Think Secret dishes on Zune, future iPods
By Evan Blass 
posted Jul 16th 2006 3:35PM
posted Jul 16th 2006 3:35PM
Apple rumor site Think Secret has been busy chatting it up with all those company insiders whom Misters Jobs and Gates would love to get their rich and powerful hands on, and turned those leaks into an article which dispels some of the recently-circulating iPod rumors, along with providing a few more tantalizing deets about Microsoft's upcoming "iPod killer." For starters, it looks like we shouldn't be expecting the "true" video iPod until at least the annual MacWorld Expo in January -- though larger capacity 5G 'Pods may arrive in the interim -- and apparently the long-rumored iPhone also won't be coming anytime soon, as that project has reportedly been put on hold for the foreseeable future. Furthermore, when the 6G iPod is finally released, it will likely lack both the wireless capabilities and talking interface that some people have been anticipating; Apple is said to believe that the former feature would have too much of an impact on battery life, while the latter would only feed what's seen as a marginal consumer demand. Finally, Microsoft's so-called Zune -- which is rumored to sport WiFi for communicating with MTV's Urge service -- may also come equipped with a powerful 400MHz processor suitable for gaming, as well as a built in tuner for receiving satellite radio broadcasts. Obviously all this info is just speculation from unnamed sources for now, but if the Zune does end up duping your iTunes tracks, playing high-quality games, and giving you access to Sirius or XM on the go, then Apple may be facing its first real marketplace battle in the iPod's brief but influential existence.
first post first post
Lemme guess: some M$ execs came up with a list of all the tech buzzwords they picked up from CNET.com and sent it onto the engineering department to try to cram into a shell that's as close as they could get to the iPod without getting sued.
Remember how revolutionary the UMPC was supposed to be? Then it came out all bulky, with a crappy battery life and a ridiculous pricepoint.
Apple needs a major refresh for the iPod line, no doubt, but with all the Vista delays, I wouldn't trust Microsoft to tie their own shoes anymore.
I hope the interface isin't like the Pocket PC 2000 whatever. It's good for PPC's but not very elegant, which is what anyone trying to take down the iPod needs. Furthermore posting just to be the first and not giving an actual comment borders on retarded behavior and I shouldn't have to tell you that.
I'm looking forward to more competition in the marketplace. Creative, Sansa, and Apple may react to this and make better players as a result. That's good for everyone - except the fanboys of course. ;)
Joe, the only reason why the UMPC is such a failure was because of the leak. Rushed products never succeed.
If anything, I wouldn't hop the bandwagon for Apple nor trust Microsoft. I'd enter the camps that offer more functionality (at this moment) and sound quality that could please audiophiles. They being Creative or iriver, although I question iriver. Their latest offering have been rather weak.
Satellite radio tuners would be cool, but would they be able to license the radio bands (or whatever) that both services use? Also all the portable satellite radio units I've seen are, like, huge. If MS could fit satellite radio AND a hard drive AND WiFi AND Bluetooth AND a hard drive in this thing, mad mad mad mad props.
Veritas, I do look forward to Sandisks Sansa e280! (Beautiful little DAP I'd say) Although I would hesitate to do so until Sandisk releases a firmware update to resolve some issues with their current e200 lineup.
GC-
So the Zune isn't a product leak like UMPC? Where's the press release or definate pictures?
GC, the "leak" you describe is also known in some circles as a "viral marketing campaign." No one forced Microsoft to start the "what is origami?" hype engine when the product itself wasn't worth hyping. Double-edged sword, yo.
how is it going to play games? sounds like microsoft is trying to dump too many features into it. they need to focus on a couple things and do it right
And how is this large M$ DAP supposed to compete with the most popular iPod, the nano?
"actual comment borders on retarded behavior and I shouldn't have to tell you that"
Borders? GB crossed that line and has his own helmet at this point.
As for the player.
sat radio...meh.
wireless...meh
gaming....double meh.
The wireless is a good idea. In concept. Try going to an airport or a cafe at some point. You pretty much have to pay to play at this point in many locations.
Unless this thing comes with a web browser, a way to enter data, accept the redirected page that almost always comes up when you go on even a free access point, and supports WEP its going to be pretty much pointless. Again good idea...in theory.
PS- WOO HOO 8th post.....retard.
I already will not buy this piece of crap. I do not understand why corporate entities have to plaster their logos everywhere. You sure don't see that with the iPod, which is why I purchased it.
"I already will not buy this piece of crap. I do not understand why corporate entities have to plaster their logos everywhere. You sure don't see that with the iPod, which is why I purchased it."
You mean like on the back? And Sherlock this is a freaking mock up.
God the 'tards are just coming out of the woodworks for this thread.
Don't know who photoshopped the Sirius interface on the Zune, but if it has a satellite reciever at all it would likely be XM.
Why?
A: Microsoft is already partnered with XM, there are tie-ins all over the place - like right in Windows Media Player for example. Though it's plausable Sirius could once again ignore profitability and somehow give MS a wad of cash from it's magical money-pot. But does MS need it?
B: XM is still quite aways ahead of Sirius technologically in terms of reciever size, heat-generation, power-consumtion, etc. They showed a prototype months ago of the entire reciever in a package about the size of two stacked quarters.
"I'd enter the camps that offer more functionality (at this moment) and sound quality that could please audiophiles. They being Creative or iriver, although I question iriver. Their latest offering have been rather weak."
I've been quite happy with Archos products. They are clearing out their current-gen hardware via Dish Network and PocketDish to make way for their new models. $150 for an 3G iPod-sized 20Gig unit with USB -hosting (dump photos, dock and share with other USB MP3 players) and DVD-res video-playback (w/TV-out built-in) isn't bad at all. If half of what has been leaked makes it in to the new ones (Removable battery, WiFi, High-Def Divx, MPEG2, H.264, possibly even touch-screens and Internet/email on some models) one of the new Archos models will be mine as well.
XM doesnt have Howard Stern.
Id get a Zune and ditch my ipod if Zune offered Howard 100 and 101.
The Media Player in Windows is fine but the one in PPC2003 AND WM5 blows huge chunks. It is it the most annoying, time consuming interface. You pretty much have to go through three menus before you can play. As far as I'm concerned - press the f$#@en play button and you should hear music. Thank goodness MS doesn't make cars - you'd spend 10 minutes going through menus before it would let you press the gas pedal.
Bill - have you tried WMP on WM5!?! It is fine that you want to make MP3 players but get your s@#! together with WM5 before you waste any effort on a somewhat similar product. There is a reason people download alternate players for WM5!!
I don't understand why zune needs some much newsspace here.
Others have created wifi *and* gaming featured mp3 players. Take archos pma420 for example.
There is absolutely nothing new in the speculated features, just the typical boring old microsoft jumping into markets others have created.
I don't understand why this is worth so many articles here.
Quote:
If anything, I wouldn't hop the bandwagon for Apple nor trust Microsoft. I'd enter the camps that offer more functionality (at this moment) and sound quality that could please audiophiles. They being Creative or iriver, although I question iriver. Their latest offering have been rather weak.
There have been many things said against the iPod (lack of features, no optical out (or line out for that matter, scratches like nothing else, no user replaceable battery), but signal quality is not one of them. I don't know which "audiophiles you're speaking of, but amoung groups such as head-fi, the iPod is a very well received player. Some argue that older players like the rio kharma or iriver ihp 1xx/3xx series are still better, but the general consensus is that there is little deviation in sq between most major dap makers. In fact, those going for the best portable source send their iPods of to red wine audio. As, such I have a hard time understading how the iPod sounds worse than the offerings from other companies (especially with rockbox).
Tim Harris: "I do not understand why corporate entities have to plaster their logos everywhere."
That'd be a technique known as advertising. And it seems to have done well in the past. Look at all the people that walk around advertising for Abercrombie.
I'm excited to see what MS comes up with. I've been looking for a replacement for my Archos Jukebox FM Recorder 20GB for a while now.
archos beats all anyways, why doesnt archos get more exposure?
Zunenation.com has an interesting article today about the domains that microsoft has registered - most noteable zune and zunelive.com
The microsoft player will be crap just like most all of their attempts to do anything. It might be feature rich but none of it will work correctly. I have a t-mobile mda and it took me three weeks to get this thing half way functional. I'll stick with my ipod.
In the end, people are going to mainly care about the audio experience overall; it is the primary functionality of these players...otherwise this will just be a rediculously small UMPC...and we all know how price goes up when size shrinks. I cant currently see how M$ honestly plans to market this...seeming to chuck every possible feature in. What about battery life? It is going to suck horribly if they wantt to keep this in a competative price range.
WiFi is good, but without a large base to use it for, it will fail. And honestly, what way will wifi play into the audio experience? buying off Urge for this thing? Last I checked, people buy music online from the computer. Is it that hard to plug your DAP into the USB port for 2 damn seconds? If WiFi isnt used in any revolutionary way, it isnt going to be worth buying. The only thing I can see it working with is some sort of On-the-go service where a major computer terminal is not needed by the end-user, some sort of hotspot service at cafes and such for buying. But even that can be redundant if you think about it.
The Sirus integration is a cool idea, and the only really feasable add-on on the Zune's list I see working on a large-scale basis. I would be curious to see how many people, all other features aside, would use the Sirius functionality on a large basis, at least outside the car.
As far as gaming....how the hell is one going to play games on this thing? Maybe Pong, Space invaders, and crap like that.....wait, which audio player has that sort of thing already? I forget.....oh yeah, the iPod.
Microsoft either needs to get their **** in order or face the facts that Apple truely beat them. And I am not saying this as an Apple fanboy/someone that hates microsoft. I am saying this from a logical perspective that Apple has a virtual stronghold on the market, with well rounded players and a great service....if anyone is going to challenge that, they need to do something just as well rounded and even better, not steaming piles of rumor-mished crap like this.
Just my 2 cents, flame it if you like. But dont give me that crap about my comments being one that comes from a "retard fanboy". Its pure logic and understanding of marketing. More functions does not mean better quality, and could end up dragging the whole product down , and the price up.
P.S. - Microsoft's service duping purchased iTunes tracks? Yeah right, and pigs fly out of my ass. I could be wrong, but I dont think they can do that legally, or at least Apple is going to pitch a fit. A bigger point however is that, ok fine, say they do end up doing that. I honestly think people are going to want a beter incentive to switch music stores. But that is just me.
Same old same old. Too many features increaing size and decreasing battary life that way too few consumers know how to use or even want to use.
Microsoft are being silly on this one. They should have bought out something that rivalled the ipod in terms of size and sleekness and and offered it at a lower price. No radio, no wifi. Nothing that the ipod hasn't got. As a previous poster said there are other players with these features. If consumers wanted them on mass they would have already brought one and deserted Apple.
As it is all they will do is attract the geek market which Creative, irivier et al already own. Jobs must be rubbing his hands in glee.
As for me I'll stick with the ipod. I don't want to have to rummage around in incomprehensible menus among features I don't want or need just to play music.
I agree with those who think MS is trying to cram too many features into the Zune. Are people really going to want to play games on it? I know I wouldn't. I can't even tell you which games are on my iPod as I've never looked.
My big question is this: when, in the entire history of marketing, has something billed as an "___ killer" ever actually killed the thing it was supposed to kill? As far as I'm concerned, labelling a product as a "___ killer" is a big, honkin' red flag. Those product almost always turn out to be a lot of hype with no substance, and I suspect Microsoft's "iPod killer" will be the same way.
(And while we're at it... "Zune"? Was this thing named by Nintendo's PR firm or something? Does it have a ridiculous Wii-like mission statement to go along with the silly name?)
I think one thing that is over looked when creating these iPod killers, is the standard person's wallet. The fact is, the majority of the iPods were bought either this year or last, so it doesn't seem like a good time to bring out a killer. Yes, there are the committed technophiles (for example, on here) who will always want and have the latest tech, but I'd say for the average person, they'll want at least 1-3 years out of something the price of an iPod.
Naturally, I'm not saying that everyone in the market for a DAP has already bought one and you shouldn't release one for another 2 years, just that it does appear a hell of a lot of people have their DAPs, and I rarely here anyone saying they desperately want one.
I feel to topple the iPod, it would be advisable to either wait until the average iPod (don't ask me about the maths involved in averaging iPods :-/) is dying and/or do some serious innovating, none of this half-arsed crap.
The talking interface already exists to a degree in the Nike Nano. That isn't the gadget in the shoe that is talking, it is the iPod. Although, that may be done by managing MP3 files... the vocabulary for a true talkback feature (text to speech) may not be there yet.
Matt: You negated the idea that anything you had to say after "M$" was worth the read, lose the fanboyisms.
Fred: "rummage around in incomprehensible menus among features I don't want or need" You know, it's fascinating how that's the centerpoint of OS X, and yet Apple went in the opposite direction for the iPod, fascinating.
Furtim: And what the hell kind of name is iPod? A lower case letter i followed by "Pod" It's not a god damned Pod in the least, and the i at this point in Apple's existence brinks on annoying. No player names sound Good, it's just an attempt by PR to get people's attention.
I don't really care! Most people don't really care, I'm not going to care later, I didn't care before, and I don't care now, why are you still people still posting these articles?
ok revrant
i totaly agree!... with ur first point.
the rest is drivel.
1. the iPod is the most easy to use DAP ever made in my, (and MOST other electronics buyers) opinion. and it DOESN'T have too many features crammed in, unlike some other DAPs. I started off hating iPods due to their price, popularity and lack of 'cool' features. but after using mates a couple of times, i now think they are great. so easy to use, and what more do u want? i dont actually own one though, but thats beside the point.
2. iPod, makes sense. it IS a pod, (deffinition: # A streamlined external housing that encloses engines, machine guns, or fuel.(in an automotive sense). its a case that contains....something like an engine...sort of. and the i could stand for many things like interactive or ....impala. but whatever, it does mean SOMETHING.
3. and the age old phrase is goin to come up. "if you dont want to read these articles, THEN DONT!" and especially dont post crap like that.
good day to you sir.
on the topic of the zune...i really dont think we can judge this thing at all untill we see its battery life and is interface. those are the 2 MAIN things i think.
"but if the Zune does end up duping your iTunes tracks, playing high-quality games, and giving you access to Sirius or XM on the go, then Apple may be facing its first real marketplace battle in the iPod's brief but influential existence."
Nah.
Well, I'm just glad they didn't name it iSomething.
If these are going to stream sat radio, is wont be with sat radio tuner chipsets. I think it will be through a 3G connection, with software in the player to access the channels. This is one hurdle in getting over the TINY Satellite radio thing. TINY cellphones, if powerful enough could run this software to stream sirius or xm content. This only makes sense, and I rule.
Why is it that when a new product is introduced in the relm of the favorite, everybody has negative vibes before even seeing its true value. Todays favorite was once yesterdays contender and maybe tomorrows as well.Cuz no one can stand at the top forever when everbody is biting at their heels and the only other place is down. If you stick to one tried formula it will work for a while, but eventually somebody is gonna say enough already time for something new.
Microsoft Zune - Carry 10,000 viruses in your pocket!
Seriously though, this is sounding more and more like typical over-priced, bloated, complicated garbage that Microsoft has been great at turning out recently. If they can keep this thing from blue-screening every ten minutes then maybe they might sell a couple to their most loyal fan-boys, but everyone else will stick with the iPod.
With the xbox and now with the Zune, it's always interesting to see Microsoft in an underdog position attempting to innovate and challenge the rule of market leaders. With both the xbox and now this, I find it strange rooting for what is normally the superpower.
Who is seeing blue screen every ten minutes anymore? I got it once a few months back when the GPS driver was shight.
I have a Windows 5.0 smartphone (I otherwise use Mac), and if the menus and navigation on that are anything to go by, you couldn't pay me to buy a DAP from Microsoft. I imagine to actually play a song, you'll have to click the start button, go to settings, access the music menu, scroll down to the extended tab, find Music Player Wizard, select Song Menu (between Reformat Drive and Purchase Microsoft Products) and select Song (activation). All of these commands will, of course, need to be confirmed by clicking 'Yes', entering a password, and giving a thumbprint.
Its funny when the Mac heads say things like "Microsoft should just realize that Apple has beat them, and give up" LOL!
First of all, digital music sales are just a small percentage of total sales. So there is still a lot of room for market growth.
And second, if any company should give up, its Apple with its laughable 5% market share. Even after the so called iPod "halo effect".
Pathetic.
Boo Hooooo
Microsoft is very good at vaporware. Let's see what they deliver!
re: apples 'laughable' 5% market share -- is 60% of the dap market laughable?
Apple commands the major marketshare(60/70% or so out of my head)of the portable media player and having a near two thirds of ANY market is NOT pathetic if you ask me..
Anyways back to this Microsoft Zune thingy...must say the size of the screen is admirable. They must have got a new design team in since the first generation original xbox days...first impression isn't too shabby for me.
"is 60% of the dap market laughable?"
Nope. Not laughable at all. But its also not so high that companies should just give up and stop competing. As is suggested a lot by Mac zealots. Read for yourself, even in this thread.
People act as if Apple is some unstoppable force because they have 60 percent of a young market. And Microsoft should just give up and admit defeat. But I think this whole DAP war is just getting started. And the pod could end up like the apple OS. At a pathetic 5%.
Personally I wouldn't pity anyone that could hold onto 5% of today's PC market, particularly if it's just about the most profitable 5%.
And I wouldn't count out Microsoft at all, which isn't a first mover--the company is about excelling at dominating markets that others pioneer and develop.
MaxSMoke:
"Gaming??? It has 1 direction pad and two buttons! How can that play a game???"
Think of what the NES's gamepad looked like. ;)
Since when did OS X have incomprehensible menus. It's a lot easier to undersstand that Windows with its BOSD, 'your computer is unsafe because you don't have a virus whatever or spyware whatever or adware whatever.' Believe it or not but most people are not geeks and don't know what 'spyware' or adware' even are. OS X is the simplest to use OS by far as has been recognised by numerous reviewers and just about everyone on the planet bar you it seems.
You can tell it's from MS, it's ugly...
I will buy this if it is cheap and good, so I won't buy it ;)
I wish that was a real picture, that is dammed nice looking. I would give in my 5G iPod for that. While I like the iPod and all, its not quite what it once was.
The look of that, is very tempting, nicely sized screen as well. I think Microsoft will probably go for a 2SKU option with one 'core' player that is basically the same as the iPod and another 'Premium' player that has all the bells and whistles.
Competition is always good for the market as you can see in the games market. I wish Microsoft the best in this and hope that it makes all players better thanks to the new compotition maybe then $teve Job$ will get off his ass and innovate some.
And I only did the Steve Jobs thing to show the apple fan boys how stupid it makes them look ;)
Im an Apple user and i own a 3g ipod (in fact - 3 of them, 2 of them broke down) and I love playing video games on my X-box...while i like the ipod, I would like to see more competition in the market place.
The thing that im more comcerned with is battery life. I also own a psp which I take with me on trips overseas and while its useful having a lot of features - the plain fact is that the battery life sucks.
Whats the battery life on this thing that Microsoft are making ?? because 4 hours just aint going to cut it.
Bluetooth...will there be Bluetooth on the Zune?
Apple reportedly believes that Wi-Fi would have too high an impact on an iPod's battery life, which is a valid belief if we're talking about downloding, browsing or streaming.
However, if you just wanna send songs wirelessly between devices that's a less demanding feature, but does not need all the overhead that Wi-Fi demands. Bluetooth would be better choice, while simultaneously allowing wireless headphones.
Microsoft is planning another FEATURE CREATURE!
You'll be able to do everything under the sun for one and a half hours between recharges. So just bring your hydrogen fuel cell with you wherever you go.
Just curious--is it Zune (as in tune) or Zune (as in zoonee)? Does anybody know--or care?
Not that exciting looking. But if its easy to use and has all of those features it might have the best chance yet at challenging the iPod or beings a strong 2nd place.
"There have been many things said against the iPod (lack of features, no optical out (or line out for that matter, scratches like nothing else, no user replaceable battery), but signal quality is not one of them. I don't know which "audiophiles you're speaking of, but amoung groups such as head-fi, the iPod is a very well received player. Some argue that older players like the rio kharma or iriver ihp 1xx/3xx series are still better, but the general consensus is that there is little deviation in sq between most major dap makers. In fact, those going for the best portable source send their iPods of to red wine audio. As, such I have a hard time understading how the iPod sounds worse than the offerings from other companies (especially with rockbox)."
Check your favourite head-fi forums again. The ONLY iPod that gets stellar reviews in sound quality is the Shuffle, the rest are garbage.
There's a reason why Apple doesn't release their audio specs...
I don't think it will have a touch screen because then they would probably try to market as a DAP/Organizer to compete with Pocket PCs or Palm.
As far as positives, i think they will succeed if it is possible to broadcast the music to which you are listening to other people with the Zune around you, then you could bookmark the song and buy it later. That would be a great way to sell songs, right? Anyway, i'd like to hear more news about this zuner than later.
Check out my views on the "iPod Killer" ZUNE.
All apple, all the time.. reviews, comments, opinions and rants (sometimes): http://macgomez.com/
Sebastien Gomez
Do you know that "zune" or "zoune" is slang for PENIS in Québec ? And I heard that I Hebrew it means something like "Fuck"
Great name Microsoft !!!!!
Who cares about the French