But wait, there's more... Zune deets
By Paul Miller 
posted Jul 17th 2006 1:45PM
posted Jul 17th 2006 1:45PM
For a product that Microsoft hasn't even officially confirmed, there sure is a whole lot of Zune info to be getting on with. The latest leaks are from Digital Music News, who has been reviewing some of the presentation material that Microsoft shared with top-level execs of partner companies. The biggest detail that they've unveiled is that the Zune will indeed be basing its social networking capabilities on Microsoft's Live Anywhere platform. Not an incredibly huge surprise, given the functions we've already heard described and the Xbox roots of the device, but it should give the Zune a good boost in the direction of its 18-28 year old demographic, which Microsoft claims will skew a bet younger than that of the iPod. The social aspects, including that trusty friends list from Xbox Live, is purportedly taking some cues from MySpace, which seems to go beyond the functions we spied at our E3 demo of Live Anywhere. DMN also reveals that the 30GB Zune will have the "same pricing, look and feel as the 60GB iPod," which was $399 the last time we checked. That, of course, is the same price as an Xbox 360 Platinum, which might put the hurt on the cashflow of their younger target demographic. As rumored, the Zune should come in three colors, and that round button is indeed a scroll wheel to work the menus. WiFi functionality will be able to share music with up to 10 friends in a close-range peer to peer fashion, but to share a protected track your friend will have to "bookmark" the song for purchasing later. The player will be incompatible with other PlaysForSure services, focusing, we suppose, exclusively on their URGE store. There's still no word on non-DRMed MP3 sharing, but the outlook isn't good. Microsoft is aiming for a November release in the US, to be followed by a global launch next year. We would promise you more info as the release looms nearer, but we're not sure what else we could say.
they should learn the lesson and keep expectations low instead of leaking infos every now and then resulting in a windows-vistaesque PR joke
So it's the same price as a 60GB iPod...yet it's only 30GB. And they admit to basically ripping off the iPod's design? That doesn't sound very appealing to me, and I can't honestly believe that Microsoft would even deign to "rip-off" the iPod.
Wi-Fi would be awesome, but how are people going to communicate with each other with those little buttons? Voice? Scroll through letters? I think it may be more advantageous to buy a 30GB iPod and then get a cell phone with the $100 you save.
Also, I do like the P2P music sharing, but that bookmarking thing will kill it. It'd be awesome if it was working a bit like a radio station in a small network - one person's Zune plays a song and all in the immediate vicinity can listen, maybe even communicate about it with the Zune. And then maybe buy that song later if they like it - it could raise sales by raising people's exposure to the song.
Call me crazy, but I'm suspicious of a device that tries to rip off the iPod in a market saturated by them. It's not about features, I think - it's about brand name recognition. iPod is the cool name on the block - companies have tried to rip it off before (recalls the forgotten devices on the shelves of his local Best Buy), and failed. It'd be nice to see something other than an iPod making a sale, though.
Sounds interesting but until i see a final device and the quality of it i'm reserving my "yay or nay" vote
A 30 Gb Microsoft player for the price of last years 60 Gb iPod. And it's incompatible with PlaysForSure (O the irony). Sign me up! :)
30 gigs for $399? WAIT - the iPod is actually going to have the upper hand in the price department? I think I'm going to faint...
Wow, same price as 60gig Ipod with half the capacity. Sounds like a winner! It doesn't matter if it has many more features, MS should know that's not how you cut into the leader's market share. Dead on Arrival if that is true.
The more info that gets leaked about this thing, the more I start to feel a little bit sorry for the beleagured software giant. They just don't get it. This thing will be as still-born as the Origami.
check out the photo:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/haselton68/detail?.dir=ec0are2&.dnm=617cre2.jpg&.src=ph
Does this mean Zuma is a gaming machine?
All this info sounds expensive and typical MS. I had high hopes for this thing but the more and more I hear about it the less enthused I get.
Apple is successful because they make a simple, easy to use MUSIC PLAYER. Everything else is secondary. MS is trying to make this thing everything to everybody, which is a mistake. Because of this you now have $399 device that holds 30gigs of music.
You tell me, for someone who wants a music player, who is going to bypass a 30gig 5G that is $100 less, has a truckload of 3rd party support, proven, and the IT item for the moment for this? Unless somthing changes I don't see a lot of folks doing so.
"The player will be incompatible with other PlaysForSure services"
What the hell is that about? I thought this whole PlayForSure thing was MS's idea, now they are going to lock their own player from everything but their own site? I know it's not really unexpected but that still stinks.
I understand that Zune is being developed by the same people within MS that brought out Xbox 360, which *may be* well on its way to take a huge bite of Sonys marketshare in the video game department. Let us not dismiss this "just" because it is a MS product... If MS execute equally well, they may do the same to Apple.
Not too exited by the design though--hope it's a prototype!
Actually I like the open attitude toward development. It keeps expectations realistic. Anything else is just a game.
I've always felt the reverse or the "we've got secret 'giggle giggle'" approach to be more than a bit childish. And more prone to over-inflated expectations.
On the product itself however it is getting frighteningly close to sounding like they're following the Ipod model of "you can put it on but you can't get it off." If they end up with no ability to directly drag music onto it and force people to use separate software for loading it's pretty much dead to me.
This and a few other 'do it our way or no way' features have kept me from even considering an Ipod so I may pass on this also.
Companies (like Creative) think they will beat Apple by offering the same or slightly more features at the same price. WRONG. They need to offer those functions at a significantly LESS price.
So, what is MS thinking? Offering a 30GB for the price of Apple's 60GB? Does it *want* to fail?
"See the thing about MS is that they have no taste" Steve Jobs
Since when has Apple been the frontier of new technology? It seems to me that MS just takes an idea and always try to make it better, Why cant they be innovated? they always steal products and i hope they get sued for there scroller, dman rip offs!
If in fact Bill Gates does read engadget, you would think that he would have learned some things by now. If these deets are true, I feel sorry for our pals at Microsoft.
Zune Schmoon. iPod killer!? Ha. Why is anyone really even bothering? Apple has a 5 year head start with MILLIONS sold already. By the time someone else comes out with an "iPod Killer," Apple will have already been to bank, deposited the check and is smiling on the way home. Anyway, by the time the next "iPod Killer" comes out, Apple will already be making some new cool gadget that we'll all want to have and we'll have moved on. The word "iPod" will probably be in the dictionary by then.
[And, no, I'm no Apple lover. I can just read the tea leaves]
And, please, MS! Can't you make an original design already? Sheesh.
The only way that anyone will gain any leverage over Apple and the iPod is by opening up the format. And I don't think Microsoft or (especially) any of the record labels will allow that to happen.
"skew a bet younger" ? Try spelling to not give away your own age.
Two words: Battery. Life.
I for one welcome our Zune overlords.... :)
Seriously though, it's all conjecture at this point. I have to admit though I'm pretty intrigued as to what they're doing. If the device is price competitive (that seems up in the air) and the rumor of them allowing us free tunes for those already purchased on iTMS (I have well over 900) it could be doable.
I've been trying URGE on a Clix and I've been pretty happy with their service. If they manage to weave this into a whole 'lifestyle' thing and the Zune plays nice with my 360 and Live Anywhere I could be seduced over from the iPod/iTMS camp.
"The player will be incompatible with other PlaysForSure services, focusing, we suppose, exclusively on their URGE store."
With partners like Microsoft, who needs enemies?
Wait, so I can't use the less expensive Yahoo server? And the player costs way more than it should? Stupid idea, Microsoft.
I'm all for any player that gets mac zealots' panties up in bunches. Sheesh...thing hasn't even been released and it's being bashed to death already. fanatics crack me up.
Now if you'll excuse, I'm gonna go rock my 8-track. REO Speedwagon 4-ever!!!!
With partners like Microsoft, who needs enemies?
--
Just as Apple
Since its leaked information i highly doubt the price point. Features alone arn't going to make Microsoft even make a dent in ipods market share. Creative and others have some nice / feature loaded or unloaded players out there. Those would have over taken the space that microsoft is aiming for a nitch market.
At the end of the day to the averege consumer it comes do ease of use. As much as i hate it nothing at the moment realy beats the itunes intergration with the ipod.
If Microsoft can make a compareable service i'm sure it will be welcomed by the consumer. Besides Competition is a good thing.
For the time being tho i'll stick wiht my zen.
"The player will be incompatible with other PlaysForSure services, focusing, we suppose, exclusively on their URGE store."
So is this a "Our PlaysForSure partners don't need to worry, we aren't competing with them" thing, or a "PlaysForSure is dead, Jim...the future is Zune/URGE" kinda thing? Or maybe both!
I don't buy that it will only work with URGE files. That would not be very "Plays For Sure". I'm sure that they will make it functional with all music stores just like any other Plays For Sure compatible device.
RE: Posted at 2:13PM on Jul 17th 2006 by Hafnium
You may have noticed, Hafnium, Microsoft took Market Share from Sony by undercutting.
Microsoft is Pricing its 30gb at the price of the 60gb (which by november will be 100gb).
'Great Plan for Taking Market Share' Registered trademark Micro$oft
Microsoft always does this huge PR thing up front.
If we're lucky, maybe they're reading all these blogs and what not and are taking some of the criticism to heart. Competition is always good, although this current 'effort' seems a bit lame.
Dear Microsoft.... please don't screw this up
Does anyone need anymore proof that MS (the mother ship, with all it's money, power, influence, and oh so talented engineers) copies from Apple? You would think it's the other way around eh!
Both Gates and Ballmer tried to convinced everyone ESPEACIALLY their partners that the Apple way of a close system will ultimately fail. Now they are screwing their partners by closing their system and making it incompatible with other PlaysForSure services. The same partners that played cheerleader for them spewing the same Apple Way is Bad message....WOW!
First off I love my iPod. I am also a victim of the "Halo Effect" and purchased an iBook after the flames of my iLlicit iPod love afair cooled. I'm even happier with my iBook than I was with my iPod. I can't even remember when the last time I used my High End home built Media Center Edition Windows PC instead of my iBook. In fact a lightning storm a couple of months ago knocked out the electricity therby turning of th PC for me, and I havn't turned it back on since.
That being said, I have little to nothing keeping me to the iPod. I like the iTunes interface as a player, but have bought very little from the iTMS. I think the value of the DRM laden tracks are crap, and for me the PlaysForSure/FairPlay issue is moot. I think the competition that Microsoft is able (Trust me they are able to bring competition) to bring to the table will be nothing but good news. I think the WiFi idea sounds neat. Especially if it were open to anyone, not just friends. I imagine a menu where you can see what songs are playing on other devices in the vecinity with an icon denoting DRM'd songs and select whichever you'd like to listen to. My advice however, is to not let yourself get locked into anyones DRM scheme.
"Sheesh...thing hasn't even been released and it's being bashed to death already. fanatics crack me up."
It's being bashed to death because it deserves to be bashed to death.
Hey, remember all those other music players that came out and tried to take on the iPod? Remember Creative saying they were going to have 50% market share by now? They all got bashed too. And look where we are now.
We bash because we know better than these guys.
I mean, look. 2 years ago iRiver or Creative or one of these companies announced a player and I came on here and said "Why bother?" I got the crap kicked out of me by people saying the war had just started, iPod sucked, Apple was nothing, etc. etc.
Fast forward to now, and the market share situation is pretty much the same as it was then. When are you gonna learn? When are any of these companies? So I don't want to hear it. I was right then, and I'm right - we're all of us bashers right - this time too.
Whether you like Apple or not, the whole portable music thing is done. Fin. Over. Forget it and move on. Hey, I hear movie downloads are the next big thing.
And if the Zune is getting bashed more than some players, it's because it's almost unbelievable that the largest software company in the world could make so many of the same mistakes we've seen from others. I mean, isn't that the clinical definition of insanity? Continuing to do the same things over and over and expecting a different result?
Hey whatever_man,
Read the Comments being posted a little more carefully next time. Most of the people getting their panties in a wad about all of the details coming out about this thing are PeeCee users and not Mac zealots like you say they are. I'd be willing to bet that most Mac users don't give a flying poop about wheather or not the Zune will work with other PlaysForSure services, or have a Sirius or XM satellite tuner, or be WiFi, or serve their martinis shaken and not stirred because this Zune thing probably won't work on a Mac and therefor is of no concern to a Mac user. The Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter if this thing fails or is a big success. Mac users use Macs for a reason and will loyally continue using Macs even if MS actually gets this one right.
So, as a general message to all of you who love to hate Mac fanboys and girls, why don't you just leave us out of it cause we really don't care in the end. We just love watching from out greener grass as MS trips and stumbles time and time again.
Prove me wrong Bill... prove me wrong.
MS: Hey, there's a new MP3 player on the market!
WORLD: That's good!
MS: It's not an iPod.
WORLD: That's bad.
MS: It's has the same pricing, look and feel of an iPod, though!
WORLD: That's good!
MS: ...but it also only has half the capacity of an iPod at the same price point.
WORLD: That's bad.
MS: Oh, but this one connects to the Xbox 360 in new and interesting ways!
WORLD: That's good!
MS: ...but the price, combined with a 360, puts it well out of the reach of all but the most spoiled-rotten members of our target demographic.
WORLD: That's bad.
MS: Um... unlike the iPod, you can share songs with this one!
WORLD: That's good!
MS: ...but you have to bookmark downloaded songs to buy later.
WORLD: That's bad.
MS: However, you can buy those songs on the URGE store!
WORLD: That's g-- wait, the what?
MS: Doesn't work with our PlaysForSure standard for some reason, though.
WORLD: WTF?
MS: It'll be packed with delicious DRM to keep you from truly "owning" your music!
WORLD: Later, douchebag.
I love those who think this could be good for competition. Microsoft will have a difficult time gaining marketshare, but they will gain it. But who will they gain it from? From the 20% that Creative, iRiver, SanDisk, Samsung have... Or at least, I would bet every 8 out of 10 customers comes from them. This will kill competition. And as has been pointed out: we will then have two closed systems, not one dominant one and one slightly open, kludgy one. Yes, Microsoft and its partners have no clue and will be reversing almost 5 years of strategizing and failing, and yes, Jobs and others of us said it over a year ago... if not longer.
Just read the iRiver interview: he's talking out of both sides of his mouth: we had to make it simple but we need to keep the features, we have tight integration with Urge but we want to work with everything, we have a close relationship but really they are just showing one of our products on a web page, yes, we used to have over a billion in revenue but I'm happier now than ever with less than a hundred million in revenue....
I can't wait...
RE: Posted at 3:15PM on Jul 17th 2006 by Bren
Or is it Sony that is "overcutting"?
MS took marketshare by putting out a "doable" console, which is by no means perfect (no HDMI/digital video output, HD DVD and so on), but it was "doable" at a reasonale retail price and a full year (more?) before the competition...
I'm not saying that the Zune 399$ mark is justified, but 30 gb is enough for me, and if got some outstanding features that in other ways will put take it past the iPod, I might just get one... But they need to do something about the design!
Something, I wonder: obviously all of this info is being circulated in the music industry and that's how it's getting out: do they actually buy this strategy?
DigitalMusicNews says no and has been very accurate.
But there's just so many silly and fundamentally huge problems with this strategy (besides silly rumors) like things like:
1. There target market is younger than iPod users (18-28), but they are going to leverage the XBox who's target market skews towards the adult, more than the PS2 or the iPod?! Brilliant!
2. It's still bigger than the iPod with smaller capacity and higher price?! Brilliant!
3. It's got these community features, but no discernable means of inputing data... i.e, communicating?! Brilliant!
4. It's differentiating hardware feature is wifi which drains batteries, requires a present network, sometimes requiring login (no input), and even then the feature is limited to streaming only MS-purchased DRMed tracks to ten people?! Brilliant!
I thought MS took marketshare from Sony because there was no other competition. You can't put the GameCube legitimately in the same space. But MS's alleged Xbox "success" is limited to taking 18%, its second generation is still selling less than PS2s, and they've never made money.
Apple fanboys are an arrogant bunch. They believe the majority of the population is in love with Apple the way that they are. So they think their tired catcalls about how this player is "junk" will actually sway people. Pleeeze!
That is far from the case, but they will be in full overdrive over the next few months to trip up MS in hopes that it will save their "beloved" music box. MS should do what they did with the Xbox. That is, use the arrogance of the competition against them and come out on top in the end.
What the fanboys need to do is hope that some real innovation starts to come from Jobs. Just making the HD bigger is not innovation. In fact, other than the bigger HD, what innovative thing has the ipod done in the past 2 years?
A. Nothing. The only thing keeping this player afloat is the hot air from the zealots.
meh...all the zune threads are the same...bashing MS for releasing a player with TOO many features. "Why can't it be simple like the iPod". Of course the comments have the "I'm a PC user" caveat to hide the obvious fact that they're iSheep. Sheesh peeps, get over your iPod. The interface ain't that great and it was actually cool and innovative like 2.5 years ago. Now it's just a stale DRM-chained MP3 player.
I'm not saying Zune is better...I don't know...it hasn't been released yet. I'm just saying the iPod ain't the end-all and it does need a swift kick in the butt to liven things up.
Oh...and players like the Zen Vision was bashed to death to before it's release...it has be shown to be quite a contender by many review sites. Many actually prefer it.
Market share /= best product. Look at Windows. Ironic isn't it?
I am a recent mac convert. (bought my MacBook a month ago) however my other 3 computers are Windows and I use Windows at my school. I always get my hopes up when microsoft releases a new product and then find myself disappointed. As opposed to Apple which I am finding myself pleasantly surprised more often than not.
I believe that the "Zune" in it's current form will fail, and here's why:
1. An iPod (or digital music player) for that matter is not like a PC or video game system which has new softwares, etc. It's something that plays your songs. You can get away with using the same one until the battery dies, you break it, you want a new one, or you run out of space and need a bigger one. I cannot imagine MS releasing this "Zune" device and have initial sales that are spectacular. Why? Too many people have iPods already. If this would have been released say between the 1G & 2G iPod, it may have sold better, but it's too late now.
2. Most people are not going to care about features, they want something easy and inexpensive. While Engadget readers and the like might like to know about p2p Wifi and so on, most people simply won't care.
3. So Zune is going to let me redownload my files for free. That's great, but guess what? I have to sit there and let all the files re-download. It's going to take lots of time, espeically if someone downloads "lots" of files from the ITMS. I personally find watching the songs download as interesting as watching paint dry. Also, some music companies might not necessarily be on board for Zune. What happens in this instance? Also, what about my TV Shows? Maybe Zune only has UPN, FOX, and say CBS but ITMS has ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX. How can I still watch my Desperate Housewives now? Music files can at least be ripped back fairly easily, video files not so much. (We all know it can be done one way or another, but does the average bear?)
4. Everyone (The Vast Majority) love their iPods. It's not as though this is a true "Video iPod" or something that's in the rumor mill elsewhere, this is just a typical iPod killer like how iRiver, Creative, Toshiba, & Dell have already created. Granted it has an interesting bell or whistle, but nothing as drastic as say a "touch screen".
5. It's not priced to sell. $399 for 30GB? With $599 or so I can buy a cheap laptop which will have more Hard Disc Space than this device and use it specifically for playing music. So I can carry that small crappy laptop everywhere and if I need to run just use my Walkman or the iPod I already own.
I just can't see this gaining a market share immediately. It's not priced well, people don't need them over the iPod they already own, etc.
I suppose I must ask the ultimate question that I'm sure is prying into everyone's heads... Will Zune be available as Mac & PC compatable or will the 10 Apple users who buy this have to use bootcamp?... ;)
Whether or not the Xbox is (or will be, rather) succesful in the marketplace I guess we will only see once the PS3 arrives. But as an owner I'm very satisfied, and I have been so for almost 9 months. So for me it's succesful. I don't have a source on this one, but it seems to me that most people are quite happy with the Xbox... And if people are satisfied with a product, it will "only" require marketing to increase marketshare.
Well if the UMPCs are any indication it will be the size of a notebook and cost a grand.
Really, if they made this a game system/ mp3 player/movie player/internet browser that would be cool...oh wait they have one, it's called a PSP.
And as MS' xbox marketing dept. so eagerly pointed out the combined savings of a wii and a 360, why not get an ipod and a ds for the price of one Zune?
Hafnium, that's a silly theory. A product has a small percentage of satisfied users... helll, any percentage... That does not equate to marketshare will rise with marketing. If that were so, Creative and iRiver would be doing great. Rio wouldn't have left the market, etc... All it means is that some number of people are satisfied. Growing that number of people takes a whole lot more.
Also, it's silly to claim a product is a success because you're happy. Most every product has its happy campers. However, not making money and not gaining ground on your competitions 5 year old product are indicators of lacking success.
"meh...all the zune threads are the same...bashing MS for releasing a player with TOO many features. "Why can't it be simple like the iPod"."
They are afraid. They hate choice because they know that many other MP3 players have more and better features than the ipod, and are cheaper. Thats why they spend so much time bashing these other players. They cant just let the ipod rise or sink with the other players, they need to try to talk down the competition, even before they have any concrete information on what the competition is.
They see that other companies are innovating and bringing out new players while they are sitting around drooling over photoshop mockups some 17 year old put on Flickr.
sounds like this is a social device first and a DAP second...
wifi sharing of music with 10 people within range, connection to live anywhere. only thing missing is that one can bring it over to a friends house, hook it to the xbox360 and be able to play the music thru the xbox onto said friends aduio setup, complete with using the xbox to control the playback.
something tells me thing may well trump the ipod, if the social stuff realy works.
another trick that they can pull is to have all your purchased music available, so that when you walk into a wifi zone you can swap out the music your tired of with something new.
and maybe allso have a "currently playing" entry in your live anywhere profile. maybe complete with the option for others to buy the music on the spot.
just like a myspace profile have become a "must have" to be part of the crowd, this can become.
that is again based on it working as planed.
"Zune Schmoon. iPod killer!? Ha. Why is anyone really even bothering? Apple has a 5 year head start with MILLIONS sold already. "
OSX SchmOSX. Windows Alternative!? Ha. Why is anyone really even bothering? Windows has a 10 year head start with its OS installed on MILLIONS of PCs.
Funny. I wonder if OSX useage will cease because the hill is too steep?
TF, Maybe I'm colored by my own experience, but I would guess that most people are happy with their Xbox. It works as advertised, gaming is great and so is the online experience (and penetration). Compare that to the sizeable amount of units sold and you have a rather large (satisfied) userbase. If the majority of the userbase is satified (some may even be thrilled, outweighting the dissatisfied ones) you only need to get that message out (=marketing)--agreed that takes alot to do (and Apple excels in that department).
Of course Sony still has the largest marketshare, because they have been setting the standard for a very long period of time. My guess is that MS is following a well planned year-long strategy, which don't have to include taking the lead in marketshare or making money this generation. If they can apply and succeed with that with the Zune they may have a chance vs the iPod.
I have a question for MS. Why haven't u guys release a music/video store for the xbox 360?
Hafnium, why did you take the time to repeat what you had already said in a more longwinded form. I said it's patently absurd.
Your personal satisfaction does not make a product a success.
Your personal satisfaction does not mean that marketshare will increase by increasing marketing spending.
Refute that if you can but don't repeat the same nonsense.
TF, I was only trying to elaborate, as I felt that you didn't quite catch my point...
Like I stated above, I was only guessing that people felt like I do that the Xbox is a success. Now I got at least *some* proof:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Microsoft_Xbox_360/4852-6464_7-31355096.html?tag=uolst
Thats pretty high ratings, I would say...
The number one question still remains and nobody seems to be able to break the scoop....
Whose chip will be in the Zune?
Microsoft better integrate Bluetooth into this thing or that's going to be a big mistake. People are beginning to use wireless headphones and at this stage in the game - all new portable media players need this functionality, otherwise the manufacturer is just going backwards instead of progressing.
They also should integrate a line out jack and a user swappable battery. Two things the Ipod has never had, but that a player really needs.
They should also include a button lock - something the Ipod does have and is very usful for helping to protect battery life.
They should also include a dock of some sort and an AC adaptor (or USB AC adaptor) IN THE BOX. I don't want to have to pay extra for those things. Apple makes everyone pay extra for those things which should be included in the first place, but they got greedy and decided not to. This is one EASY way that MS could best Apple.
I'd also like to see a compact retractable USB cable included in the box instead of just a regular USB cable like what Apple includes. The retractable ones are so much easier to store and transport. This would be a nice touch.
And they absolutely need to incorporate the ability to store and play MP3's. If Microsoft only allows WMA's and forces people to re-encode all of their MP3 music, as well as DRM-enabled WMA's to force people to buy music from URGE, and doesn't allow for the MP3 format, they'll be making a HUGE mistake and their player will not reach the levels of success that they'll be looking and planing and hoping for. Guaranteed. In addition to WMA and DRM-WMA, they MUST allow for MP3 and WAV at the very least (and perhaps WMA lossless and maybe another format) in order to succeed. Maybe if they allowed for AAC (not DRM-AAC from iTunes, of course), then people with Ipods could just easily transfer their unprotected-AAC-encoded music right over to MS's new player.
I hope MS allows for different wallpaper and font colors (maybe even font styles) to allow for customization on the screen. Apple's white background is getting really boring to look at.
The last thing I'd REALLY like to see, is an integrated stereo mic and maybe small stereo speakers for voice recording capability. I really want to be able to use this player as a digital voice recorder.
The last thing I'd hope for, would be XM satellite radio capability and a bright transflective LCD screen for viewing outdoors in sunlight.
They could make a player that handles all of this, but satellite radio would be the only feature that I'd wonder about. If they do, they better offer one player version that handles XM and one that handles Sirius and not side with one or the other, otherwise MS won't see the kind of success they want. You have to offer both when it comes to satellite radio.
Here's extra credit: a small, thin RF remote control (and RF, not IR - no line of sight issues) that has its own built-in LCD screen that will allow a person to see what they're navigating when the player is across the room docked next to speakers and so on. The RF receiver should be built into the player, not just the dock, that way, we can use the remote with the player even when we're not dragging the dock around with us everywhere.
And the included dock should allow the player to be hooked up to the TV so we can see music info and album art, photos, and videos, and the menu system, all on the TV screen.
I think a lot of s non-Apple fanatics really want some change in the DAP market. We want something different from the iPod.
If MS meets Apple on their price and functionality, I really think they'll be a lot of people jumping Apple's ship. If they keep the functionality, increase features and undercut Apple's price, I really think they'll do well this time around. Even with the mediocre design.
One thing though, I know it's probably a flash-HD, but why does this DAP have more memory than my 360? Come out with a bigger HDD MS! And did anyone ever doubt Live Anywhere wouldn't make it on the Zune?
Just to chime in, I also was excited for the Zune but am getting less and less enthusiastic with every new update.
I think the real question is, does forcing its users through hoops with DRM, incompatibility, and price actually make Microsoft money? How could it?
And I suppose that for left handers like me the screen display swivels 180 degrees so that I can read it with out having to stand on my head or have Xray eyesight to read the screen through my hand.
This player is doomed to failure. It offers too many features at too high a price. If it's supposed to be an all-singing, all-dancing, video, photo and music device then why can't it store virtually any video. With a screen that size it needs to be at least 60-80GB and that's without the music and photos that people will want to load onto this thing.
The wifi sounds like someone's half-assed idea of a joke. Just let people stream music from the players in their vicinity. Don't try and tie it into this social networking rubbish because it becomes over-complicated and difficult to use. Also why can't you share non-drmd music? What effect is this thing and the half dozen other 'useless except to geeks®' features going to have on battary life? Will it be able to complete with the physical dimensions of the ipod - probably not?
I predict 2-5% of market share in a year at the expense of creative and iriver and never climbing beyond that level
Before everyone starts hating this thing why dont we wait for official specs of the actual product first. Also how this got into an xbox conversation between a few users is beyond me. My comment on that is anyone who does not like the xbox 360 does not like gaming. So far its looking alot better than ps3 and wii and the people who own it are very happy so far. I think the xbox 360 has the best chance to win this console war. As for the zune, lets wait because this is all rumor and nothing is finalized.
Sounds like a "budget killer" to me
i get the feeling that the early pics are fake... a kind of spoof of the ipod. as for the higher price... well, keep in mind that x-box and x-box 360 were set at premium pricing, but, because they delivered, they grabbed a large share of the market. the same may be true of zune... if it plays music, video & games... the price won't seem so out of line.
OK, Apple's just announced their new iPod line today, and lowered the top iPod video by $50. It'll be interesting to see how MS will tweak the Zune line from what we think it'll be so far. I don;t see anything impressive so far. Their best bet will be to have some huge beneficial tie into the Xbox.
Me, I got a new iPod nano to buy.