Zune: what we know, think we know, and don't yet know
By Ryan Block 
posted Jul 21st 2006 5:22PM
posted Jul 21st 2006 5:22PM
What we know (for sure)
- Zune is the name of the project, the brand, and the device.
- The first Zune device will be launched this year, with more devices to come in 2007.
- The Zune brand encompasses not only the device, but the software that will drive it, as well as a music, movie, and media service the Zune device family will use for acquiring, sharing, and discovery of said media. Music will be the first angle of service that is launched, "connected entertainment" being the ultimate goal.
- The Zune media service will heavily leverage community aspects and recommendation; emphasis is being placed on using Zune to discover new artists, media, etc.
- The Zune media device will be drive-based, and have WiFi.
- The Zune brand is intended to be an entirely vertically integrated end-to-end solution, not unlike the iPod / iTunes / iTunes Music Store triumvirate.
- The service and device will not be PlaysForSure compliant, meaning you will not be able to use your Zune player with Napster or Vongo, for example. This will be an entirely new system. Microsoft will continue to support and develop for their PlaysForSure initiative, but all things PlaysForSure are handled by two entirely separate division that will not have any crossover.
- Zune is under Microsoft's new Entertainment & Devices Division, and is headed by, among others, Robbie Bach, J Allard (Corporate Vice President and Chief XNA Architect), and Bryan Lee (Corporate Vice President and CFO, Entertainment and Devices Division), which accounts for the division of this project from the rest of Microsoft, similar to how the Xbox project was also strictly separated.
- The logo we had is, of course, real.
- Microsoft's launched the Zune viral marketing site, ComingZune.com. [Thanks, bv]
- They'll be showing off the device by the end of next month, and will aim for a November release.
- Microsoft will buy your way out of iTunes in order to convert you to a Zune user.
- The Zune will come in multiple colors.
- Pyxis is the codename for their nano competitor which would also include video capabilities; Alexandria is the codename for the software that powers the Zune experience.
- A Microsoft portable gaming system is in the works, and will be a part of the Zune family. This device should have Xbox Live Anywhere integration. This may or may not be an Xbox co-branded portable, but is probably going to be the portable gaming / media device we've been hearing about for years.
- Microsoft's ad campaign will include a Super Bowl commercial.
- The Zune will have a bevy of accessories at launch; it'll probably be cheaper for accessory makers to develop for the Zune port than pay the Made For iPod tax.
- Whether the Zune media service will offer the same kind of all-you-can-eat subscription media services as PlaysForSure media services like Napster and Vongo. Supposedly subscription will be offered, but downplayed in favor of song purchase (which is the opposite of most PlaysForSure services).
- Whether you'll actually only be limited to sharing with up to 10 people nearby, as rumored, and that they won't get the protected files, but will "bookmark" them for later purchase.
- Exact device specifications for the first Zune device, as well as its price (though we hear it could be as much as $399).
- Whether it'll include XM and/or Sirius service as rumored (we doubt it).
What is "Playforsure" if someone could explain to me what this is and what it means i would be very greatful.And how it is also a negitive for the zune.
Thank , Lauren
Two weeks back i bought a zune gadget which was cool all the 30GB you know what am saying but yesterday when i was listening to it, it juyst stop9ed i tried to swtich it on again but all vain tried charging but stillb failed to start now am looking at it like a toy after spending on it 400 USdollas. I have a question and i need an answer. Is it that all the zune gadgets in Africa feak because thats where i Am or is it that all microsoft zune gadgets feak world wide?
I am loking for directions on how to use my Zune also looking fort instruction on all things my Zune is capable of doing
Please send asap
greg kaminski
43 vulcun Street
Wilkes-Barre, PA 18702
(570)819-3858
I am in Pennsylvania
Sorry, like it or not this is one of the biggest gadget news stories of the year for consumer electronics, we do the best job we possibly can at reporting the news, big and little. If this were a new iPod initiative we would give it the very same treatment. If you're sick of reading about it, well, then don't read the post!
Best, Ryan
ipod will beat zune any day. For one it is alot smaller than zune and can now have up to 80 gigs. zune s a complete copy of ipod and for a coppier microsoft have done an aful job
A new version is coming up in the near future.
Christina
http://www.prankvideoz.com
OK, what is that little cartoon supposed to be on the comingzune website? I'm going to jump out on a limp and say the big dude is Apple, the little dude is Microsoft and the bunny is music/video. They're trying to say that Apple is the big one in the biz, but Microsoft loves it more. :) When the little guy hugs it, the big guy gets jealous and starts petting it again.
Joe
Wow I don't beleive I invoked a repsonse. If youguys want to report on it, do it in one post. I don't want to hear about it every other post.
Prepare for the "You guys must be getting paid by Microsoft" comments. I am sure they come from the same people who say "You guys must work for Apple"
I think it's going to work. Sony could throw up a roadblock with a drive-based PSP2- but can they afford the risk? A well-crafted box for music/games/video will take the market by storm. If this Alexandria sells Music, Movies, AND GAMES- it will take ITunes Music Store's next generation of customers away. If Zune has Wi-Fi, limited file sharing, HD video out, and a DVR- it would obliterate Ipod.
Regardless, competition will serve to drive prices down, and service up. We win.
I think they're saying sharing is good, but your idea makes a lot of sense... i thought i recognized the big bald dude! Keep up the good posting, the more news the better!
Read this on a blog called metroxing, and thinks it's on target:
10 Reasons Why the Microsoft Portable Music Player Will Fail
10) First the rumored features of WiFi, Community & Trading your AAC tracks for WMA tracks.
WiFi. The MusicGremlin that is out now is proving that it sounds like a feature you want but the reality is that, it’s not all much of anything. First, WiFi is not broadband. That’s why Apple can build it into your iPod right now but why – when a direct connection is hundreds times faster? Also WiFi coverage is spotty – presumably you have to stand in one spot until it downloads. Who here really wants that?
sides, how well is Rhapsody doing with ipod owners?
It also seems much more likely that a hacker will crack that open within hours so every mp3 track you own will appear to be a m4p track and by noon, MS will probably be on the hook for a billion tracks and they’ll have to shut it down.
But most of all, how many people trust MS will get it to work correctly. They cannot get PLAYS4SURE to work correctly on every machine when it’s plugged DIRECTLY in – how are they going to get WiFi working and sell you tracks while you walk around? It’s not.
Or look at their attempt at the feature set today with their WMP11 player – it will go and grab all your CD cover art. Surprise or no surprise, most reviewers note that it cannot find obscure artists like Bill Joel or U2.
9) MS has failed in EVERY consumer venture since 1998. From remotes to Barney (remember those? And fittingly, here's the 'patch') to home networking to watches to WebTV to online music stores - that launched in 1999 but that Apple managed to outsell in 6 months CUMULATIVELY three years later.
And the Xbox/360? When you spend $400 to sell every unit, how many more “successes” can you afford?
8) Information is already leaking like a sieve. Any enticing feature will be included in the Apple iPod updates coming out by this fall or holiday season.
7) It will antagonize MS’ many partners – they will fight tooth and nail to hold MS at bay. So far, there’s Creative, iRiver, Samsung, Sony, Philips, SanDisk and others fighting for 10% to 20% of the leftover market. These companies all have direct relationships and many other products to offer to consumer electronic retailers not just Xbox (hardly any profit), and now another mp3 player. And some of these companies will be fighting to stay alive.
If anything, it further confuses consumers – do I want MS & their music service? Do I want Napster & iRiver & Plays4Sure but not MS music service? Do I want Creative & MTV Urge or can I still use MS music service? Or is it just too much damn work – how about SIMPLIFY with ONE solution EVERYONE else seems to agree on – itunes & ipod. Because people want to listen to music! Not play DJ - not have to use GoogleSpreadsheet to figure what's a better deal.
People choose the ipod for many reasons but mostly for CONVENIENCE. There are cheaper players and players with more features (I think even MS fans would agree it’s not in their most remote possibility that MS will design a mp3 player that looks better than the ipod) but no one beats the ipod for convenience.
ONE CLICK buys, and/or loads, AND syncs: music, movies, music videoes, photos, album art, podcasts, and/or audiobooks …
ONE CLICK.
Any bets the MS player will take more than one click just to turn on?
6) MS “marketing prowess” and ad dollars … stand back while the mighty gauntlet is thrown … er, yeah … it would be like Bill Gates as an ultimate fighter … MS spent $4 BILLION, yes BILLION dollars to try and take out AOL and LOST … if you can’t even defeat AOL – how can MS hope to beat back Apple, Sony, Samsung, Creative, iRiver & SanDisk?
In fact, they can’t even market you products based on their “fabled” OS – tablet PC’s, Media PC’s and that watch OS … all MAJOR launches that would sweep & revolutionize the industry. All TREMENDOUS flops. It’s the same marketing team – all ignored because when consumers have a choice, they seldom choose MS.
5) Their REAL REPUTATION. People tolerate their OS because they thought it was the only game in town … now, that it’s not and Bill Gates is leaving the company, what’s Microsoft again? When consumers have a choice, they seldom choose MS – certainly not since 1998. Because MS is the kludgy company with the not-quite working things with unattractive looking products. And of course, the requisite blue screen of death jokes.
4) They don’t really understand consumers. It’s a mixture of ignorance and arrogance … don’t get me wrong, I’m not claiming Apple isn’t arrogant either but at least it’s the right arrogance for these times.* MS believes that by asking consumers what we want and because they’re so brilliant, we’ll buy it.
The problem is consumers say a lot of things they want but in reality, not really. We want low fat food, car pool lanes and flying cars but we don’t really want to eat low fat food more than once every two months; we don’t really want to drive around our neighborhoods picking up people or re-arranging our schedules; and we want a flying car that looks like a Ferrari/F-14, is under $15k.
The problem is MS’ culture is built on serving Enterprise & Gov’t Agencies who say exactly what they want, when they want it and how much they’ll pay. They are brilliant at selling to them. And that’s all fine and great.
They problem is that’s just not exciting enough for MS. They want our hearts, minds & wallets. They got a taste of it in the 1990’s with Win95 & 98 and ever since has been trying to get into our good graces but yet, the harder they try, the further they fall.
They just don’t understand when we say we want something, they “deliver” it – yet we don’t buy it (see next)
* Apple’ arrogance is different. Their aloofness is the allure. We don’t really care what you want. We will show you something … in good time. If you appreciate it – you understand. If you don’t, that’s your loss.
That is also why Apple can’t really sell to Enterprise, they just don’t care enough to beg like MS. Apple’s sales pitch is – here it is. If we release it, we think it’s great so why would we need to say much else?
3) In addition to the clueless arrogance, the other part of equation that brings MS down is their bureaucratic culture now. After the great success and cash flow of MS Office and Windows maintenance contracts, MS new mantra is continuous & PREDICTABLE revenue flow. They try and create every new division and product with that in mind. Again, what works fine in the corporate/enterprise/agency marketplace does NOT work in the consumer marketplace. Consumers loathe the monthly payment – it reminds of their utilities, credit cards and mortgage but to bureaucrats, what could be better than a PREDICATBLE & MONTHLY revenue stream? Hence MS attempt to take down AOL. 25 million people write a $25 check to AOL EVERY MONTH! (It’s now down to 18 million people a month using AOL). Or their attempts to get into the cable industry or the cell phone industry – we just want 10% of your take every month. That’s why they thought they had locked up the music & movie industries with their DRM & servers – just give us $.10 to $1.00 on every transaction … why were they were so hot on setting up Passport and a micro-payment system or why Bill Gates bought Corbis, the stock photo company – pay us X dollars to look or use this photo! (Remember he built those 10 plasma screen savers in his house? He presumed we would all do that and buy some package from Corbis every month).
This is the only reason they entered the video game marketplace. They saw that Sony made $5 to $10 on every PS2 disc sold and that online gaming meant $10 to $20 a month EVERY month. PREDICATABLE. The bureaucrats dream. Their new virus protection plan – again, sign up every year! Or why would MS spend millions designing an OS for a watch? All they saw was the PowerPoint presentation of $5 a month. No one stopped to say, why would anyone pay $5 a month for a weather report in tiny scrolling typeface when the same amount of time spent reading a watch face, you could simply look up for a BETTER weather report ALL AROUND YOU?
That’s the main difference with Apple. Your iPod works fine without ever using the iTunes Store … if fact, you can turn off the Store so it does not even show up … you think MS will offer that feature?
That’s why MS pushes subscription music – PREDICTABLE revenue stream … or what they want to do with this portable music player – add ads. Watch ads. Get free music. The problem is when you decide it has to be a predictable revenue stream first and then design the product around it – you’ve become a utility.
Microsoft is the only high-tech company that aspires to be a utility.
2) That’s one deadly DESIGN combination. Before you begin every venture, the bean counters want to know how you intend to generate revenues every month. Now design your product around that along with the 200 things consumers said they wanted – never mind what might be more or less important – just jam it all in there – the actual consumer is the furthest thing on our mind.
Perfect example. On the TREO, to use the speakerphone, there is a button SPEAKERPHONE. You press it. On the MS Q phone? Under the PROFILES MENU, go two deep and select SPEAKERPHONE. Which was designed by humans who actually use a phone and which was designed by a bureaucrat who just finished a stint at the DMV.
Microsoft – the DMV of technology.
1) It has already failed. Every other WMA player company is much nimbler (well, maybe not Sony :-) so already whatever MS produces will be heavier, bulkier, wonkier and dumber than products from Creative, iRiver, SanDisk, Samsung, etc … (the Xbox 360 is the work of hundreds of people after studying an ipod for 300 hours – bwahahaha).
It will have some annoying call-home-sign-in feature that only a bureaucrat could dream up … of course, they’ll tell you it’s to help you find new music but basically if you buy a Mariah track, there will be a 30-second ad pointing there might an obscure artist you’ve never heard of – Celine Dion. The WiFi will work sporatically, good luck getting a track replaced if the DL fails or they’ll charge you $19.99 a month for nationwide WiFi. MS will lose interest quickly as they start to lose the video game console fight to Sony & Nintendo and when/if they actually ship Vista in the middle of 2007 and/or when Google launches GoogleOffice for FREE on the internet.
They’ll all turn their eyes to Steve Ballmer to lead them out of the morass (the same guy who admits he missed what Yahoo, Google & Apple) were up to. The blame game will begin.
Meanwhile, Apple will probably announce an 8” ipod with a nano mini dock attachment to make it a nano mini mac …
MS should not let their player see the light of day – as a mythical beast, it will do much better – alighting far fetched rumors but if it were actually to step out into the sunlight. It will seal MS’ fate and announce to the world with trumpets that MS is truly a utility now.
My playforsure Creative player synics in One Click, I dont see an Ipod logo on it.
OMG you are the most biased idiot ever!
For god sake, who killed your fucking puppy?
You are completely anti MS and a real iPod fan. I bet you own an ipod, but you don't own a Mac or anything else from apple. Seriously, you rant means nothing as it is clearly biases and not even to some company, but completely against microsoft...
bureocrats, wtf?
Also, I hope that is not the device. Because it is hideous. And resembles an iPod. Unless thats what they are going for? So people can't tell the difference, then under the covers when they switch they will buy them out of iTunes so that they never even knew they switched players.... sneaky.
As far as the price. $399, with a 30GB drive and a larger feature set is all fine and good. However, right before the Zune is released Apple will update its players with a similar feature set with larger capacites. Which will crush the Zune.
It is funny to see all the people who hate the iPod get excited about this. The main criteria for hating the iPod is that you are locked in. Well, guess what kids. Microsoft is doing the same thing. If the Zune reaches the popularity of the iPod is everyone going to hate it then too? Just because it is popular and they are making money?
This may be a great player, but why is everyone praising it when it is basically the same thing as the iPod, iTunes, iTMS model?
First of all it isnt 399 dollars...it is the same price as the ipod. Second...it isnt ugly, i love how it looks more than the ipod. You should keep your personal "look" ideas to yourself. Im not an ipod hater and im not a huge fan of microsoft....but i think this has a lot of potential that can over time beat the ipod. I just dont like the ipod cause it owns to much of the market. You want something like the zune to come along so that it causes competition...which will cause prices to go down and quality and everything else to go up. You probably havnt even picked one up...just dont diss it before you know the truth....i own one.
J Allard...
Nothing more to say...
HHHHMMMMMMMPPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Microsoft is going to win some kind of "most ironic brand" award now for PlaysForSure.
PSP vs. Zune ? I was thinking of getting the PSP2 and now see the Zune . Which do you think is better ?
I'm still wondering why I should care. If I have a PSP, and an iPod, will this provide something new? Is it going to be high-def, run on fuel cells, or project on the wall? If it's MS then I know I can't easily import media that I own in another format and want to rip myself, unlike my trusty Korean media player drive. Seriously, what are they bringing to the table on this? Another iPod clone, with a different pay service for the music. No thanks.
Does Apple not have SOME patent on a scroll wheel?
Force feeding the Zune isn't going to make it any more palettable. This product will be dead before it hits the street. It is over-priced, bloated, and buggy. Can we please get some gadget news worthy of reporting?
that songs kicks ass..never heard of the artist tho
'made for ipod tax'
So how much did you sell out for? $10,000? $50,000?
A little birdie just told me that Engadget is changing its name to Zune.com ;)
I don't get it.
"Zune is the name of the project, the brand, and the device."
"The Zune brand encompasses not only the device, but the software that will drive it, as well as a music, movie, and media service the Zune device family will use for acquiring, sharing, and discovery of said media. Music will be the first angle of service that is launched, "connected entertainment" being the ultimate goal."
"The first Zune device will be launched this year, with more devices to come in 2007."
Does any of this make sense? So EVERYTHING is called Zune?
Jesus, people get confused enough just trying to distinguish between iTunes and the iTunes Music Store. Imagine if iTunes wasn't called iTunes at all but was instead called iPod. As was the music store. So you buy your iPod, use it with iPod, and download music with iPod. And hey, maybe at some point Apple releases other products also called iPod. No, that's not confusing at all!
This is the least of the problems I see with this but it's something that immediately came to mind while reading all this.
'It is over-priced, bloated, and buggy.'
Dude, this is the second entry you've posted this in.
FUD. At it's best.
Man ten posts a day for one product - I think Engasget has gone to the dark side and become part of the "viral marketing"...
...let's just cut to the chase, being vendor locked to Microsoft's iPod will be "good enough" for most people, they will steal 98% of the market share from Apple, while die hard Apple fan boys will continue to use iPods. SOunds just like what happen in the PC market.
The above eleminates the need for all future Zune posts
How old is that apple lovers article? IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WMP or Playforsure. Also they havent announced price capacity or price. He sounds like a raving lunatic: "People tolerate their OS because they thought it was the only game in town … now, that it’s not and Bill Gates is leaving the company, what’s Microsoft again? When consumers have a choice, they seldom choose MS – certainly not since 1998. Because MS is the kludgy company with the not-quite working things with unattractive looking products. And of course, the requisite blue screen of death jokes."
"The service and device will not be PlaysForSure compliant, meaning you will not be able to use your Zune player with Napster or Vongo, for example. This will be an entirely new system. Microsoft will continue to support and develop for their PlaysForSure initiative, but all things PlaysForSure are handled by two entirely separate division that will not have any crossover."
If that is in fact true, I can only call Microsoft insane. As far as I understand it, it would mean that NONE of the music you have bought from a Plays4Sure store will work on the Zune.
The positive side of that though would of course be that you now get the chance to download every track you've bought, again... for a small fee of what, $0.99/Track?
Ah well. It's a great business model at least.
I overall think the project could be successful but I still think its a HUGE mistake to not use wmp11/plays for sure.
WMP11 will come preinstalled on most computers out there and being able to "just hook it up" would be very nice to have. I know they are billing this as a all in one service like itunes/ipod but they could have easily done that with wmp11/urge and a new plays for sure device.
I just got my toshiba gigabeat S and I dont see this new device being better. But I love the toshiba by far the best player I have ever used (and that includes the ipod video).
Aaaaaag, I am getting so sick of the Zune posts. Microsoft must be salivating over every content-free post of PR you throw their way. I mean, I'm as interested in this project as anyone (I've always thought the iPod lacked WiFi music sharing) but this is ridiculous. Every third Engadget post is just rehashing the same baseless speculation with the same exact goddamn picture. At least photoshop something new onto the screen every time, for God's sake (unless that violates your deal with Microsoft, natchally).
Gevalt! To paraphrase the Onion's Dead Feed (http://interglacial.com/rss/onion.rss), "Heard about Zune? Heard *this* about Zune? Fuck you idiot morons forever."
So they might allow you to download all of your iTMS music for free. Will they do the same for all of your Plays for Sure content? Interesting...
Who is bv and how do we know this is for sure their viral marketing site. Never seen Microsoft to get a domain and not register it for themselves. If its theirs and they admit that its theirs, why use Domain by Proxy to hide who the owner of the website it?
Not annoying at all... here's the commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS4qlYwTdnk
this thing would do better if it turned out to be fake- I agree
Also I don't understand the buttons on the device- well from looking @ it @ least
Also, sure they are just images, but this thing seems big
Also I don't even konw how mich you are locked in using the iPod, well you don't have to buy music, and there are iTunes alternitaves
oh and seriouly can't MS come up w/ a better name, but then again Zen is just a wiierd name for an MP3 player
"The service and device will not be PlaysForSure compliant"
Guess it really doesn't "Play For Sure".
I love it. Everyone gets in an uproar like this is an unusual amount of coverage simply because it's a microsoft product. Obviously you guys don't remember all the iPod coverage we've seen on Engadget. Story after story after story. How about live transcripts from Apple Press meetings, even when all they ended up releasing was a boombox and a leather case?
Zune is a big deal, whether you like it or not. Stop your crying.
Also, jbbeauvoir, that was the biggest pile of crap I've ever read.
What they should do if they're serious, and they appear to be, is realse a full blown Windows Media Player for OS X that allows for Play For Sure. This is what Apple did, and if they hadn't they wouldn't be where they are today. And to be honest even though I love the iPod I would love to have some options an I really doubt that if I had as many choices as Windows users when it comes to PMPs that I would still own an iPod.
Kevin, it's not that simple! I'm sure a lot of people would love it if we could roundup all of 2007's iPod coverage into just one post, but the news comes out in bits and pieces, and we write it up as it goes. That's why it's called news flow.
willyjsimmons, I said "consumer electronics." Whereas I feel strongly about Net Neutrality, it's not really in our realm of coverage, so only the biggest NN news is going to show up on Engadget. For really great NN coverage check out /. and news.com.
Anyone else: please stop whining. Like I said, we'd give an unreleased iPod the same treatment. Big news is big news, and we aren't not writing about other things in order to cover this stuff. If you're sick of hearing about the Zune (which has had a grand total of maybe 10 posts out of the tens of thousands we've written) feel free to just not read it, and go on to the next story!
Best, Ryan
Here is my take.
If their motto (or theme) is "integration" they should try starting off with the name and call it a Xune (pronounced the same). It would make a whole lot more sense of their logo cause no matter how hard I try I just cant see a "Z" in there. It would tie it in (vaguely) to the Xbox but not so much that the non gamers would associate it with Xbox.
On a side note: the naming also will make naming a gaming device confusing. Will it fall in the Zune "family" or the Xbox "family". All I know is if it had been name the Xune it wouldnt really matter.
The Xbox fanboy inside me (similair to the Nintendo fanboy reaction to the Revolution/Wii fiasco) hopes that this a just viral marketing and that it will in fact be called a Xune (hence the X in the logo)
Also I don't like the new color being thrown into their X-cubey-thing
Please MS, give an OPTICAL OUT port. I will pay big money on whichever DAP with an OPTICAL OUT.
Heh, well if you sign up for the newsletter, they send you a wallpaper...and if you open that up in notepad/wordpad, you can see that it was made in Photoshop on...a Mac. Lol...anyway, I love it, I just kinda wish the player itself looked a little different. It's not bad, but I was just expecting something maybe a little cleaner. I can't really explain it. Can't wait until November(?) though!
As a non iPod user and a PC user I am happy to go a day without some new iPod accessory story.
Wow...ANOTHER iPod cover...great.
Hey...ANOTHER fake iPod deck...great.
My portable music/video NEEDS will never be so extravagant as to spend $200 + on a machine ... but with each advance and each competitor trying to oneup each other I will soon be able to have the portable media machine I WANT for cheap. And that's a good thing.
So good on you MS ... try and move the bar and someday I'll get in on this!
I think you should ONLY do posts about Zune. For instance, you haven't covered "What We Don't Know That We Don't Know," and Donald Rumsfeld wouldn't let such an opportunity go to waste!
Zzzzzzzune. Uhhh, one question. How much will buying into this new "ecosystem" cost? An XBox 360 plus 2-3 other portable devices, plus content? Yikes, who is it aimed at?
At least this might spur Apple to releasing some new iPods before the Holidays (and may be even stimulate talks between Apple and Sony - PS3-iPod integration).
Has the Zune logo been changed? It now has a purple colour gradient in it as well ... or did Engadget just change it for a laugh?
Even though I respect Microsoft and I think that they could really get some competition going (which is good for everyone), I still think they are acting very immature and just not planning this the right way. I mean, just look at the bunny animation. It has Microsoft's name all over it. At least Apple can innovate and doesn't just imitate the other companies.
yes its been changed. that is the logo from the viral marketing site video
I can't help but laugh at all the Microsoft bashing going on here. All you people have to go on is a picture and an incomplete feature list and the trial is already over. I for one of pretty tired of all the holier-than-thou Apple crap. It would be great if Microsoft was actually able to mount some real competition against the iPod. Competition, even the failing variety, almost always means better prices and better products.
Sorry, but this is NOT one of the biggest gadget news stories of the year. But Engadget gets an 'A' for effort in trying to puff this up to be a big deal. Origami-redux. LOL
An unproven device, using an unproven service, playing media with proprietary DRM, at a price that will probably top out OVER the high end iPods. Clearly this device will be dead-on-arrival.
As long as the Zune can access satellite radio via WiFi, I think it is a winner.
Zune rhymes with "goon".
Sorry, but I'm not impressed. Whereas I actually am impressed with SanDisk's offerings as a serious iPod competitor.
Hopefully, Microsoft's entrance into the market will prompt Creative to drop out and settle their intellectual property lawsuit with Apple and/or sell out their DAP intellectual property to Apple. I'd much rather have Apple owning that than Microsoft for obvious reasons. Although I had hoped Creative would be driven into bankruptcy first so Apple could buy it up on the cheap and do some work on EAX/A3D on the OSX side of things.
Wifi on a portable is all about bragging rights over actual functionality. In truth, it'll eat up battery life like crazy. I think I'd rather have Bluetooth standard for Bluetooth earbud support standard (but sold separately) even though it too would eat up the battery life.
If they let all the iPod owners buy in their iTunes purchases it will cost them a cool BILLION dollars. Want to bet Apple and iTunes won't encourage that? "Just go out and purchase a Zune, transfer all your iTunes music to it, give it a try and find you don't like it, and return it for a refund." Now see if the music owners will give Microsoft a refund! Looks like much fun from here.
"An unproven device, using an unproven service,"
Unproven? Its a New device and service, what would you expect?
"playing media with proprietary DRM,"
That sounds familiar.
"at a price that will probably top out OVER the high end iPods. Clearly this device will be dead-on-arrival."
Shut the hell up.
I am usually a silent observer on Engadget but I’d like to put my two cents into this:
Most of you, who are bashing MS here, are either on an XP platform or using MS word to spell-check your post before punching into here. Come on… let’s not forget how MS has changed the computer world and that ALL of us (one way or another) use MS products. I am not saying MS=angel I am just saying they have a lot to offer.
As for Apple and iPod, we all know there are better players out there. I just spent a couple of weeks studying players out there to upgrade from my small Creative Muvo to a HD based player. You know what I figured at the end? Even though there are better players out there, iPod gives me a little more than others do with TV show downloads and other “little” incentives. (for example, I love Law and order, well I can now get the whole season and watch it when I the move or when I am on-call.)
Zune is just another player…. It doesn’t mean it is going to “kill iPod” or be killed its first week. It just means that it has to win consumers like every other product.
As for Engadget writing about this… frankly that’s why I come to the site everyday… for the BUZZ. I am doc so I am not as “plugged” in to the tech world as I want to be but hay, this is my daily fix. I look at the summary page, if I see something I like, I click on it and read it. Why some of you are bitching at them for writing about Zune again today, I don’t understand.
MY humbled opinion is as follows: Apple has dominated the market b/c frankly the competition hasn’t been there thus far. It is not going to take MS to win some of the market back from Apple; it is going to take a better player, with better service, features and other bells and whistles to do that. Adding an FM tuner to an iPod look-alike isn’t going to cut it.
As for looks, yah Zune is not that attractive…. But then again neither was 1st generation iPod compared to today’s (which is a bit sleeker.)
As many of you mentioned already, let’s look at the positive here… The only thing for certain is that the consumer always wins with more competition. If you like your iPod then great… soon you’ll get to upgrade for a little less, and if you are salivating whilst looking at Zune, then good for your too! :D
Wow. I have to admit that I'm rather taken back by the amount of semi-childish vitrol towards a product that we know little about at the moment. From the general tone of this comment fest, you'd think that Engadget had taken to signing off each post with "Hail Osama!" or something.
Can we all just breath and wait until substantial, verified evidence arises for the Zune (which I've been told rhymes with "goon"... still trying to figure out the sure to be paramount relevance of that relationship) before we begin to pass judgement on the devices potential. A company name is neither a reason in itself to slander or praise a product. Or I suppose that's my naivety talking. M$ sucks!
(On a side note, does anyone have a clue what song that is on the Zune viral marketing site? I think it's pretty cool.)
Despite the countless coverage by Engadget, I have to agree this is big news and should be covered as such. They did say they had information for a while but held on it until it was OK to release. So it could have been worse people!
But the fact so many people are so negative on this player is MS track record of hyping a product only to be a huge let down once it's introduced.
Origami
Tablet PC
SPOT
WebTV
""playing media with proprietary DRM,"
That sounds familiar."
Only because its the SINGLE BIGGEST FAULT iPod detractors constantly throw down against Apple. So...who goes and does it and (by the by) shoots in the back all the DAP manufacturers that have bought into the Plays For Sure license.
So, MS is not only going to have Apple gunning for them, every other DAP manufacturer (except the one making the Zune hardware) is going going to have a grudge as well.....
This is really exciting news, I for one can't wait for the Zune and all the excitement that will be coming in the next few months.
I can sense the anxiety and uncertainty of iPod owners throughout these posts and I find it quite pleasurable.
I predict a gloomy 4th quarter for Apple shareholders as Microsoft takes its rightful place as leader in the PMP industry.
BOOM BOOM, Apple has died...
that was the gayest cartoon i have ever seen...
The cartoon is cute, but also meaningful. Marketing 101 says that when you're late to a game, you change the playing field. Microsoft is trying to change the name of the game from acquiring and playing music, to SHARING music and whatever other experiences they can think of. I'm not sure if this will work, but it's a classic marketing/business tactic and it gives Microsoft a fighting chance...IF they can convince people that sharing music is important.
Personally, I have no desire to share my music, but I'm in my 30s and not exactly the MySpace/Facebook/AIM crowd to whom sharing and online personal expression is so important.
As for Zune itself, I'm hoping that the player and service are halfway decent. If they can apply pricing pressure on Apple and force Apple to innovate faster, that's goodness for everyone, whether you're a staunch Apple-lover or willing to try Microsoft's offering. Instead of tearing them apart, why not give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt here? This is a market they don't currently dominate, and one in which they will be able to dominate only if they best Apple on price and product.
May the best vendor win.
Zune will probably do alright as there are a lot of people who think Microsoft offers the best solution for everything to do with the PC, and will convince themselves it's just as good.
But given iPod's lead, it'll probably be a case of:
ZUNE IS TO IPOD
AS XBOX IS TO PLAYSTATION
That is, a big following, but not as big, and not as cool. So, smart but dorky people will buy Microsoft Zunes and Microsoft Xboxes, hipsters will buy Apple iPods and Sony PS3s.
I for one question the validity of these so-called confirmed and unconfirmed sources Engadget appears to have for this product which Microsoft has officially stated they are not working on. A viral marketing website, Engadget? Come on. Not only is comingzune.com not even registered to or by Microsoft, but the supposed trademark to Zune (as stated on comingzune.com) is not even a live trademark. It was abandoned over 6 years ago.
Microsoft haters are worse than the fanboys. They seem to have their mindset to think that everything Microsoft touches is crap. Obviously these people haven't touched an xbox before, because if you had, you would know that they are great machines with a very enjoyable experience. The path of the Zune is looking very similar to the path of the 360, and if they hold true to that form they may have the formula to success.
"Microsoft is the only high-tech company that aspires to be a utility."
Truest MS quote I have ever read.
This is why I no longer use my 360. I can't even watch movie trailers now because I don't have the "gold" live....only the "you're pathetic-silver" live.
Reminds me of the MS wireless phone they released years ago and promised all the great things it would do with Windows. Some of my schools bought them and they all died. I called MS and they denied that they ever made a phone.
Zune's success will boil down to whether the product is simple enough for a grandmother to use. Anything more complicated that and it will flop.
"This is why I no longer use my 360. I can't even watch movie trailers now because I don't have the "gold" live....only the "you're pathetic-silver" live."
I'm pretty sure thats a load of BULLSHIT. I've had silver untill up about a week ago. I could watch trailers to my hearts content.
Microsoft Haters Phail.
Wow. Engadget has gone pretty far to get us the facts from fiction! Keep it up :) ~ ZuneLister
Always grateful for the updates.
What I see as the cheapest ploy in Microsoft's DAP marketing:
Microsoft-Based 30GB Music Player: 15,000 songs*
Apple iPod 30GB: 7,500 songs**
*using Windows Media format at 64kbps (www.iriver.com and just about every other PlaysForSure manufacturer marking)
**using 128-Kbps AAC encoding (www.apple.com)
It's unbelievably retarded that WMP *defaults* to importing CD's at 64kbps PROTECTED WMA. Not only is the sound quality terrible, but they're imposing DRM on it too! (Don't know if the default's changed over the years but that's why i stopped using it).
But, on second thought, I'm sure that the 64kbps WMA is able to pack quality similar to, if not better than, 128kbps AAC. I mean, AAC was only developed by Dolby, Sony, AT&T, Fraunhofer, and Nokia - and declared an international standard by the MPEG group. I have no doubt that WMA can pack the same audio quality into half the space.
Good luck, Microsoft. And Godspeed.
You guys should read that Clicker's post...
When going through this list I had many moments when I thought 'WTF this does not make any sense', like with that Play For Sure not included. After reading that column I was kind of sold. I can envision myself browsing the Zune store on my 360 or my computer and transfering it really simple and straight forward to the device. But lets just wait and see what happens pricing-wise.
I think we can all agree that if MS can't match or produce a lower price for this device in comparison to apple's IPod, it won't happen for them. Sure they may have marginally better functions for some people. But heck it's Apple, and we all love Apple (except me :s) and Apple has it's great name and established base...
Also wondering how Microsoft is going to launch other country's. For now it all seems centered on America, I will get really pissed if it turns out this product is cool and I have to wait another 6-8 months for it to ship to the Netherlands. Can someone say URGE? (not even announced at this time.)
And how about a software player for other MS OS's. Can we expect Zune support in WMP? Windows Mobile? or wtf? And will the files be mp3 like? WMA like? have the extension .zune? Who knows?
But like I said, for now the most important thing, like ever, is pricing... And altough MS digital entertainment division has a history of selling under cost price, I can't see them doing it with a music player.
will we be seeing a Zune 360?
Microsoft reminds me of the schoolyard bully. They can't stand anyone else being successful.
Remember the whole DRM thing is required by the recording industry - not just Apple or Microsoft.
I wonder if paying record companies to enable iTunes users to transfer their purchased songs to Zune could be regarded as "dumping" resulting in Apple seeking a legal injunction to prevent this? Might work in Australia where I live.
Finally, any guarantee that Zune will be virus free? ;-)
to the person who said that microsoft haters should take a look at the Xbox I have to answer; I have, in fact I have the old model and the 360 (I tend to buy every console...). In the country where I am from (not japan but France), the 360 is not doing well. Actually it was fairly easy to get on when on the internet the hype said they where sold out everywhere (people you should have come to Paris as there were plenty leftover on the shelves of the big retail outlets such as FNAC and Virgin megastore), and it is even more easy to find one nowadays.
Clearly the Xbox brand is a failure only kept afloat by the enormous amount of money poured into it. I don't think the product is that great either. I woudl say it's an average console, very well designed for the american market and more precisely to teen loving PC games. Yes, I think it's competing with PCs, not really with the other two manufacturers... and I think the same of the Zune... it will compete with the WMP player and not really the itunes. This could be explained by the success of Microsoft (having a monopoly in OSes, the odds of you competing with yourself are high) for the Xbox... but my idea is that the two concepts originates from the same mind/group of people (the J Allard group). Saddly for microsoft it is as if a corporation gave a surburb kid (from wisteria lane or elsewhere) total control of the design of its product. And the kid instead of thinking would say let's put every cool feature in the thing dude! Awesome dude with this Zune thing you can network while you skate and contact your friends from xboxlive dude and exchange weapon for the new gear of war game while listening to Nsync and watching a movie, so cooooooolllllllll!!!!!! Who cares for this kind of device, with this kind of concept. Microsoft is a very efficient corporation that lacked a visionary guy... it's sad they took the surburb kid on acid...
Hello, this a music player not a palm: before giving us more features, start by doing what the ipod does perfectly: simple audio listening. I could be wrong, the zune could be doing those thing right but with J Allard, I have a major doubt furthermore, the list of feature (that I don't care for) scares me... To conclude, they won't be able to remake the Palm / Pocket PC story.
I wont say that I am a fan of Microsoft but all of my pc’s run MS OS and the ones at work but it is going to take a little more than buying back my music in order for me to change from an Ipod. I do own an Xbox but I have slightly more invested into my Ipod, like my stereo system in my house and my car. Its hard enough to find something I am comfortable with using in my car much less the aggravation one gets from having the wrong stereo at home and because that’s what I invested my time and money in and I know all I have to do is buy a new Ipod when my current one is filled or found to be old. Why buy a new product when every Ipod old or new plugs right in?
ryan don't let the whinny bastards get you down. You guys do a great job.
unless it works for a mac, zune will never get my money. it's not that hard to port m-soft.
i will say though, that portable gaming device would be great.
@Storm
Just because your too obsessed with your ipod too care about anything else, doesnt mean everything else is crap.It's more likely you were paid off by apple. Like Ryan said, if you dont like it, don't read it (or whine your ipod loving butt off). This thing has a shot at taking down apple, so all the fanboys are up in arms.
The song in the comingzune.com website is
Regina Spektor - "Us" off of the album "Soviet Kitsch". The site seems legit, i heard about it here: http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/07/21/The-Zune-Project.aspx#comments
Are you sure it's not "PlayForSure" compliant? I'd like to see a source, as you claim to know that for sure. Couldn't it be that downloading tracks over the WiFi connection will only work with Microsoft's service, but you can still use other services with a PC and the USB connection?
I am a huge fan of the Ipod and Itunes and have enjoyed both a great deal over the past few years. However times change and the potential integration of this player with the music store, OS, media player, Xbox and Xbox live is too compelling to ignore. I will likely buy one the first week and switch over. They will have to earn my loyalty beyond that or I would switch back.
Domain Name: COMINGZUNE.COM
Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: PARK27.SECURESERVER.NET
Name Server: PARK28.SECURESERVER.NET
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 13-jul-2006
Creation Date: 13-jul-2006
Expiration Date: 13-jul-2007
Rather sounds VirusForSure to me..
Another method for spreading those little nasty bugs..
Hurray!
R just a question... i wasn't aware that there was such a tight integration of the music store, OS, media player, Xbox and Xbox live... are you sure we have been using the same piece of software?
Both my Xbox and 360 are not integrated to my PC... I don't have a Zune... but to be truthful... I don't care... I just want a walkman with easy and fast access to a gigantic library of tunes and no hasstle or wasted time tuning software, syncing and other stufff.
I am not in college anymore, and as such, my time is precious... I'll keep my ipod for now... but I might sell my 360 once I finish Oblivion.
Isn't this exactly what Microsoft does? They just got a little beat up on their earnings statement. The shareholders want answers. Microsoft decides to let the cat out of the bag and announce a new product/software/os with amazing features that will surely be the most technologically advanced thing the world has ever seen.
Their stock goes up $.03 a share.
Then comes the push-back on launch date.
Then comes the news that the features they were going for were not realistic and the coolest features are going to be dumped in order to get the product/software/os out to the consumer with no further delay.
Their stock drops $.03 a share.
Repeat.
I find Zune really interesting :o)
I've recently launched a service at www.expodition.com for Apple's iPod and I'd like to do something similar for Zune.
The Pod SnapShots that you can download from expodition contain travel guides and location specific information for people and tourists traveling to new places. The SnapShots are based on the users profile.
Does anyone know if Zune devices will be able to read and display text files and images in a similar way to iPod?
Also - does anyone know how can I join a Zune developers group?
Cheers!
So I'm kinda excited about the Zune. While I would much rather just rip CD's onto a mp3 player then use a music store that's exclusive to one format (iTunes -- Only with iTunes), I do think a Zune music store could work out very well. Think of it like this, you buy a song online, can download it ANYWHERE with internet onto your Zune device and then download it to your Xbox 360. A few days later you can download it again with your Zune Music Player on your laptop. All of that, and you only pay once.
I already have an older 20 gig Ipod and a 2 gig Ipod nano, so i don't know if I will really wanta get ANOTHER mp3 player. But if Zune can bring something new to the table, good for them, and I'll consider it!
Lots of microsoft haters out there though it seems! To whoever said Microsoft products are "always" failures..not sure what makes you say that?
PocketPC and Windows Mobile is slowly starting to take over that area. Heck even Palm devices are running that as their OS now on some devices!!
Windows is still the resident king of OS's for market share.
Office is still the best office product out there.
MSnbc is one of the most viewed sites on the internet.
Xbox may place #1 in the next gen video game race in just it's 2nd outing (and the Xbox launched quite late against the ps2 and gamecube remember!).
So while Microsoft has had several misses over the years, they are still one of the most powerful names in computing. And as Apple has shown with ipod...a computer company can easily be a leader in home entertainment goods.
Microsoft will throw a lot of money into Zune. It won't take off right away...but.. I think it's quite possible that 2 or 3 years from now, Zune will have a significant percent of the market share.
Time will tell. It'll be an interesting race, and it'll be a fight that will be GOOD for consumers. But Microsoft has the ability of succeed here.
My two cents.
does aybody else notice the trend with microsoft? we got a "w" in windows. a "x" in x-box. and now a "z" in zune. then a "y" in why do they bother with this? or their just saving the "y" for a portable gaming device. soon bill gates will buy the alphabet adn make it go backwards since he has to be #1 in everything, or atleast try.
I've been waiting for Longhorn/Vista since it was announced by Microsoft in 2003 and I'm still waiting.
Now you tell me a Microsoft branded MP3 player and ecosystem has been announced and it will be out in less than four months.
Yea, right. Been there, done that.
I no longer get excited about vaporware or vaporhardware.
Call me when there is something on a store shelf.
im truly looking forward in seeing how this thing looks and plays. not a big fan of mp3s, but am thinkin of getting one that can play videos. id love me a Creative Zen, but if this thing is all its cracked up to be might just have to give it a try. although not at that price-point.
anyone know the name of the song/artist played on the zu web site
I really like the idea of WiFi sharing of your music. It would be pretty cool to share what you're listening to with other people. But I'm just wondering if this is just too little too late. I thought Bill G. stated your cell phone was the next new music device? Oh well, here's to competition and innovation. Good luck, MS.
So zune isnt using urge?
So wait... I must have missed it.
How much is microsoft paying for this coverage? ;o)
C'mon guys.. take a marketing class or two.
Please MS, give an OPTICAL OUT port. I will pay big money on whichever DAP with an OPTICAL OUT.
iRiver made a couple of players that not only had optical output, but input as well! Kinda wish I hadn't sold mine.
I think this is going to hurt the small players more than it's going to hurt Apple. MS has tried it's horizontal marketing scheme with music players & it hasn't generated a major market share for their technologies. What they see is $$$ in hardware. The Music industry see to that.
So MS is going to vertical market their new "Zune" product. The first thing this'll do is cannibalize the smaller market share holders and there's another issue to be addressed. Apple isn't going to stand still and become an easy target. The folks at Cupertino still have a host of things they can do to compete with MS. This is not a mature market and there are still tricks to come.
As a final comment - I would think the DOJ to keep a sharp eye on this market move but I know they're mostly impotent in monopolistic regulation. There, I said it. HEHE.......
I totally love my iPod mini and how it integrates beautifully with my iMac.
HOWEVER....
like it or not, Microsoft is beating Apple in word-of-mouth buzz here. And the device isn't even out yet and it already feels like a community (due to all the websites and Zune blogs that popped up).
And I bet the music service is URGE. It'd better be!!!
Why Zune? Why not Xune, or the next alphabet after the "X" -- Yune? I thought they want to utilize some of the brand power from the Xbox brand (which is, IMO, has a much better appeal to the audience they are targetting than the MS brand.) Giving up all the advantage a Xbox brand carries seem to be a mistake.
"An unproven device, using an unproven service, playing media with proprietary DRM, at a price that will probably top out OVER the high end iPods. Clearly this device will be dead-on-arrival."
Every single one of these points fits the first iPod too - unproven device and service, proprietary DRM, and a price much higher than its rivals at the time.
I guess you would have thought the iPod would be DOA too. A lot of pundits thought that when it was first released.
I don't know if Microsoft has a winner on their hands or not, but there's no doubt this will be one of the biggest releases this year. It may be the biggest FLOP, but it will be huge news and a major push from a very large company who has proven itself in other closed systems spaces (unless you don't consider the Xbox/360 a success, being better than its rivals and the nextgen version out a full year before its chief competitor, who may or may not trump its capabilities).
I love my Microsoft mouse. The Xbox is pretty cool too. Nothing would make me happier than to see Microsoft do so well with their hardware that they get out of the software business. ;)
It's unlikely Microsoft will buy our way out of iTune. The initiative is too expensive, takes years to become balance positive. Then there is the issue of abuses. Millions (maybe billions) could be spent "REPEATEDLY" for a few rounds of DRM hacks.
Apple also won't sit around waiting to be screwed. Besides, we all know Redmond hardly get anything right the first round. By the time Zune hits some marks, it could lag behind, minus a giant pile of cash still outflowing.
---> A Money Pit for Microsoft, that might not even make money after years.