Trade unions take issue with "iPod City" report

So even though Apple's investigation of the Chinese manufacturing plant that's come to be known as "iPod City" found no egregious violations in the working conditions (except for, you know, the long hours, military-like punishments, and not exactly "Cribs"-style living arrangements), at least one major trade union conglomerate isn't all that happy with its conclusions. Speaking to BBC News, the director of human and trade union rights at the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions, Janek Kuczkiewicz, noted that his organization was "not impressed either by the report or by the findings of Apple." Most troubling to the ICFTU was the fact that only 100 of the over 30,000 employees working at the Foxconn-owned plant were interviewed by Apple's special investigative team; and since the conditions under which the interviews were held is unknown (i.e. were they being watched by supervisors and told to just smile and nod?), Kuczkiewicz stressed that "we have serious reservations about the report." He went on to point out that there are other labor standards such as the freedoms from discrimination, of association, and to bargain collectively that were not necessarily enjoyed by the Foxconn employees. While it's certainly admirable that not everyone is simply lauding Apple for its inquiry and assuming massive changes are underway, it's also important to realize that when doing business in a foreign country, outside corporations don't always have the final say on how things are run; so as much as Mr. Kuczkiewicz would like to see the workers band together and demand $5.15 an hour, we're not sure how well that would go over with the Chinese government. Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that manufacturers are driving each other to find cheaper and cheaper labor in order to maintain already thin margins, and when that's the case, even a company as rich and powerful as Apple can do little to create the utopic working conditions that we'd all like to see.

[Via The Inquirer and PC Pro]

[Rick @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:01PM]

Now with this story, it's clear Engadget is just seeking hits. Gee, such tech news. It makes my capacitor flux.

Whatever.

[Jake @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:20PM]

My goodness, Apple has to either pay poverty wages and subject its workers to "long hours" and "military-like punishment," or reduce its profit margins! You're right, there's little Apple can do about that! Good thing all its competitors aren't shooting people, or you'd have to defend Apple doing that too since, of course, it has no choice but to stay competitive.

Or are you going to argue that its margins are so very thin that any reduction in profit by raising worker conditions would bankrupt Apple and therefore just allow another competitor to come in and treat people the same?

No one's arguing for Apple to create "utopia," just that it do what is well within its power to help the folks to whom it owes much of its profits. It's irrelevant how badly or well other competing computer companies treat their workers.

[Chris @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:22PM]

Good job stayin on this guys. I am glad to some one is following up on this story.

[Liam McNulty @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:29PM]

I'd say Apple has much more say in the matter than does the operator of the plant. Obviously Apple is an important contract for them; they're going to do everything in their power to retain that contract. If that means offering a few concessions to their workers, that's what they'll do... I don't think the Chinese government would object to more money flowing into their country because Apple feels as though their employees aren't being adequately compensated.

Anyone who wants to learn about the influence that large multinational corporations truly have in countries whose economies rely on outsourced manufacturing should read about the Burma Pipeline.

[js @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:36PM]

Why do people give a crap about this? It's not like the employees are forced to do this. No one is pointing a gun to their head. They are free to leave work whenever they choose. If you don't like it then get another job.

[Xophonic @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:48PM]

Its unfortuante that we take advantage of poorer countries in order to keep ourselves rich and our companies profitable.. But another way to look at it is what would those chinese workers be doing if not for apples manufacturing there. Then they wouldn't have a job at all. I also think Apple is being singled out a little since it is a high profile company that so many people wish to bag on in tech forums. I would be very surprised if there weren't hundreds of other companies with worse conditions in their factories and lower pay. It still sucks though, I wish everyone in the world could sit around playing xbox and getting fat like Americans do. But in order for us to consume so much, others need to consume less and produce more. Good times though right?

[LordFarkward @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:53PM]

rick, take ur arrogant insensitiveness somewhere else, where they also assume high quality of life is a given and whoever lives under that standard deserves to stay there.

i didn't see u complaining when engadget talked about exploding batteries instead of newest high tech pwn4g3 ph0n3 for the l337 like urself.

some people on this earth really need to suffer at some point. our humanity is at stake here...

[Jonathan Buford @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:56PM]

Something that I've not seen brought up at all in all of these articles is the fact that wages in the manufacturing jobs are trending up now. I am involved with manufacturing products using factories located in China just across the border from Hong Kong (the Pearl River Delta area). Over the last 2-3 years, I've seen the average wages increase by around 10-20% and the perks that the workers receive also have been increased (these tend to be better facilities with more entertainment available, etc.). In some cases, the workers are now able to demand signing bonuses. Now, look at where that money goes, typically into rural China, where the cost of living can be (sometimes much) less than USD$100 a year per person. The factory workers are provided room and board, and have minimal other expenses. They usually have around a one month vacation for Chinese New Year, when they go home and see the family that they have been supporting.

One other way of looking at things, take engineers in Hong Kong and then just over the border in China. There is a push to station Hong Kong engineers in China. Now, the salary for the engineer in HK will be perhaps USD $25,000-32,000 a year depending on experience, etc. In China, due to the difference in cost of living, the same engineer will cost around $12,000-$16,000.

[LordFarkward @ Aug 23rd 2006 12:09AM]

jonathan, good point, but i don't think that the main point here is about the wage but the stanard of living/work environment.

sure thing, where they are working (and so living) now are probably in better conditions than at their home towns. so are you saying this is a justifiable line to say 'ok we'll stop improving the treatments here'?

in my very humble (and idealistic) opinion, it isn't. seems like a lot of these 'big corporations' are using the aforementioned standard to draw the line, with the 'hey, they're better off now, so stfu' attitude. it's blatant that they are only "improving the workers' standards of living" just for the sake of getting lawyers off their asses, and then proceed to maximise each and every penny they can get for themselves.

a much more respectable approach, imho, is to shift more focus on the people who are working for you and at the same time sustaining (read: to reach, but not to maximise at all costs) profits.

my friends don't call me an idealist for nothing. but hey, they also buy my ideals.

[Helio @ Aug 23rd 2006 12:27AM]

I can't comment on what the conditions are at the plant but I would say that interviewing 100 and coming away satisfied is a bit weak given Apple's resources. Even weaker though is the contention that "outside corporations don't always have the final say on how things are run". C'mon now, that makes it sound like they are turning out a 1,000 figurines a year. The statement might be true of small companies and their smaller production runs, but, um, Apple's runs are in the millions and that gives them more than enough market power to have that factory run anyway it damn well pleases.

[Jonathan Buford @ Aug 23rd 2006 12:42AM]

Perhaps you missed the whole perks part. The factories generally are being forced by market conditions to improve the workers living conditions or else the workers just go to somewhere that is nicer. The cash is important, and you can't discount that, since the factory workers are generally sending that cash back to their family in more rural areas where it (gasp) allows for them to afford improved standards of living.

You have to look at history in places like the US for a realistic way of how things will change. It is the workers that drove the changes to improve the working conditions. The point of my last post was that things are improving, and are being forced to improve by the workers themselves because the market is a competitive market. This is much better than the customers asking for improvements, since there will always be companies, retailers, and end customers that just don't really care, as long as they can get the latest kit at the lowest price.

It will be easier to change the expectations of 1 billion Chinese than 300 million Americans.

[Ben Hobbs @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:17AM]

Jonathan,

Regardless of whether the workers wages have shot up 10% over the last 2-3 years, the cost of living in China has risen by 400% in the last 15 years.

In your example you show an Engineer who's salary halves when they get to China because of cost of living differences, thats fine and true - However a worker on minimum wage in Hong Kong earns 5 times as much as the Chinese worker.

Knowing Asia the investigators would have been given a sanitized tour (of all the OK places) and the employees would have been drilled on what to say. Apple should have turned up the day after the report broke, unnanounced, but that probably wan't in their interests.

[LordFarkward @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:33AM]

and another point is, jonathan, you are running a democratic society model for a communist country. people do not dare say anything. i'm from HK myself and have been visiting various parts of China myself. i even have a friend who's trying to run a factory there. u'll be surprised at how much saying power these workers have... freedom of speech, you say? no such thing there mate.

[LordFarkward @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:42AM]

to give you a very slight idea of how things work in china:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/August2006/210806Democrat.htm

also remember the china has only recently joined the WTO, market is not totally open yet. businesses in china is extremely relationship (with authorities, of course) driven. competitiveness is still near non-existant no matter what the officials claim...

[dave61 @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:54AM]

I used to run a factory for a multinational in southern china and have seen significant improvements in living standards of our own staff and to a lesser extent in the general population. The opportunities and choices available to chinese people are greater now than in 1992 when Chairmen Deng. But, it is not all good. Local companies care less about working conditions than western ones and the general economic and social upheaval is creating losers as well as winners.

Western consumers are right to look for low prices but we should also pressure companies to ensure that certain standards are maintained whilst delivering them. If this happens, we get the benefit of goods and services at lower prices and the people who provide them get jobs that would not otherwise exist.

In this case, maybe Apple investigators got a fair view of Foxconn, maybe they did not. But, either way, the exposure contributes to the general improvement.

[Kev50027 @ Aug 23rd 2006 3:15AM]

Oh right, they don't have enough profit to take care of all of their workers. How do you explain iRiver, Creative, and many other companies making cheaper, and far better mp3 players?

[Jesse @ Aug 23rd 2006 4:49AM]

Why does everyone make it sound like this is Apple's factory? Why does everyone make it sound like this is just some generic sweatshop in China? Were talking about a Foxconn factory here. They make *everything*, what do I mean by everything? They make Xbox 360s, PS2s, they already have the contract for PS3s. They make computers for HP and Dell. They also make Motorola cell phones. Not to mention a bunch of small stuff like video cards and computer cases.

I'm really surprised Foxconn has never been outright named in all of this, it's always been Apple and iPods. Never a mention of any other company.

[simon @ Aug 23rd 2006 5:09AM]

http://blog.mises.org/archives/005488.asp

[Rick @ Aug 23rd 2006 8:55AM]

Lord Farkward, you miss the point. The issue is not aversive to me. I'm actually very sensitive to it-- of course it needs to be discussed. But it's not tech news, it's politics. I'm simply voicing my opinion to keep the two separate. It's EnGADGET, not EnPOLITIC.

Would you go to a recipes website to discuss trade embargos?

[Brian Paul Ehni @ Aug 23rd 2006 9:30AM]

Does anyone here actually think that Communist China would allow a real, western-style, union?

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!

[Charbax @ Aug 23rd 2006 9:39AM]

Since Apple has 75% of the Mp3 player market, they have the responsabillity to improve working conditions in China. If we consumers don't keep this matter in the press and if we don't ask for a full and real investigation, then working conditions for mp3 manufacturers will not improve.

It wouldn't cost Apple to hire 1 person to live in China and report and investigate daily about the working conditions of all the employees. Why not make some films, interview the workers weekly, tell us exactly how much they earn, and how many hours they work per week.

My suggestion is that Apple implement a "help workers cupon" system. So when you buy an iPod, or anytime you want, you may buy voluntarilly this coupon for example for 10$. And Apple and Foxconn would guarantee that the complete 10$ will go to improve the workers conditions. This way Apple, if they really had competitive prices (which they don't, they are just selling from somekind of trend status) doesn't have to increase the retail price to improve their salaries. Even though a tax of like 1 or 2 dollars per iPod, imposed by the government would probably do a lot of help. It should be on the American and European governments agenda to improve working conditions in China. Which really can be described as modern slavery.

[i.p.Freely @ Aug 23rd 2006 10:43AM]

Hey Assholes, it's not Apple that runs this plant. It's Foxconn. Why aren't any of you complaining about Foxconn, they are the bad guys here. Why aren't any other manufacturer sending their HR people to investigate this plant? Why aren't you and ICFTU bitching about that?

And why isn't Janek Kuczkiewicz complaining about Foxconn, you take Apple to task for not doing a through job of investigating? Why doesn't he send his people over there. He admits he doesn't know anything about the interview process that took place yet he has the nerve to complain about the interview process? How about calling Apple first, do some of your own investigation first then telling us. But no this asshole too lazy, he just read Apple's report and comment on it. How lame is that!

How about take Foxconn to task for even creating this kind of work factory? they don't just make iPod.

And how many of you actually read the Apple's report?

[Liam McNulty @ Aug 23rd 2006 11:32AM]

Foxconn may be running the plant, but the mere fact that Apple is associated with the plant means Apple needs to be the one to react. It's evident that Foxconn won't change without some outside influence -- what better influence than one of their major contracts?

You only need to think back to the problems Nike had in the 90s. These days, companies simply CANNOT ignore what goes on at their suppliers, regardless of how far down the supply chain they are, or how far the arm stretches to make the transaction. The general public certainly won't settle for a response of "well we're not the ones running the plant" from Apple, just like they didn't settle for the same answer from Nike, Starbucks, Wal-Mart, etc.

Corporate responsibility has evolved such that we have terms like "triple bottom line," but the reality is that a company's traditional bottom line can still be severly impacted if they choose to ignore things like human rights. Sure, Foxconn may be responsible, but Apple should also take every step necessary to ensure this sort of thing doesn't happen in the future.

[Perrey Z. @ Aug 23rd 2006 1:04PM]

Oh my goodness. Would you people give this a permanent rest. Whatever happens in China STAYS in China.

[george @ Aug 23rd 2006 11:32PM]

I've worked in the region and even been offered similar accommodations. Most of the criticisms come from a serious lack of understanding. From what I have read the working conditions there are no worse than in places that I have worked, which is to say it isn't all that bad at all. In fact there are even a few advantages.

Obviously if you expect to live in a McMansion and have "fries with that" for every meal than few working conditions in Asia will not appeal to you.

[E @ Aug 24th 2006 11:31AM]

Posted at 11:36PM on Aug 22nd 2006 by js

"Why do people give a crap about this? It's not like the employees are forced to do this. No one is pointing a gun to their head. They are free to leave work whenever they choose. If you don't like it then get another job."

I hoe you're kidding. If not you have illustrated your vast ignorance in one post.

This is farking CHINA, a communist country where they run over protesters with TANKS.

Life is cheap in China, always has been.