You know, for all the talk about those
greasy-hot,
overclockin'
MacBook Pros and their
mysterious firmware updates, only now has PCMag completed a full review of the 17-inch flavor MBP. Alas, you won't find any real surprises in the review of this "astounding" 6.8-pound, easy toting 17-incher. Yeah, it does indeed get "too hot" by the reviewers standards, though apparently not as hot as the 15-inch model due to larger surface area to dissipate heat. And since this is
PCMag, they installed
Boot Camp, as you'd expect, "without a hitch" giving them the same "impressive" (for a Mac) gaming results in XP seen on the 15-inch sib. The reviewer calls the move to the 17-inch MacBook Pro a "no brainer" if you're a creative professional working heavily in graphic design or movie editing. However, if you're just looking for a "cool multimedia laptop" with plenty of screen then there are plenty of Windows-only systems available giving more bang, for that $3,099 as-tested, buck. Yeah, Mac
fanboy enthusiasts, they're calling you out with that one. Still, PCMag slaps on a 4/5 editors rating which ain't too shabby, right?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
kibets @ May 24th 2006 8:57AM
god that is ugly!
Michael J @ May 24th 2006 8:58AM
Fix the heat problem and I'll buy one.
Hypertime @ May 24th 2006 9:00AM
Give the fanboy/enthusiast thing a fucking rest. It's obnoxious and about as witty as an overturned tractor trailer.
Spud @ May 24th 2006 9:04AM
Will you please shut the fuck up with the goddamn word, "FANBOY" already? It's tired. It's old and it's not funny. Shut up with the "witty" commentary and stick to being a fucking news site.
bc @ May 24th 2006 9:09AM
yes, umm its trackpad is the size of a thinkpad x60...
DM @ May 24th 2006 9:12AM
the witty commentary is what makes this site fun (most of the time, anyway)... so please continue on engadget :-)
[flame] and yea, who the hell other than a fanboy would buy this? look at that minature keyboard!!!! lolz [/flame]
Steven @ May 24th 2006 9:20AM
That has to be the worst picture I've ever seen.
Markus @ May 24th 2006 9:20AM
Let me tell you as a consultant working for a couple of ad agencys that the mac intel is the joke of the century perfromance wise, at least until adobe get their act together and update creative suite. The machines are practically useless for professional work since the hang every other minute or so if you try to work with more than one application at the time. My two cents if you have a power pc DO NOT upgrade until adobe release new versions.
bob @ May 24th 2006 9:22AM
"there are plenty of Windows-only systems available giving more bang, for that $3,099" - with a total lack of proof as usual, never mind the fact any equivalent doesnt have inovations such as mag-safe and back lit keyboard and motion sensor niceties
oshean @ May 24th 2006 9:22AM
Awwww, are some iChimps getting offended? T_T
Joel R @ May 24th 2006 9:22AM
Yeah... minature keyboard.... and it got a 4/5?
I have a 15 inch macbook pro that I picked up after 2 years using a Dell laptop. The keyboard seemed pretty similar in size.
Don't knock it till you've tried it.
twolf @ May 24th 2006 9:26AM
Any truth to the report that the Macs run WinXP faster than PC laptops?
Joel R @ May 24th 2006 9:26AM
Agreed. Adobe needs to get Photoshop for the Intel Macs, but I guess we're going to have to wait another 8 to 10 months. Fortunately, I had a PC copy of Photoshop 7, so I can work off the XP partition. I have been using Flash on the OS X partition and I've noticed some speed issues so far, but it's still very usable.
ohpoo @ May 24th 2006 9:35AM
Who would like to pay for a crappy laptop screen casing that bleeding twists after 3 months, and wont close - and crap internal design that leaves burn marks on your table... AND crap aftercare; that to be honest is so bad it's astonishing...
... all this can be your's for the inflated ridiclous price of 3 thousand BUX.
You could of course buy a PC laptop with more power for a Grand less, but what would your f*ggy friends say as white earphones hang out their ears like instruments of torture..!!
Long live Bill Gates!!!!!
Joel R @ May 24th 2006 9:36AM
Any word when an Intel "Macromedia" Suite will be released from Adobe?
Rusty @ May 24th 2006 9:37AM
WOW.......touched a nerve on the FANBOYS thing.
What an ugly looking computer.....If I were going
to pay that much, I'd want something I wasn't ashamed
of looking at. As for PC laptops not being tough...
I've carried my Dell 5100 for 2+ years in a rolling
tote bag, bouncing it off curbs, stairs etc....not
ONE problem.
Joel R @ May 24th 2006 9:39AM
"14. Who would like to pay for a crappy laptop screen casing that bleeding twists after 3 months, and wont close - and crap internal design that leaves burn marks on your table... AND crap aftercare; that to be honest is so bad it's astonishing...
... all this can be your's for the inflated ridiclous price of 3 thousand BUX.
You could of course buy a PC laptop with more power for a Grand less, but what would your f*ggy friends say as white earphones hang out their ears like instruments of torture..!!
Long live Bill Gates!!!!!"
Troll much?
Todd @ May 24th 2006 9:40AM
**APPLE FAN BOY ALERT!!! APPLE FAN BOY ALERT!!!**
A mac book Pro is $3099.99? On the apple website is says $1999.00. Thats pretty shocking that they are three grand.
James @ May 24th 2006 9:41AM
Joel R (#11), me thinks you missed the joke about the minature keyboard (or maybe I missed your's?). Is it a 50", or is is just a tiny keybord on a 17": http://anonym.jp/appleshop/img/img570_powerbook50top-small.jpg
Joel R @ May 24th 2006 9:44AM
"What an ugly looking computer.....If I were going
to pay that much, I'd want something I wasn't ashamed
of looking at."
This from a Dell laptop owner? I used a Dell latitude laptop for the last couple years before getting my Macbook. If you think a Dell laptop has a more attractive design than a Macbook... umm.... I guess that's your opinion. Although I would guess you load your Dell into your Aztec and drive off into the sunsett.
pableu @ May 24th 2006 9:46AM
@twolf
> Any truth to the report that the Macs run WinXP
> faster than PC laptops?
Couldn't imagine why. The hardware is the same as in any other Core Duo (Yonah) laptop, at least all the speed-influencing parts (cpu, ram, chipset).
ohpoo @ May 24th 2006 9:47AM
Troll much?
Posted at 9:39AM on May 24th 2006 by Joel R
HOW is that trolling??? I have had BAD experiences with Apple - and I am not blinded by the brand anymore - feels like I have been freed from an evil cult - blind devotion to second rate product and appaling aftercare...
How's it trolling - not allowed to post opinion are we? Especially if its negative toward Apple?? You tell me the rules Joel, and I'll then decide to stick to them - until then, kindly allow me my place to vent frustration and put forth my opinion in as dramatic fashion as I please.
Apple make poor products filled with PC parts but charge WAY over the odds. OSX is good and that's about it. I've had two Mac screens twist on me and they took them away for 2 months each - my point is - 3 GRAND on this, people dont know what they're letting themselves in for... one thing being burnt thighs!!
Joel R @ May 24th 2006 9:47AM
James.. ha, I hadn't seen that Photoshop gag. That is pretty funny.
Andy @ May 24th 2006 9:49AM
"..plenty of Windows only laptops available..."
There's the 'deal'-breaker, right there.
By the way, when did this site start getting written by pre-juvenile children ?
bob @ May 24th 2006 9:53AM
"Couldn't imagine why. The hardware is the same as in any other Core Duo (Yonah) laptop, at least all the speed-influencing parts (cpu, ram, chipset)."
apple make there own chipsets and motherboards, and use intels processors, they also use premium parts.
Ireland @ May 24th 2006 9:54AM
The main problems with PC's is you must use Windows & and you get viruses! I switched to Apple's system one year ago last week, and i've no viruses and can I say Mac OS X is a much better and a more user friendly Operating system. Before some one mentions fanboy, I was a 15 year Windows user.
Joel R @ May 24th 2006 9:57AM
OhPoo...
Maybe it was the part where you said "Long live Bill Gates!!!!!" I mean, comon'. I like my Macbook, but I'm not about to say "Love Live Steve Jobs!!". Or maybe it's the fact that you imply that every product Apple makes is going to have the same problems you must have encountered. It's like meeting one or two rude people from a certain country and assuming that EVERYONE from that country must be just as rude. Every product line ever created by every company is going to have some lemons. Anyway, enjoy your PC laptop. I'll be enjoying my Macbook.
Tom @ May 24th 2006 10:01AM
Did any of you guys check the link? PC magazine seems to think the "Acer Travelmate 8204WLMi" is the best looking lap top to date (as in ever). I terribly sorry to whoever wrote this review, but as a Windows user I am fully aware that the MacBook pro is miles better looking than that spacecraft. That what apple is know for more so than anything else.
Justin @ May 24th 2006 10:49AM
first off, i'm disgusted by the amount of people who ramble on about apple fanboys when they clearly don't present a better solution.
to the "industry professional" that says running popular industry software is a wash on a mac laptop, i'd love for you to re-read that story and see that the reviewer is dual booting, which means he could be using Adobe products via xp and testing it's output on the mac side of things. and you can still use FInal Cut on the mac for video editing.
phenostar @ May 24th 2006 10:52AM
OK, let's get this clear: Apple is in a TRANSITIONAL period right now. They've just completely revamped their entire product line. To expect absolute perfection at this point is completely unrealistic. And any person looking to spend more than $2500 on a Mac to do serious graphic design is a moron for going with anything other than a G5. The fact is that Apple still stands solidly behind every one of their products, no matter what. This Fanboy bullshit has gone too far. I used to think Engadget was better than this. These comments are starting to look a lot like Dumpalink's. Nobody is here to exchange useful information, everything's just degrading into a flame-war.
Damnit, now I gotta find a new homepage.
will chen @ May 24th 2006 10:59AM
You know, maybe Engadget editors are fucking tired of hearing that Engadget is anti-apple everytime they post an Apple link. Not to mention Apple fanboys suggesting that Engadget is sponsored by MS.
Hell, if they were sponsored, they wouldnt post links on how to make "backup" 360 games. But thats besides the point.
What exactly has Engadget done wrong? I don't really know how they can spin "Macbooks have a heat problem" to satisfy u fucking fanboys.
WTF @ May 24th 2006 11:08AM
Look at how jealous all the windows fanboys are. I can't believe you would even think a macbook is in the same league as a Dell. Goddamn losers need to get a mind of your own.
anon @ May 24th 2006 11:26AM
To Ohpoo :: You seem like a troll because you talked about hardware in your post and then concluded with a exclamation to Bill Gates. MS is strictly SW, so your post seems to be trolling (id est: trying to get a rise out of people).
BTW, that is very attractive machine. And the keyboard is full size, the same size as in every other Mac. The main difference being is that Apple doesn't add a numberpad like other 17" manufactures do.
Ultim8fury @ May 24th 2006 11:33AM
If everybody quit using the term fanboy it would be a start. It's not a word and it's overused on every site on the net. You say anything positive about any controversial company and before you know it one side or the other is calling you a fanboy. It is possible to like a product and to wish to defend your like or purchase of that product without being a fanboy. The crossed out editorial comment is clearly what has people annoyed as it was uncalled for.
To the guy who keeps twisting his screens. Have you considered it could be something you're doing. I have had my current G4 17" for 2 years and the screen is a straight as the day it was bought and it goes everywhere with me.
To the photoshop guy-ad agency guy. Sure if you want to run photoshop then upgrading won't make much sense, but there are thousands of people out there who don't need photoshop and their main productivity apps are already universal. They don't have the performance issues you quote. Recommending no one buy the product would also be counterproductive to yourself. If the is no demand then why would anyone bother to UB the app you want.
My rant is over.
Apple user NOT a fanboy.
SRD @ May 24th 2006 11:41AM
25. "Couldn't imagine why. The hardware is the same as in any other Core Duo (Yonah) laptop, at least all the speed-influencing parts (cpu, ram, chipset)."
apple make there own chipsets and motherboards, and use intels processors, they also use premium parts.
You really need to check your facts. Apple doesnt even make any hardware. they dont even make laptops asus makes some laptops for them and the ipods in the past. they only Make OSX. Their laptops are the same as any windows notebook. Only diff is they dont use a bios.
christine @ May 24th 2006 11:43AM
I agree w/ #8.
plus, what if I don't *want* to install XP on my MBP? I'm dying to get the 15" MBP but as a graphic designer, I'm screwed until Adobe updates their product lines.
an apple fanboy @ May 24th 2006 11:55AM
NO!!!!!!111!!!111!one! that's not rite! It should have got 7/5! it just that goooooood! the MBP doubles as a grill after a little usage so it really is the swiss army knife of laptops! sure it is alot of money, but that means that only the best get the best MBP!
Anyway, i got to go. my desk that my MPB is on top of just caught on fire... o well
Silver @ May 24th 2006 12:08PM
Recipe for ignorance: 1) post Apple-related story. 2) open the comments board to the ranting iHaters. 3) stir.
And Will Chen, I'm assuming you're taking the "when you don't have anything intelligent to add, throw in a couple of f*bombs and the word 'fanboy'" approach? Typical. Are you just bitter from having to look at your ugly ThinkPad all day?
And hearing a Dell owner opine about laptop cosmetics would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Disclaimer: I have a Compaq laptop. It has the build quality of a Chevy and looks just as bad. I'd take a MacBook Pro in a heartbeat if my employer would provide one.
DS @ May 24th 2006 12:10PM
I own a 17" macbook Pro. I got mine last week and have had ZERO overheating problems. Nice try Engadget.... bunch of M$ fangirls....
will chen @ May 24th 2006 12:19PM
"Are you just bitter from having to look at your ugly ThinkPad all day?"
Not really, i think its much sexier than the Macbook Pro. I think the Macbook Pro is tacky while my Thinkpad is sleek and conservative.
iHaters? Most of the time its a Mac user who steps in with an sense of "i get no viruses because i use a mac" ignorance.
And anyways, i dont understand why you're offended. I'm just calling out Apple fanboys who make up really outlandish shit about Engagdet. Maybe i should've mentioned that my Apple FANBOY comments weren't directed at all Apple users.
I was calling out fanboys... and i guess i succeeded.
J @ May 24th 2006 12:23PM
Why not start interchanging "fanboy" with the politically-correct "fangirl"? Or more appropriately, "fanperson".
ohpoo @ May 24th 2006 12:33PM
CORRECT - Apple does not make anything - to set the record straight open one up - nothing but PC parts / that's fine, but to the guy who believes Apples 'make premium parts' go back to sleep. Even the iPod is Samsung flash and a hunk o branded chunk under the hood.
NO; I did not twist the screens - Apple admitted fault.. and its not just me - just do a web search / its a common phenom; Apple laptop screens twist... and now they also catch fire it seems...
My point was, is and will always be - Apple is overpriced - OSX is the ONLY thing Apple do that I like - their branded hardware is bogus. Money will buy you more power in a PC - to the guy regarding viruses / fair point BUT Windows is targeted by hackers .. OSX isn't targeted as it has less than 8% world market share.
And to whoever the guy was who wet his nappies, spat his dummie and got in a tither over my "Long live Bill Gates" comment. Get a life man, cmon - just try... and get a life...
Apple is a brand that people associate so much with coolness and innovation, and I say well done to apple for misleading everyone in such a surefire fasion, but I love it when they release overpriced - poorly designed products - and muppets (i.e Apple "fans") still say they're great!! Incredible.
Fact is.. that Bill Gates does own Steve Jobs - I was purely joking but seeing as you brought it up... what does cool CEO S'Jobs do for charity? Awareness for third world relief and so on and so on, ya know big issues outside of the techcom world... Bill has a conscience (A social one - not a business one lol) and that was the point I was making masked by my comment...
I hope now I've explained - you can quit crying into your Macbook keyboards - not to fan the flames....... if you know what I mean.. ;)
Stevo @ May 24th 2006 12:35PM
Yeah, they (PCMag) really "called us out on that one," Thomas Ricker. "More bang for the buck" at that price tag on other Windows laptop models. Oh, except for one thing: those laptops run Windows. I believe I'll pass.
Kyle @ May 24th 2006 12:44PM
"Fact is.. that Bill Gates does own Steve Jobs - I was purely joking but seeing as you brought it up... what does cool CEO S'Jobs do for charity? Awareness for third world relief and so on and so on, ya know big issues outside of the techcom world... Bill has a conscience (A social one - not a business one lol) and that was the point I was making masked by my comment..."
A CEO's job is not to donate to charity or have a concience... it is to make a good return for the shareholders in a legal and ethical manner. Donating to charity doesn't make your product better.
Apple may be a bit overpriced, but people are still buying it, so something is obviously working well. You may be able to buy a little faster PC for the same money, but I believe apple does use higher quality parts and I have had nothing but great things from apple.
Anyone saying "long live Bill Gates" is the one who needs to get a life... don't go taking everything else I said personally, but you can take that personally because I don't think many people will disagree that you need to get a life if you're saying that.
Happy Phantom @ May 24th 2006 12:45PM
Instead, I think I'll get a maxed-out Mac Mini, Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse, and an Apple or Viewsonic 23" LCD monitor. $2000.00.
If I need another laptop, I'll just get a 12" PPC Powerbook at clearance or a refurb. I don't think I need another laptop.
Silver @ May 24th 2006 12:50PM
Will, a ThinkPad is "sleek" like a Pontiac Aztek is sleek (shout out to Joel R on that one). And sexier than a MBP? Whatever turns you on. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can't really argue taste. (Some people do drive Azteks and like them, so there you go).
Oh, and FYI, I've NEVER had a virus on any of my Macs. Or spyware. Sue me. But I do get to clean plenty of spyware off my Windows-using friends' and relatives' computers. So who's the ignorant one here? My mother-in-law bought a Mac mini after I told her I would no longer clean up her Windows spyware issues. Guess that makes her a stupid fanboy, er, fangirl too.
If you want to talk ignorance, look at all the idiot posts on every Engadget story about Apple's "overpriced" and "underpowered" stuff that is bought by "mindless sheep" who have their "heads up Steve Jobs' butt." Unintelligent drivel, 99% of which likely come from people who have never honestly used a Mac in their lives. (Note: I own and use both constantly. I know which is better. I know which is worth my dollars. I'm not just spouting misinformed nonsense.)
I was calling out ignoramuses...and I guess I succeeded.
Jeff Lewis @ May 24th 2006 12:51PM
A couple of points:
The photo they posted is definitely NOT a flattering one. The MacBook Pro looks much nicer than the photo shows it to be.
Mac are still overpriced and it gets worse the higher up the ladder you get. The 17" MacBook Pro (at per the US Apple site as of the time of this post) is US$2799 stock. If you up the memory to 2GB, it jumps to US$3099.
While the MacBook Pro does come with a few extras, like backlit keyboard, magnetic latch, tilt sensor - many of these can be found in PC laptops as well. On the other hand, you can get PC laptops that are very comparable to Macs in terms of general configuration for much less (as much as $1500 less) and many include other kinds of extras, such as TV tuners and media readers. It becomes a matter of 'what you want for what you're willing to pay'.
The idea that Macs have 'special magic hardware that makes them better than PCs' has never really been true, but if it ever was, it's definitely not true now. Most of the parts in a Mac are stock PC parts - the same ones used by PC makers. The Macs are even BUILT by PC makers.
MacBooks are manufactured by Asus. Do you really believe Asus make Macs better than they make their own Asus branded laptops?
As for viruses: welcome to the most overhyped issue in the Mac/PC wars. Yes, there are a lot of viruses for the PC. Yes, there are few for the Mac (FEW - not none - and the number of viruses and exploits grow as the Mac gains popularity again). However, anyone who takes even the most trivial amount of precaution lives virus free. I have five PCs, two of which are online 24/7, and I've never had a virus. Let me repeat that for those who aren't listening: five PCs - two online and running 24/7 - NEVER HAD A VIRUS.
This is pure 'threatmongering'.
Which brings us to the core issue. Yes, Engadget should resist the Mac fanboy comments. For one thing, it's not necessary - even if they write a perfectly clean, straight Mac review, the Mac zealots will be in there nitpicking every perceived slight with the vigor of a Tom Cruise defending Scientology.
But at the same time, perhaps the Mac fans will realise that their own... ahem... enthusiasm may be the cause of the bad will that encourages Engadget and others to snipe? Not to mention Apple's ad campaigns that, rather than promoting the benefits of Macs over PCs, seem to prefer showing PCs and PC users in very negative lights in order to make Macs look good.
The current ads are so biased and demeaning - and so artlessly done in that respect - that most PC users just laugh and dismiss it as ads to keep Mac users feeling smug as opposed to an ad to get people to buy Macs.
Walt Mossburg as one of the most respected tech writers indeed... that was a kneeslapper.
Shunnabunich @ May 24th 2006 12:52PM
- Could there be any possibility that they searched for the grainiest, ugliest 17" MBP picture they could find?
- I have a 17" PowerBook G4, which is exactly the same in terms of case design except for the iSight and IR hole. The keyboard size is just fine, it's not small or anything — although, as #34 mentioned, I would've liked this extra space to be used by a number pad.
- I second everything Ultim8fury said in #35. Please read it again. I bought a PowerBook because I preferred it over Windows-based alternatives at the time, and guess what? I still prefer it. There's nothing holding me back from switching back to Windows — there's a PC running XP just to the right of my PowerBook — so I can't be called a fanboy, meaning *gawsp* I switched out of my own volition! Not because of some made-up "peer pressure" or "cliché" thing (only one of my friends is a Mac user), but because I looked at both sides and chose the one I believed (rightly) would work better for MY needs.
- Since Apple doesn't allow Mac OS X to be legally run on anything other than a Mac, the OS does make a difference when comparing PC and Mac laptops IMHO.
- Authors of Engadget, as you can see, all of one person finds your tired buzzphrases, used only for the sake of using them, funny or even remotely appealing anymore. If it's not too much to ask, please commit to writing at a maturity level befitting people of your age, or, if you find that unreasonably difficult, at least leave any pretense of professionalism at the door.
Jeff Lewis @ May 24th 2006 12:58PM
"Oh, and FYI, I've NEVER had a virus on any of my Macs. Or spyware. Sue me. But I do get to clean plenty of spyware off my Windows-using friends' and relatives' computers."
Actually, two of the ten Mac owners I know have had trojans on their Macs - and they're pretty savvy computer users. (It was interesting to watch them admit it...) On the other hand, none of the PC users I know have had viruses, including my father, who's 84 years old, isn't terribly computer savvy and has his computer online 24/7 as well.
Your mileage may vary.
Are there more viruses for PCs? Yep. It's the system virus writers target. As the Mac becomes more popular, or as virus writers take the 'we have no viruses because MacOS X is unbreakable' challenge to heart, the number will rise.
Silver @ May 24th 2006 12:59PM
"Bill has a conscience (A social one - not a business one lol)"
Holy smokes, what a load! This Bill Gates - Philanthropist vs. Steve Jobs - Narcissist garbage has been overplayed in the press so much it's comical. Do you get your talking points from Microsoft's PR website or what?
Let's see, become the world's richest man by shamelessly ripping off the ideas of others and illegally (proven in court) driving your competitors under, then proclaim yourself a saint by donating a small percentage of those ill-gotten gains in a highly-visible way to get good press for your otherwise hated company? Riiiight.
Guess what - I donate more than 10% of my gross income to charitable causes every year too. Quick, somebody toss me a Nobel prize!