But wait, there's more... Zune deets

For a product that Microsoft hasn't even officially confirmed, there sure is a whole lot of Zune info to be getting on with. The latest leaks are from Digital Music News, who has been reviewing some of the presentation material that Microsoft shared with top-level execs of partner companies. The biggest detail that they've unveiled is that the Zune will indeed be basing its social networking capabilities on Microsoft's Live Anywhere platform. Not an incredibly huge surprise, given the functions we've already heard described and the Xbox roots of the device, but it should give the Zune a good boost in the direction of its 18-28 year old demographic, which Microsoft claims will skew a bet younger than that of the iPod. The social aspects, including that trusty friends list from Xbox Live, is purportedly taking some cues from MySpace, which seems to go beyond the functions we spied at our E3 demo of Live Anywhere. DMN also reveals that the 30GB Zune will have the "same pricing, look and feel as the 60GB iPod," which was $399 the last time we checked. That, of course, is the same price as an Xbox 360 Platinum, which might put the hurt on the cashflow of their younger target demographic. As rumored, the Zune should come in three colors, and that round button is indeed a scroll wheel to work the menus. WiFi functionality will be able to share music with up to 10 friends in a close-range peer to peer fashion, but to share a protected track your friend will have to "bookmark" the song for purchasing later. The player will be incompatible with other PlaysForSure services, focusing, we suppose, exclusively on their URGE store. There's still no word on non-DRMed MP3 sharing, but the outlook isn't good. Microsoft is aiming for a November release in the US, to be followed by a global launch next year. We would promise you more info as the release looms nearer, but we're not sure what else we could say.

[zuricher @ Jul 17th 2006 1:53PM]

they should learn the lesson and keep expectations low instead of leaking infos every now and then resulting in a windows-vistaesque PR joke

[Nikolai @ Jul 17th 2006 1:56PM]

So it's the same price as a 60GB iPod...yet it's only 30GB. And they admit to basically ripping off the iPod's design? That doesn't sound very appealing to me, and I can't honestly believe that Microsoft would even deign to "rip-off" the iPod.

Wi-Fi would be awesome, but how are people going to communicate with each other with those little buttons? Voice? Scroll through letters? I think it may be more advantageous to buy a 30GB iPod and then get a cell phone with the $100 you save.

Also, I do like the P2P music sharing, but that bookmarking thing will kill it. It'd be awesome if it was working a bit like a radio station in a small network - one person's Zune plays a song and all in the immediate vicinity can listen, maybe even communicate about it with the Zune. And then maybe buy that song later if they like it - it could raise sales by raising people's exposure to the song.

Call me crazy, but I'm suspicious of a device that tries to rip off the iPod in a market saturated by them. It's not about features, I think - it's about brand name recognition. iPod is the cool name on the block - companies have tried to rip it off before (recalls the forgotten devices on the shelves of his local Best Buy), and failed. It'd be nice to see something other than an iPod making a sale, though.

[Chris @ Jul 17th 2006 1:57PM]

Sounds interesting but until i see a final device and the quality of it i'm reserving my "yay or nay" vote

[Jim @ Jul 17th 2006 1:59PM]

A 30 Gb Microsoft player for the price of last years 60 Gb iPod. And it's incompatible with PlaysForSure (O the irony). Sign me up! :)

[TeleCustom @ Jul 17th 2006 2:00PM]

30 gigs for $399? WAIT - the iPod is actually going to have the upper hand in the price department? I think I'm going to faint...

[skluck @ Jul 17th 2006 2:00PM]

Wow, same price as 60gig Ipod with half the capacity. Sounds like a winner! It doesn't matter if it has many more features, MS should know that's not how you cut into the leader's market share. Dead on Arrival if that is true.

[Dolomite @ Jul 17th 2006 2:02PM]

The more info that gets leaked about this thing, the more I start to feel a little bit sorry for the beleagured software giant. They just don't get it. This thing will be as still-born as the Origami.

[hazelcheeze @ Jul 17th 2006 2:05PM]

check out the photo:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/haselton68/detail?.dir=ec0are2&.dnm=617cre2.jpg&.src=ph

Does this mean Zuma is a gaming machine?

[JinKazama @ Jul 17th 2006 2:07PM]

All this info sounds expensive and typical MS. I had high hopes for this thing but the more and more I hear about it the less enthused I get.

Apple is successful because they make a simple, easy to use MUSIC PLAYER. Everything else is secondary. MS is trying to make this thing everything to everybody, which is a mistake. Because of this you now have $399 device that holds 30gigs of music.

You tell me, for someone who wants a music player, who is going to bypass a 30gig 5G that is $100 less, has a truckload of 3rd party support, proven, and the IT item for the moment for this? Unless somthing changes I don't see a lot of folks doing so.

[LordJezo @ Jul 17th 2006 2:13PM]

"The player will be incompatible with other PlaysForSure services"

What the hell is that about? I thought this whole PlayForSure thing was MS's idea, now they are going to lock their own player from everything but their own site? I know it's not really unexpected but that still stinks.

[Hafnium @ Jul 17th 2006 2:13PM]

I understand that Zune is being developed by the same people within MS that brought out Xbox 360, which *may be* well on its way to take a huge bite of Sonys marketshare in the video game department. Let us not dismiss this "just" because it is a MS product... If MS execute equally well, they may do the same to Apple.
Not too exited by the design though--hope it's a prototype!

[glacia00 @ Jul 17th 2006 2:15PM]

Actually I like the open attitude toward development. It keeps expectations realistic. Anything else is just a game.

I've always felt the reverse or the "we've got secret 'giggle giggle'" approach to be more than a bit childish. And more prone to over-inflated expectations.

On the product itself however it is getting frighteningly close to sounding like they're following the Ipod model of "you can put it on but you can't get it off." If they end up with no ability to directly drag music onto it and force people to use separate software for loading it's pretty much dead to me.

This and a few other 'do it our way or no way' features have kept me from even considering an Ipod so I may pass on this also.

[diulei @ Jul 17th 2006 2:20PM]

Companies (like Creative) think they will beat Apple by offering the same or slightly more features at the same price. WRONG. They need to offer those functions at a significantly LESS price.

So, what is MS thinking? Offering a 30GB for the price of Apple's 60GB? Does it *want* to fail?

[Eddie @ Jul 17th 2006 2:20PM]

"See the thing about MS is that they have no taste" Steve Jobs

Since when has Apple been the frontier of new technology? It seems to me that MS just takes an idea and always try to make it better, Why cant they be innovated? they always steal products and i hope they get sued for there scroller, dman rip offs!

[Stuart @ Jul 17th 2006 2:25PM]

If in fact Bill Gates does read engadget, you would think that he would have learned some things by now. If these deets are true, I feel sorry for our pals at Microsoft.

[Antonio Rosario @ Jul 17th 2006 2:25PM]

Zune Schmoon. iPod killer!? Ha. Why is anyone really even bothering? Apple has a 5 year head start with MILLIONS sold already. By the time someone else comes out with an "iPod Killer," Apple will have already been to bank, deposited the check and is smiling on the way home. Anyway, by the time the next "iPod Killer" comes out, Apple will already be making some new cool gadget that we'll all want to have and we'll have moved on. The word "iPod" will probably be in the dictionary by then.

[And, no, I'm no Apple lover. I can just read the tea leaves]

And, please, MS! Can't you make an original design already? Sheesh.

[Tyler @ Jul 17th 2006 2:26PM]

The only way that anyone will gain any leverage over Apple and the iPod is by opening up the format. And I don't think Microsoft or (especially) any of the record labels will allow that to happen.

[teo @ Jul 17th 2006 2:29PM]

"skew a bet younger" ? Try spelling to not give away your own age.

[Wode @ Jul 17th 2006 2:31PM]

Two words: Battery. Life.

[Gordon @ Jul 17th 2006 2:34PM]

I for one welcome our Zune overlords.... :)

Seriously though, it's all conjecture at this point. I have to admit though I'm pretty intrigued as to what they're doing. If the device is price competitive (that seems up in the air) and the rumor of them allowing us free tunes for those already purchased on iTMS (I have well over 900) it could be doable.

I've been trying URGE on a Clix and I've been pretty happy with their service. If they manage to weave this into a whole 'lifestyle' thing and the Zune plays nice with my 360 and Live Anywhere I could be seduced over from the iPod/iTMS camp.

[Bobo @ Jul 17th 2006 2:35PM]

"The player will be incompatible with other PlaysForSure services, focusing, we suppose, exclusively on their URGE store."

With partners like Microsoft, who needs enemies?

[Matt @ Jul 17th 2006 2:42PM]

Wait, so I can't use the less expensive Yahoo server? And the player costs way more than it should? Stupid idea, Microsoft.

[whatever_man @ Jul 17th 2006 2:44PM]

I'm all for any player that gets mac zealots' panties up in bunches. Sheesh...thing hasn't even been released and it's being bashed to death already. fanatics crack me up.

Now if you'll excuse, I'm gonna go rock my 8-track. REO Speedwagon 4-ever!!!!

[mike @ Jul 17th 2006 3:01PM]

With partners like Microsoft, who needs enemies?

--

Just as Apple

[Magus @ Jul 17th 2006 3:02PM]

Since its leaked information i highly doubt the price point. Features alone arn't going to make Microsoft even make a dent in ipods market share. Creative and others have some nice / feature loaded or unloaded players out there. Those would have over taken the space that microsoft is aiming for a nitch market.
At the end of the day to the averege consumer it comes do ease of use. As much as i hate it nothing at the moment realy beats the itunes intergration with the ipod.
If Microsoft can make a compareable service i'm sure it will be welcomed by the consumer. Besides Competition is a good thing.

For the time being tho i'll stick wiht my zen.

[AriZune @ Jul 17th 2006 3:13PM]

"The player will be incompatible with other PlaysForSure services, focusing, we suppose, exclusively on their URGE store."

So is this a "Our PlaysForSure partners don't need to worry, we aren't competing with them" thing, or a "PlaysForSure is dead, Jim...the future is Zune/URGE" kinda thing? Or maybe both!

[sputnik @ Jul 17th 2006 3:13PM]

I don't buy that it will only work with URGE files. That would not be very "Plays For Sure". I'm sure that they will make it functional with all music stores just like any other Plays For Sure compatible device.

[Bren @ Jul 17th 2006 3:15PM]

RE: Posted at 2:13PM on Jul 17th 2006 by Hafnium

You may have noticed, Hafnium, Microsoft took Market Share from Sony by undercutting.
Microsoft is Pricing its 30gb at the price of the 60gb (which by november will be 100gb).

'Great Plan for Taking Market Share' Registered trademark Micro$oft

[Aviva @ Jul 17th 2006 3:25PM]

Microsoft always does this huge PR thing up front.

If we're lucky, maybe they're reading all these blogs and what not and are taking some of the criticism to heart. Competition is always good, although this current 'effort' seems a bit lame.

[Alex @ Jul 17th 2006 4:03PM]

Dear Microsoft.... please don't screw this up

[dave95 @ Jul 17th 2006 4:05PM]

Does anyone need anymore proof that MS (the mother ship, with all it's money, power, influence, and oh so talented engineers) copies from Apple? You would think it's the other way around eh!

Both Gates and Ballmer tried to convinced everyone ESPEACIALLY their partners that the Apple way of a close system will ultimately fail. Now they are screwing their partners by closing their system and making it incompatible with other PlaysForSure services. The same partners that played cheerleader for them spewing the same Apple Way is Bad message....WOW!

[caleb @ Jul 17th 2006 4:21PM]

First off I love my iPod. I am also a victim of the "Halo Effect" and purchased an iBook after the flames of my iLlicit iPod love afair cooled. I'm even happier with my iBook than I was with my iPod. I can't even remember when the last time I used my High End home built Media Center Edition Windows PC instead of my iBook. In fact a lightning storm a couple of months ago knocked out the electricity therby turning of th PC for me, and I havn't turned it back on since.
That being said, I have little to nothing keeping me to the iPod. I like the iTunes interface as a player, but have bought very little from the iTMS. I think the value of the DRM laden tracks are crap, and for me the PlaysForSure/FairPlay issue is moot. I think the competition that Microsoft is able (Trust me they are able to bring competition) to bring to the table will be nothing but good news. I think the WiFi idea sounds neat. Especially if it were open to anyone, not just friends. I imagine a menu where you can see what songs are playing on other devices in the vecinity with an icon denoting DRM'd songs and select whichever you'd like to listen to. My advice however, is to not let yourself get locked into anyones DRM scheme.

[Jeff @ Jul 17th 2006 4:27PM]

"Sheesh...thing hasn't even been released and it's being bashed to death already. fanatics crack me up."

It's being bashed to death because it deserves to be bashed to death.

Hey, remember all those other music players that came out and tried to take on the iPod? Remember Creative saying they were going to have 50% market share by now? They all got bashed too. And look where we are now.

We bash because we know better than these guys.

I mean, look. 2 years ago iRiver or Creative or one of these companies announced a player and I came on here and said "Why bother?" I got the crap kicked out of me by people saying the war had just started, iPod sucked, Apple was nothing, etc. etc.

Fast forward to now, and the market share situation is pretty much the same as it was then. When are you gonna learn? When are any of these companies? So I don't want to hear it. I was right then, and I'm right - we're all of us bashers right - this time too.

Whether you like Apple or not, the whole portable music thing is done. Fin. Over. Forget it and move on. Hey, I hear movie downloads are the next big thing.

And if the Zune is getting bashed more than some players, it's because it's almost unbelievable that the largest software company in the world could make so many of the same mistakes we've seen from others. I mean, isn't that the clinical definition of insanity? Continuing to do the same things over and over and expecting a different result?

[looney_zuney @ Jul 17th 2006 4:28PM]

Hey whatever_man,
Read the Comments being posted a little more carefully next time. Most of the people getting their panties in a wad about all of the details coming out about this thing are PeeCee users and not Mac zealots like you say they are. I'd be willing to bet that most Mac users don't give a flying poop about wheather or not the Zune will work with other PlaysForSure services, or have a Sirius or XM satellite tuner, or be WiFi, or serve their martinis shaken and not stirred because this Zune thing probably won't work on a Mac and therefor is of no concern to a Mac user. The Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter if this thing fails or is a big success. Mac users use Macs for a reason and will loyally continue using Macs even if MS actually gets this one right.
So, as a general message to all of you who love to hate Mac fanboys and girls, why don't you just leave us out of it cause we really don't care in the end. We just love watching from out greener grass as MS trips and stumbles time and time again.
Prove me wrong Bill... prove me wrong.

[Andy S. @ Jul 17th 2006 4:54PM]

MS: Hey, there's a new MP3 player on the market!
WORLD: That's good!
MS: It's not an iPod.
WORLD: That's bad.
MS: It's has the same pricing, look and feel of an iPod, though!
WORLD: That's good!
MS: ...but it also only has half the capacity of an iPod at the same price point.
WORLD: That's bad.
MS: Oh, but this one connects to the Xbox 360 in new and interesting ways!
WORLD: That's good!
MS: ...but the price, combined with a 360, puts it well out of the reach of all but the most spoiled-rotten members of our target demographic.
WORLD: That's bad.
MS: Um... unlike the iPod, you can share songs with this one!
WORLD: That's good!
MS: ...but you have to bookmark downloaded songs to buy later.
WORLD: That's bad.
MS: However, you can buy those songs on the URGE store!
WORLD: That's g-- wait, the what?
MS: Doesn't work with our PlaysForSure standard for some reason, though.
WORLD: WTF?
MS: It'll be packed with delicious DRM to keep you from truly "owning" your music!
WORLD: Later, douchebag.

[tf @ Jul 17th 2006 4:56PM]

I love those who think this could be good for competition. Microsoft will have a difficult time gaining marketshare, but they will gain it. But who will they gain it from? From the 20% that Creative, iRiver, SanDisk, Samsung have... Or at least, I would bet every 8 out of 10 customers comes from them. This will kill competition. And as has been pointed out: we will then have two closed systems, not one dominant one and one slightly open, kludgy one. Yes, Microsoft and its partners have no clue and will be reversing almost 5 years of strategizing and failing, and yes, Jobs and others of us said it over a year ago... if not longer.

Just read the iRiver interview: he's talking out of both sides of his mouth: we had to make it simple but we need to keep the features, we have tight integration with Urge but we want to work with everything, we have a close relationship but really they are just showing one of our products on a web page, yes, we used to have over a billion in revenue but I'm happier now than ever with less than a hundred million in revenue....

I can't wait...

[Hafnium @ Jul 17th 2006 5:03PM]

RE: Posted at 3:15PM on Jul 17th 2006 by Bren

Or is it Sony that is "overcutting"?

MS took marketshare by putting out a "doable" console, which is by no means perfect (no HDMI/digital video output, HD DVD and so on), but it was "doable" at a reasonale retail price and a full year (more?) before the competition...

I'm not saying that the Zune 399$ mark is justified, but 30 gb is enough for me, and if got some outstanding features that in other ways will put take it past the iPod, I might just get one... But they need to do something about the design!

[tf @ Jul 17th 2006 5:09PM]

Something, I wonder: obviously all of this info is being circulated in the music industry and that's how it's getting out: do they actually buy this strategy?

DigitalMusicNews says no and has been very accurate.

But there's just so many silly and fundamentally huge problems with this strategy (besides silly rumors) like things like:

1. There target market is younger than iPod users (18-28), but they are going to leverage the XBox who's target market skews towards the adult, more than the PS2 or the iPod?! Brilliant!

2. It's still bigger than the iPod with smaller capacity and higher price?! Brilliant!

3. It's got these community features, but no discernable means of inputing data... i.e, communicating?! Brilliant!

4. It's differentiating hardware feature is wifi which drains batteries, requires a present network, sometimes requiring login (no input), and even then the feature is limited to streaming only MS-purchased DRMed tracks to ten people?! Brilliant!

[tf @ Jul 17th 2006 5:12PM]

I thought MS took marketshare from Sony because there was no other competition. You can't put the GameCube legitimately in the same space. But MS's alleged Xbox "success" is limited to taking 18%, its second generation is still selling less than PS2s, and they've never made money.

[Billd @ Jul 17th 2006 5:19PM]

Apple fanboys are an arrogant bunch. They believe the majority of the population is in love with Apple the way that they are. So they think their tired catcalls about how this player is "junk" will actually sway people. Pleeeze!

That is far from the case, but they will be in full overdrive over the next few months to trip up MS in hopes that it will save their "beloved" music box. MS should do what they did with the Xbox. That is, use the arrogance of the competition against them and come out on top in the end.

What the fanboys need to do is hope that some real innovation starts to come from Jobs. Just making the HD bigger is not innovation. In fact, other than the bigger HD, what innovative thing has the ipod done in the past 2 years?

A. Nothing. The only thing keeping this player afloat is the hot air from the zealots.

[whatever_man @ Jul 17th 2006 5:26PM]

meh...all the zune threads are the same...bashing MS for releasing a player with TOO many features. "Why can't it be simple like the iPod". Of course the comments have the "I'm a PC user" caveat to hide the obvious fact that they're iSheep. Sheesh peeps, get over your iPod. The interface ain't that great and it was actually cool and innovative like 2.5 years ago. Now it's just a stale DRM-chained MP3 player.

I'm not saying Zune is better...I don't know...it hasn't been released yet. I'm just saying the iPod ain't the end-all and it does need a swift kick in the butt to liven things up.

Oh...and players like the Zen Vision was bashed to death to before it's release...it has be shown to be quite a contender by many review sites. Many actually prefer it.

Market share /= best product. Look at Windows. Ironic isn't it?

[Anthony @ Jul 17th 2006 5:37PM]

I am a recent mac convert. (bought my MacBook a month ago) however my other 3 computers are Windows and I use Windows at my school. I always get my hopes up when microsoft releases a new product and then find myself disappointed. As opposed to Apple which I am finding myself pleasantly surprised more often than not.

I believe that the "Zune" in it's current form will fail, and here's why:
1. An iPod (or digital music player) for that matter is not like a PC or video game system which has new softwares, etc. It's something that plays your songs. You can get away with using the same one until the battery dies, you break it, you want a new one, or you run out of space and need a bigger one. I cannot imagine MS releasing this "Zune" device and have initial sales that are spectacular. Why? Too many people have iPods already. If this would have been released say between the 1G & 2G iPod, it may have sold better, but it's too late now.

2. Most people are not going to care about features, they want something easy and inexpensive. While Engadget readers and the like might like to know about p2p Wifi and so on, most people simply won't care.

3. So Zune is going to let me redownload my files for free. That's great, but guess what? I have to sit there and let all the files re-download. It's going to take lots of time, espeically if someone downloads "lots" of files from the ITMS. I personally find watching the songs download as interesting as watching paint dry. Also, some music companies might not necessarily be on board for Zune. What happens in this instance? Also, what about my TV Shows? Maybe Zune only has UPN, FOX, and say CBS but ITMS has ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX. How can I still watch my Desperate Housewives now? Music files can at least be ripped back fairly easily, video files not so much. (We all know it can be done one way or another, but does the average bear?)

4. Everyone (The Vast Majority) love their iPods. It's not as though this is a true "Video iPod" or something that's in the rumor mill elsewhere, this is just a typical iPod killer like how iRiver, Creative, Toshiba, & Dell have already created. Granted it has an interesting bell or whistle, but nothing as drastic as say a "touch screen".

5. It's not priced to sell. $399 for 30GB? With $599 or so I can buy a cheap laptop which will have more Hard Disc Space than this device and use it specifically for playing music. So I can carry that small crappy laptop everywhere and if I need to run just use my Walkman or the iPod I already own.

I just can't see this gaining a market share immediately. It's not priced well, people don't need them over the iPod they already own, etc.

I suppose I must ask the ultimate question that I'm sure is prying into everyone's heads... Will Zune be available as Mac & PC compatable or will the 10 Apple users who buy this have to use bootcamp?... ;)

[Hafnium @ Jul 17th 2006 5:55PM]

Whether or not the Xbox is (or will be, rather) succesful in the marketplace I guess we will only see once the PS3 arrives. But as an owner I'm very satisfied, and I have been so for almost 9 months. So for me it's succesful. I don't have a source on this one, but it seems to me that most people are quite happy with the Xbox... And if people are satisfied with a product, it will "only" require marketing to increase marketshare.

[daschupa @ Jul 17th 2006 6:00PM]

Well if the UMPCs are any indication it will be the size of a notebook and cost a grand.

Really, if they made this a game system/ mp3 player/movie player/internet browser that would be cool...oh wait they have one, it's called a PSP.

And as MS' xbox marketing dept. so eagerly pointed out the combined savings of a wii and a 360, why not get an ipod and a ds for the price of one Zune?

[tf @ Jul 17th 2006 6:06PM]

Hafnium, that's a silly theory. A product has a small percentage of satisfied users... helll, any percentage... That does not equate to marketshare will rise with marketing. If that were so, Creative and iRiver would be doing great. Rio wouldn't have left the market, etc... All it means is that some number of people are satisfied. Growing that number of people takes a whole lot more.

Also, it's silly to claim a product is a success because you're happy. Most every product has its happy campers. However, not making money and not gaining ground on your competitions 5 year old product are indicators of lacking success.

[Billd @ Jul 17th 2006 6:20PM]

"meh...all the zune threads are the same...bashing MS for releasing a player with TOO many features. "Why can't it be simple like the iPod"."

They are afraid. They hate choice because they know that many other MP3 players have more and better features than the ipod, and are cheaper. Thats why they spend so much time bashing these other players. They cant just let the ipod rise or sink with the other players, they need to try to talk down the competition, even before they have any concrete information on what the competition is.

They see that other companies are innovating and bringing out new players while they are sitting around drooling over photoshop mockups some 17 year old put on Flickr.

[hobgoblin @ Jul 17th 2006 6:21PM]

sounds like this is a social device first and a DAP second...

wifi sharing of music with 10 people within range, connection to live anywhere. only thing missing is that one can bring it over to a friends house, hook it to the xbox360 and be able to play the music thru the xbox onto said friends aduio setup, complete with using the xbox to control the playback.

something tells me thing may well trump the ipod, if the social stuff realy works.

another trick that they can pull is to have all your purchased music available, so that when you walk into a wifi zone you can swap out the music your tired of with something new.

and maybe allso have a "currently playing" entry in your live anywhere profile. maybe complete with the option for others to buy the music on the spot.

just like a myspace profile have become a "must have" to be part of the crowd, this can become.

that is again based on it working as planed.

[Billd @ Jul 17th 2006 6:24PM]

"Zune Schmoon. iPod killer!? Ha. Why is anyone really even bothering? Apple has a 5 year head start with MILLIONS sold already. "

OSX SchmOSX. Windows Alternative!? Ha. Why is anyone really even bothering? Windows has a 10 year head start with its OS installed on MILLIONS of PCs.

Funny. I wonder if OSX useage will cease because the hill is too steep?

[Hafnium @ Jul 17th 2006 6:28PM]

TF, Maybe I'm colored by my own experience, but I would guess that most people are happy with their Xbox. It works as advertised, gaming is great and so is the online experience (and penetration). Compare that to the sizeable amount of units sold and you have a rather large (satisfied) userbase. If the majority of the userbase is satified (some may even be thrilled, outweighting the dissatisfied ones) you only need to get that message out (=marketing)--agreed that takes alot to do (and Apple excels in that department).
Of course Sony still has the largest marketshare, because they have been setting the standard for a very long period of time. My guess is that MS is following a well planned year-long strategy, which don't have to include taking the lead in marketshare or making money this generation. If they can apply and succeed with that with the Zune they may have a chance vs the iPod.

[thegrey @ Jul 17th 2006 6:33PM]

I have a question for MS. Why haven't u guys release a music/video store for the xbox 360?