Review roundup: Pogue and Mossberg on the Zune experience

After having already seen photo galleries, video walkthroughs, and endless spec sheets focused on Microsoft's upcoming Zune player, there's no real need to hear Walt Mossberg's and David Pogue's take on the attempted iPod-assassin -- but we'd be lying if we said that we had absolutely no interest in learning the opinions of two of the day's most influential tech journalists with regard to one of the most hyped consumer electronics products of the year. In their thorough write-ups, both Pogue and Mossberg tell us what we pretty much already knew about the device, and which can best be summed up by this variation on a famous political retort: "Mr. Ballmer, I served with the iPod; I knew the iPod; the iPod was a friend of mine. Mr. Ballmer, your Zune is no iPod."

Specifically, each of these esteemed reviewers found the Zune lacking in terms of portability ("The Zune looks big and blocky, sort of like a prototype for a gadget, rather than a finished product," said Mossberg), battery life (less than the iPod's, or even Microsoft's own claims), and content selection (there are currently no movies, TV shows, or podcasts available on the Zune Marketplace, although a last-minute deal with Universal does bulk up the offerings somewhat). Furthermore, Zune's one potential "iPod-killing" feature -- music sharing over WiFi -- is judged to be a complete dud; instead of truly helping the consumer discover new music, Pogue opines that "you can't shake the feeling that it's all just a big plug for Microsoft's music store." Mossberg goes on to knock the Marketplace's point system -- you can only buy points in $5 blocks -- and both gentlemen lament the dearth of accessories and the perceived "screw you" to all parties who have already invested in the PlaysForSure microcosm.

So, is there nothing positive to say about the ol' Zune? Of course not: the device gets high marks for its smooth syncing, polished GUI, intuitive navigation, ability to dock with an Xbox 360, and solid build quality. The problem is, these niceties don't outweigh the missing or frustrating features -- so although it may be a decent player on its own merits, it falls far short in the inevitable comparisons to Apple's darling. Still, we're reminded once again that this is only the first generation of Microsoft's entry into portable audio hardware, and like so many other products from Redmond, it promises to only get better with time.

Read- Pogue
Read- Mossberg

[Alex C @ Nov 9th 2006 4:34PM]

A lot of you still don't get it! We are all, to varying extents, and myself included, geeks! The majority of the people buying iPods have never heard of engadget, putting Linux on an iPod/Zune, or even of Linux itself, along with many other things. It doesn't matter how you try and twist the facts, but the people buying iPods are satisfied with their iPods. They like the fact that it is small, easy to use, and quite stylish. The fact that the Zune is bigger than the iPod is perhaps it's biggest short-coming of all, and not that it's wifi isn't satisfactory or it has a restrictive DRM.

The fact that Microsoft doesn't even have a strategy for bringing the Zune to market in Europe yet just shows how uncommitted they are to their own product. I don't know how strong the ad campaign in the US is, but if i didn't read these sites i would hardly know it existed.

Microsoft here is, on the whole, only going to appeal to exactly the same market that buys its Xboxs. All my non-engadget reading non-power-user friends all use Playstation 2s, haven't heard of iRiver, and haven't the vaguest interest in an Xbox 360.

[Sergio @ Nov 9th 2006 11:00PM]

Damn kids

[Gamerdude @ Nov 10th 2006 12:55AM]

Do you not realize sarcasm when you read it?

[cire @ Nov 9th 2006 2:47PM]

I think I will wait till the 3rd or 4th gen, if it makes it that far. Sorry MS I am sticking with my Ipod for now. I love my pod casts too much too...lol

[Jonathan Allen @ Nov 9th 2006 2:51PM]

Yes, this is Microsoft's first generation product, but 2006 is certainly not towards of the beginning of portable digital music. The iPod certainly wasn't the first mp3 player, but it became a powerhouse because of it's user interface and superior syncing with iTunes (not to mention one of the must successful marketing campaigns of all time).
Now to the Zune. By deciding to enter this market, they had to decide to bring something new to the table. They decided on wifi. A great idea! But sharing music only? A poor choice, in my opinion. I think that this machine will be worth the time and money once it is cracked and linux can be loaded on it. I hope then that the wifi is functional and someone can create some kind of useable browser (although I wonder how effective input would be).
Not having a new, revolutionary concept puts the Zune in the same category as the DAP of the day from China - just another player. The only difference is that is it brought to us by one of the world's largest corporations.

[YaddaYadda @ Nov 9th 2006 2:52PM]

Whoah, you mean 2 of the biggest Apple fanboys on the planet didn't like the Zune? Stop the presses!!!

[James @ Nov 9th 2006 2:57PM]

Ha! Well said.

[Padriac @ Nov 9th 2006 3:06PM]

Jonathan Allen nailed it. You can't be "just another player" to beat the iPod. Zune is just another player. The iPod has bested better DAPs than the Zune before.

The claims of "Zune's 1st gen, it will improve" hold no water. As if the iPod is just going to sit there doing nothing. Zune 2.0 won't be going up against iPod 5.0 (or 5.5... whatever). It will be going up against iPod 6.0.

[The Grand Master @ Nov 9th 2006 3:17PM]

You really hit the nail on the head with the thing people keep missing, yes it is a first generation product, and it probably will get better over time. That doesn't mean that the opposition are going to freeze in their steps so that the Zune can leap ahead in years to come!

Apple, Creative,Sandisk and co. will all be working on new players just like Microsoft will, and they will add new features like MS will. The biggest problem is, that MS is leaping into an incredibly busy market, with no real killer feature. Despite what geeks think of your average consumer, they will read reviews, and if all they can say is, 'yeah, its quite good, nice screen, but the battery life is crap and the WiFi is a dud,' then the chances are they aren't gonna buy it!

[GSP @ Nov 9th 2006 3:12PM]

Yeah, this is the First Generation Zune ... but Apple isn't exactly standing still. Given Apple's lead and experience AND as long as Apple keeps raising the bar, its difficult to see Zune catching up. M$ will sell a bunch of Zunes but they're destined to be a distant #2. I have to wonder if there isn't a bunch of corporate ego involved in all this.

[tekdroid @ Nov 9th 2006 3:14PM]

all the while, products from 'lesser' companies offering us so much more - without Digital Rights Restrictions - are virtually ignored.

Oh but Zune has heavily-restricted Wi-Fi to share tracks with my non-friends! I must buy it.

It also offers a store! I *always* buy my tracks online in lossy, horrid proprietary formats restricting me to the manufacturer's software and operating system.

[dunk @ Nov 9th 2006 3:20PM]

i was never pulling for the zune to fail, like some apple fan boys, until today's news about the universal sin tax. i felt competition was great and a legitimate threat to the ipod was nothing but good for the industry.

with the revelation of the universal "sin tax", i now hope zune fails as miserably as the previous attempts by ipod killers. a message needs to be sent to the scumbag music industry that we are not criminals, we do not steal music and we will not tolerate paying a fee that assumes we are.

[Javaflash @ Nov 9th 2006 3:16PM]

Another negative point from Mossberg...

... Zune's screen performs worse, looks inferior.

[Signal Loss @ Nov 9th 2006 3:20PM]

There is one problem with these reviews and prognostications on the zune vs the ipod; its all very myopic....

[Karl Viklund @ Nov 9th 2006 3:21PM]

There is no Zune experience...

[Rob @ Nov 9th 2006 3:22PM]

The worst part about the 3 day 3 play rule is that, even if you created the content, even if you want it to be shared, for free. You can't tell the Zune to behave any differently. The Pogue review says it best, "And then three days later, just when buzz about your band is beginning to build, your songs disappear from everyone�s Zunes, making you look like an idiot."

[Jason @ Nov 9th 2006 3:24PM]

What has the ipod really added since Gen 1 though?? Oh yeah a color screen and video...

Ill pick up simply because its an actual market competitor to the ipod, and I can't stand that the ipod dictates the market.

Then when it gets opened up by the community at large to do what it is actually capable of, Ill put it to good use. Sorta like the xbox. Funny to see MS as the underdog, but at least they have given some serious competition in markets that really needed it to progress.

[_man1c_ @ Nov 9th 2006 3:33PM]

well in Zunes defense others have made better mp3 than it and yet to truly sell the way they should against the juggernaught that is the Ipod. Iriver in my opinion is right up there with them yet doesnt receive the sells like Apple does. MS doesnt neccessarily have to beat Apple in terms of features and such. they just have to match them right now then eventually let their product mature into its own. then the time will come where the Zune can be the ipod killer MS wants it to be..

[Jeff @ Nov 9th 2006 3:35PM]

"Still, we're reminded once again that this is only the first generation of Microsoft's entry into portable audio hardware,"

You mean, except for the MS reference designs that MS provided to PlaysForSure partners years ago?

I'd call this at least the second generation. And those designs were updated several times, so really it's beyond that. If MS can't get things right by now, they never will. It's kinda like Windows - whether or not the Zune actually sells, it will never, ever be superior on merits to its competitors. MS just isn't capable of it.

These reviews are just the start. What exactly were some of you expecting, anyway? This is going down just as a lot of us predicted. And I do mean "going down".

[ELQ @ Nov 9th 2006 3:36PM]

I have blogged about the negative points of Zune (bullet points) here:
http://eugenia.blogsome.com/2006/11/03/regarding-the-zune/

[netboolie @ Nov 9th 2006 3:41PM]

Who really cares what Pogue and Mossberg have to say about the Zune, it's up to the public to decide. Give the Zune a chance....

[henry @ Nov 9th 2006 3:51PM]

Surprise surprise, like those two crApple fanboys are going to say anything good on anything non-iPod. C'mon!

[Pedro @ Nov 9th 2006 4:09PM]

The real problem with the Zune is that in trying to make it cool with the interface (lots of album artwork/animation), it neglected its impact on battery life which is something that you can notice engadget as well as other reviews left off because the reality is... the battery life is horrid if you do nothing but just play a playlist without doing anything.

[az_runner @ Nov 9th 2006 3:58PM]

I think if they really wanted to truly get a foothold in the iPod world that we now live in, they can't make just another DAP with an additional feature. They have to take the industry somewhere else. For instance why didn't they create the zPhone and beat Apple to the punch. M$ already has some experience in both DAP technology and mobile technology. Take this knowledge and create a new platform, store, network, etc. that Apple is known to be entering. It's not rocket science here. Even Bill Gates has said that the DAP is going to converge with the mobile market and yet they still come out with a DAP. It makes no sense.

I give this thing two years like the MSN Music store, before they pull the plug and come out with a new brand/product that will compete directly with the Apple world, which will miserably fail and come down two years after that.

Nobody ever succeeds competing directly with the big dog in a specific industry, you have to have the direction of the industry to do it. Just like Apple did when competing with Sony.

[Illuminated One @ Nov 9th 2006 3:59PM]

iPod suck, Zune sucks, iRiver pwnzzzz!!!!!

[Dogtown @ Nov 9th 2006 6:37PM]

The only problem with the iPod for music playing is the DRM. Zune does not resolve the DRM issue. Price is the same, so there is no concrete reason for established iPod owners to switch. Also, most iPod owners feel by staying with Apple, they can upgrade to newer iPods with minimal effort. The only intriguing part of the Zune is the integration with XBox360 and/or Windows. However, baring any new cool features, Zune is not enough to stop the momentum that Apple has created. Why am I going to wireless send an encrypted track to my friend, when I'll let him copy all the music for free. Microsoft applied no leverage to RIAA, and appears to have basically built their strategy to appease Content Copyright holders. Another device will come along without the restrictions, and that has a better chance to topple Apple.

[Otsego @ Nov 9th 2006 4:06PM]

Songs cost 79 points.

79 points = .99

WTF??

[Runway @ Nov 9th 2006 4:08PM]

Hmmmm.....MSFT has been here before:

Zune is to XBOX as iPod is to PS2?

They have shown that they can muscle their way into a market, what makes people think that they cannot do it again?

[en @ Nov 9th 2006 4:10PM]

it was a well-natured try. I don't think you people realize, the Zune failing is not a good thing. Competition leads to innovation. If Microsoft comes out with a great product to rival the iPod, Apple is forced to make more options within better products at cheaper costs to the consumer.

Do you think Sony would take the PS3 and online play so seriously if the Xbox had never stretched the limits? We'd still be playing mediocre games if the xbox never made a foothold.

So, I'll stick to my iPod and hope Apple or Microsoft, or whoever, produces something worth another $250-300.

[Brian @ Nov 9th 2006 4:19PM]

As much as Apple has proven that while it's great at achieving success, it still has no idea how to sustain that success. They always fall on their face at some point, and I imagine that will happen again, at some point, with the iPod.

MS did what was thought impossible with the Xbox. No reason to think they can't take on another industry leader without success (hope i got those negatives right).

By the way, I have a 5g iPod and I love it. However, it's by no means perfect and has just as many, if not more flaws, than have been pointed out on the Zune. Sometimes we forget that.

[Lee Gibson @ Nov 9th 2006 4:49PM]

"yes it is a first generation product, and it probably will get better over time. "

I don't understand. If I take leave of my senses and buy one of these things, it's not going to get better over time. Sure, there might be a software buff here or there, but the object I buy better be worth what I spend. What other objects in the future might be worth is irrelevant.

[Lee Gibson @ Nov 9th 2006 4:34PM]

Ah. So you're what they call a "sucker".

Running against the herd means you're still controlled by the herd.

[Jebby Deringer @ Nov 9th 2006 4:37PM]

The iPod has it's faults but it's still the best overall player. It has the most 3rd party support. The iPod has stayed pretty similar through it's life but the control interface has been improved, battery life has improved a lot (they are always working on it) video support, more storage, better gaming on the latest revision and colour. They are still selling millions of these things so there is little reason to change. Some more features would be nice of course and iTunes can still be improved a lot (Still better than Sony's Sonicstage). It annoys me though when people hate the iPod just because it's the market leader. Some people have a twisted sense that if they buy a popular product they are a follower. Grow up. If the iPod is not your thing that's fine. If you can't be 'different' and 'stand out' based on your own merits rather than your music player you have bigger problems.

[John Doe @ Nov 9th 2006 4:49PM]

See the thing is MS has the ability to make pretty good products. It just takes at minimum 3 revisions. Lets also be fair. iPod version 1 with the version of iTunes at the time wasn't exactly great.

[BandB @ Nov 9th 2006 7:23PM]

Moss and Pogue reach a large audience including investors and mainstream media, thats why their crit has wieght unlike our comments.


Happy to be a Apple Fanboy...it's a nice place to live

[Di @ Nov 9th 2006 4:52PM]

This will sound vain, but the Zune is ugly. Someone else already stated that people like the ipod because it is stylish and small. Techno geeks are going to compare features and choose based on what has the features, but the general public chooses the device that looks nicest and is easy to carry around. And besides that, people don't want to have to switch platforms. Isn't that how MS beat down Mac? they aren't compatible and MS got the jump on it. I don't think MS is going to win this time. you win some, you lose some.

[User1 @ Nov 9th 2006 4:54PM]

This is a Microsoft product, so it's practically open source - this thing is going to be hacked faster than Chef Tony can cut a tomato with a Mircle Blade. Resulting in a large brown somewhat usefull device with wifi.

[pedro @ Nov 9th 2006 5:08PM]

Agreed. The iPod/iTunes weren't exactly great but it didn't need to be, why? Because it was innovation, there was nothing in the market like it. Truth be told, players today are not that innovative, the iPod no longer implements features before other players... Except for smaller things like text based search..., etc....

[Jeff Lewis @ Nov 9th 2006 5:07PM]

Ok.. first off - Mossberg and Pogue are two of the biggest Apple cheerleaders on the planet. Why is anyone surprised they dumped on the Zune.

Second - they're complaining about the dearth of accessories for a device which hasn't even shipped yet? Come ON.

From what they're saying - it works about as well as an iPod, although differently. It has a few things it does better, a few things it does worse.

I'm gonna be blunt - who cares about PlayForSure - why should I, as a consumer, care if Microsoft's shafting other media players - if I don't own one. And they aren't - PlaysForSure still works on those devices. For them, they have Urge.

The DRM issues for beaming is also over hyped. Let's not forget - the iPod has NO file beaming ability at all. And you can't share your DRMed music on someone else's iPod other than burning it to a CD and reripping (or using something like DVD Jon's DRM breaker). That solution still exists for Zune too.

What's added is the ability to share a track or do DJing without any of that hassle. So sorry - even if it's not perfect and even if the did stupid things like the 3x3 restriction on non-DRMed files - it's STILL better than what the iPod offers.

And it has an FM tuner with station/track info display. Another thing the iPod can't do without an addon.

That brings us down to size - and they forget - the screen is 50% larger than the iPod's. How exactly do you make a bigger screen without making the device a little larger - and it IS a little larger.

Sorry, these 'reviews' are coming not from an 'is this a good or bad device' POV, but from an 'is this an iPod or not' POV.

And we KNOW it's not an iPod.

It might surprise Mossberg and Pogue (and many of the iPod/Apple groupies here) - but for some of us, that feature ALONE makes the Zune desirable.

[Hipster Union @ Nov 9th 2006 5:17PM]

From Mossberg: "The [Zune] feels rushed and incomplete. It is 60% larger and 17% heavier than the comparable iPod."

You could say that. You could also say that it's .2" thicker and .8 oz. heavier than the comparable I-pod. But that would be less partial and more practical.

[Jeff Lewis @ Nov 9th 2006 5:18PM]

One other thought - people who think the Zune is 'just another DAP' are missing something, something very important: it has Microsoft's massive weight behind it.

Microsoft can put out a product it KNOWS can't compete and just sit there dumping money into it until it finally gets a market hold.

Look at Window Mobile. Palm all but owned the PDA market. WinCE 1.0 was hideous. But MS kept improving it over time and just kept on going until finally it started to get market share - and then Palm stumbled and now Windows Mobile is in the lead.

Windows Mobile Smartphone is slowly creeping up on Symbian based phone.

And then there's the XBox which is now a serious player in the game market (but not at the front yet).

The very fact that this is a product with the backing of the largest software company in the world, with a track record of slow and steady gain in market share in almost any market they choose to get into means that the Zune is a serious contender.

Will it beat the iPod? Probably not - unless Apple makes a serious mistake. Given that Jobs keeps making these grandiose statements like 'no one wants video on their music player' (why look - a video iPod - and a badly done one at that)... well - I suspect that's how the iPod will go down.

BTW, to all the people who argue Microsoft can't improve their products - I suggest you look at the entire package rather than at the bits you don't like - compare WinXP to say Windows 1.0 - go through the lineage and see the improvements and changes... If you're a developer - go from Visual Studio 4 through 2005 and see the enormous changes and improvements...

A blanket condemnation of Microsoft's products and improvement just shows an amazing ignorance and lack of interest to change that.

[J @ Nov 9th 2006 5:32PM]

There are HUGE improvements in MS products only because the original versions of the products were crap to begin with! There was no way to go but up.

Zune will fail and true "ipod killers" such as the Archos w/touchscreen & wifi will be overlooked by the masses either because they don't have an effective marketing machine or are still a bit too bulky than the lesser players.

[toddw @ Nov 9th 2006 5:40PM]

You guys crack me up but I agree with Jeff L's points. I'll wait to add my own until I set my new Zune next to my common, hard to see, isolated iPod for my own tests. In the mean time I'll just enjoy remembering these kinds of myopic comments around XBox, MediaCenter, Windows Mobile.... Love everything they do, NO, bet against Microsoft when momentum is in their favor...not this guy.

[HD @ Nov 9th 2006 5:46PM]

Mossberg is a Mac fanboy, he even admit it, how can we trust him reviewing Microsoft's product without bias?

[Warren @ Nov 9th 2006 6:14PM]

I am curious about people's opinion on one theme... Do you think the fact that Apple announces a product (say a new iPod/new movies service) and makes its availability quasi-immmediate is a factor that drives sales, as people don't really have time to break the new device down?

I mean.. we've been hearing Zune this/Zune that for months... when it comes out, people will be scarred by negative reviews/fanboyism/prejudices, which they would have no time to form, say, when buying a new iPod... The Zune sort of loses out on its Wow factor, no?

Anybody agree?

[Bloobie @ Nov 9th 2006 11:11PM]

Runway said:
Hmmmm.....MSFT has been here before:

Zune is to XBOX as iPod is to PS2?

They have shown that they can muscle their way into a market, what makes people think that they cannot do it again?
-----

The one major difference here is the type of market you are dealing with. While the current DAP market is very, very saturated with hundreds of players from dozens of manufacturers, the game machine market never was. Who else was out there competing with Sony's PS2? I can only think of Nintendo. Same goes for the PDA market. Palm was alone for quite some time before Microsoft came along with their many revisions of Windows CE/Mobile/etc.

[Brian @ Nov 9th 2006 6:29PM]

I'm just not getting it. So there's a fairly large population of commenters on this site who are interested in the Zune specifically because it's not an iPod.

Why is that, exactly?

You don't seem to care about the features, the usability, the supporting software, etc. You only seem to care that it's not an iPod.

What is it about the iPod that you hate so much? Is it really that you just hate anything that's super-popular, no matter whether it's better or not?

[Chris @ Nov 9th 2006 6:36PM]

It hasn't been released yet kiddies, so lets all just wait and see what its like at release.

[Gonzalo @ Nov 9th 2006 7:45PM]

These guys seem like apple fanboys, but I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that I'll wait for a review from engadget.

[nikster @ Nov 9th 2006 8:50PM]

I think a much better question would be: How does the Zune stack up to the Sansa. Sansa has given the iPod a run for its money with nice features and a low profile - in other words, by trying to make a good product rather than trying to "kill" the iPod. Such a comparison would also remove Apple fanbois/haters from the picture.

Does Zune beat Sansa? Judging from the reviews so far: No.