In what would seem to be a 180-degree reversal from last week's
vehement denials concerning the Daily Mail's
"iPod City" exposé, Hon Hai Precision Industry's Foxconn factory has now come forward to admit that it has indeed been in violation of Chinese labor laws. Even though the company -- which was accused of underpaying and overworking employees -- had initially threatened to take legal action over the story, ChinaCSR is now reporting that a Foxconn spokesperson has publicly copped to the fact that its workers are forced to be on duty an extra 80 hours a month, which is 44 more hours of overtime than Chinese regulations allow (or 1.5 to 2 extra hours per day depending on the length of their work week). On the plus side, company representative Li Zong did point out that the workers are being paid according the minimum salary standards of the Shenzhen local government, so at least all those extra hours will help them maintain the highest standard of living for the scant amount of free time they get to spend in their overcrowded dormitories (supposedly pictured above). We realize that a lot of people are arguing that it's not fair to single out Apple when this is an industry-wide problem, but the fact of the matter is that Apple
has been called out, and this new revelation only makes it that much more important for the company to conduct its
promised investigation in a thorough and open manner.
Update: It should also be noted that the ChinaCSR article quotes Li as saying that "Apple has sent a special team to investigate, but has found no problem with Foxconn." While it's not clear when this investigation took place, we're hoping that Apple has more to say on the matter, because it sounds more than a little shady if Cupertino gave Foxconn the thumbs-up while these admitted violations were occuring.
[Via
The Inquirer]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
TheChaz @ Jun 26th 2006 11:34AM
Wow. They violated _Chinese_ labor laws. That takes some doing.
GhostDoggy @ Jun 26th 2006 11:34AM
sweatPod?
David @ Jun 26th 2006 11:37AM
You guys missed this particularly relevant tidbit from the article:
"Foxconn's PR then made life worse for Apple by saying that a team from the Cupertino based outfit had investigated its operations and given it the thumbs up."
Ex Apple @ Jun 26th 2006 11:37AM
Soon after Steve Jobs came back to Apple, he said in an internal communications meeting he aspired for Apple to be the Nike of the computer industry.
I guess he is finally getting there, sweat shops and all...
Naman @ Jun 26th 2006 11:41AM
Before all you anti-globalists and living wage advocates start gloating, just remember that any real action on this will probably result in an increase in the price of iPods. Enjoy your gloating now, because you won't be when you're forced to pay 100 bucks more for that iPod next Xmas.
Dogger @ Jun 26th 2006 11:48AM
Thats pretty ignorant, Victor. It's an ethical misstep on Apple's behalf, regardless of which country the actual product is assembled.
Mike @ Jun 26th 2006 11:49AM
You want a REAL eye opener? Rent (or buy) Robert Grenwald's documentary "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price"
They bring camera INSIDE factories and living quarters in China and other far east countries. It will blow your mind. In some cases, the living conditions make the picture above look "nice."
What happens is that the companies visit sites where their work is SUPPOSEDLY being performed, which looks nice, clean, and modern. All employees are told of the visit and coached (sometimes under threat of bodily harm) not to tell the truth.
Meanwhile, the work is really being done in sweatshops in the countryside. The governments often know this occurs, but does nothing to stop it.
http://www.walmartmovie.com/
Karl @ Jun 26th 2006 11:49AM
Yeah, that's the cool thing about making a living. You only have to do it if you want to survive.
Richard @ Jun 26th 2006 11:51AM
Oh boo hoo hoo – cry me a freakin’ river.
They are FREE TO LEAVE anytime they want to. They are not kept against their free will by armed guards that will shoot them is they escape. If they want to work a little extra every month, then so be it. Personally, I work 12 – 14 hours a day sometimes, if not more, so they should have the same freedom.
Todd @ Jun 26th 2006 11:53AM
I hate to say I-told-you-so to all the haters that flamed me after I commented on the original story, and who defended the so-called "income is proportionate to cost of living" b.s.
shon @ Jun 26th 2006 11:56AM
EVEN IF they are FREE TO LEAVE or "want" (read NEED) to work like that, it dosent ahve antyhing to do with the fact they get paid less than peanuts.. they need to work that much to help their family.. probably even frikkin eat! Apple MAY NOT beaware, but even if they are, they deffinitely arent the only ones using these camps. like engadget states, theyve been called out, now lets have that promised investigation.
ThinkDifferent @ Jun 26th 2006 12:02PM
"Who gives a ****, if the chinese people want to work like that, then let them. They aint forced to work there right?
Oh boo hoo hoo – cry me a freakin’ river. "
Red Alert... iBots to battle stations! Defend God Jobs at all costs...
daschupa @ Jun 26th 2006 12:03PM
Man I think everyone is shocked; China has labor laws?
hiroo @ Jun 26th 2006 12:05PM
Well, in china, "less than peanuts" goes a long way. That's why you american tourists have such a good time in china and other developing world.
n8diggity @ Jun 26th 2006 12:07PM
This morning on NPR there was a story about blue-jeans headed for the US being manufactured in Jordan where people were being forced to work, their passports confiscated. They are actually considered Slaves!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5510902
Nasty business-
weatherman @ Jun 26th 2006 12:23PM
Victor, Richard: The thing you need to keep in mind that the best way to keep jobs in America is to support labor rights abroad. Buy American or buy fair-trade or you're just encouraging a race to the bottom.
Craig @ Jun 26th 2006 12:28PM
Someone's gonna lose a contract or two now...
consumer_q @ Jun 26th 2006 12:35PM
"They are FREE TO LEAVE anytime they want to. They are not kept against their free will by armed guards that will shoot them is they escape."
Perhaps they are free to go in that particular factory, but in many overseas factories (and by may, I mean a whole hell of a lot) - especially in the garment industry - this is not the case. Hell, even in the USofA there are indentured slaves churning out "Made in America" clothing.
"he aspired for Apple to be the Nike of the computer industry - I guess he is finally getting there, sweat shops and all..."
Ha! So true. But I am willing to bet that now that Apple has been called out on it that they will be a little more thorough in checking out their factories.
Demand Justice @ Jun 26th 2006 12:36PM
You are being absurd, "thinkdifferent"
In a country in which poverty runs rampant and job opportunities scarce, these people truly do not have a choice. It's either prostitution in the slum alleys of inner city China, or perhaps sharecropping (which is also akin to slave-labor) in the rice fields of China. My suggestion is either an enlightened trip to the country to witness living conditions first hand, or perhaps some serious reading. People, DO YOUR RESEARCH before posting commentary. These are serious issues that warrant careful thought.
Anthony @ Jun 26th 2006 12:44PM
I'm surprised so many of you don't support the Chinese laborers.
They very likely *are* being forced to work & *don't* have other real options.
Remember Wal-Mart locking people in? This happened here. Just think of what a company in China can do to it's employees if they run over protestors w/ tanks.
I'm very pleased with Evan's comments in this article: It isn't just Apple, but they've been singled out & have the opportunity to really make a difference (unlike Google, who folded their "do no harm" tent upon the notice that their billion dollar opportunity in China might come to an end).
Chuck @ Jun 26th 2006 12:49PM
To those who say things like "Cry me a river" and "they can just leave", you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Don't you think that if they could get a better job they would? Do you think they are just moronic idiots, and that they love to work and live like barbaric slaves?
People like you are such spoiled brats - you think everyone else in the world shares your same freedoms and opportunities. Maybe you should get out of your cubicle for awhile and check out what the real world is like.
umrain @ Jun 26th 2006 12:52PM
If these people don't like it why don't they just go work at a different sweatshop? I mean they can't all be bad, right?
Roman @ Jun 26th 2006 1:00PM
Yeah right...as if Yahoo took a stand in China? At least Google put up a fight. Last I checked, Apple had a greater market share in China than Google and they accepted the Chinese Gov't terms without question.
But lets compare apples to Apple's... a dot-com being forced to restrict information is not the same as workers being "forced" (or the virtual equivalent) to do this kind of work for peanuts.
** Hello Moto ** @ Jun 26th 2006 1:01PM
"I'm surprised so many of you don't support the Chinese laborers."
I used to think that it was unfair, but recently I relized that it isn't so much the workers being abused. The goverments wants this! They make a ton of money because everyone uses their country for manufaturing. If China desired it could become a fair, safe place to live. But they would rather abuse their citizens to become the largest and most powerful country. The workers support the goverment, so I really don't care what happens to them, I am waiting for a war with china, and its not gonna be pretty.
Finished.Law.School @ Jun 26th 2006 1:07PM
I didn't know China had labor laws...did China even know that they had labor laws?
Roman @ Jun 26th 2006 1:08PM
"If these people don't like it why don't they just go work at a different sweatshop? I mean they can't all be bad, right?"
Why don't you go work in a sweatshop and see how you fare?! Then you'll be in a position to have something meaningful to contribute.
1984 @ Jun 26th 2006 1:10PM
Remember the 1984 Apple's Macintosh Commercial? I remember, déjà vu!? take a look at it on YouTube
Alex Quant @ Jun 26th 2006 1:10PM
Fair labour rights and conditions do not go well with mass production and high profit margins. Its impossible to expect a profitable company like Apple to have any interest in the conditions of workers if they are to maintain healthy profits for their shareholders Why go to China, where laws are even more relaxed than the west and wages are lower if Apple is at all ethical? Its a joke - shame on Apple, but shame on all of us for thinking we need these items that support shameful and degrading treatment of our fellow human beings.
Patrick @ Jun 26th 2006 1:25PM
David: Although that doesn't really mean much - the management at these facilities are well aware of how to train their employees to respond to questions from outsiders. So Apple comes in, the management is hiding the proverbial whips behind their backs, and the employees are all smiling and happy and no no problems here at all. Apple leaves, the whips come back out, and the employees go back to the grind. Getting good honest reporting on the conditions in these factories is a hell of a problem.
Danno @ Jun 26th 2006 1:26PM
I DO support the Chinese labourers.
Thank God a large company like Apple can come to a highly populated country like that and give some otherwise un-employable people some work.
Even though they are not making much money, they ARE making money - and they are making AT LEAST minimum wage. Now they can support their families with a job that they can be proud of, and keep their honor and dignity - something the Chinese culture is VERY conscious about.
ixalon @ Jun 26th 2006 1:46PM
To those who think this is all OK if it saves you a bit of money on your iPod, has it come down to the point where the great American ideal of freedom and liberty for all is cast aside to save a few dollars on your luxury items? Or does 'all' refer only US residents?
I for one wouldn't mind an extra $100 on the price of an iPod to prevent such poor treatment of employees. If these factories were in your neighbourhood, employing your family, I'm sure things would be different.
Jim @ Jun 26th 2006 1:57PM
How many of those who have commented been out of the US? Those people just want to work and are happy to work under those conditions. That does not make it right.
Low prices are great, but if we really believe we have the greatest society in the world then we must support the same standards for all, if it were not for the high standards of the Swedish we would all glowing from the radiation given off our monitors.
Thik about the big picture.
Chuck @ Jun 26th 2006 2:25PM
Slave labor still exists in China - I'm not saying the iPods are assembled using slave labor, but it does exist in China, nonetheless.
Check out http://www.lightsofchristmas.org/christmas/about/story_faith.html
Ian @ Jun 26th 2006 2:26PM
Many of these comments point out they maybe forced to work these hours so "they can eat." I would like to point out, if these companies weren't over they there, these people probably WOULDN'T be eating.
Certainly much more of the money going into those factories is going to solve world hunger than they would be any developed country. In time, as their economy improves, they won't have to work in such outrageous conditions. Remember, it wasn't that long ago in America on the farm there was rampant child labor and long, long, hard hours.
Asian Voice @ Jun 26th 2006 2:30PM
How is this any different than what Apple did to their own employees? (Steve Jobs in Pirates of Silicon Valley) Working the employees 168 hours a week to beat the competition for Job's ego?
Oh Wozinak, only if people had listened to you back long ago.
Isn't Foxconn the same electronics supplier that makes the Xbox and Xbox360 consoles?
Chuck @ Jun 26th 2006 2:30PM
" I would like to point out, if these companies weren't over they there, these people probably WOULDN'T be eating."
Similar logic was used in pre-Civil War America to justify slavery.
Applrulz @ Jun 26th 2006 2:30PM
I'll gladly pay less for an Ipod and not lose a minute of sleep thinking about the people who build them. I've bought 5 so far, 2 for me and 3 as gifts and I'll buy more in the future as fast as the Chinese and Apple can pump them out.
Andrew @ Jun 26th 2006 2:50PM
I have to imagine that if factories producing Apple products in China are this bad (relative to factories in, say, America, not other factories in China), we can be sure that companies like Microsoft, Creative, and other hardware manufacturers are guilty as well. Just like the web sites that list manufacturers that are enviromentally responsible, I would like to see a site that alerts consumers to which manufacturers are and are not violating national employment standards (not to mention manufacturers that are exceeding these already very low standards of working/living).
Scott @ Jun 26th 2006 3:15PM
""If these people don't like it why don't they just go work at a different sweatshop? I mean they can't all be bad, right?"
Why don't you go work in a sweatshop and see how you fare?! Then you'll be in a position to have something meaningful to contribute."
I think this was the original posters point. He was using sarcasm.
As for the crowd that says this is acceptable. Thats just poor. Yes it may be the only work in the area otherwise these people might be farming rice in terrible conditions but this does not make it right or acceptable for us to blindly support these practises. The problem we face though is the ChiCom's don't particularly care about labor laws so this practise will unfortunately continue.
JB @ Jun 26th 2006 3:23PM
You know what is the biggest shame here is?
Everyone that basically doesn't give a rats a$$ about the way in which other human beings have to live and work sot hat you can having a farking iPod.
When did everyone decide that being a self absorbed, consumerist is more important than other people’s basic human rights?
I hope you all end up really desperate for money and a job to support your families one day so we can all rip on you.
Blax @ Jun 26th 2006 3:34PM
I hope that this doesn't count for their motherboards too, as I don't really want to have to throw this one away...
Heath Weaver @ Jun 26th 2006 3:39PM
It is really incredible how much Westerners take for granted their standard of living. Even in the USofA many people are 'forced' to work, because without access to education or Government hand-outs they can't afford to change jobs and still feed their families.
Before writing something showing your lack of cultural understanding read at least one article on the subject.
Apple Appalled @ Jun 26th 2006 3:52PM
I couldn't agree more with JB and all the others who'd willingly pay the extra $100. And I'm sure it wouldn't be that much -- it's good economics: read some Keynes (still relevant, however much Friedman, the Chicago School lot and the rest of the freemarketeers. Pinochet and the Argentinian Junta remain their ardent fans).
Anyway, it is primarily a MORAL issue. I hope none of those saying "so what?" to this story are Bible-thumping Christians. Would you like your children, your parents, your siblings to work *needlessly* in those conditions? But, of course, you're not your brother's keeper, are you?
The same applies to Wal-Mart and all the other companies who have these inhuman, indecent practices. We should demand that the WTO impose fair trade conditions, so that we all play to the same rules: decent wages for a decent day's work, and human rights, including the right to join a union. That would be the intelligent, moral and fair thing to do. There's a *tiny* glitch in that plan, however: the USA government --who drives WTO-- is in the hands of 'Corporate America', a blind, inhuman, indstrial-military-media-political conglomerate who doesn't give a .... dollar about human rights.
Still, we have to try: how do we contact Apple to express our disapproval? Their webpage gives no clue.
E. Malave @ Jun 26th 2006 3:53PM
I'm not sure who people are defending with the idea that workers in China can leave at any time or they are lucky to have us there. How many US citizens in the US would do what iPod City workers do for equivalent pay? They do what they can because they do not have much else. While I do believe people always have a choice, sometimes the conditions are such that they do not make decisions for themselves. Having a horrible job is better than letting your child starve.
One thing I believe we are missing in the posts is the exorbitant amounts of money CEOs and executive management at these companies get paid (http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=12201) while lower level workers get paid just enough to live (if that).
The prices on products would not have to go up if their salaries were cut(http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=33448)and all workers, regardless of place, could get paid fairly. Let's not be ignorant about these things. Companies like Apple and Nike know what is going on but won't do a thing until the bad PR affects the bottom line(eg: What happened to Supersized Meals at McDonald's after "SuperSize Me"?). You don't run multi-billion dollar multi-national companies without knowing what's going on in your production centers. It is Apple's responsibility to deal with this, and the US government's responsibility should be to force them to deal with it. You can't have Operation Enduring Freedom, and talk about liberty and justice for all without taking a stand on issues like this one.Unfortunately the US has a stronger history of success in business than it does in fairness so it does not punish the purveyors of inequity properly. I'm sure the rich can live without a few extra $20,000 umbrella stands.
If you critics of fairness and humanity would like, we can turn the tables and just ask lazy Americans to leave the US and import those hardworking folk from iPod City. And I mean hard-WORKING, not just pushing around paper in your dad's office. And if you are a factory worker in a similar plant to iPod City don't even think about bringing up how hard you work-you make their yearly salary in a week to a month.
Working 12-14 hours a day in America surely is a different experience than doing it in China. How about some of you frat boys try it one day and get back to us on it?
ASizzle @ Jun 26th 2006 3:59PM
The cost of sweatshop or foreign labor on domestically sold goods is virtually trivial. The truth is you see little to no decrease in cost for the sweatshop workers' miseries.
For instance, in the garment industry, the labor cost in manufacturing the good is often less than 1% of the consumer cost. A Honduran worker making a Sean John shirt that retails for $40 gets paid $0.15 per shirt. You could double her wages and sell the shirt for $40.15. The same is true for all non-skilled foreign labor. It is even more true in the case of the iPod because most of the costs are either advertising or sunk costs in R&D. If you want your iPod to be cheaper with no loss of functionality, petition Apple to slow down its advertising juggernaut. Even if the Chinese worked for free, your iPod cost wouldn't change more than a few pennies.
Joe @ Jun 26th 2006 4:03PM
For all those bleeding hearts that have posted comments chastising Apple: the real blame lies solely on the Chinese government for having lousy labour laws as well as not enforcing the laws they have. Add onto that years of communist rule/ideology has put most of these workers in a rut they cannot pull themselves out of. To change this situation there either needs to be a revolution, or there needs to be a change in the way China does labour. Going after Foxconn and/or Apple will not solve this problem in the long term and will not stop this same problem from happening in the future.
Perrey Z. @ Jun 26th 2006 4:44PM
Why is it that when it comes to anything related to Apple is OK to leave it the way it is? These people are humans they deserve to be treated like humans not farm animals. None of you know what thouse people have to endure to find work.
Is not as easy as to walk to a store and ask for an application., These people travel from their towns in central China leaving everything behind just for the opportunity to improve their way of living. These factories know their conditions and instead of offering a decent pay with decent accomodations they rather exploit them.
Based on what i read here, some of you have the balls to blame the workers for the way Hon Hai treats them., for the simple reason is a factory that makes an Apple product. Shame on you! what do Steve Jobs and his team of losers give you for defending these actions.
The rich will get richer and the poor poorer., some of you don't have the capacity to fully understand what goes on on these factories. Well, what do you know about been a slave in the 21st century? you only care about making a statement with your precious ipods.
consumer_q @ Jun 26th 2006 4:47PM
Me thinks "the real blame lies solely on the" 'American'corporations who seek out areas with poor labour laws, and we - the consumers who expect - and feel entitled to - cheap, disposable goods.
Blame yourself, not the commies.
Jeana @ Jun 26th 2006 5:09PM
These practices are pretty standard in companies that are still industrializing. Look at U.S. history if you want the truth of that matter. What fixed it in our country was not a moral decision by the people or laws written and enforced by the government. It was the unions. The workers themselves stood up as a mass and said no, and that is the ONLY reason that working conditions changed from the dangerous, dehumanizing state they were in.
I have all the sympathy in the world for these people. I just hope they wake up and realize that no one can change things for them, and if companies like Apple pull out to bow down to the outrage of 'civilized' nations like the U.S., then their will just be another company to step in. The only ones that can change the situation for the workers in China is the workers themselves.
Patrick @ Jun 26th 2006 5:37PM
ASizzle: Yeah, I kinda wonder about that - who's the biggest profit taker in the equation? Are the corporations paying the sweatshop company a "reasonable" wage for the area (still pennies on the dollar compared to 1st world wages, but still), and the sweatshop owner is then only passing on a minor percentage of the money that is supposed to be paid to the workers? Or is the sweatshop overextending their bid for work and ending up giving the employees the screwjob in the end?