for us that we could download. I think the fact that downgrading the OS doesn't help and that it shows up as a failure when running the hardware test DVD proves it's a hardware failure. People have tried resetting PRAM and OpenFirmware with no success.
What's more likely is that people don't notice the problem until they do an OS update. Or maybe it fails a week or two after an OS update and they blame the update since it was the last thing that changed. Maybe it does fail during or immediately after an OS update, but that could be a coincidence. The only way I could see an OS update causing the failure is if it negatively affected fan control, but I'm pretty sure the fans in the PowerBook are entirely controlled by the firmware and not the OS.
So my educated guess is that the root cause is improper solder joints on the lower slot, or a poor design that results in the solder joints weakening easily, which then fail as a result of heat or, more specifically, multiple cycles of expansion and contraction made worse by high heat. If true, anything that causes your PowerBook to get hot (or even cold) could lead to failure faster. Unfortunately, just using your PowerBook can cause it to get quite hot, so there would be no way to prevent it.
I have a G4 15'' and I also lost the lower slot after I updated to Tiger. What is going on?
My 1GHz 15" powerbook has exactly the problem, but was purchased in mid-2004, so it's out of warranty and so is excluded from the repair program. Yes, please notice that Apple generously offered ONLY to repair units that are still in warranty (Models from January 2005 and later).
Lower Memory Slot empty after upgrading to Tiger (10.4.4).
My powerbook is out of special repair program range.
I hope Apple will extend that program to all models, I've see
in the petion's site that a lot of people got the same problem
with 2004 machines.
Apple, is your brand honest? Or do you want to loose a lot
of customers? Be careful, now OsX can run on intel!