Why doesn't Sony's
Playstation 3 controller give you the shakes? According to the company, the familiar DualShock-style force-feedback was dropped from the new controller in favor of motion-sensors. However, Immersion Technologies --
which sued Sony for using its haptic tech in earlier controllers -- believes that the controller could be made to rumble, and has some ideas for Sony about how to do it. The catch: Sony needs to drop its appeal of the verdict in Immersion's 2004 lawsuit, and pay Immersion the $90 million that the judge in that case awarded the company. And, of course, Sony would have to pay Immersion for whatever technology they use in the PS3 controller. Frankly, it doesn't sound like a bad deal. By continuing to appeal the lawsuit, Sony's risking another loss and piling up legal fees, and by dropping the shock, they're left with a controller that many have called a weak attempt to
copy the Wii. Working with Immersion on a haptic solution could solve both problems.
posted May 19th 2006 5:14PM
people always need something to complain about,
makes them feel good.
bring on ps3, screw immersion.
maybe immersion should make its own dual shock controllers than relying on sony to pay them.
I got a chance to play with the PS3 controller at E3, sans rumble. Yeah, it felt a little weird, but more importantly, the controller felt way too light in your hands. There was absolutely no weight to it at all, and it felt like it might break in my hands. Hopefully sony goes through with this deal and adds that vibration and the weight that comes with it.
It is true that I will miss the rumble in the controllers, but if you look at it from the viewpoint of how Blu-ray players are going to be upwards of $1000, the fact that this system is a media center and plays games with cutting edge graphics is just icing on the cake.
#57
Yes, If you are a teenager who's just about to blow $1,000 on a blu-ray player.
Adults who are seriously into home cinema aren't gonna want to be loading up their PS3 on their joypads to watch a High Def DVD at fairly poor quality. And the PS3 will be a poor blu-ray player, else why aren't all the $1,000 standalone players the same size as the PS3?
I can't believe the Sony fanboys going on about how this is a FREE machine, because an extortianate standalone Blu-Ray player would cost $1000 (twice that of its opposition).
Besides no-one's seen a Blu-ray movie yet, I bet its exactly the same quality as HD DVD, just as the graphics on the PS3 are the same as the 360. HD DVD players will have come down by November as well, so it will be;
Sony PS3
or
Xbox360
Standalone HD DVD Player
and a Ninetnod Wi
for the same price.
To all those people saying that they won't miss the rumble because they don't notice it anyway - that's kind of the point. If you noticed it, it would just distract you. It's MEANT to be subtle, and I personally think it adds another layer to the gaming experience. Like somebody said, it's often very useful for relaying information that would sometimes evade you immediate notice.
Of course sony can have both Rumble and Tilt sensing.
Its absolutely bullshit they cant.
At worst, you just have one functioning at a time.
(eg, games that dont tilt, rumble).
Their excuse is just a shallow way of them to save-face over the issue.
Its not any plausible excuse.
Sony should either pay up, or pay someone else with simerla tech.
Rumble is a simple thing, but it adds a lot of the expirence.
(And i suspect Nintendos speaker-in-remote idea is much the game. Simple ideas can really increase immersion).
"Thats why the 64 used a add on rumble feature and not a built in one. "
Nope, it was simple the fact it wasnt thought to be included.
(eg, why didnt the first playstation pad have analogue sticks untill after Nintendo released Mario64 et all?)
Nintendo escapes the lawsuit, frankly, because they use an inferiour, different method of rumble.
I believe they use one cam weighted on a moter, rather then two spinning offser weights.
Immesion just own the method of rumble, not the rumble "idea".
Sony has made a huge mistake with the PS3... They have made the Blu-Ray player portion of it the priority and that is just a bad idea...
Microsoft could release the next version of the XBOX in like 2 years after the next gen standards are in place... the XBOX 3 could easily have a Blu-Ray drive if that is the standard but it could also have a better graphics chip 2 years from now and a much more powerful processor...
Every year graphics cards get more powerful more quickly... why should consoles be any different? I would think that this generator should last 4 years at best... I got about 6 years out of my old XBOX but wouldn't expect the 360 to last that long... and if the next console is $299 like the current one I can get this gen now and next-next gen a couple of years from now and still pay less than the PS3 costs.
Firstly, Sony isn't innovating anymore and it is getting left behind... and that's not just in the gaming industry. LCD's (beat by Samsung and Philips with the innovative albilight technology), online games (EQ2 lost hard to WOW and Star Wars Galaxies is still trying to die but SOE wont let it), and computers (no one buys Sony these days, there are tons of better PC's and Mac is the real innovator).
Secondly, No one has mentioned third party controllers for PS3... Screw the crappy non rumbly first party controller and just buy a Pellican version or something (and save Sony $90+ Million so they can drop prices on the PS3).
Thirdly, this is a Japanese company guys... It's all about honor and saving face, if Sony had an excuse to pay the $90+ that didn't make them look bad I bet they would do it. I agree with previous posts that the motion sensor is just a cover up distraction.
Good posts guys, it's an interesting topic...
Fu#k it! Im buying the P$3. Most games I want to play are for the P$3. Yeah Nintendo looks sweat and its cheap but im going to pass. Is it just me or did the 360 die down ALOT. Most of the talk is about the P$3 and the Wii. I think Microsoft feels left out. Maybe thats why at E3 they mention that people could buy the Wii and the 360 and still have money left over.
I have actually always been sceptical of vibration feedback-- not because it doesn't add to the game experience, but because frequent and high dosage vibration has been shown to cause hand arm vibration syndrome, and even moderate amounts cause drift in limb position sensing, or the allusion of limb motion. That creeps me out. I think the short bursts are great for simulating impact, though, and without making my arm go numb.
If only game controllers could exhibit low frequency push/pull sensations. In fact that's what I thought was going to be inside the boomerang. Any of you remember the Star Wars ride at disneyland? See, you actually accelerate the person by pushing the chair forward, then move back at constant velocity, so the person doesn't notice the reset. Same thing could have been done inside the boomerang with a heavy rotating rod. Probably Immersion took that idea too. Friggin intellectual property rights.
What I am saying is that there could be BETTER force feedback devices for gaming.
No rumble, no sale.
Uhhh $90M is about half of Sony's profits for an entire quarter.
I know Engadget isn't a public company yet so the editors may not know this, but shareholders tend to frown on you paying out a significant % of their profits.
Sony's stock has been dropping pretty dramatically ever since their price announcement at E3. They were really hoping for a strong showing to comfort their stock owners.
http://money.cnn.com/quote/snapshot/snapshot.html?pg=sn&sid=4526&symb=sony&time=10dy&uf=0
I think Sony has to make a decision between making an investement (pay off Immersion) and saving money. I don't see Sony paying, though. Sony is too proprietary; always has been, always will be.
this joy is amazing ;)
----
http://ps-planet.net
Does anyone know if you will still be able to use PS2 controllers with the PS3? Backward compatibility is going to suck in games that use the rumble for gameplay like The Warriors and the Metal Gear Solid games. I'm sure other PS1 and PS2 games use the rumble for gameplay too. I personally like the effects that a dual rumble system can create. I don't miss it as much in the Wavebird because all that Nintendo as is a single rumble system. That's also why Nintendo isn't getting sued.
#50.
"It's strange why people think the rumble is such a great feature. Does it help the game experience?"
Yes.
"Don't the FPS purists play on PCs with keyboard and mouse? I didn't realize those players needed rumble to figure out if their characters are getting shot at."
True, they don't require it, but it not becasue people wouldn't benifit from the experience (see next answer). Moreover, K&M are a superior interface, that allow for faster recation times.
"When do mouse and keyboards started coming with rumble feature?"
http://www.lanparty.com/articles/touchforceoptical/touchforceoptical.shtml
"In sports games, when does the rumbling occur? The only sports game I can think of is football. Doesn't it usually occur during tackling?"
Soccor, Tennis, Vollyball, Golf, Basketball. Need I go on?
"So, do you need the rumble to tell you that the play is over and get ready for the next down?"
No, just to know how well you excecuted the play, connected with the ball, threw the javlena, etc, etc.
"Not to knock down on Engadget "reporters," they seem to be merely trying to fan the flame where there is no real fire because it's so "cool" to write negatively about companies like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo when they don't quite deliver 110% of what they promised. This is coming from the same "reporters" that wouldn't have a job without the market created by these companies, but I digress."
Everyone has the right to there own opion; including you:P
"Just to be clear, I'm not defending Sony or any other companies... ...Because it is so customary for people to take things for granted if some minor feature is missing, they think they are getting robbed and have to protest."
Minor?
Was the Delacration of Independance minor?
Was the moon landing minor?
Minor?
I think not.
"Personally, even if the accelerometers work only half as good as the ones used in wii controllers, I'd think the controllers would be much more useful than the ones with the rumble feature."
I disagree, but that's a fair statement.
Ideots! XBox360 has won! You Sony-poos have lost! I'm laughing at you as I enjoy my Xbox360 right now. Ho, ho!!! Your Sony is getting crapper by the day.
Before I start, I must say that I am neither a Sony nor Microsoft fanboy. I have owned both PS1 & PS2 consoles, and this year I even went ahead and bought the XBOX 360 to try out for myself. I couldn't stand listening to everybody else's BS opinion about both the XBOX 360 and PS3. Although I am not very happy with Sony's dumbass descisions lately, I am still planning on buying the PS3 to see what the buzz is all about.
I was not one of those people who disliked the boomerang shaped PS3 controller displayed at E3 2005. I actually wouldn't mind trying a more ergonomic Playstation controller. The current PS3 controller revealed at E3 2006 can give adult hands the cramps after prolonged gameplay. The current design of the PS3 controller seems to be perfect for smaller hands (ex: kids hands), but the target gaming audience Sony is targeting seems to be more adult. I've heard many people complain about the boomerang even before they were able to hold it in their own hands. A lot of people believed that the boomerang was too big, but other pictures of the boomerang revealed that it was in fact quite small. So when Sony announced they they changed their controller design back to something resembling the DualShock 2 design I was not very impressed. On top of that taking away force feedback, which is one of the standards of gaming controllers today, I just about flipped out. Few people may know this, but Sony wasn't the only one who took features away from their controller. The XBOX 360 controller no longer has analog buttons (pressure sensitve). The old XBOX controllers had this feature. I'm not sure why Microsoft would take this feature out of it's controllers. It might be because they copied Sony's design, but that's just speculation. I actually think that the XBOX 360 controller is quite comfortable. I wish Sony would keep the same layout of the buttons on their controller, and simply smooth out the retro contours. Giving us motion-sensing, now that's a plus, but should only be optional like the rumble was. Many gamer's would agree that they don't want to move their arms around too much, they would rather sit back and relax.
That's all for now. I have plenty more to say in a later post.
Sony's statement that vibration interferes with the motion sensor in their controller is pure BS. The Nintendo Wii has both motion sensing and ruble in the same controller. Sony just needs to find their own solution to make them both work together. Personally I would take rumble over motion-sensing, just because there are so many more games that use force feedback than they would motion-sensing.
Gamers experience their games through sight, sound, and feel. Taking away force feedback is like taking away the sense of touch. Sony says that vibration was technology of yesterday and that motion sensing is next gen. Well, the last time I checked, taking any features away from a product is digression.
I had high expectations for the PS3 after E3 2005 because of all the specs. After E3 2006 Sony has practically slashed their specs in half to save costs. Cost is probably the major reason Sony is also using the old mold of the PS2 controller, to save costs of not having to produce another new controller. Sony should have spent a little time and money in designing their own damn vibration technology. Seems like it didn't take all that long to come up with motion-sensing. It was more like an afterthought.
What's Sony going to tell me next, that my analog buttons are last-gen too! They better not take away pressure senitive buttons like Microsoft did with the XBOX 360, that's where I would draw the line. They can just kiss my rear end if that happens. For Sony to say that force-feedback is last-gen makes me think that they will never put force-feedback back into their controller. Sony would be commiting seppuku if that were the case. If Sony plans to implement vibration in later controller design they would be going agains their own statement that vibration is last-gen. Sounds like they are setting themselves up for failure if things keep going the way they are. I believe the company is loosing popularity with many of their dedicated buyers by pulling stunts like that. What if they do decide to put in vibration in the last second before november, then everone would be overjoyed, but Sony would be perceived as a company that can't make up it's mind. You have to come up with a plan and stick to it.
As far as the uses of force-feedback I could go on and on. Basically you can only benefit from it when used properly by developers. It adds an extra sense that emerses you in the game. It feels really good when you shoot a semi-automatic weapon in a FPS game, it would suck without. Vibration can notify FPS players that they are being shot in the back, Racers can feel when their cars tires are running slightly off the track and slowing the car down. Just about every game I've ever played has force-feedback and I would miss it the second it would be gone. Heck, I even noticed that the XBOX 360 controller no longer had pressure sensitive buttons. The only way I knew this was because I only played one game on the old XBOX like 2 years before I got my 360 that used the pressure sensitive buttons. The game was Dead or Alive. The DOA developers had to redesign the buttons moves for all of the fighters. Taking away force-feedback will not only take away from gamers, but from developers as well. Metal Gear Solid games have also made good use of the force-feedback. It always scares the crap out of me when you alert the enemy and the controller vibrates like crazy. Actually I think it's the loud sound and the giant exlamation points over the enemies heads that scares me more.
Sony, please don't take away force-feedback! You didn't even tell us that you were leaving the force feedback out during the E3 2006 press conference. You just said that you added the motion-sensing. Most people probably think that the controller still has force-feedback. I think the statement that the next controller wasn't going to have force-feedback was written in some sort of press-kit. Very sneaky Sony.
I needs my force-feed"back"
I like rumble a lot. It adds quite a bit to the gameplay experience. Is it absolutely necessary? Of course not, but it's definitely an improvement and leaving it out will be a big mistake. I'd have to imagine Logitech and other 3rd party manufacturers will fill the gap. You just need the software developers to support the feature.
This 600 dollar price tag has got to go. my dad is actually thinking about getting a gaming computer instead. PLEASE SOMEONE POST SOMETHING TO CHANGE HIS MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait..Just wait.. You know Sony, i know Sony they''l probably come up with a different idea that has the same rumble effect and call it "RealLife Effect" or something, and they'll produce the "SIXAXIS Dualshock 3". The Immersion suite is not for the effect but for the technology that Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo use,you know what that is? It's the little thingies that rotate inside the controller to make the rumble effect. Sony will find another way.