Lifetime TiVo subs transferrable to Series 3 -- for a price

Ever since TiVo realized that it was actually going to be around for awhile and that lifetime subscriptions no longer made financial sense, those subscribers already locked into the $300 lifetime deal found themselves in a bit of a quandary -- how would they be able to upgrade to Series 3 without becoming one of the plebes paying for service by the month? Well current Series 1 and 2 owners looking to get their HD recording on need no longer worry about losing their lifetime subs, thanks to a just-announced offer by TiVo that will allow them to transfer that all-you-can-eat goodness to newly purchased Series 3 boxes -- with a few catches, of course. The TiVo Community forums are buzzing about a recently-recorded Teleworld-broadcast promotion, wherein lifetime subscribers who purchase their Series 3 devices prior to December 31st can transfer those subscriptions before January 31, 2007 for exactly $199; and what's more, this offer gives them a full year of free service on the box that they already own. Yeah, we know, you'd think that paying $800 for a new DVR would be enough to get those subs switched over for free, but considering that a transfer was previously thought to be impossible at any price, in the long run this is still a great deal -- plus, now the rest of us know that Series 3 will be available by the end of the year at the latest. See, everyone wins.

[Via TiVoBlog]

[TheKing @ Sep 7th 2006 10:27AM]

this just made my week!!


...now i just need $1000 to make this happen

[Justin @ Sep 7th 2006 11:06AM]

Not cool.

I paid $199 for my lifetime subscription back in the day. I'm sorry, I want an HD Tivo with lifetime subscription, but $1000 is a *LOT* of money, especially when my SD Tivo has *so much* life left in it - I even upgraded it to 180gb / 180 hours a few years back.

I'll wait until the box is $300-400, and then suck up the $13/month. And my SD box will keep on chugging.

Back when I was a kid, that was $9.95/month, by the way!

[Steven @ Sep 7th 2006 11:38AM]

Yes! Worth every penny. Just figure "lifetime" as 4-10 years and do the math to see if its right for you. I just can't imagine watching TV without Tivo.

Steven,
http://www.supersync.com/

[Pip @ Sep 7th 2006 10:44AM]

I never bought a lifetime sub because they told us they wouldn't have them on Tivo 3.

What a great company........

[Tek @ Sep 7th 2006 10:51AM]

@ BLAH: I laughed really loud reading your reaction. It's a proper one!

This sounds like madness and outright robbery.
I don't understand how TiVo does it...
I like good quality television and recording myself, but GOOD LORD...this'll equal out to $1,000?!?! Plus a monthly cable bill of usually some $60-120 USD? Does anyone in their right mind actually think this deal fair??

[Silver @ Sep 7th 2006 10:54AM]

Hurry up Apple and announce a service where I can download HDTV programming and stream it to my TV (next week?). $800 + subscription fees for TiVo 3? No thanks. I'm ready to dump my TiVo 2 as soon as Apple can make it happen.

[Read the fine print... @ Sep 7th 2006 11:06AM]

The lifetimes were always for the LIFETIME OF THE BOX. Not your lifetime. The fact that Tivo has been nice in the past does not make that fact any less real. From day one they have been tied to the box not the user.

Most people, myself included, think this is a GREAT deal. Don't be bitter just becuase you were not bright enough to get a lifetimed box.

[DirtHerder @ Sep 7th 2006 11:10AM]

I just wish TiVo was still offering life time subs... Maybe they could do that for a limited time for their Series 3 boxes.

Main reason is that I'd rather keep my Series 2 TiVo intact for SD programming and reserve the Series 3 for HD.

[Darcy McGee @ Sep 7th 2006 11:15AM]

> Plus a monthly cable bill of usually some $60-120
> USD? Does anyone in their right mind actually
> think this deal fair??

Does anyone in their right mind think cable TV is worth paying $60 - $120 a month for?

I know people who spend less than that on cars.

[Aaron @ Sep 7th 2006 11:46AM]

Quit complaining. This is a great deal and a nice gesture on the part of TiVo to longstanding customers.

The facts:
Lifetime on Series 2 is the lifetime of that box.

It was never transferable to another Series 2 box.

If true, transfering a lifetime subscription to a Series 3 box would be a courtesy on the part of TiVo.

If the alternative was $12.95 a month, this would make financial sense in less than 1.5 years.

Even at $6.95 a month (even if you could get this rate owning another TiVo), it would make financial sense in less than 2.5 years.

[Jeff @ Sep 7th 2006 11:49AM]

Yes, it is expensive, but if you want the Tivo service you'll have to pay it. I've got the free guide service from TV Guide through my Samsung DVR.

[Jigsaw hc @ Sep 7th 2006 12:01PM]

I hope they extend the deal to transfer the subscription because until the Series 3 is about $300 I can't afford one.

[Otto @ Sep 7th 2006 12:01PM]

I've had a Series 1 Tivo for a long, long time. Never bothered to get a Series 2 because the new features are frankly not interesting to me.

I'd consider getting a series 3, but $1000 is too rich for my blood. I can build a better DVR for half the price.

As a long time Tivo user and techno-nerd, the competition is between TIVO and DIY DVR-recorders. And at the moment, DIY wins on price, features, and even (recently) user interface. Tivo used to be better on two of those three, but with Series 3, it doesn't appear to compete on any level anymore.

MythTV, here I come.

[Don Herbert @ Sep 7th 2006 12:09PM]

Keep in mind that most will automatically save the rental fee on their DVR cable box. For my craptacular Moto DVR 6412 III, this is about $10/month. The cost of a cable card is $25 OTD with no monthly fee. Therefore, at $200 lifetime trade up, this pays for itself pretty quickly.

The Math:

$200 up front for lifetime.
$25 up front for cablecard purchase. Total upfront $225.

Saving $6.95 per month for additional TiVo box
Saving $9.95 per month that I don't have to give to Comcast. Total savings: $16.90/month.


$225/$16.90 = 13. This pays for itself in a little over 13 months.

[Tom @ Sep 7th 2006 12:32PM]

I may not do this for my series 2 which is working ok, but I still have a series 1 with a lifetime subscription that this may make sense for. So the question to me becomes would I trade in the christmas xbox360 with games, etc. for a series 3 upgrade to my series 1. Considering how much more I use my tivo, it may be worth it to me. I'm glad they are offering this.

[Wry Cooter @ Sep 7th 2006 1:05PM]

The original lifetime sub was for the lifetime of that particular Tivo, not any new ones you get.

I'm glad to be able to transfer. The downside is, with the price of the new Series 3 (at least with the storage I would want), I am probably not going to be buying one by the deadline.

They want to pump Holiday sales sure, but I barely see anything on the tube worth recording. That is the biggest difficulty for the move to HDTV-- current TV is crap, and old TV is all NTSC.

And as far as the typical affordable HD sets at the typical Walmart,
the one I saw with the best picture, had the worst motion picture artifacts (the big boxy pixels), while the other sets showed obvious compression artifacts constantly.

[ej @ Sep 7th 2006 12:52PM]

@Don
Sorry Don, but you didn't include the up-front cost of the TiVo. Your equation should be: $1,025/$16.90=60.6.

Yes, 5 and a half years before you break even.

[ej @ Sep 7th 2006 12:57PM]

Whoops, just 5 years not 5 and a half.

Regardless, the point remains the same. TiVo will probably be on Series 6 by then...that is if IPTV hasn't taken over.

[Griffon @ Sep 7th 2006 1:14PM]

Not to cool IMO. Everybody else dose guild data for $0-5. The very high (on top of cable/sat) guild fee's through Tivo have always been a use turn off to me, particularly when they turn around and sell everybody's usage data.
I don't have a life time sub (wasn't an option on my HD Direct Tivo of course, but then the data was only $5, and that chafed me too), even I think that lifers should be able to move their subs to the new box, this just seems like price gouging and a way to deliberately deflate their own market at launch (maybe low quantities or something are inspiring them to want things to move slow... don't know).

[Alex @ Sep 7th 2006 2:10PM]

ej,
your equation assumes we will have to pay the msrp of $800. We all know that the MSRP is never what you pay.

[Jeff @ Sep 7th 2006 1:39PM]

"The original lifetime sub was for the lifetime of that particular Tivo, not any new ones you get."

And that's why I always told people the "lifetime" sub was a scam. It was never a popular view, but I always paid by the month knowing that as upgrades came, "lifetime" users would get the shaft.

I haven't had TiVo for a while now but if I figured out my monthly payment compared to an original "lifetime" sub plus this new transfer fee (a total of $525 with the cost at that time), I'd be way ahead right now if I'd kept my TiVo and upgraded to a new one just continuing to pay by the month.

I also still think it's basically bait & switch. I mean yeah, fine print blah blah blah, but when you say "lifetime" and you're talking about a *service*, most people are going to naturally assume that applies to their lifetime, not the equipment lifetime. It's like saying you have a lifetime subscription to OnStar. Would you naturally think that meant it applied to the "lifetime" of the *car*? Companies have been prosecuted for less than this; it's misleading advertising. So I don't fault those who are pissed off about this. It doesn't apply to me because a) I did monthly, and b) I no longer even have TiVo anymore, but if I was a lifetime subscriber, I'd probably be pissed too.

btw, I would love to have TiVo again now that Series 3 exists, but I can't see paying $800 right now. I hate my Cablevision DVR, though.

[paul @ Sep 7th 2006 1:55PM]

Hahaha. A few years ago I bought an Elgato EyeTV instead of Tivo, and I'm really glad I did. No subscription fees, I can take my shows anywhere without approval from some greedy company, and I don't have to worry about being stabbed in the back with fine print that was designed to trick people.

[pete @ Sep 7th 2006 1:54PM]

@Don Herbert

What cable provider do you have?
Around these parts, cablecards are $6 a month, each.
(Cablevision, NY).

[JoelW @ Sep 7th 2006 7:19PM]

Prior to this annoucement, I wasn't sure if I were going to get a Vista Windows MCE with CableCard when they are released some time in 2007 or a Tivo Series 3. As a result of this annoucement, I canceled an order for a very nice pair of speakers so I have the cash to buy the Series 3 at release.

I currently have a XP MCE and the interface is ok, but I much prefer the Tivo. My wife took a look at the MCE interface after using the Tivo for the last three years and didn't even want to touch it. The WAF is off the charts with the Tivo and cannot be discounted.

Considering what it will cost for a new PC + Vista that supports CableCard, the $1000 overall cost seems like a bargain to me. This is assuming that retailers sell the Tivo at MSRP at launch.

I confirmed with Verizon that the CableCard will rent for less than $5 a month, so I'll be in good shape there too.

[Christopher Todd @ Sep 7th 2006 2:20PM]

"I'd consider getting a series 3, but $1000 is too rich for my blood. I can build a better DVR for half the price."

I would like to see you prove that! You might be able to build an adequate DVR. I will give you that. But better? I seriously doubt it. Have you ever even used a TiVo?

[snark @ Sep 7th 2006 2:22PM]

"Quit complaining. This is a great deal and a nice gesture on the part of TiVo to longstanding customers."

My feelings exactly! You ungrateful couch potatoes. How dare all of you to insinuate that Tivo has been nothing more than a greedy corporate behemoth looking only to keep their flailing, moneypit business model afloat for another 6 months before it files for Chapt 11! All they're really asking of it's loyal "lifetime" customers is to shell out an extra $800 for their hard drive enclosure and they'll happily transfer your "lifetime" subscript for an extra 2 Ben Frankie after which you'll be swaddled in the warm easy glow of HD goodness. You'll never have to ever get off of that stinky couch, or look for a girlfriend, or spend anytime outdoors. All of you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself for hurling such insults and unfounded accusations. All of you should instead THANK Tivo and happily sell enough of your blood to buy that Series 3 as soon as it comes out.

[fumbducker @ Sep 7th 2006 3:00PM]

correct me if i am wrong, please do, but this thing doesnt work for hd from directv? my current series 2 records standard def directv... if it does, i will gladly pay to transfer my sub. if as i suspect it does not, then thanks for nothing tivo.

[John Laur @ Sep 7th 2006 3:01PM]

Here's the actual fact on lifetime subscriptions as it currently stands (ie without this $199 transfer supposition).

1) Lifetime subscription did not always necessarily state explicitly that it was the lifetime of the tivo unit. This specific langage was added to the agreement on January 22, 2000. Users activating lifetime subscription on or before 1/21/2000 are eligible for a 1-TIME grandfather transfer to another unit. It has been CONFIRMED by tivo that the grandfather transfer from a S1 lifetime activated on or before 1/21/2000 is valid to a Series 3. There is a specific tivo case number to cite when asking for this transfer. This grandfathered transfer follows the Series 1 TiVo itself, so it's transferrable. Ie you can buy a series 1 tivo activated prior to this date and transfer the service to another tivo ONCE without a fee. I know this pain all too well, having activated my Tivo service on 1/27/2000 making me ineligilbe by less than 1 week!

2) Lifetime service (activated on any date) was transferrable from any Series 1 tivo to a Series 2 tivo in a special promotion launched by tivo shortly after the release of the series 2. It has been presumed that TiVo would offer some promotion to move lifetime to the series 3 so this $199 thing isn't all that unbelievable.

3) Having a box with lifetime subscription entitles you to a multi-service discount on another box whether or not you pay a monthly fee to tivo for anything. With multi service discount you'd pay only 6.95/mo for the Series 3 subscription.. So that being said, if you already *have* a lifetime sub tivo, you will only save money vs a subscription fee if you keep the Series 3 active longer than 29 months. (Plus you would lose the lifetime subscription on your existing unit)

[BLAH @ Sep 7th 2006 4:17PM]

@ John Laur - thanks, I am one of those pre 2000 people who had to buy it once, then again from dtv - who btw also did it for the house and not the unit - and now am being asked for another $200 - when it WAS bought for MY lifetime, not the box.

Finally and MORE importantly, I said I hope they die a painful CHAPTER 13 - liquidation. Not 11 (reorganization).

[Tek @ Sep 7th 2006 4:38PM]

OK, let me clarify for all the people that think I'm being crazy on what I meant by "out of their right minds." I don't have and never have had TiVo. But I think that it's downright ridiculous people should pay this much for PVR DVR menu guide--whatever. We've been recording media on our own with VHS for years, and yes, while the quality was less than amazing back in the day, it was doable. It was as expensive as you were willing to pay cassette tapes for. How is it that we're to feel bad about bittorrenting television shows that have just broadcasted when it's the exact same as if I'd recorded it to DVD or VHS myself while I was out?
I suppose I cannot justify the price for something that used to be so much cheaper (granted, with a less than stellar user experience, but still). Technology is advancing and supposed to be getting cheaper, I thought. Maybe young families are most certainly not the target of TiVo? I just don't get it. I also don't get cable companies that charge you for normally free OTA channels now either, so maybe I am crazy.

[Rufus @ Sep 7th 2006 7:31PM]

This company is going to die a horrible flaming death at $800/unit + subscription fee. What TiVo principally offers is a good interface, better than the junk you get out of cable DVRs and current HTPC software/tuner cards these days.

But there is nothing magical about what they sell, which is why the cable & sat. companies are simply integrating up into their market space. Hell, my old ReplayTV still kicks the sh*t out of TiVo from an interface/performance perspective and that thing hasn't been updated or improved in years and years now. There is nothing very complicated about any of this.

Microsoft wants to own this space, the cable companies, the satellite companies even the phone companies want to own it. TiVo has to deliver a shocking value proposition to stay afloat and fend off these deep-pocketed competitors who don't even care about making money off what TiVo does.

If it were me, I wouldn't pay to transfer the license, because $13 a month until they fold is a lot more attractive than $199 until they go bankrupt, which isn't likely to take the 16 months to where you break even if this is their business plan.

[JamesB @ Sep 7th 2006 8:12PM]

CRIPES! I wouldn't call this "transfer series 1/2 lifetime to series 3". It's more like "you can purchase a lifetime for series 3 if you cancel your series 1/w lifetime". No thanks. The transfer deal from Series 1 lifetime to series 2 was a true transfer.

Tivo really wants to get people off series 1, dont' they? I guess selling 3 is part of it. My May 2000 series 1 w/ lifetime is alive and kicking. There's no stopping it. ..and I don't see this offer as one good enough to do it. (unless grand total for transfer and unit is less than $600).

[gdub @ Sep 8th 2006 1:15AM]

hey tivo, you suck. i'll stick with my comcast digital cable dvr box that only cost 5 bucks a month extra. it may not be as good as tivo but damn tivo is such a ripoff! FU tivo

[h00ligan @ Sep 8th 2006 2:39AM]

unfortunately, tivo is all but ensuring that cable subscribers continue on with the crap scientific atlanta. I would much rather get a cable card and a tivo, but at $8 for the cable card, $8 for the tivo sub, $800 for the unit.. well , my $6 a month would take a long ass time to add up to even half of that- which could MAYBE , ARGUABLY, POSSIBLY make buying one worthwhile.

Sorry TIVO, at this rate you'll be out of business soon.

[scott @ Sep 8th 2006 8:51AM]

Hmm.. I got my father the first verison of TiVo years ago and when he wanted to upgrade, I called the company and laid out the problem: We'd like to spend more money on a new TiVo, but won't because we would not be able to transfer the lifetime subscription.

TiVo made it happen no muss, no fuss, and certianly with no fee.

[Scott Ellsworth @ Sep 19th 2006 12:17PM]

If you are complaining about the $800 the box costs, suck it up. Either it is worth it, in which case you should buy it, or it is not, and you should not. For me, television without TiVo is unwatchable, so really the question (for me) is whether this makes HD worth buying now. There is not a lot of content, and this same box will cost half this price in a year and a half, so there is an argument to waiting. Smaller HDTVs are now within my price range, though, so there is an argument to buying now. In either case, it comes down to what it is worth to me.

That said, the lifetime offer will end at the end of the year, and the price is unlikely to drop in that time. Thus, the opportunity cost of the subscription rears its ugly head. If it drops by half in a year and change, it would take two years to recover the opportunity cost you are paying to get it today, and so if you are keeping this thing for three years, you break even.

As far as the $800 price, this is about what the tech inside the shiny box costs, after you add typical retail markup. The box apparently costs about $500 wholesale, which is what best buy and circuit city pay. You do not stab your retailers by discounting MSRP, and so they have to sell them for $800 at their own store, assuming that we have the retail prices about right. Again, is that worth it to you? It might be for me, but I am still a bit on the fence.

I suspect that the increased margin on their own sales is why they are only offering a lifetime transfer for sales from their web store. They get more up-front cash, to make up for the lack of $14 a month service fees. Fair? Perhaps - the customers who go to a big box retailer are choosing to direct more of the money to best buy/circuit city, in exchange for keeping more of it.

Scott