Sources confirm Microsoft's work on iPod/iTMS rivals

Remember those "cringingly blurry" photos we published a few weeks back that supposedly depicted Microsoft's long-rumored iPod-killer? Well it looks like our tipster may have been right on the money with his assessment, as Reuters is reporting that "sources familiar with the plans" have confirmed that Redmond is indeed working on a portable media player, along with an iTunes-like service to feed it content. Although the informants didn't give much info on the hardware (none at all, really), the service is apparently looking to differentiate itself from the iTMS by encouraging users to hang out and community-build (how Web 2.0), and while it will offer a subscription option a la other PlaysForSure-powered sites, the main focus will be on the pay-per-download model. A Microsoft-branded service may come as a bit of a surprise to some folks considering past licensing issues the company's had with the labels, along with its recent involvement in launching MTV's Urge, but we know at least one person who's seen this coming all along.

P.S. Not that this helps you out much, but we can say that we actually caught a glimpse of whatever this device is, and so far, we like what we see.

[Bootes @ Jun 16th 2006 2:07PM]

Uhm, I thoght MS made their own music store months ago? Just nobody used it, like everyone other than the iTunes one.

[CC @ Jun 16th 2006 2:19PM]

Good! I'm sick of IPODS! The only thing you can count on IPODs for is to break down. I've gone through 3 of them and just about all my friends has had problems with them. Do me a favor go into any Apple store and you will see a long line of people repairing the ipod.

[Bootes @ Jun 16th 2006 2:20PM]

For example http://music.msn.com/album/?album=48699239

I like the Continental Airlines ad about free iTunes music that was on the page for me. :)

[Jason @ Jun 16th 2006 2:20PM]

Hmmm. I like the iTunes/iPod solution but am curious as to what features, functionality, and usability traits it would take to actually "kill" the iPod. I'm not sure it is possible unless Apple does something really stupid...and I don't see that happening either.

For now, I'll treat this as pre-emptive marketing by Microsoft.

[Mike @ Jun 16th 2006 2:21PM]

No doubt this wont be a 30/60gb device so im not interested...

[James @ Jun 16th 2006 2:32PM]

Microsoft is wasting their time. Look what happened to the Sony Walkman.

[scott @ Jun 16th 2006 2:40PM]

is it me, or does that device look really big? as joe consumer, i'm not looking for an mp3 device the size of the old hp ipaq 54xx series, are you?

as for specs and other unsubstantiated comments:

what is the likelihood of this running some kind of stripped down mce for the os?

music discovery tech = pandora tie-in?

while it would never happen, it would be cool if by discovery, they meant bt-enabled devices where you could sniff nearby devices and sample songs on said player. then again, it seems like there must be some reason for that antenna, so maybe there will be some interesting networking options.

[dweebe @ Jun 16th 2006 2:43PM]

...and I'm sure you'll be locked into using WMA.

[Chris Clark @ Jun 16th 2006 2:45PM]

The iPod has been dominant for what, 3 years or so now? Why are companies still trying to create the iPod killer? Whether or not you like the iPod, isn't it basically inevitable that it's going to remain the dominant market leader no matter what. It's already been engrained in culture to the point where everyone knows what an iPod is, and looks like.

There has been a few that are near the quality of the iPod (Creative players) but it seems at this point that the iPod has become the Walkman of this generation. I'm surprised that the name iPod hasn't begun being used as a generic term to mean "mp3 player".

Whether other companies like it or not, the race is over. The best they can hope for is a respectable 2nd or 3rd. That's just my opinion though.

[Jeff @ Jun 16th 2006 2:57PM]

News flash: the mp3 player war is over. Apple won. Get over it.

In 20+ years, when the next new thing comes along and we all view portable compressed music as passe, then maybe someone else will take the throne of whatever new category of device that is.

But right now, this is exactly the same thing as when all those portable tape player makers were trying to dethrone the Walkman in the 1980's. They all claimed the war wasn't over too. Nope, sorry, wrong. The war was over almost as soon as it started. The Walkman - nee Discman - nee CD Walkman - even survived the shift to digital formats. What finally did the line in was the shift away from physical media. It will take a similar quantum shift to dethrone Apple in portable music. Nobody's going to make exactly the same kind of device and do anything to budge Apple's market share, however good it is.

As for the device in the photo above... BROWN? You've got to be kidding me.

Oh, btw, I downloaded WMP 11 to take a look at MTV's Urge, and guess what? It won't load. I just get a blank screen, every time. If this is what MS has in store for consumers, their work's cut out for them.

[Raaaaah @ Jun 16th 2006 2:58PM]

"I'm surprised that the name iPod hasn't begun being used as a generic term to mean "mp3 player"."

Haha. Actually, I've come across many people that believe there are iPods and then there are MP3 players.

Example:
1: "Do you have an MP3 player?"
2: "Naaah. I have an iPod."

I've noticed this trend mostly with people in the UK.

[Steve @ Jun 16th 2006 3:01PM]

Is it just me, or does that thing have a stubby antenna? I guess this could indicate a satellite radio tie-in, possibly with recording to the HDD a la Pioneer Inno.

On the other hand, it could indicate a tie in with a mobile provider. The device may not double as a cell phone, but it may be tied in to one of the carrier's network and MS and the carrier splits the profit on the music downloads... This way MS and the carriers both get back in the game at the same time.

Or probably not.

[Kathygnome @ Jun 16th 2006 3:01PM]

Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. The big advantage they have is the subscription services, they should be pushing those.

[greatslack @ Jun 16th 2006 3:07PM]

I'm pretty sure this is going to be a mp3 player + cellphone, at the least. If MS can manage to squeeze a hard drive and a music player in one device of reasonable size, I can see this definitely killing the ipod. why carry around 2 gadgets when you can have one that replaces them both? Bill Gates has said this many times, that people don't want to carry around a bunch of different devices, although he also said something about creating a device that would do all this AND replace the wallet, but I think that's a while down the road.

[Sasha S. @ Jun 16th 2006 3:11PM]

iPod is a part of an eco system consisting of iPod-iTunes-iTunesMusicStore. So every company that is attempting to defeat Apple must come with a significantly better eco-system of their own. That is not impossible - but rather very very very difficult indeed to begin with.

On top of that - Apple is a media darling and is a synonym for hip and cool, has a CEO who has charisma of a rock star and has firm footing in the media industry.

And to add some more problems: Microsoft is very good in what they normally do - but I doubt that they know what media business really is all about. Apple negotiates with the labels directly - while Microsoft must use an intermediary (therefore MTV is a partner in Urge service).

My business radar says that there is no way Microsoft can win this one unless they add something significantly different that Apple could not match and only thing I can think of is giving good MP3 players away for free (and not some cheap ones) - kinda like subsidising mobile phones through subscription. However that would require labels to surrender part of their profits and that will not happen.

Last but not the least, lets not forget the video offering of iTunes Music Store and a whole podcasting thing. Those are additional drivers and as yet unmatched by any offering of Apple competitors (unmatched as a integrated digital eco-system - super easy to use and tightly integrated).

In my opinion there is only one company that has potential to compete with Apple and that is Sony. Before you start flaming me - the key word here is POTENTIAL. If a Sony gets a charismatic CEO who manages to turn all aspects of the company around (media AND hardware business) - then maybe, just maybe they could be a competition. They do have a strong tradition of good consumer electronic design, they could buy a couple of software companies to make iTunes rival and they do have significant media business so they could subsidize free (or very very cheap) mp3 players.

However, Sony has become a very schizophrenic company with internal struggles and clashes of interests rendering it effectively paralyzed in the area of digital music.

Just my €0,02

[Jboy001 @ Jun 16th 2006 3:13PM]

that "stubby antenna" looks like a headphone plug to me

[bd @ Jun 16th 2006 3:15PM]

Is that an Antenna or the headphone Hack?

It looks like a cord trailing away behind it... but then again, this is the blurriest.image.ever.

[Sketcha77 @ Jun 16th 2006 3:18PM]

I'm betting this has something to do with the Alexandria project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDjToIt_OOE

At the end of the video, it says coming Summer 2006. The digital music/video battle is just beginning. Just because Apple has a great lead doesn't mean other companies shouldn't try!!!

[dave95 @ Jun 16th 2006 3:21PM]

Read all about it, Redmond is coming! Redmond is coming! Again!

But wait wasn't WMP 11 supposed to be the answer to iTunes with URGE and it's iTunes inspired likable buttons.

[Steve @ Jun 16th 2006 3:22PM]

>> that "stubby antenna" looks like a headphone plug to me

I went back through the other blurry photos, and yes, I think you're right - it is just the headphone jack - my bad.

[billflu @ Jun 16th 2006 3:27PM]

Looks like a viral marketing campaign to me.

[rgk-nyc @ Jun 16th 2006 3:28PM]

i think there can be an iPod killer...but i don't think it will be MS. i believe that Sony Ericsson has already beaten everyone to the punch...

i have had an iPod, Sony NW-HD, and now an SE W810. Not having to carry around a cell and an mp3? That is the ticket. It is true freedom and the quality is just getting better...

when the w950i comes out...iPod will have something to deal with...touchscreen and 4GB flash with a GSM phone in a super sleek package?

[Juaquin @ Jun 16th 2006 3:38PM]

For those who say the war of the MP3 players is over, I would tend to agree - with one exception. Apple doesn't cut it for advanced users. It doesn't offer high-quality audio (the most important feature for me in an AUDIO player), lacking support for codecs like FLAC. iTMS doesn't even offer Apple's own poor version of loseless audio. It lacks important features like line-in recording that come standard on higher-quality players. And of course, who can forget Apple's lockdown DRM?

The war of the MP3 players may be over for your standard consumer. But for those who have more needs than substandard audio and the need to fit in, Apple is far from victory.

[Wanax @ Jun 16th 2006 3:39PM]

"News flash: the mp3 player war is over. Apple won. Get over it.

In 20+ years, when the next new thing comes along and we all view portable compressed music as passe, then maybe someone else will take the throne of whatever new category of device that is."

Circa 1994...
News flash the video game war is over. Nintendo won. Get over it.

Try telling that to Sony.

Nothing is guaranteed in life. People are a fickle. I for one will never buy an ipod (I bought my first mp3 player years before Ipods even existed) because like lemmings, everyone seems to have one and ITMS is useless to me. I'd rather rip my music into high bitrate songs then to listen to that compressed crap.

[zed @ Jun 16th 2006 3:40PM]

I thought they already provide some sort of iTMS killer thing? And again, and again? Oh, but this time, it's with a 5 lbs music player that takes almost two hands to hold! WE HAVE A WINNER!

[Chris @ Jun 16th 2006 3:40PM]

What about Microsoft's Origami project that has yet to come to fruition after they hyped it up. And Vista is still somewhere on the horizon.

One thing I love about Apple (despite the anticipation) is that they go out of there way to keep new products secret. When they do announce them they are usually available that very day. MS, on the other hand, will hype the fuck out of their products and you never know if and when you'll see them.

[JimD @ Jun 16th 2006 4:01PM]

To Juaquin,

All you have to do is copy the songs directly from the CD without any conversion. The iPod DOES support .aiff.

To all you nay-sayers....iPod haters, etc. DON'T USE ONE THEN. Especially the guy that went through 3 of them....what, it took you 3 times? I still have my original 1G iPod (5 gig) and it's still running.

[tf @ Jun 16th 2006 4:01PM]

It seems that everyone forgets that Apple does continue to work and the iPod does evolve... By "coming", I bet we are talking about a "launch" conference in 4-6 months with the device, service, software not being available until post-Vista launch, i.e. Feb-April at best... 8 months away at best.

Does anyone really think that Apple is not testing and developing wireless iPods right now? That the underbaked MusicGremlin will remain unique? Apple will still have the best and largest music and video (short form) store, and when 802.11n is approved Apple is ready to jump all over the expanded capabilities with the new wireless "standard" (let's hope it gets there). This next leap in technological capability will also require a good, user-friendly software experience. Apple is most likely to provide that earliest: Bonjour is already a pleasure in iTunes when you're in a network, Apple already has numerous patents, they have the leverage with studios to allow the broadest "sharing" while still limiting the capabilities but making the users happy, they have the software advantage (in that they are good at it but particularly in that they have the closed, vertical model already), etc...

When Apple releases the Wireless iPod in the next year or more, it will be a more significant leap than the Video iPod in terms of capabilities, services, profits, etc... Video Capabilities will be ubiquitous, but wireless will be a standout killer feature.

[jabbertrack @ Jun 16th 2006 4:03PM]

I'm looking forward to it.

Unlike Apple/iPod fanboys all I want is more options. I could care less if my brand of choice 'WINS' over another brand.

Someone else is making a decent effort, and I personally am tired of the iTunes music store after having spent $400+ there.

Urge is a silly name, but if it can offer me a similar selection and improve on some of the weak sauce 'album only' songs as well as deliver on that community thing... then I'll give them some of my money.

[tf @ Jun 16th 2006 4:05PM]

Also, it's interesting how Microsoft is willing to step into the same antitrust issues again: try to create a platform, the platform develops numerous businesses but they are all faltering, Microsoft steps into the business for which they are trying to create a platform for after entering several different business relationships and claiming they've created a fair playing field... Can they do it without giving themselves an advantage? Didn't they already give Urge an advantage? Etc...

[Jacob Varghese @ Jun 16th 2006 4:24PM]

Is the iPod as we know it going to die off soon? Yes, of course it is. Technology changes everyday and so do people's tastes. But if Apple creates a compelling product they can keep and grow the customer base. In terms of features, Apple's iPod development moves very slow, but so does the majority of users out there. Apple's iPod isn't for the cutting edge tech users. It's for everyday users who want an easy to use product. Why do you guys keep arguing about this???

I'm a tech geek as much as anyone else, but I just hate the bashing of apple, microsoft, creative....

[Matt @ Jun 16th 2006 4:30PM]

I love how everyone says that the iPod has won the mp3 player war, and no one should try and break in. Try telling the same people that Windows has won the OS war, and that Apple should give up, and see what they say.

[MegaMe @ Jun 16th 2006 5:03PM]

My wife and I own 6 iPods.

Six. Why I point this out?

Never had a problem with one of them. I did change the battery myself in our original 5 gig iPod. But big deal.

You guys who complain that the iPod breaks down are transparent; you are Microsoft puppets and hate all things Apple. So you make stuff up.

Now to be fair, I hate most things Microsoft. So I guess we are both biased.

[Chris @ Jun 16th 2006 5:31PM]

"Apple's iPod isn't for the cutting edge tech users."

Since when?

[Torontoguy @ Jun 16th 2006 5:39PM]

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any technical advance that will knock the iPod out of the hearts of the buying public. People have always been rather dense and have little idea of what is a superior technology.
Back in the early days of recording, Edison developed a recording technology based on 'hills and valleys'...that is the phonograph's needle moved up and down rather than vibrating sideways (as the Victor company did) on the Victrola.
Edison used cylinders and the Victrola used disks.
Edison was sure that his technology would capture the buying public because it was easier to produce recordings at home (and had greater fidelity) than the Victrola's disks BUT the public had no interest in making home recordings. They wanted to hear the 'pop-stars' of the day in spite of the fact that the sound quality was inferior, the disks were more prone to scratching and damagg.
What sealed the market for the Victrola was the size. They managed to take the large sound horn and mount it inside the record player cabinet...even though it made the sound even poorer...the public loved it...because it was small and 'cute'.
It just goes to show, nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the buying public...in fact...make it really bad but 'cute' and they will flock to you.

[Tim @ Jun 16th 2006 5:59PM]

I like my Sandisk Sansa m240 just fine. I think itunes and ipods suck because they dont offer subscription-style services/support.

Why pay 15 bucks for 15 songs when I can pay 15 bucks for almost 15,000 (3 minute song length 24/7/30, 14,400 songs)?

It's just plain stupid to buy music the old way. Subscription is the only way to go. You listen to what you want, when you want, with very little restriction. Unless you're stuck in the stone age and feel the need to burn CDs there's really no good reason to buy music at a buck a pop.

[cc @ Jun 16th 2006 6:04PM]

I keep caving and buying iPods (on my 4th) even though they break. They do have a sweet interface and nice storage. And a great feel.

Apple's support is horrendous. If only they treated iPods the way IBM (and now Lenovo) treated Thinkpads. I couldn't get an appointment in Apple's SoHo store -- where I bought it -- without paying $100 for a VIP card, even though my iPod was in warranty. They said alternatively I could keep showing up random days until they finally had time. What crap.

Also, I've still not gotten my iPod battery settlement from the class action lawsuit they lost 18 months ago. So damn cheap.

[Chris @ Jun 16th 2006 6:05PM]

""Apple's iPod isn't for the cutting edge tech users."

Since when?"

Since it came out.

[mike @ Jun 16th 2006 6:38PM]

I'm surprised that the name iPod hasn't begun being used as a generic term to mean "mp3 player"

--

if you went outside, you might.. see that it is.. it's one of the reasons so many PC users are buying iPods.. they.. just assume it's the only one to get... kinda like.. Windows?

[Space @ Jun 16th 2006 7:07PM]

Ok, my turn! Here's why I'm pissed at mucrosoft. They don't try and support their devices for the long term. I have a 1 year old ipaq with sd slot, CF, wifi, BT, etc. It has windows mobile 5.0 and it's drm compatable. I play music and video's on it all the freaking time yet the only thing I can buy to put on it is microsoft's music from their crappy stores that never work! It would be so easy for microsoft to let people download videos that would be playable on Pocket Pc's but they don't do it! It really pisses me off that they are just going to develope some new device. I just spent 400 dollars I'm not doing it again dumb ass! I want an all in one device yet they apparently think I want to carry a pda plus a retarded portable media center POS since that is the only thing you can play microsoft's limited video's on. They are so behind the curve. Only reason i haven't gotten an Ipod video yet is because it doesn't have an fm tuner and like i said i'd like an all in one device!

[PodThis @ Jun 16th 2006 7:12PM]

to the guy with the 6 frickin ipods. look at the past ones in each generation and tell me you dont look at them with disgust and think... GEE why didnt the PREVIOUS one have this feature?? when you just shelled out 300 bucks for about each iPod...

[tatltat @ Jun 16th 2006 7:21PM]

LIVE ANYWHERE???

[nycnigel @ Jun 16th 2006 7:45PM]

One word COWON. who wants an apple or microsoft device that is to be honest limited in options and open source.

[till @ Jun 16th 2006 7:47PM]

"Only reason i haven't gotten an Ipod video yet is because it doesn't have an fm tuner and like i said i'd like an all in one device!"

maybe its time you bought an ipon video you can get a radio tuner accessory check it out - http://www.apple.com/ipod/accessories.html

[Vince @ Jun 16th 2006 8:06PM]

It's true, the PMP, and probably PMP war is over. At this point, only Apple can "kill" the iPod. The iPod is a quality product, but let's face it, it's not about quality anymore. Better products will come and go, but it will be pretty much impossible for the best and cheapest of them to displace the iPod in terms of its consumer awareness. The people that have libraries of iTunes Music Store purchased songs will likely stick with compatible devices for at least the next several years. That gives Apple an installed base that's motivated to buy their new products. You can say it's much like how Microsoft became the dominant OS (which, even the mighty Steve Jobs acknowledged years ago).

But, like Apple as a computer company, the makers of other PMPs, PVP, and download services can still be quite profitable without the need to displace Apple. So basically: iPod owners, congratulations, you have a good product. iPod haters, congratulations, there are other good products to buy.

[Jasafar @ Jun 16th 2006 10:24PM]

Microsoft should buy YouTube and allow for all of the videos to be downloaded to the device!

[marshak @ Jun 16th 2006 11:08PM]

looks like a palm pilot kinda thing with enchanced audio capabilities. and if thats what it is (windows mobile anyone?) with a price to beat the ipod, ill buy one.

[tech guy @ Jun 16th 2006 11:44PM]

What do you do with 6 iPods? Of course your 6 iPods don't break because you never use them. Maybe you grew some extra ears so you could listen to more than one at a time.

[w.t.f @ Jun 17th 2006 12:32AM]

nice one engadget, since when have you stopped leaking top secret information, you caught a glimpse? do tell....

[Peter McCaffrey @ Jun 17th 2006 12:58AM]

it is not an antenna on the top (doesn't mean it couldn't be built in ofc).

check out one of the original pics:

http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/06/microsoft-ipod-08.jpg

clearly just a headphone plug.