Immersion ready to rumble with PS3 controller

Why doesn't  Sony's Playstation 3 controller give you the shakes? According to the company, the familiar DualShock-style force-feedback was dropped from the new controller in favor of motion-sensors. However, Immersion Technologies -- which sued Sony for using its haptic tech in earlier controllers -- believes that the controller could be made to rumble, and has some ideas for Sony about how to do it. The catch: Sony needs to drop its appeal of the verdict in Immersion's 2004 lawsuit, and pay Immersion the $90 million that the judge in that case awarded the company. And, of course, Sony would have to pay Immersion for whatever technology they use in the PS3 controller. Frankly, it doesn't sound like a bad deal. By continuing to appeal the lawsuit, Sony's risking another loss and piling up legal fees, and by dropping the shock, they're left with a controller that many have called a weak attempt to copy the Wii. Working with Immersion on a haptic solution could solve both problems.

[Galley @ May 19th 2006 5:32PM]

No rumble makes me less likely to plunk down $600 for a PS3. C'mon Sony, pay the $90 million.

[retsel @ May 19th 2006 5:34PM]

u know i had money waiting for the PS3 and was jonesing my buddy on his 360... but with a price of $600 for the real ps3 and other issues... and the fact that most of the same titles will be on both... the 360 is looking really good... i might just get a wii instead... sony i am sorry...

[Listen to your friend Billy Zane @ May 19th 2006 5:42PM]

Absolutely agree with retsel. A lot of people - me included - are looking at the Sony and saying "what's the point?" No innovation, nothing new - who cares about BluRay? - and the 360 is already out.

[Kamalot @ May 19th 2006 5:48PM]

I was playing Blazing Angels and Moto GP last night on the 360. Both make excellent use of the rumble. In Blazing Angels, the rumble changes based on the throttle, gunfire and if you are being hit. In Moto GP, you can actually feel the bike 'slide' on the street. It is downright scary when the bike skids out from underneath you, you can feel the tires loose traction with the asphalt. That kind of pit-of-your-stomach feeling isn't something you can get with audio/visual feedback alone. You need something in your hands.

Rumble adds a lot.

Sure, having a stereo in your car isn't NECESSARY, as in not having one does not adversely affect the performance of the vehicle. It would feel awfully stupid to buy a luxury vehicle and not have it come with something like a stereo, or power windows or another feature.

Now we are asked to buy a $600 game system without the 10 year old rumble technology because of Sony's arrogance?

[Larry Ge @ May 19th 2006 6:02PM]

Sony, it is time to stop being stubborn and swallow your pride. This deal is as great as it gets, and it will make the ps3 not looks so ripoffy.

[cz440 @ May 19th 2006 6:08PM]

bring on the shock or go home.

[jon @ May 19th 2006 6:09PM]

Getting rid of Rumble is like 10 steps backwards. The real reason Sony included the motion sensors was to save face for removing rumble because they are too cheap to pay up to the patent holder for rumble functionality.

It is truly outrageous to think that you would be playing a FPS and not know when your getting Shot from behind...or not know when your in the rough in a racing game...etc...etc. Tactile feedback is key to immersion. It's subtle but you definately notice when it's gone.

I'm shocked that this has been so played down. Most people won't know or care if their PS3 has HDMI. But everyone will notice when their controllers no longer rumble.

The guys at Immersion are clever...puting Sony on the spot and all while they have fresh egg on their faces after poor E3 showing.

[losttoys @ May 19th 2006 6:13PM]

Galley -

"No rumble makes me less likely to plunk down $600 for a PS3. C'mon Sony, pay the $90 million."

It is 90 million + whatever the licensing fees are to immersiion. Sony has always been hard nosed when it comes to paying for technology which they feel should be "free".

I would be surpised if Sony payed up to put rumbling back into the PS3, despite it being one of the more popular features (anyone else remember the huge debate over the announcement of the Wavebird and its lack of rumble?)

[Alcoholic Zombie @ May 19th 2006 6:18PM]

Honestly, if Sony wants to get more people in favor of the PS3 lauch, they need to set their damn pride aside & need to give Immersion their motherf***ing rumble check! They need all the help they can get.

Also, Sony should hire some actual innovators on their creative team. Not really a suggestion but a requirement.

[slyecho @ May 19th 2006 6:22PM]

I usually don't even notice the rumble on games. It's kind of like stereo or surround sound and high definition television. You will certainly notice it when you first experience it, but won't much notice it when you get used to it.

[V @ May 19th 2006 6:26PM]

i was never a fan of the rumble feature when it first came out (on the n64 i think). but more recently on the original xbox it adds to a greater experience. of course it varies with the type of game. ps3 w/o rumble would truly be a step back.

but if Immersion owns the patent/rights to such rumble features, why hasn't microsoft or nintendo been sued? or have those companies already paid for the rights for their use?

[Gavin @ May 19th 2006 6:38PM]

Nintendo uses a different rumble technology. And Microsoft settled + bought something like 20% of the company.

[pom @ May 19th 2006 6:39PM]

Dropping an appeal, paying 90 million dollars as well as PS3 royalties "doesn't sound like a bad deal" ? Oh alright.

[Pete @ May 19th 2006 6:39PM]

What is going on with the PS3? No dualshock, same controller design. The only good feature is the BlueRay and its new console design. 600 bucks wtf were they thinking. I supported Sony by buying the PS1 and PS2 but know this whole shit thats going on. Idk Something better change before November!

[Skandall @ May 19th 2006 6:59PM]

Rumble adds weight to the controller and little else, especially when compared to the value of motion sensing input. Would you really prefer to just feel the bike skid or actually tilt the controller to more acurately control the bike or plane?

As for the price... I don't get what all the whining is about. If you wanted a PC that was even slightly close to the capabilities of a PS3 you'd have to spend well over $3,000. I'd rather just buy the PS3 and use it as my movie player, game console, and home computer for a dirt cheap $600. Lets look at it another way.

$600 Mac Mini:
CPU:
1.5GHz Intel Core Solo processor
GPU:
Intel GMA950 (Takes its memory from system RAM)
Sound:
?
System Bandwidth:
2MB L2 Cache
667MHz Frontside Bus
Memory:
512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
Storage:
60GB hard drive
I/O:
USB2.0 Rear x 4
FireWire Rear x 1
Communication:
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller:
None included
AV Output
DVI/VGA
Headphones/Audio out / Optical Out x 1
Line In / Optical In x 1
Disc Media:
Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Games:
Sometimes people port games to Mac, but with integrated graphics it can maybe run current gen games ok to poorly. You can install Windows to play more games and performance is supposed to be respectable.


$600 PS3:
CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
Total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU: RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound:
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-based processing)
System Bandwidth:
Main RAM -- 25.6GB/s
VRAM -- 22.4GB/s
RSX -- 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB -- 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
Storage:
60GB hard drive
I/O:
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1
Communication:
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller:
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)
AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
Disc Media:
CD, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DVD, Blu-ray Disc
Games:
Around 15 titles at launch with amazing graphics and sound.

Compare the specs of these two $600 machines. Forget who makes them and ask yourself which one would you rather buy based PURELY on the specs above? Which machine provides the best value and performance for the money? This is a comparison that I haven't seen made before and I think it clearly shows just why Sony is claiming that even at $600 the PS3 is too cheap. If you're looking for a computer that isn't Windows based the PS3 is virtually impossible to pass up and that's the point; the PS3 isn't just a console anymore, it's an extremely powerful computer that can play amazing games and allow you to work on that book or surf the web. I've been thinking about upgrading from my old G4 MacOS X machine to a new Intel Mac, but after thinking about the above, forget it I'll just save up and get a PS3 instead.

[a good deal? @ May 19th 2006 7:04PM]

Pay Immersion $90M for their BS patents going backward and whatever they demand per unit going forward. This is what seems like a good deal to you?

Don't go into business, Engadget editor.

This is more an ultimatum/press release than a deal offer.

Rumble isn't worth paying much for. I fully support leaving it out until Immersion realizes they are worse off without Sony than with.

[prunejuice @ May 19th 2006 7:09PM]

Microsoft settled with them a while back for x amount and licensed it (surprised they just didn't buy the company outright). The full spec PS3 will cost �425 (or $800) in the uk (we always have to pay a premium for some reason), The Premium 360 is about $500, Microsoft admitted the a while back that the 360 wasn't going to dominate this generation of consoles, it was merely meant to close the gap on Sony, It's far too early to tell but if Sony keeps with this stream of f**k ups, the gap will be a lot smaller than anyone could have predicted. What has Sony been doing since the PS2 launched? The PS3 reeks of something that was put together quickly, Microsoft managed to launch two consoles in that gap successfully (debatable), you would have thought Sony would have nailed it with the time they had.

[TC @ May 19th 2006 7:11PM]

Not to defend Sony but who cares if the basic controller design hasn't changed? Wasn't it effective before? So the only downside is the fact that the rumble feature is missing? It is true that this feature will be missed for those that are used to it. However, if Sony is marketing PS3 as more than a gaming console, by trying to broaden the appeal by making it into an entertainment hub, and bring in non-gamers, will the rumble feature all that important. Incidentally, stand alone Bluray players are $1000, right now.

Considering how expensive PS3 is going to be (initially), how much will the consumers have to pay for the added license fee?

More importantly, Immersion just smells like one of those IP companies that beat everyone to the US Patent Office by employing faster patent lawyers when they actually haven't spent a dime on R&D to make something. If I'm wrong about Immersion, my apologies.

Still, any idiot can patent anything. Case in point: US Patent #6926006 granted in August 2005.

[l @ May 19th 2006 7:13PM]

Frankly you don't know what you're talking about.

[daniel @ May 19th 2006 7:29PM]

nintendo came up with their own rumble so werent sued, and microsoft settled but also came away with part of immersion i think

[prunejuice @ May 19th 2006 7:29PM]

WTF?! comparing a Mac to a PS3 is genuinley one of the funniset things I've heard this past two weeks. Macs don't exactly have a pedigree of gaming, that aside, can the PS3 edit photos, store all my music, edit movies, burn DVD's (or BD's) and a whole load of other sh*t? No, you my friend might be a tad biased or just really, really want Blu-Ray, persoanlly I couldn't give a f**k about Blu-Ray, I just want to be able to play MGS4. I couldn't give a rats ass what I play it on, as long I don't have to put my mom on a streetcorner in order to afford it. And the more relevant point, Rumble Feedback should be a given, and to the many other refrences up about it making bad buisness sense, one point crops to mind, How much have Sony invested already in The Cell? Billions is what I think I read somewhere, might be wrong, so whats $90 million for something thats now the a minimum requirement (for me anyway) for gaming? (PS Skandall, your stats are a little old, even the highest price PS3 will only have one HDMI port, sorry mate)

[TC @ May 19th 2006 7:34PM]

Skandall: Thanks for the spec sheets, but I'd much rather feel the bike skid than try to turn it with the controller! $600 would also get you a wintel PC with a much greater range of games, and your choice of controller! Granted the graphics wouldn't be as hot at that price point but it's a bit worrying that any comparison is being made at all.
I have to admit Sony is probably right not to pay $90M for rumble technology - Although Immersion have a valid patent and are right to claim damages, I think that is above and beyond the actual cost of the infringement. I quite like the rumble feature too, esp in race games etc. but turning the bass up on the Dolby Digital games works much better.
A side note - does anyone know if the Wii controller actually has rumble or not? Or do you need a RumblePak to activate it?

[prunejuice @ May 19th 2006 7:48PM]

sorry I, if your referring to me, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Can you enlighten me please?

[TC @ May 19th 2006 7:49PM]

prunejuice; Billions went in to Cell development but not all of it was from Sony (Sony,IBM and Tosh). Remember Sony is set to reap dividends from this investment in future applications of the Cell, whereas Immersion want $90m plus more money for the new controller, Sony wouldn't get anything back other than pleasing a few people with a rumbling controller. I don't agree with the bloggers view on this 'not sounding like a bad deal' as Sony's financial position certainly doesn't need them to needlessly throw $90m to another company, and Immersion must be a touch worried the appeal will be upheld for them to issue this statement in the first place. Sony could always do the same as they did with the PS1 and introduce rumble tech later in the console's life (Not ideal, I know, but after the court case has been sorted). Personally I think Sony are using the rumble-less controller to leverage their court battle against immersion, and a patent-free rumble device will be added later (possibly utilising that mini USB plug in the controller). Just my thoughts.

[AJ @ May 19th 2006 7:53PM]

#15. "Pay Immersion $90M for their BS patents going backward and whatever they demand per unit going forward. This is what seems like a good deal to you?

Don't go into business, Engadget editor."

Immersions BS patent? Have you researched the patent
suit to come to that conclusion. I haven't, but I would wager that the judge ruling in Immersions favor might be a tad bit more authoritative on that then you. And maybe, just maybe, the judge might just have a bit of solid reasoning for doing so.
Immersion has already won their case on the merits, so Sony's chances of a succesful appeal are already pretty low. This isn't a settlement offer, it's a final judgement that Sony will pay anyway if they loose the appeal. I really don't see why you think this wouldn't make a good deal for sony when they could avoid the attorney fees and get their controller done right.

[Brady @ May 19th 2006 7:54PM]

This is unwise for Sony not to include the rumble feature....In fact its just plain naive...

Look at it this way, without rumble, the new PS3 controller will be nothing more than an old PS1 controller, which really wasn't impressive at all.

Once gamers realize they cannot "feel" the game like they have been use to since the days of the N64, they will be seriously regretting their 600 dollar investment.

Secondly look who profits off this: Third party controller makers. If Sony does not make rumble standard, then there will be plenty of third party companies (Pelican, Mad Catz, etc.) that will be mighty willing to make it. It would be financially and reputably unwise for Sony to not include the rumble.

Best play right now is for Sony to bite the bullet and try to implement the rumble in their PS3 units before Fall, otherwise that $90 million that they would have spent will escalate to $300 million in losses to third party controllers.

If Sony doesn't show some love to the customer and deflate its ego, then all I have to say is goodluck with PS4.

[AJ @ May 19th 2006 8:13PM]

#10. "I usually don't even notice the rumble on games. It's kind of like stereo or surround sound and high definition television. You will certainly notice it when you first experience it, but won't much notice it when you get used to it."

Hmmm, so once you've gotten used to surround sound and HiDef you somehow won't notice that its missing when its taken away? Please think

[Alcoholic Zombie @ May 19th 2006 8:19PM]

Also, Zombies are people too! On top of that, Nintendo is taking innovation seriously and reinventing the way we play games. Sony really needs to get their act straight and change with the times or they will get left behind.

[Phi @ May 19th 2006 8:20PM]

Well, other than racing games and flight simulators, when are you going to actually use the motion sensing feature? This is arguable, but I believe that the PS2's success (atleast in the US) was based largely off of First/Third Person Shooters, action games, and sports games. The rumble feature contributed greatly to these games in terms of immersion and I wonder how it will feel when you fire a few rounds from an AK-47 and feel nothing in your hands but cold, hard plastic. In a video interview, Hideo Kojima (the creator of the Metal Gear series) stated that he was greatly upset and sad to hear that the vibration feature would be taken out of the controllers because it's become a big part of the MGS series.

[prunejuice @ May 19th 2006 8:42PM]

You make a good point TC, I forgot Sony also make a loss on every PS3 sold (at first anyway) so avoiding any further costs would be beneficial from a buisness sense, but still, try disabling the rumble on some PS2 games, I defintley miss it when its gone. Suppose we speculate all we want, we'll have to play it first though to see whether it does impact the gaming experience that heavily.

[RazorElite @ May 19th 2006 8:44PM]

To all those who don't think you'll miss the rumble, you will. Simple. Unless Sony implements it before launch, they're dumb. And the editor is right. How much billions already went into the PS3 development. $90 million sounds like a lot, but think about it, Sony has sold more PS2 consoles than that! So how many hundreds of millions are they gonna lose because of people not wanting to pay $600 for a next-gen console that doesn't have one of the most standard features in gaming today. Then as the other comment noted, the amount they'll lose to third party hardware manufacturers. I'm so glad I'm not a Sony fanboy. Just because the company itself is so damn dumb.

[OMAC @ May 19th 2006 9:07PM]

Wow all you people that are saying that $90M is a bad deal for Sony need to realize that Sony used this technology that someone else developed and didn't pay for it. Paying $90M and whatever else is a great deal considering Sony has used the technology for the life of the PS2. It isn't Immersions fault Sony ignored their patents. Immersion is pursuing Sony because Sony refuses to play by their own freakin rules. Sony isn't helping the matter by appealing the matter. What is really ironic is that Sony, the company that has tried and failed to come up with some sort of licensing revenue stream (BetaMax, ATRAC3, UMD and others ad nauseum) has problems paying the license fee to another company.
If Some company started making a product based on something Sony created without licensing from Sony you can bet your ass Sony would be going after them with all guns blazing. The way Sony has treated Immersion should be an eye-opening experience for everyone.

[Phi @ May 19th 2006 9:13PM]

Well, if the official Sony controllers do not support the rumble feature, I highly doubt that any of the game developers are going to write the code necessary for vibration function into their games "just in case". This in turn will disuade third party hardware manufacturers from adding the rumble feature to their controllers b/c it would increase complexity and cost. Besides, who actually buys third party controllers? I've been burned a few times (stupid MadCatz!!!) and the only non-Sony branded products I have for my PS2 are things that Sony doesn't make such as steering wheels and DDR pads.

Phi ^-^

[marco @ May 19th 2006 9:40PM]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a crap about a controller that rumbles? Sure it's nifty occasionally but I'm not really going to miss it. In fact I play fighting games and it would be damn annoying to have the thing vibrating in my hands when I'm trying to pull of combos. If you're choosing your console based on this secondary feature then honestly, you're missing the point. Which is probably what Sony is thinking.

[Badger @ May 19th 2006 9:42PM]

Not an expert, but that's most likely $90 million for PS2 + license fee for every PS3 controller sold. Unless gamers don't want to rumble anymore in the future, Sony will have to continue to pay Immersion for the use of vibration technology on PS4/5/6.

[Ben @ May 19th 2006 10:03PM]

Who the hell cares about it. Appeal and don't use it in PS3.

Dumb, useless technology.

I'd sooner die than pay $90m to some people who made something shake.

[Hedgie @ May 19th 2006 10:07PM]

I'm not a fan of the motion sensor in the PS3 controller. I see it as useful as the eyeToy for the PS2, or the Power Glove for the NES. Is motion sensing at that low level going to benefit gamers? I think it will annoy them more then anything. The Wii might do the same but I can't say that since I haven't tried it yet though they seem to be two different breed. Is duel shock important? Ehh, I dont' really notice it all that much when playing games. I suppose you can simply take the PS2 controller? No, I think that PS3 doesn't support them :/

let's just wait and see.

[REP @ May 19th 2006 10:27PM]

37. Who the hell cares about it. Appeal and don't use it in PS3.

Dumb, useless technology.

I'd sooner die than pay $90m to some people who made something shake.

Posted at 10:03PM on May 19th 2006 by Ben 0 stars

Your a stupid f#ck Ben. You'd say anything to defend your beloved PS3 and Sony. If Sony said next week that they were dropping Blue-Ray and still charging $600 for the machine you'd defend that too. Somebody hand me a barf bag.

[Pete @ May 19th 2006 10:32PM]

Good point #15, now you got me thinking about buying it a 3rd time.

[jason w @ May 19th 2006 11:04PM]

"I'd sooner die than pay $90m to some people who made something shake. by Ben 0 stars
Ben did you know that Atari and Nintendo and most first and second generation home console and arcade makers had to pay Magnavox for the why you interacted with things on the screen? And all it was back then was white lines on a black and white screen or 7 colors on a color screen.
The fact that many companies use the IP of others is not only illegal but immoral. People cant steal you hard work and call it there own. Besides Sony and even MS had only themselves to blame for being sued by these guys. They new they had the patents on the rumble tech back before the 64 came out. Thats why the 64 used a add on rumble feature and not a built in one.

[bigshynepo @ May 19th 2006 11:15PM]

----> #15
I have been saying this since day one and I am glad the sentiment is finally beginning to crop up around the net. 600 dollars only seems like alot to people because they had never paid that much for a system before. It is like in the 80's you could buy a car for less than $10,000 dollars and you had choice! Now, you need $15,000 to buy a car worth buying. Just like with everything else in society, inflation drives up the costs of everything. Just pretend you are buying the Cadillac of game systems, as opposed to the Toyota (wii) or the Pontiac (xbox).

Now, RIDDLE ME THIS, if Sony did absolutely NO marketing for the PS3, how much do you think they could reduce the overall cost per unit to the consumer?

[Justin Richards @ May 19th 2006 11:32PM]

Hmm, why cant sony take a page from nintendo and CREATE THEIR OWN TECHNOLOGY. It cant be that hard, There are many ways to make something shake, Im not some fanboy, like some of you others, every company has its faults.. i just think sony has been making some really bad decisions, and will probably keep making them until their death. BetaMax, FAILED... MiniDisc, STILL FAILING... UMD, Wait And See... (Its called a UNIVERSAL Media Disc, ok, Where are the UMD Player, Recorders and Drives? Huh? Oh, you arent gonna make em? SO WHY CALL THEM 'UNIVERSAL' ) Or maybe im just thinking that sony is making some very bad decisions.

[SR @ May 19th 2006 11:50PM]

Hey, #29 they don't know how. They got lucky that their first console was cracked and had a bunch of pirated games and became popular. Then stupid people becau se of the popularity of the PS1 really believed that supercomputer graphics bullshit and bought that piece of garbage - the PS2. What's so great about it and it's weak aliased graphics and lowest common denominator library. Sure it has some good games, but those games would have been much better had they been designed for a better system that deserved more sales on substance - not hype. Sony is clueless in gaming, and are about to embark on a fall from grace. They just got lucky for one generation and used the momentum for a second generation.

[yosh @ May 20th 2006 12:46AM]

why can't they use the vibration technology sony ericsson uses?

[shaka @ May 20th 2006 1:45AM]

who cares? im still going to buy one at launch beacuase nintendo and xbox totally failed this generation.

why make the same mistake again,just buy ps3 and everything will be the best for you.

though if they get dual shock tech. back would be really awesome ,like they could make the psp2 vibrate ,hot stuff.

shaka.

[TC @ May 20th 2006 4:23AM]

It's strange why people think the rumble is such a great feature. Does it help the game experience? Let's discuss some of the arguments.

Some have asked how one would know if he is getting shot from the back in FPS games if the rumble is not present.

Don't the FPS purists play on PCs with keyboard and mouse? I didn't realize those players needed rumble to figure out if their characters are getting shot at. When do mouse and keyboards started coming with rumble feature?

In sports games, when does the rumbling occur? The only sports game I can think of is football. Doesn't it usually occur during tackling? So, do you need the rumble to tell you that the play is over and get ready for the next down?

Not to knock down on Engadget "reporters," they seem to be merely trying to fan the flame where there is no real fire because it's so "cool" to write negatively about companies like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo when they don't quite deliver 110% of what they promised. This is coming from the same "reporters" that wouldn't have a job without the market created by these companies, but I digress.

Just to be clear, I'm not defending Sony or any other companies. If anyone has actually worked in high tech industry, especially in hardware, he or she would know the difficulties associated with bringing a brand new product to the market at a reasonable price that people would be willing to pay.

Because it is so customary for people to take things for granted if some minor feature is missing, they think they are getting robbed and have to protest.

Personally, even if the accelerometers work only half as good as the ones used in wii controllers, I'd think the controllers would be much more useful than the ones with the rumble feature.

[Marc Mayor @ May 20th 2006 5:24AM]

Immersion are the real innovators here.

[hawk @ May 20th 2006 5:26AM]

For once, I think Sony should really think about the consumer 1st for this type of matter.

I think Sony should drop the appeal, pay up, and make playstation fans get a huge relief for buyin a PS3, thats the best deal they can ever get.

Cuz one thing for sure, Sony needs PS3 to succeed in thier business, and this is a matter that Sony cannot take lightly, especially for the rumble technology.

As a long time playstation gamer, it seems like a step backwards in gaming. "Please", if Sony does take the deal (and I pray to God they do), then not only will it make me happy, but many gamers for reconisderation on buying PS3.

As they say "first come, first serve", so Sony, you better not screw this up for us.

[neale @ May 20th 2006 6:01AM]

didnt immersion originally sue for 28 million from both companies, but sony being sony refused? MS paid up and bought some of the company. now the bill has rocketed up to 90million? MS ended up paying less for the compansation and a % of the company?

im probaly wrong but i got that idea stuck in my head from somewhere.

i think its stupid not having rumble, i dont know how it would do. it would be weird playing a driving game and not feeling the car say sliding, youd have to rely on noticing it and the sound. rumble is another way of getting more feedback out of the game.

everyone is so used to it now that it would be weird without it.

[tac @ May 20th 2006 7:47AM]

i adapted to the wavebird, no problem. as will i with the ps3 controler....it should'nt be that bigger deal.
besides, you dont see computer mice have built in rumble features.....meh...dosnt bother me.
although....after reading everyones posts, i would have to say that paying the $90 million will be one step in the right direction.